This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Infobox pharaoh template. |
|
Ancient Egypt Template‑class | ||||||||||||
|
This template is designed to display the information on Egyptian pharaohs, inclusing their names in Egyptian hieroglyphs. All but the name are optional, the parameters are as below (for a full example see Ramesses II).
Parameters used with this template
Why are the various names of the Ancient Egyptian royal titulary out of canonical order? Ok, I can understand having the praenomen and nomen (in that order!) at the beginning, but the rest really ought to be in the Horus name, Neby name, Golden Horus name order IMO. — Flembles 14:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
This template probably shouldn't be in the Pharoah Infobox. The Pharoahs should have their Persondata templates placed directly before the categories (and defaultsort), not at the beginning of the article. No other infobox contains the Persondata template. Can it be removed from this infobox please? Thanks. -- Rajah 22:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
The size of this template has gotten out of control on many pages; it is both very long and very wide in many cases. I've developed a much more compact version of this template. The titulary is now hidden, accessible by hitting [show]. The predecessor and successor are now listed under the photograph; this allows them to be on one line each. The dynasty will follow the reignal years, saving additional space. The cartouches will render better now, particularly the tip and tail, although I haven't found a solution to the topward alignment problem that has always been there. I think the solution would be something like the <center> syntax, only for the vertical dimension, but I'm not sure what the syntax is. The cartouches will also be on their own line, allowing the template to be narrower. The picture will no longer have a frame; this allows the image to fill the space more fully. The default image size will be 250 pixels wide, but the user can manually input a different size where appropriate. I decided to omit the alternate names parameter because we probably shouldn't be reinforcing archaic spellings of names, but it could be added back at any time if there's an uproar over it. Each usage of the new template will probably need to be fixed because a few of the parameter names have been changed, but I am willing to do the work and I don't think the changes are that major. The nomen/pronomen parameters are slightly different, to make the cartouches work correctly, and the "issue" parameter is now called "children", but for now I left the old syntax as an option so at least that parameter will be backwards compatible. Although the transition to the new version of the template may take some time, having the size of this thing under control is long overdue. Jeff Dahl ( Talk • contribs) 05:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I do not think the titularies should be hidden: I am all for reducing clutter in infoboxes, but the royal titulary of Pharaohs is crucial information, and should be accessible at once. I just spent two minutes wondering where the titularies had gone before I saw the "show" button, and I am highly familiar with Wikipedia and its infoboxes. I appreciate the other changes, but I strongly recommend the names should be uncollapsed by default. -- dab (𒁳) 09:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Recently a contributor originally from the German Wikipedia has been doing some edits to the entries for the early pharaohs, such as Hotepsekhemwy, Raneb, Seth-Peribsen, and Senedj. Unfortunately he has been overwriting the Pharaoh infobox with the Hieroglyphen (German) infobox. My first thought was to revert, but I think he has a point in that the English Wikipedia is ignoring the alternate names/titles that sometimes for various pharaohs, and not just from the Old Kingdom.
To accommodate that I suggest adding "alt_name_hiero1" through to "alt_name_hiero5" (all of them optional) which hopefully will cover off the majority of alternate hieroglyphic names/titles that might exist. Alternately it could also be "alt_nomen_hiero1" - "alt_nomen_hiero5", "alt_horus_hiero1" - "alt_horus_hiero5", "alt_nebty_hiero1" - "alt_nebty_hiero5", and "alt_golden_hiero1" - "alt_golden_hiero5", though this might be seen as an unnecessary proliferation of optional elements.
Thoughts? Opinions? Captmondo ( talk) 16:08, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello!^^ With the overwriting of the infoboxes once always used here, I did NOT mean to vandalize or to ignore rules by purpose! As to users like Chewings72, Captmondo and AnnekeBart, I already explained why I prefer to use the boxes originating from German Wikipedia.
