![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
A while ago there was discussion about formatting of the infobox that is used on so many ship articles; see
above and
WT:SHIPS archive 34. The discussion was initially about formatting the table that contains the various infobox ship templates, {{
Infobox ship begin}}
, {{
Infobox ship image}}
, {{
Infobox ship career}}
, {{
Infobox ship characteristics}}
, and even unrelated infoboxes like {{
Infobox NRHP}}
and {{
Infobox lighthouse}}
.
The original discussions were the result of a simple change to {{
Infobox ship begin}}
that added the code |+ {{PAGENAME}}
. That change simply copied the text of the article title into the table's caption field (|+
). There were complaints about formatting and about the way the change was made and then reverted. I'm hoping to avoid a lot of that.
Since that discussion, I have been adding properly formatted captions to many ship-article infoboxes because the of the accessibility argument. A recent spate of edits undoing that work has led me here.
Several of the complaints about the original were related to the somewhat mindless way the article's title was used as the caption: no formatting, no display options. I think that I have addressed those complaints with changes that I have made to {{
Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
.
In the past, {{Infobox ship begin}}
has not had any parameters. I have created a new parameter, |infobox caption=
, which is used to control the display of a table caption at the top of the infobox. The parameter usage is like this:
|infobox caption=
– When |infobox caption=
is empty or omitted, {{Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
does not display a table caption at the top of the infobox (compatibility mode).|infobox caption=yes
– When |infobox caption=
is assigned the value yes
, {{Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
copies the article title to the infobox table's caption field. If the article name is a proper ship's name (<prefix> <name> <disambiguator>) then the caption will get the proper ship-name formatting. The article title must begin with a known prefix – see {{
ship prefix}}
.|infobox caption=nodab
– When |infobox caption=
is assigned the value nodab
, {{Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
copies the article title up to the parenthetical disambiguator to the infobox table's caption field. The disambiguator is not included in the infobox table caption. The article title must begin with a known prefix.|infobox caption=caption
– When |infobox caption=
is assigned any other value, that value is copied to the infobox table's caption. Formatting is the responsibility of the editor.I have tested this with a variety of ship articles. If the article currently requires {{
italic title}}
, {{
italic title prefixed}}
, or {{DISPLAYTITLE}}
to correctly format the article title then those methods are still required. Because there is a modicum of standardization in the whay ship articles are named, it may be possible to extend this functionality at the least to ship class articles.
So, I think that this template answers the format and display control issues raised in the previous discussion; it answers, at least in part the accessibility issues as well.
Opinions? Questions? Comments?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 23:10, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
{{
Infobox ship begin}}
from {{
Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
, updated the template skeletons at
Template:Infobox ship begin/doc, and documented the new parameter at
Template:Infobox ship begin/Usage guide.Hi, looking at today's featured article USS Lexington (CV-2), I am puzzled by the field named "Struck". At first I thought it meant struck by a torpedo or air attack or something, but actually the date is six weeks after it sank, so that can't be right. I would like to suggest that the meaning of this word is explained somewhere. 86.160.213.213 ( talk) 01:45, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
{{
abbr}}
the documentation specifically states that the template is not a tool tip generator. <abbr>
has specific semantic meaning within html. A little bit of css in a span can produce similar effects without the need for the <abbr>
tag:<span title="Definition goes here" style="border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help">term to be defined</span>
→ term to be definedExactly, neither struck or stricken is an abbreviation so {{
abbr}}
shouldn't be used.
It would be nice if there were a way to have our cake and eat it too. I find that when editors include white space in their writings on a talk page, the writing is easier to understand. Not all talk-page writing is short terse comments. Sometimes editors go on at length on some topic. If editors are precluded from adding white space then we end up with a wall of text that is difficult to read so the writing doesn't get read.
We could all do as I have done here and wrap what we have to say in <p style="margin-left: 140px">...</p>
tags but it's much easier to to simply indent with colons. Perhaps some clever developer can find another prefix character that would take the place of the colon and apply appropriate markup that doesn't violate
WP:LISTGAP?
