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Umm... other Baltic countries list presidents. Why is this a list of so-called "leaders" including the U.S.S.R.? I'm sorry, but this needs to become a List of Presidents. I'll wait a bit for the flumoxing to settle before I correct. If someone wants to make an ersatz leaders of Latvia template they are free to use this, but this is not a list of presidents as it stands. And no, it doesn't need to be renamed to something else, it just needs fixing. — PētersV ( talk) 22:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Done. Template:Latvian SSR First Secretaries created and Presidents template is reserved for presidents. As always, please do not revert without prior discussion. I updated the template references for the two First Secretaries for whom there are articles. — PētersV ( talk) 23:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
If we're going to have acting presidents, then the list needs to be a lot longer. For example, Kalniņš alone was acting president on three occasions during the first period of independence (prior to occupation).
On the other hand, if we're not going to have acting presidents, then Kalniņš, Rancāns, and Gorbunovs have to go. BTW, interesting talk by Gorbunovs commemorating Rancāns
here, in Latvian. Of course, it's interesting that Gorbunovs describes individuals who happen to be in the same position as himself as "acting president."
As I understand it, "acting" (directly post-Ulmanis) was a declaration of the Latvian Central Committee. The Nazis arrested Kalniņš, upon which Tepfers succeeded him (so wouldn't he be the next "acting" president?). Looks to be a decent article on the LCP in LV WP
here.
The whole acting thing just seems a bit misplaced and misdirected, especially as a formal government in exile (or under occupation) was never organized or declared. —
PētersV (
talk)
17:50, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Set the list to who Latvia says its presidents were. I left the three extra commented for now, I thought I'd let the template sit for a couple of days. Similarly, will comment out template on Gorbunovs' page. — PētersV ( talk) 14:25, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Maybe we should have it like this:
Čakste | Zemgals | Kviesis | K. Ulmanis | G. Ulmanis | Vīķe-Freiberga | Zatlers |
there is no actual need to have two groups anymore, the dates are still incorrect ( Čakste was elected in 1922 not '18, same with Ulmanis)--~~ Xil... sist! 16:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I created this template, and I don't have a problem with the recent changes. However, a small point: part 2 says "1991-" but Ulmanis took office in 1993. If this is a problem, I suggest three possible fixes:
Xil raises a good point: who was head of state until Čakste formally took office in 1922? But, to focus on the early '90s issue: we are of course here to record, not create reality, but I would press for Gorbunovs' inclusion in a footnote because:
Čakste | Zemgals | Kviesis | K. Ulmanis | interrupted by Latvian SSR (1940-1991) | G. Ulmanis | Vīķe-Freiberga | Zatlers |
--~~ Xil... sist! 16:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't want to say it irks me to see the LSSR between the "Ulmanis"es (that would be construed as personal POV), so I won't. Rather, if we insert something of that form, it makes the LSSR out to be an official Latvian entity; it should be "interrupted by Soviet annexation (1940-1991)" (and have that link to the now renamed Latvian Soviet Socialist Republic). I believe this would be sufficiently NPOV and avoid confusing readers implying there was something "Latvian" in power during the Soviet era.
Čakste | Zemgals | Kviesis | K. Ulmanis | interrupted by Soviet annexation (1940-1991) | G. Ulmanis | Vīķe-Freiberga | Zatlers |
— PētersV ( talk) 21:29, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Čakste | Zemgals | Kviesis | K. Ulmanis | interrupted by illegal Soviet annexation (1940-1991) | G. Ulmanis | Vīķe-Freiberga | Zatlers |
— PētersV ( talk) 01:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Gentlemen, I've said my piece, and if you still object to the footnote, I do not intend to press the matter further. (There's also the issue of 1918-22...) It's your country and you're best suited to interpreting her history, so with that said, I bow out of this rather interesting (and quite civil) discussion. Biruitorul ( talk) 03:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Just to make the record straight – the concept of president-elect does not exist in Latvia, ergo, the upcoming president is only president when sworn in. Do not blindly transfer American traditions to other nations where heads of state also happen to be entitled presidents. Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 18:34, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
I put K. Ulmanis in italics since the Latvian version of the biographies of past presidents on the website of the Chancery of the President describes him as interim President ( Latvian: Prezidenta vietas izpildītājs, literally "the exectutive of the office of President"). They also list Rancāns and Kalniņš as post-WW2 interim presidents, but I don't wanna be the judge on this at the moment. Ivario ( talk) 23:11, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
Umm... other Baltic countries list presidents. Why is this a list of so-called "leaders" including the U.S.S.R.? I'm sorry, but this needs to become a List of Presidents. I'll wait a bit for the flumoxing to settle before I correct. If someone wants to make an ersatz leaders of Latvia template they are free to use this, but this is not a list of presidents as it stands. And no, it doesn't need to be renamed to something else, it just needs fixing. — PētersV ( talk) 22:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Done. Template:Latvian SSR First Secretaries created and Presidents template is reserved for presidents. As always, please do not revert without prior discussion. I updated the template references for the two First Secretaries for whom there are articles. — PētersV ( talk) 23:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
If we're going to have acting presidents, then the list needs to be a lot longer. For example, Kalniņš alone was acting president on three occasions during the first period of independence (prior to occupation).
