![]() | This template was considered for deletion on 6 November 2021. The result of the discussion was "no consensus". |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lebanese insurgency detailed map template. |
|
![]() | WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS The article Template:Lebanese insurgency detailed map, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.
|
![]() | Lebanon Template‑class Mid‑importance | |||||||||
|
New map project for Lebanon
Adding the main cities and correcting positions. Hanibal911 ( talk) 05:59, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
"Syrian opposition" fighting in Tripoly. Are you f*cking serious ? They are part of Jaish Haq al kund, mainly Al Nusra and ISIL supporters, I have no idea what do they have in common with the opposition in Syra or FSA, SMC whatever ... I'd suggest rename it to "Islamists", in that way you don't insult them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.175.75.56 ( talk) 20:50, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Done accomplished. Alhanuty ( talk) 03:57, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
@ Alhanuty and Hanibal911: Can we change this map to use a markings color scheme compatible with that of Module:Syrian Civil War detailed map and Module:Iraqi insurgency detailed map, so that it can be displayed in combined form (sort of like Template:Syrian and Iraqi insurgency detailed map now) without being extremely confusing? Jackmcbarn ( talk) 02:30, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
@ Alhanuty, Hanibal911, Jackmcbarn, and John Smith the Gamer: i changed Al-Nusra to grey, so now it is more similar to the Syrian civil war map, but we have a problem with the government and Hezbollah colors. I can suggest to make Hezbollah red (same as Assad forces, allied with Hezbollah), while changing the government of Lebanon to something else (lime probably is not ideal, but better than current color). Ideas? GreyShark ( dibra) 06:47, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Hanibal911: - per WP:GF i implemented our discussion and changed Lebanon government control to blue color (usually utilized for tribal/unaffiliated forces in war maps), because yellow is universally utilized for Kurdish forces in Syria and Iraq, and it interferes at Template:Syrian, Iraqi and Lebanon Conflicts detailed map. GreyShark ( dibra) 16:59, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
@ Hanibal911, Alhanuty, Jackmcbarn, and John Smith the Gamer: The edit by user:LightandDark2000 [1] changed the colors back, despite the above agreement. Thus, basically making the Lebanese government and Syrian government forces the same color, while making Hezbollah - a staunch ally of Baathist Syria, into blue. Obviously it creates a complete incoherence with the combined regional war interactive map Template:Syrian, Iraqi and Lebanon Conflicts detailed map, and the regional spillover map, which is based on it (right). user:LightandDark2000 mentioned that "Red is more synonymous with the legitimate governments in the Middle East conflicts", but apparently i don't find any such agreement on color utilization in wikipedia. Is there such an agreement between editors, or it is just an editor's personal thought? GreyShark ( dibra) 07:39, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
@ 햄방이, Magog the Ogre, Lindi29, 8fra0, MrPenguin20, and 3bdulelah: - also called for remarks. GreyShark ( dibra) 16:22, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
In addition user:Banak expressed an opinion about why the red color is used for governments, but it is not clear whether he supports this approach (please clarify). It seems hence that the blue color for Hezbollah clearly has no significant support (1 person) and neither yellow or green (1 person); red or orange is widely more preferred (4 out of 6 users support). In case of the Lebanese gov-t, a certain majority supports the blue (4 out of 6 users), with a notable opposition supporting the red (2 out of 6). The outcome hence should probably make Hezbollah orange, while finding a compromise on the color of the Lebanese gov-t. GreyShark ( dibra) 12:18, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
The proposed changes are much too complicated. As discussed on some other talk pages, the colors currently in use follow a set pattern that we have been using for some time. Lebanon is light orange because it is the closest (comfortable) color to red that is not used by another of the other governments; by the way, official governments are symbolized with the red color for city/town control. As for Hezbollah, the reason why it's blue is because it is the only remaining color option out there that also has a somewhat wide range of contested icons and base icons. If some of the other colors had as many options available, I could go for a color change eventually, but since some many colors have already been used up (red colors are for governments only, and purple is for truce zones, so that's out of the question), I think that we should keep the current colors for the time being. I could continue trying to tweak the shading for Lebanon, but unless some serious work is done for more color icons to be available, there's not really much that can be done for Hezbollah. LightandDark2000 ( talk) 23:00, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Hope there would be a solution for this important issue. GreyShark ( dibra) 06:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