Now to the German boxes. Our boxes give the technical possibilites to show all sorts of royal or civil names and titles. German Wikipedia uses a wide varity of boxes, usable by will and want. With this boxes en.Wikipedia was able to present all names and titles as they are proofed by archaeology and egyptology. Our team of the Portal:Egyptology will be always ready to share its boxes with en.Wikipedia. Cheers; -- Nephiliskos ( talk) 18:03, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
I hope I do not sound snappish now, but I see no sense in using the terms "Rulership" and "Predecessor/Successor" within the infobox. The box was thought only for presenting names and titles in hieroglyphs, when the king ruled the reader finds out already in the introduction. Why writing facts double? The infos about predecessors and successors can be mentioned in the intro, too. Otherwise - hey, there´s a tiny box at the end of the article presenting the throne line. Cheers; -- Nephiliskos ( talk) 15:18, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
There is in the moment a problem with the Horus name. It needs to be placed in a rectangular box. In the old template that was done, not in the new one. bw -- Udimu ( talk) 07:17, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
The paramater |era=
mentioned in the Doc does not work. It belongs to {{
Hiero}}
. The unmentioned parameter |coregency=
does work.
Please fix.-- Auric talk 13:58, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
|era=
has never been in the template. I could be missing something. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 16:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)This template should have a field for inputting the birth and death places for pharaohs. Though it is true that most birthplaces of kings are not known, some do have areas from which they originated (eg Horemheb), something usually put in an infobox for other articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.176.168.21 ( talk) 20:28, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
Dear
Khruner,
A. Parrot,
Nephiliskos,
Udimu,
Ealdgyth,
PiCo,
Tim riley,
Me, Myself, and I are Here, as active users editing Ancient Egypt articles, I need your opinion on a simple question. There is a potential problem in the design of the pharaoh infobox as most people seem to miss the [show] button next to "Royal titulary". There are three possibilities regarding this issue:
1) put [show] on by default;
2) make the [show] button more conspicuous (write [click to show], use bold font, a special color, or a combination of those);
3) do nothing, there is no problem.
Could you please give your opinion on the matter?
Iry-Hor (
talk) 07:59, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
People may also want to see Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#A_request_on_a_generic_infobox where another solution was having the show button on another line. Galobtter ( pingó mió) 19:09, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
I definitely think this information should be made more visible than it currently is, but I understand people's objections with the hieroglyphs often looking a bit rubbish and taking up a lot of space. Would a possible compromise be to default to only showing the prenomen and nomen, and having a button to control the visibility of the more obscure titles? Woscafrench ( talk, contribs) 17:30, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
Khruner, A. Parrot, Nephiliskos, Udimu, Ealdgyth, PiCo, Tim riley, Me, Myself, and I are Here, following on from the discussion above (which was quite a long time ago now, but its been bothering me for a while). I think by default wikipedia should be displaying some of the real names for each pharaoh, but even with the show button being made more visible it is not at all obvious that this information is already available. I've seen examples of pages for pharoahs where users have added in this information a second time because they weren't aware of it being in the infobox. I've made a change to the sandbox template so that prenomen, nomen and horus names are visible by default (if they exist). Do you have any thoughts? Woscafrench ( talk) 23:49, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
I suggest adding the "child" parameter to the template. Sardar ( talk) 17:31, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
Hey, I am a Japanese Wikipedian of Egyptology. I have been wondering why the order of the five-fold titulary is not accurate in Enwp?
I had this question when I decided to join this editing volunteer over 1 year ago, but I left this problem out when I improved this Template in Jawp.
Japanese Template was affected by the English version, when the man who was not familiar in Egyptology imported this Template in Jawp. I worry that some people get the order wrong, of course the fact order is; Horus, Nebty, Golden, Throne, Birth. I want to know the reason. Thank you.-- Sethemhat ( talk) 11:58, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
I am using mobile phone. On desktop view everything is fine. But on mobile view, when I touch the "show" link to expand the Royal titulary (present in the infobox) nothing happens (just the yellow ribbon cuts in two). Moreover, when I look at the article logged-out, the show link is missing (again it cuts in two). For example, look at Akhenaten. Aminabzz ( talk) 23:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Infobox pharaoh template. |
|
Ancient Egypt Template‑class | ||||||||||||
|
This template is designed to display the information on Egyptian pharaohs, inclusing their names in Egyptian hieroglyphs. All but the name are optional, the parameters are as below (for a full example see Ramesses II).