—
Trappist the monk (
talk)
19:53, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
Trappist the monk ( talk · contribs) made an undiscussed change to the ship infobox by adding infobox caption as a suggested parameter to the infobox headers. He's started to add it to a number of French warships and, frankly, it looks like crap. Furthermore it's redundant to the name of the ship and moves the infobox a little bit down the page. As our infoboxes are already long enough to get the occasional complaint that they're too long and dominate the page, that's not a good thing. I'll be reverting his changes to the articles that I've watchlisted, but I'll leave French cruiser Sully alone so people can see what it looks like with the caption.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 19:37, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
undiscussed changeis patently false.
One conversation in one place please.
On my talk page, Editor Sturmvogel 66 wrote, in part: I question the necessity or even the advisability of doing so as I believe that it does nothing to improve the article.
I think that you believe that because you can see it. Were you visually impaired, you might believe otherwise. The change to add a caption to the table that encloses the series of templates that make up a ship article infobox is relatively benign to those of us who are sighted. Yep, it pushes the infobox down a few pixels (on my monitor and
Sully, it moves the upper infobox boarder down until it's about in line with the top of the tall characters in the second line of lede text).
Adding the caption puts the ship infobox into compliance with MOS:INFOBOX. Here's the important bit:
{{PAGENAME}}
magic word) is usually fine. It should not contain a link. – (fourth bullet point under
Consistency between infoboxes)In this archive discussion, a couple of editors pointed out that the caption, and not the header, is the correct mechanism for allowing those who use screen readers to go directly to any of the tables in a page. And, the ship info box is nothing more than a table.
MOS:INFOBOX suggests using the article title for infobox captions. That idea was peremptorily dismissed for use on ship infoboxes. That got me to |infobox caption=
as part of {{
Infobox ship begin}}
with its several options. Now editors can add captions without knowing anything about wikitable syntax; editors are happy, MOS:INFOBOX is happy, screen reader users are happier, and the general reading public is oblivious.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 00:31, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Sully | |
---|---|
![]() Sister ship Gloire in 1913
| |
History | |
![]() | |
Namesake | Maximilien de Béthune, Duke of Sully |
Builder | Forges et Chantiers de la Méditerranée, La Seyne |
Laid down | 24 May 1899 |
Launched | 4 June 1901 |
Completed | June 1904 |
Fate | Ran aground, 7 February 1905 |
{{
infobox flag}}
has a structure similar to infobox ship. As infobox ship does, infobox flag begins and ends with table markup {| ... |}
, has caption markup |+
that displays either {{{name}}}
or defaults to {{PAGENAME}}
, and contains multiple subtemplates. See FA
Flag of Japan.{{
Infobox coin}}
like most infoboxes that use metatemplate {{
infobox}}
can display a caption and / or a header. See FA
Walking Liberty half dollar.|name=
is redundant when the infobox has a caption that is the ship's name – there is no requirement for the caption to be the ship's name. When a ship has had multiple names, the other names can be listed collectively in |name=
of a single {{infobox ship career}}
or singly in each additional {{infobox ship career}}
.empty infobox; caption has background color css. |
|name=
field? For non-existing ships, the name shown in the header should be either the last or the most well-known, depending on the context. That would probably cause some conflicts, but unlikely anything that could not be solved through discussion.
Tupsumato (
talk)
12:04, 21 April 2014 (UTC)|infobox caption=''Whatever name''
|infobox caption=nodab
|infobox caption=yes
|infobox caption=nodab
|infobox caption=''Whatever Name'' (AAC-34)
|Ship name=
in {{
Infobox ship career}}
to have a value except when the ship had multiple names in its career or when the infobox has multiple {{Infobox ship career}}
templates; see the Sully example at right. There is no requirement that an infobox caption be the ship's name, you are free to put any text in the caption that you think appropriate.|Ship type=
. It would be much better if these infoboxes had captions.{{
Infobox ship class overview}}
. Yep, |Name=
is a possible solution ... for those of us who don't use screen readers.I noticed that User:Trappist the monk has been going around and removing non-breaking spaces from around × in the infoboxes. As a result, for example in the article Finnpusku there is a line break within the parenthesis that indicate the power rating of the main engines. Why is this preferrable to having non-breaking spaces? The infobox usage guide also instructs to put a non-breaking space around the × symbol. Tupsumato ( talk) 04:27, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
|parameter name=
, they follow <br />
, they follow bullet points, and, as in this case, they follow a pipe. In these positions the html entity
has no value so the script removes it in favor of editor readability.
is not. I've reverted that edit and rerun the script on
Finnpusku; the script properly ignored the
×
it had previously changed.I've noticed editors using both these fields for the same ship. If possible, make it so only one shows up at a time, to reinforce our intended usage: armor and armour are not to be used for separate kinds of protection, it's used to allow one infobox to cater to both British and American editors.