@ Hanibal911, Greyshark09, John Smith the Gamer, Alhanuty, Jackmcbarn, LightandDark2000, 햄방이, Lindi29, 8fra0, MrPenguin20, Tgoll774, and 3bdulelah: Could someone please provide a reliable source that show the Syrian government controls extensive swaths of Lebanon, including Beirut? If this ever was the case, I am skeptical that it is still the case. Magog the Ogre ( t • c) 21:12, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
It seems some weird to list Dahieh and Hermel as "Hezbollah-held" areas not Lebanese... As lebanese myself, the government have civil and security control in every lebanese city and town. Each city/town have it's local public school, muncipality, local police ... even Hermel and Dahiya... The terrorists mainly control some areas on near the lebanese-syrian borders, they don't control any villages or towns. Hezbollah exist in many areas but "undercovered" while most of the authority control is in the hands of the lebanese security forces.
I'd like to suggest if the Lebanese Government and other lebanese armed groups fighting ISIS and Al Nusra to have the same color for the reason i stated above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.42.146.109 ( talk) 19:00, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Location_dot_orange.svg I think orange would be an appropriate color, as Hezbollah and Lebanon Government are both opposed to Sunni Al-Qaeda/Islamic State militants, but are not quite the same. Pbfreespace3 ( talk) 20:58, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
This map should be added to the map with Iraq and Syria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1Trevorr ( talk • contribs) 16:09, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Al-Manar is a pro-Hezbollah source, so can it be used to show Hezbollah advance in this situation? Did the claimed advance actually occur, or was it exaggerated? Should we change those towns to Hezbollah control? Pbfreespace3 ( talk) 21:00, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
There is a source that says that Hezbollah controll those settlements in contrast to the Lebanese government? -- Bolter21 ( talk to me) 18:04, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
Three things here: 1) In how far is a map a separate Wikipedia article? 2) Why does the 'Talk' section nowhere offer a link back to the actual article?' 3) History of this article: I'm pretty darn certain that just a few minutes ago, this map was part of an article on territorial gains of the Syrian army at the back of a general 'spillover' of the war in Syria into Lebanon.' The former article was quite odd imo, simply by painting a picture which was incorrect (afaik). Probably good that the article has vanished, however where can I trace back the exact change history?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.56.168.107 ( talk) 03:16, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
[4] [5] Clearly, IS have seized a number of places under Nusra control and are contesting others, but these are not marked on our map. There are other places unspecified in the article that are contested, and we may or may not have to do some educated guesswork to find out what those places are named on wikimapia. Following finding out what territory has changed hands, we will have to add it to the map. Is everyone ok with some estimated guesswork, in these exceptional circumstances, being used on this map? We will reference articles showing advances, but they may specify areas containing place names rather than places themselves, and it is there in which our estimations, rather than reports, will lie. PutItOnAMap ( talk) 20:19, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Well, you know, rare are the sources of the Middle East wars that mention the Lebanese situation... The news barely mention Lebanon neither Hezbollah. So, I was studying the situation to understand a little more. In the process, I talked with two lebanese guys by chat that explain me that Hezbollah not only occupied the blue ares of this map, but also the provinces of the South Governorate and Nabatieh Governorate, protecting the border with Israel. Someone have some news line to prove this? If yes, I think we should analyse insert this on the map. A simple Wikipedian ( said and did) 03:54, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
A related discussion concerning colors utilizing in this map is going on at template talk:Middle East conflicts detailed map#Hezbollah color 2. GreyShark ( dibra) 19:15, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This template was considered for deletion on 6 November 2021. The result of the discussion was "no consensus". |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lebanese insurgency detailed map template. |
|
![]() | WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS The article Template:Lebanese insurgency detailed map, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.