Parameters used with this template
Why are the various names of the Ancient Egyptian royal titulary out of canonical order? Ok, I can understand having the praenomen and nomen (in that order!) at the beginning, but the rest really ought to be in the Horus name, Neby name, Golden Horus name order IMO. — Flembles 14:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
This template probably shouldn't be in the Pharoah Infobox. The Pharoahs should have their Persondata templates placed directly before the categories (and defaultsort), not at the beginning of the article. No other infobox contains the Persondata template. Can it be removed from this infobox please? Thanks. -- Rajah 22:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
The size of this template has gotten out of control on many pages; it is both very long and very wide in many cases. I've developed a much more compact version of this template. The titulary is now hidden, accessible by hitting [show]. The predecessor and successor are now listed under the photograph; this allows them to be on one line each. The dynasty will follow the reignal years, saving additional space. The cartouches will render better now, particularly the tip and tail, although I haven't found a solution to the topward alignment problem that has always been there. I think the solution would be something like the <center> syntax, only for the vertical dimension, but I'm not sure what the syntax is. The cartouches will also be on their own line, allowing the template to be narrower. The picture will no longer have a frame; this allows the image to fill the space more fully. The default image size will be 250 pixels wide, but the user can manually input a different size where appropriate. I decided to omit the alternate names parameter because we probably shouldn't be reinforcing archaic spellings of names, but it could be added back at any time if there's an uproar over it. Each usage of the new template will probably need to be fixed because a few of the parameter names have been changed, but I am willing to do the work and I don't think the changes are that major. The nomen/pronomen parameters are slightly different, to make the cartouches work correctly, and the "issue" parameter is now called "children", but for now I left the old syntax as an option so at least that parameter will be backwards compatible. Although the transition to the new version of the template may take some time, having the size of this thing under control is long overdue. Jeff Dahl ( Talk • contribs) 05:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I do not think the titularies should be hidden: I am all for reducing clutter in infoboxes, but the royal titulary of Pharaohs is crucial information, and should be accessible at once. I just spent two minutes wondering where the titularies had gone before I saw the "show" button, and I am highly familiar with Wikipedia and its infoboxes. I appreciate the other changes, but I strongly recommend the names should be uncollapsed by default. -- dab (𒁳) 09:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Recently a contributor originally from the German Wikipedia has been doing some edits to the entries for the early pharaohs, such as Hotepsekhemwy, Raneb, Seth-Peribsen, and Senedj. Unfortunately he has been overwriting the Pharaoh infobox with the Hieroglyphen (German) infobox. My first thought was to revert, but I think he has a point in that the English Wikipedia is ignoring the alternate names/titles that sometimes for various pharaohs, and not just from the Old Kingdom.
To accommodate that I suggest adding "alt_name_hiero1" through to "alt_name_hiero5" (all of them optional) which hopefully will cover off the majority of alternate hieroglyphic names/titles that might exist. Alternately it could also be "alt_nomen_hiero1" - "alt_nomen_hiero5", "alt_horus_hiero1" - "alt_horus_hiero5", "alt_nebty_hiero1" - "alt_nebty_hiero5", and "alt_golden_hiero1" - "alt_golden_hiero5", though this might be seen as an unnecessary proliferation of optional elements.
Thoughts? Opinions? Captmondo ( talk) 16:08, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello!^^ With the overwriting of the infoboxes once always used here, I did NOT mean to vandalize or to ignore rules by purpose! As to users like Chewings72, Captmondo and AnnekeBart, I already explained why I prefer to use the boxes originating from German Wikipedia.