Example: USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) (before my fix). CapnZapp ( talk) 11:43, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Re Template:Infobox ship begin: How would "Ship tons burthen=" break the template? This must be the only template in which one can not do this. The tedious alternative is to add say "400 tons burthen" each time the template is used in an article. There must be a more elegant and efficient solution to this. Peter Horn User talk 19:09, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
|Ship tons burthen=
parameter. There is no parameter called |[[Builder's Old Measurement|tons burthen]]=
.}}{{#if:{{{Ship tons burthen|}}}|<tr valign="top"><td>Tons burthen:</td><td>
{{{Ship tons burthen|}}}</td></tr>
}}{{#if:{{{Ship tons burthen|}}}|<tr valign="top"><td>[[Builder's Old Measurement|Tons burthen]]:</td><td>
{{{Ship tons burthen|}}}</td></tr>
It seems that a common error by editors is to put the hull depth (one of the three principle numbers used in calculating the tonnage) under "draught". An example of this is the infobox for Taitsing (clipper) (yes, it's the same example as above, but there are others). Are there any instructions on exactly what information should go where in the infobox? If there are, how do we get editors to follow these instructions? ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 23:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Am I missing the point, or is the template deficient in how the tonnage of a vessel is described? Tons Burthen became obsolete in 1849. Therefore many ships that have Wikipedia articles about them are measured in Gross Registered Tonnage and Net Registered Tonnage. An example of the incorrect representation of information is in Taitsing (clipper) where the heading says "Tons Burthen" and the entry gives the Net Registered Tonnage. This misuse of terminology provides an apparent invalidation of the information in every article of this type. I appreciate that the subject of tons and tonnage in all the various permutations are confusing (look at The Cutty Sarks's own website [1] for an example of experts getting in a muddle - converting the GRT into tonnes) - but I think this part of the template needs attention. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 22:56, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
(Hopefully my last comment about this template....)
There seems to be no field for the material that a ship is made out of. This seems to me to be very relevant - obviously it pretty much all started with wood (ignoring leather covered boats, like a Currach, as that is not a ship), then iron, composite, steel, etc. More recently there have been fibreglass (GRP) minehunters and warships with steel hulls and aluminium superstructures.
Then we have the method of construction. For wooden ships that would include carvel, and diagonally planked vessels (I bet there are more methods than that). Steel ships are rivetted or welded.
Relevant to my current interests, I have been looking at the surge in building Composite ships in the second half of the 1860s. Many people seem to think that the only examples were clippers like the Cutty Sark - but there were many more than this class of ship, including quite a few steamships. It would be appropriate if ships of this era could show their construction material in the infobox.
I appreciate that this could grow into one great monster, if we got into copper fastenings below the waterline and galvanised iron above (that's permitted in the Lloyd's rules for composite construction).
Am I alone in thinking that "construction material/method" is an omission? What has to be done to fix it? ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 21:00, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
I've placed this template on two articles on cy:
and in both, the infobox is right at the bottom of the page. It's also causing havoc with blank spaces in the article text (eg following the title). Can someone take a look please, and add it to iw. Thanks, Llywelyn2000 ( talk) 19:07, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
|}
.I can't figure out what's wrong with this article: the infobox is split with half on the left and half on the right. DrKiernan ( talk) 18:26, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
{{
plainlist}}
works and I have added that to the infobox so that for the time being the page displays correctly. For accessibility, lists are preferred over breaks (<br />
).{{
plainlist}}
templates because bulleted lists are discouraged at
Template:Infobox ship begin/Usage guide#Diverse stylistic issues.The documentation says you can use |italic title=no
but this parameter is ignored. In
USS Arizona salvaged artifacts I had to place {{DISPLAYTITLE:USS ''Arizona'' salvaged artifacts|noerror}}
after the infobox templates to get the wanted result. |noerror
prevents an error message when a previous DISPLAYTITLE is overridden. I got the error message twice when I tried to place DISPLAYTITLE at the top, because both {{
Infobox ship begin}} and {{
Infobox ship career}} add a DISPLAYTITLE.