|
![]() | Lebanon Template‑class Mid‑importance | |||||||||
|
New map project for Lebanon
Adding the main cities and correcting positions. Hanibal911 ( talk) 05:59, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
"Syrian opposition" fighting in Tripoly. Are you f*cking serious ? They are part of Jaish Haq al kund, mainly Al Nusra and ISIL supporters, I have no idea what do they have in common with the opposition in Syra or FSA, SMC whatever ... I'd suggest rename it to "Islamists", in that way you don't insult them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.175.75.56 ( talk) 20:50, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Done accomplished. Alhanuty ( talk) 03:57, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
@ Alhanuty and Hanibal911: Can we change this map to use a markings color scheme compatible with that of Module:Syrian Civil War detailed map and Module:Iraqi insurgency detailed map, so that it can be displayed in combined form (sort of like Template:Syrian and Iraqi insurgency detailed map now) without being extremely confusing? Jackmcbarn ( talk) 02:30, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
@ Alhanuty, Hanibal911, Jackmcbarn, and John Smith the Gamer: i changed Al-Nusra to grey, so now it is more similar to the Syrian civil war map, but we have a problem with the government and Hezbollah colors. I can suggest to make Hezbollah red (same as Assad forces, allied with Hezbollah), while changing the government of Lebanon to something else (lime probably is not ideal, but better than current color). Ideas? GreyShark ( dibra) 06:47, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Hanibal911: - per WP:GF i implemented our discussion and changed Lebanon government control to blue color (usually utilized for tribal/unaffiliated forces in war maps), because yellow is universally utilized for Kurdish forces in Syria and Iraq, and it interferes at Template:Syrian, Iraqi and Lebanon Conflicts detailed map. GreyShark ( dibra) 16:59, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
@ Hanibal911, Alhanuty, Jackmcbarn, and John Smith the Gamer: The edit by user:LightandDark2000 [1] changed the colors back, despite the above agreement. Thus, basically making the Lebanese government and Syrian government forces the same color, while making Hezbollah - a staunch ally of Baathist Syria, into blue. Obviously it creates a complete incoherence with the combined regional war interactive map Template:Syrian, Iraqi and Lebanon Conflicts detailed map, and the regional spillover map, which is based on it (right). user:LightandDark2000 mentioned that "Red is more synonymous with the legitimate governments in the Middle East conflicts", but apparently i don't find any such agreement on color utilization in wikipedia. Is there such an agreement between editors, or it is just an editor's personal thought? GreyShark ( dibra) 07:39, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
@ 햄방이, Magog the Ogre, Lindi29, 8fra0, MrPenguin20, and 3bdulelah: - also called for remarks. GreyShark ( dibra) 16:22, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
In addition user:Banak expressed an opinion about why the red color is used for governments, but it is not clear whether he supports this approach (please clarify). It seems hence that the blue color for Hezbollah clearly has no significant support (1 person) and neither yellow or green (1 person); red or orange is widely more preferred (4 out of 6 users support). In case of the Lebanese gov-t, a certain majority supports the blue (4 out of 6 users), with a notable opposition supporting the red (2 out of 6). The outcome hence should probably make Hezbollah orange, while finding a compromise on the color of the Lebanese gov-t. GreyShark ( dibra) 12:18, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
The proposed changes are much too complicated. As discussed on some other talk pages, the colors currently in use follow a set pattern that we have been using for some time. Lebanon is light orange because it is the closest (comfortable) color to red that is not used by another of the other governments; by the way, official governments are symbolized with the red color for city/town control. As for Hezbollah, the reason why it's blue is because it is the only remaining color option out there that also has a somewhat wide range of contested icons and base icons. If some of the other colors had as many options available, I could go for a color change eventually, but since some many colors have already been used up (red colors are for governments only, and purple is for truce zones, so that's out of the question), I think that we should keep the current colors for the time being. I could continue trying to tweak the shading for Lebanon, but unless some serious work is done for more color icons to be available, there's not really much that can be done for Hezbollah. LightandDark2000 ( talk) 23:00, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Hope there would be a solution for this important issue. GreyShark ( dibra) 06:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