Now to the German boxes. Our boxes give the technical possibilites to show all sorts of royal or civil names and titles. German Wikipedia uses a wide varity of boxes, usable by will and want. With this boxes en.Wikipedia was able to present all names and titles as they are proofed by archaeology and egyptology. Our team of the Portal:Egyptology will be always ready to share its boxes with en.Wikipedia. Cheers; -- Nephiliskos ( talk) 18:03, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
I hope I do not sound snappish now, but I see no sense in using the terms "Rulership" and "Predecessor/Successor" within the infobox. The box was thought only for presenting names and titles in hieroglyphs, when the king ruled the reader finds out already in the introduction. Why writing facts double? The infos about predecessors and successors can be mentioned in the intro, too. Otherwise - hey, there´s a tiny box at the end of the article presenting the throne line. Cheers; -- Nephiliskos ( talk) 15:18, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
There is in the moment a problem with the Horus name. It needs to be placed in a rectangular box. In the old template that was done, not in the new one. bw -- Udimu ( talk) 07:17, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
The paramater |era=
mentioned in the Doc does not work. It belongs to {{
Hiero}}
. The unmentioned parameter |coregency=
does work.
Please fix.-- Auric talk 13:58, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
|era=
has never been in the template. I could be missing something. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 16:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)This template should have a field for inputting the birth and death places for pharaohs. Though it is true that most birthplaces of kings are not known, some do have areas from which they originated (eg Horemheb), something usually put in an infobox for other articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.176.168.21 ( talk) 20:28, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
Dear
Khruner,
A. Parrot,
Nephiliskos,
Udimu,
Ealdgyth,
PiCo,
Tim riley,
Me, Myself, and I are Here, as active users editing Ancient Egypt articles, I need your opinion on a simple question. There is a potential problem in the design of the pharaoh infobox as most people seem to miss the [show] button next to "Royal titulary". There are three possibilities regarding this issue:
1) put [show] on by default;
2) make the [show] button more conspicuous (write [click to show], use bold font, a special color, or a combination of those);
3) do nothing, there is no problem.
Could you please give your opinion on the matter?
Iry-Hor (
talk) 07:59, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
People may also want to see Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#A_request_on_a_generic_infobox where another solution was having the show button on another line. Galobtter ( pingó mió) 19:09, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
I definitely think this information should be made more visible than it currently is, but I understand people's objections with the hieroglyphs often looking a bit rubbish and taking up a lot of space. Would a possible compromise be to default to only showing the prenomen and nomen, and having a button to control the visibility of the more obscure titles? Woscafrench ( talk, contribs) 17:30, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
Khruner, A. Parrot, Nephiliskos, Udimu, Ealdgyth, PiCo, Tim riley, Me, Myself, and I are Here, following on from the discussion above (which was quite a long time ago now, but its been bothering me for a while). I think by default wikipedia should be displaying some of the real names for each pharaoh, but even with the show button being made more visible it is not at all obvious that this information is already available. I've seen examples of pages for pharoahs where users have added in this information a second time because they weren't aware of it being in the infobox. I've made a change to the sandbox template so that prenomen, nomen and horus names are visible by default (if they exist). Do you have any thoughts? Woscafrench ( talk) 23:49, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
I suggest adding the "child" parameter to the template. Sardar ( talk) 17:31, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
Hey, I am a Japanese Wikipedian of Egyptology. I have been wondering why the order of the five-fold titulary is not accurate in Enwp?
I had this question when I decided to join this editing volunteer over 1 year ago, but I left this problem out when I improved this Template in Jawp.
Japanese Template was affected by the English version, when the man who was not familiar in Egyptology imported this Template in Jawp. I worry that some people get the order wrong, of course the fact order is; Horus, Nebty, Golden, Throne, Birth. I want to know the reason. Thank you.-- Sethemhat ( talk) 11:58, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
I am using mobile phone. On desktop view everything is fine. But on mobile view, when I touch the "show" link to expand the Royal titulary (present in the infobox) nothing happens (just the yellow ribbon cuts in two). Moreover, when I look at the article logged-out, the show link is missing (again it cuts in two). For example, look at Akhenaten. Aminabzz ( talk) 23:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)