PrimeHunter (
talk)
11:21, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
|italic title=no
is, if I understand it, for a particular case for a particular article –
RNLB Lord Southborough (Civil Service No. 1) (ON 688). Without there is a sufficient number of those kinds of ships, I think that the parameter should be removed.italic title
from the documentation and instead instruct to use {{DISPLAYTITLE:...|noerror}}
after the infobox is OK by me.
PrimeHunter (
talk)
13:09, 18 April 2015 (UTC)"Failed to render property ship class: Property not found for label 'ship class' and language 'en'"
Tried to find the cause. No success. But text redirects people here. Antiochus the Great ( talk) 18:34, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
@
Trappist the monk: As you know, this recent problem occurred because this template obtained the value from the Wikidata property
ship class using the text label "ship class" (|WD=ship class
in paramline
sub-template). Though this makes the template easier to read, it is vulnerable to careless property renaming: Wikidata guarantees that its numerical IDs are stable (
see here) while labels, aliases and descriptions may change anytime.
I have no control over the code of the function translating the property label ({{#property}}
), I cannot make it scan property aliases and even if it was, I could never prevent aliases from changing.
Thus to prevent re-occurrence of an issue like the one above, I suggest that we change the template using either of these two schemes:
|WD=P289 <!-- vessel class -->
- simple but increases the size of the template|WD=P289 <noinclude><!-- vessel class --></noinclude>
- more cryptic, but smaller
transclusionDo you agree with the concept of that change? I would test it carefully, of course. Laddo ( talk) 14:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
{{
infobox ship characteristics}}
. I'm inclined to allow your experiment to continue and I think that now that the tempest has subsided those editors who did express a concern have gone on to other things.As https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/ says under Military addresses are just like regular addresses, countries may have separate addressing systems for military objects, including navy ships, for example HMS Example has a postal address BFPO, BF1 4FB. Is the template capable to display such data? (I suppose non-military ships may also have their own special addresses, but they might be more conventional, possibly redirecting through the ship owner's office.) -- CiaPan ( talk) 12:29, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Wikidata#Edit in Wikidata links. Thanks.
Evad37 [
talk
01:38, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
A while ago there was discussion about formatting of the infobox that is used on so many ship articles; see
above and
WT:SHIPS archive 34. The discussion was initially about formatting the table that contains the various infobox ship templates, {{
Infobox ship begin}}
, {{
Infobox ship image}}
, {{
Infobox ship career}}
, {{
Infobox ship characteristics}}
, and even unrelated infoboxes like {{
Infobox NRHP}}
and {{
Infobox lighthouse}}
.
The original discussions were the result of a simple change to {{
Infobox ship begin}}
that added the code |+ {{PAGENAME}}
. That change simply copied the text of the article title into the table's caption field (|+
). There were complaints about formatting and about the way the change was made and then reverted. I'm hoping to avoid a lot of that.
Since that discussion, I have been adding properly formatted captions to many ship-article infoboxes because the of the accessibility argument. A recent spate of edits undoing that work has led me here.
Several of the complaints about the original were related to the somewhat mindless way the article's title was used as the caption: no formatting, no display options. I think that I have addressed those complaints with changes that I have made to {{
Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
.
In the past, {{Infobox ship begin}}
has not had any parameters. I have created a new parameter, |infobox caption=
, which is used to control the display of a table caption at the top of the infobox. The parameter usage is like this:
|infobox caption=
– When |infobox caption=
is empty or omitted, {{Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
does not display a table caption at the top of the infobox (compatibility mode).|infobox caption=yes
– When |infobox caption=
is assigned the value yes
, {{Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
copies the article title to the infobox table's caption field. If the article name is a proper ship's name (<prefix> <name> <disambiguator>) then the caption will get the proper ship-name formatting. The article title must begin with a known prefix – see {{
ship prefix}}
.|infobox caption=nodab
– When |infobox caption=
is assigned the value nodab
, {{Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
copies the article title up to the parenthetical disambiguator to the infobox table's caption field. The disambiguator is not included in the infobox table caption. The article title must begin with a known prefix.|infobox caption=caption
– When |infobox caption=
is assigned any other value, that value is copied to the infobox table's caption. Formatting is the responsibility of the editor.I have tested this with a variety of ship articles. If the article currently requires {{
italic title}}
, {{
italic title prefixed}}
, or {{DISPLAYTITLE}}
to correctly format the article title then those methods are still required. Because there is a modicum of standardization in the whay ship articles are named, it may be possible to extend this functionality at the least to ship class articles.