@ Hanibal911, Greyshark09, John Smith the Gamer, Alhanuty, Jackmcbarn, LightandDark2000, 햄방이, Lindi29, 8fra0, MrPenguin20, Tgoll774, and 3bdulelah: Could someone please provide a reliable source that show the Syrian government controls extensive swaths of Lebanon, including Beirut? If this ever was the case, I am skeptical that it is still the case. Magog the Ogre ( t • c) 21:12, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
It seems some weird to list Dahieh and Hermel as "Hezbollah-held" areas not Lebanese... As lebanese myself, the government have civil and security control in every lebanese city and town. Each city/town have it's local public school, muncipality, local police ... even Hermel and Dahiya... The terrorists mainly control some areas on near the lebanese-syrian borders, they don't control any villages or towns. Hezbollah exist in many areas but "undercovered" while most of the authority control is in the hands of the lebanese security forces.
I'd like to suggest if the Lebanese Government and other lebanese armed groups fighting ISIS and Al Nusra to have the same color for the reason i stated above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.42.146.109 ( talk) 19:00, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Location_dot_orange.svg I think orange would be an appropriate color, as Hezbollah and Lebanon Government are both opposed to Sunni Al-Qaeda/Islamic State militants, but are not quite the same. Pbfreespace3 ( talk) 20:58, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
This map should be added to the map with Iraq and Syria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1Trevorr ( talk • contribs) 16:09, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Al-Manar is a pro-Hezbollah source, so can it be used to show Hezbollah advance in this situation? Did the claimed advance actually occur, or was it exaggerated? Should we change those towns to Hezbollah control? Pbfreespace3 ( talk) 21:00, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
There is a source that says that Hezbollah controll those settlements in contrast to the Lebanese government? -- Bolter21 ( talk to me) 18:04, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
Three things here: 1) In how far is a map a separate Wikipedia article? 2) Why does the 'Talk' section nowhere offer a link back to the actual article?' 3) History of this article: I'm pretty darn certain that just a few minutes ago, this map was part of an article on territorial gains of the Syrian army at the back of a general 'spillover' of the war in Syria into Lebanon.' The former article was quite odd imo, simply by painting a picture which was incorrect (afaik). Probably good that the article has vanished, however where can I trace back the exact change history?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.56.168.107 ( talk) 03:16, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
[4] [5] Clearly, IS have seized a number of places under Nusra control and are contesting others, but these are not marked on our map. There are other places unspecified in the article that are contested, and we may or may not have to do some educated guesswork to find out what those places are named on wikimapia. Following finding out what territory has changed hands, we will have to add it to the map. Is everyone ok with some estimated guesswork, in these exceptional circumstances, being used on this map? We will reference articles showing advances, but they may specify areas containing place names rather than places themselves, and it is there in which our estimations, rather than reports, will lie. PutItOnAMap ( talk) 20:19, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Well, you know, rare are the sources of the Middle East wars that mention the Lebanese situation... The news barely mention Lebanon neither Hezbollah. So, I was studying the situation to understand a little more. In the process, I talked with two lebanese guys by chat that explain me that Hezbollah not only occupied the blue ares of this map, but also the provinces of the South Governorate and Nabatieh Governorate, protecting the border with Israel. Someone have some news line to prove this? If yes, I think we should analyse insert this on the map. A simple Wikipedian ( said and did) 03:54, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
A related discussion concerning colors utilizing in this map is going on at template talk:Middle East conflicts detailed map#Hezbollah color 2. GreyShark ( dibra) 19:15, 27 August 2016 (UTC)