On the other hand, if we're not going to have acting presidents, then Kalniņš, Rancāns, and Gorbunovs have to go. BTW, interesting talk by Gorbunovs commemorating Rancāns
here, in Latvian. Of course, it's interesting that Gorbunovs describes individuals who happen to be in the same position as himself as "acting president."
As I understand it, "acting" (directly post-Ulmanis) was a declaration of the Latvian Central Committee. The Nazis arrested Kalniņš, upon which Tepfers succeeded him (so wouldn't he be the next "acting" president?). Looks to be a decent article on the LCP in LV WP
here.
The whole acting thing just seems a bit misplaced and misdirected, especially as a formal government in exile (or under occupation) was never organized or declared. —
PētersV (
talk)
17:50, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Set the list to who Latvia says its presidents were. I left the three extra commented for now, I thought I'd let the template sit for a couple of days. Similarly, will comment out template on Gorbunovs' page. — PētersV ( talk) 14:25, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Maybe we should have it like this:
Čakste | Zemgals | Kviesis | K. Ulmanis | G. Ulmanis | Vīķe-Freiberga | Zatlers |
there is no actual need to have two groups anymore, the dates are still incorrect ( Čakste was elected in 1922 not '18, same with Ulmanis)--~~ Xil... sist! 16:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I created this template, and I don't have a problem with the recent changes. However, a small point: part 2 says "1991-" but Ulmanis took office in 1993. If this is a problem, I suggest three possible fixes:
Xil raises a good point: who was head of state until Čakste formally took office in 1922? But, to focus on the early '90s issue: we are of course here to record, not create reality, but I would press for Gorbunovs' inclusion in a footnote because:
Čakste | Zemgals | Kviesis | K. Ulmanis | interrupted by Latvian SSR (1940-1991) | G. Ulmanis | Vīķe-Freiberga | Zatlers |
--~~ Xil... sist! 16:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't want to say it irks me to see the LSSR between the "Ulmanis"es (that would be construed as personal POV), so I won't. Rather, if we insert something of that form, it makes the LSSR out to be an official Latvian entity; it should be "interrupted by Soviet annexation (1940-1991)" (and have that link to the now renamed Latvian Soviet Socialist Republic). I believe this would be sufficiently NPOV and avoid confusing readers implying there was something "Latvian" in power during the Soviet era.
Čakste | Zemgals | Kviesis | K. Ulmanis | interrupted by Soviet annexation (1940-1991) | G. Ulmanis | Vīķe-Freiberga | Zatlers |
— PētersV ( talk) 21:29, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Čakste | Zemgals | Kviesis | K. Ulmanis | interrupted by illegal Soviet annexation (1940-1991) | G. Ulmanis | Vīķe-Freiberga | Zatlers |
— PētersV ( talk) 01:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Gentlemen, I've said my piece, and if you still object to the footnote, I do not intend to press the matter further. (There's also the issue of 1918-22...) It's your country and you're best suited to interpreting her history, so with that said, I bow out of this rather interesting (and quite civil) discussion. Biruitorul ( talk) 03:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Just to make the record straight – the concept of president-elect does not exist in Latvia, ergo, the upcoming president is only president when sworn in. Do not blindly transfer American traditions to other nations where heads of state also happen to be entitled presidents. Talk/ ♥фĩłдωəß♥\ Work 18:34, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
I put K. Ulmanis in italics since the Latvian version of the biographies of past presidents on the website of the Chancery of the President describes him as interim President ( Latvian: Prezidenta vietas izpildītājs, literally "the exectutive of the office of President"). They also list Rancāns and Kalniņš as post-WW2 interim presidents, but I don't wanna be the judge on this at the moment. Ivario ( talk) 23:11, 15 April 2021 (UTC)