So, I think that this template answers the format and display control issues raised in the previous discussion; it answers, at least in part the accessibility issues as well.
Opinions? Questions? Comments?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 23:10, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
{{
Infobox ship begin}}
from {{
Infobox ship begin/sandbox}}
, updated the template skeletons at
Template:Infobox ship begin/doc, and documented the new parameter at
Template:Infobox ship begin/Usage guide.Hi, looking at today's featured article USS Lexington (CV-2), I am puzzled by the field named "Struck". At first I thought it meant struck by a torpedo or air attack or something, but actually the date is six weeks after it sank, so that can't be right. I would like to suggest that the meaning of this word is explained somewhere. 86.160.213.213 ( talk) 01:45, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
{{
abbr}}
the documentation specifically states that the template is not a tool tip generator. <abbr>
has specific semantic meaning within html. A little bit of css in a span can produce similar effects without the need for the <abbr>
tag:<span title="Definition goes here" style="border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help">term to be defined</span>
→ term to be definedExactly, neither struck or stricken is an abbreviation so {{
abbr}}
shouldn't be used.
It would be nice if there were a way to have our cake and eat it too. I find that when editors include white space in their writings on a talk page, the writing is easier to understand. Not all talk-page writing is short terse comments. Sometimes editors go on at length on some topic. If editors are precluded from adding white space then we end up with a wall of text that is difficult to read so the writing doesn't get read.
We could all do as I have done here and wrap what we have to say in <p style="margin-left: 140px">...</p>
tags but it's much easier to to simply indent with colons. Perhaps some clever developer can find another prefix character that would take the place of the colon and apply appropriate markup that doesn't violate
WP:LISTGAP?
—
Trappist the monk (
talk)
19:53, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
Trappist the monk ( talk · contribs) made an undiscussed change to the ship infobox by adding infobox caption as a suggested parameter to the infobox headers. He's started to add it to a number of French warships and, frankly, it looks like crap. Furthermore it's redundant to the name of the ship and moves the infobox a little bit down the page. As our infoboxes are already long enough to get the occasional complaint that they're too long and dominate the page, that's not a good thing. I'll be reverting his changes to the articles that I've watchlisted, but I'll leave French cruiser Sully alone so people can see what it looks like with the caption.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 19:37, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
undiscussed changeis patently false.
One conversation in one place please.
On my talk page, Editor Sturmvogel 66 wrote, in part: I question the necessity or even the advisability of doing so as I believe that it does nothing to improve the article.
I think that you believe that because you can see it. Were you visually impaired, you might believe otherwise. The change to add a caption to the table that encloses the series of templates that make up a ship article infobox is relatively benign to those of us who are sighted. Yep, it pushes the infobox down a few pixels (on my monitor and
Sully, it moves the upper infobox boarder down until it's about in line with the top of the tall characters in the second line of lede text).
Adding the caption puts the ship infobox into compliance with MOS:INFOBOX. Here's the important bit:
{{PAGENAME}}
magic word) is usually fine. It should not contain a link. – (fourth bullet point under
Consistency between infoboxes)In this archive discussion, a couple of editors pointed out that the caption, and not the header, is the correct mechanism for allowing those who use screen readers to go directly to any of the tables in a page. And, the ship info box is nothing more than a table.
MOS:INFOBOX suggests using the article title for infobox captions. That idea was peremptorily dismissed for use on ship infoboxes. That got me to |infobox caption=
as part of {{
Infobox ship begin}}
with its several options. Now editors can add captions without knowing anything about wikitable syntax; editors are happy, MOS:INFOBOX is happy, screen reader users are happier, and the general reading public is oblivious.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 00:31, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Sully | |
---|---|
![]() Sister ship Gloire in 1913
| |
History | |
![]() | |
Namesake | Maximilien de Béthune, Duke of Sully |
Builder | Forges et Chantiers de la Méditerranée, La Seyne |
Laid down | 24 May 1899 |
Launched | 4 June 1901 |
Completed | June 1904 |
Fate | Ran aground, 7 February 1905 |
{{
infobox flag}}
has a structure similar to infobox ship. As infobox ship does, infobox flag begins and ends with table markup {| ... |}
, has caption markup |+
that displays either {{{name}}}
or defaults to {{PAGENAME}}
, and contains multiple subtemplates. See FA
Flag of Japan.{{
Infobox coin}}
like most infoboxes that use metatemplate {{
infobox}}
can display a caption and / or a header. See FA
Walking Liberty half dollar.|name=
is redundant when the infobox has a caption that is the ship's name – there is no requirement for the caption to be the ship's name. When a ship has had multiple names, the other names can be listed collectively in |name=
of a single {{infobox ship career}}
or singly in each additional {{infobox ship career}}
.empty infobox; caption has background color css. |
|name=
field? For non-existing ships, the name shown in the header should be either the last or the most well-known, depending on the context. That would probably cause some conflicts, but unlikely anything that could not be solved through discussion.
Tupsumato (
talk)
12:04, 21 April 2014 (UTC)|infobox caption=''Whatever name''
|infobox caption=nodab
|infobox caption=yes
|infobox caption=nodab
|infobox caption=''Whatever Name'' (AAC-34)
|Ship name=
in {{
Infobox ship career}}
to have a value except when the ship had multiple names in its career or when the infobox has multiple {{Infobox ship career}}
templates; see the Sully example at right. There is no requirement that an infobox caption be the ship's name, you are free to put any text in the caption that you think appropriate.|Ship type=
. It would be much better if these infoboxes had captions.{{
Infobox ship class overview}}
. Yep, |Name=
is a possible solution ... for those of us who don't use screen readers.I noticed that User:Trappist the monk has been going around and removing non-breaking spaces from around × in the infoboxes. As a result, for example in the article Finnpusku there is a line break within the parenthesis that indicate the power rating of the main engines. Why is this preferrable to having non-breaking spaces? The infobox usage guide also instructs to put a non-breaking space around the × symbol. Tupsumato ( talk) 04:27, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
|parameter name=
, they follow <br />
, they follow bullet points, and, as in this case, they follow a pipe. In these positions the html entity
has no value so the script removes it in favor of editor readability.
is not. I've reverted that edit and rerun the script on
Finnpusku; the script properly ignored the
×
it had previously changed.I've noticed editors using both these fields for the same ship. If possible, make it so only one shows up at a time, to reinforce our intended usage: armor and armour are not to be used for separate kinds of protection, it's used to allow one infobox to cater to both British and American editors.
Example: USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) (before my fix). CapnZapp ( talk) 11:43, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Re Template:Infobox ship begin: How would "Ship tons burthen=" break the template? This must be the only template in which one can not do this. The tedious alternative is to add say "400 tons burthen" each time the template is used in an article. There must be a more elegant and efficient solution to this. Peter Horn User talk 19:09, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
|Ship tons burthen=
parameter. There is no parameter called |[[Builder's Old Measurement|tons burthen]]=
.}}{{#if:{{{Ship tons burthen|}}}|<tr valign="top"><td>Tons burthen:</td><td>
{{{Ship tons burthen|}}}</td></tr>
}}{{#if:{{{Ship tons burthen|}}}|<tr valign="top"><td>[[Builder's Old Measurement|Tons burthen]]:</td><td>
{{{Ship tons burthen|}}}</td></tr>
It seems that a common error by editors is to put the hull depth (one of the three principle numbers used in calculating the tonnage) under "draught". An example of this is the infobox for Taitsing (clipper) (yes, it's the same example as above, but there are others). Are there any instructions on exactly what information should go where in the infobox? If there are, how do we get editors to follow these instructions? ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 23:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Am I missing the point, or is the template deficient in how the tonnage of a vessel is described? Tons Burthen became obsolete in 1849. Therefore many ships that have Wikipedia articles about them are measured in Gross Registered Tonnage and Net Registered Tonnage. An example of the incorrect representation of information is in Taitsing (clipper) where the heading says "Tons Burthen" and the entry gives the Net Registered Tonnage. This misuse of terminology provides an apparent invalidation of the information in every article of this type. I appreciate that the subject of tons and tonnage in all the various permutations are confusing (look at The Cutty Sarks's own website [1] for an example of experts getting in a muddle - converting the GRT into tonnes) - but I think this part of the template needs attention. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 22:56, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
(Hopefully my last comment about this template....)
There seems to be no field for the material that a ship is made out of. This seems to me to be very relevant - obviously it pretty much all started with wood (ignoring leather covered boats, like a Currach, as that is not a ship), then iron, composite, steel, etc. More recently there have been fibreglass (GRP) minehunters and warships with steel hulls and aluminium superstructures.
Then we have the method of construction. For wooden ships that would include carvel, and diagonally planked vessels (I bet there are more methods than that). Steel ships are rivetted or welded.
Relevant to my current interests, I have been looking at the surge in building Composite ships in the second half of the 1860s. Many people seem to think that the only examples were clippers like the Cutty Sark - but there were many more than this class of ship, including quite a few steamships. It would be appropriate if ships of this era could show their construction material in the infobox.
I appreciate that this could grow into one great monster, if we got into copper fastenings below the waterline and galvanised iron above (that's permitted in the Lloyd's rules for composite construction).
Am I alone in thinking that "construction material/method" is an omission? What has to be done to fix it? ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 21:00, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
I've placed this template on two articles on cy:
and in both, the infobox is right at the bottom of the page. It's also causing havoc with blank spaces in the article text (eg following the title). Can someone take a look please, and add it to iw. Thanks, Llywelyn2000 ( talk) 19:07, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
|}
.I can't figure out what's wrong with this article: the infobox is split with half on the left and half on the right. DrKiernan ( talk) 18:26, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
{{
plainlist}}
works and I have added that to the infobox so that for the time being the page displays correctly. For accessibility, lists are preferred over breaks (<br />
).{{
plainlist}}
templates because bulleted lists are discouraged at
Template:Infobox ship begin/Usage guide#Diverse stylistic issues.The documentation says you can use |italic title=no
but this parameter is ignored. In
USS Arizona salvaged artifacts I had to place {{DISPLAYTITLE:USS ''Arizona'' salvaged artifacts|noerror}}
after the infobox templates to get the wanted result. |noerror
prevents an error message when a previous DISPLAYTITLE is overridden. I got the error message twice when I tried to place DISPLAYTITLE at the top, because both {{
Infobox ship begin}} and {{
Infobox ship career}} add a DISPLAYTITLE.
PrimeHunter (
talk)
11:21, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
|italic title=no
is, if I understand it, for a particular case for a particular article –
RNLB Lord Southborough (Civil Service No. 1) (ON 688). Without there is a sufficient number of those kinds of ships, I think that the parameter should be removed.italic title
from the documentation and instead instruct to use {{DISPLAYTITLE:...|noerror}}
after the infobox is OK by me.
PrimeHunter (
talk)
13:09, 18 April 2015 (UTC)"Failed to render property ship class: Property not found for label 'ship class' and language 'en'"
Tried to find the cause. No success. But text redirects people here. Antiochus the Great ( talk) 18:34, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
@
Trappist the monk: As you know, this recent problem occurred because this template obtained the value from the Wikidata property
ship class using the text label "ship class" (|WD=ship class
in paramline
sub-template). Though this makes the template easier to read, it is vulnerable to careless property renaming: Wikidata guarantees that its numerical IDs are stable (
see here) while labels, aliases and descriptions may change anytime.
I have no control over the code of the function translating the property label ({{#property}}
), I cannot make it scan property aliases and even if it was, I could never prevent aliases from changing.
Thus to prevent re-occurrence of an issue like the one above, I suggest that we change the template using either of these two schemes:
|WD=P289 <!-- vessel class -->
- simple but increases the size of the template|WD=P289 <noinclude><!-- vessel class --></noinclude>
- more cryptic, but smaller
transclusionDo you agree with the concept of that change? I would test it carefully, of course. Laddo ( talk) 14:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
{{
infobox ship characteristics}}
. I'm inclined to allow your experiment to continue and I think that now that the tempest has subsided those editors who did express a concern have gone on to other things.As https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/ says under Military addresses are just like regular addresses, countries may have separate addressing systems for military objects, including navy ships, for example HMS Example has a postal address BFPO, BF1 4FB. Is the template capable to display such data? (I suppose non-military ships may also have their own special addresses, but they might be more conventional, possibly redirecting through the ship owner's office.) -- CiaPan ( talk) 12:29, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Wikidata#Edit in Wikidata links. Thanks.
Evad37 [
talk
01:38, 5 June 2015 (UTC)