So of infobox metatemplate used so far, the following 'blank' can be constructed and tested (by editing the section or copy and paste the "Blank" elsewehere and define the parameters). If you click the 'Edit' link below you will see structure set out twice - the example calling of the proposal (shown on right) and the inactive display shown on the left (within <pre> </pre> tags)ng) to test out parameters and the infobox (edit this page to try out parameter values below - the duplication within the 'pre' tags is just the inactive left-hand display).
Finally when the infobox is ready to go live, it should be moved (renamed) from Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox Medieval text to Template:Infobox Medieval text.
Feel free to ask if you need help. David Ruben Talk 01:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Pangur Bán | |
---|---|
Author(s) | Unknown |
Language | Old Irish |
Date | 8th century |
Manuscript(s) | Reichenau Primer |
Genre | Poetry |
Subject | Work, cats |
Personages | Monk and his cat |
{{Infobox Medieval text | name = Pangur Bán | alternative title(s) = | image = file:Reichenauer Schulheft 1v 2r kl1.jpg | width = 150 | caption = The page of the Reichenau Primer on which Pangur Bán is written. | author(s) = Unknown | compiled by = | language = [[Old Irish]] | date = 8th century | provenance = | manuscript(s) = [[Reichenau Primer]] | genre = Poetry | mode = | subject = Work, cats | setting = | period covered = | personages = Monk and his cat }}
We need a way to test whether a single template is at all convenient, meaning comprehensive and flexible yet standardised and transparent enough, for a variety of medieval sources (histories, literature (prose and poetry), cartularies, legal texts, handbooks, translations, etc.). So here are couple of further testcases:
Hemming's Cartulary | |
---|---|
Liber Wigorniensis and Hemming's Cartulary proper | |
Author(s) | Hemming (2nd part) |
Compiled by | Hemming (2nd part) |
Language | medieval Latin |
Date | mostly 996 x 1016 (Liber Wigorniensis); late 11th / early 12th century (2nd part) |
Provenance | Worcester Cathedral |
Authenticity | contains some spurious charters |
Manuscript(s) | Cotton Tiberius A xiii |
First printed edition | 1723 by Thomas Hearne |
Genre | Cartulary |
Subject | Charters of Worcester Cathedral |
Period covered | 10th and 11th century |
Personages | Cnut, William the Conqueror, others |
{{Infobox Medieval text <!----------Name----------> | name = ''Hemming's Cartulary'' | alternative title(s) = ''Liber Wigorniensis'' and Hemming's Cartulary proper | image = File:Hemmingscartfolio121.jpg | width = | caption = Page from Hemming's Cartulary, this is folio 121 of the manuscript <!----------Information----------> | author(s) = Hemming (2nd part) | compiled by = Hemming (2nd part) | patron = | dedicated to = | audience = | language = medieval Latin | date = mostly 996 x 1016 (''Liber Wigorniensis''); late 11th / early 12th century (2nd part) | provenance = [[Worcester Cathedral]] | authenticity = contains some spurious charters | first printed edition = 1723 by [[Thomas Hearne]] | manuscript(s) = Cotton Tiberius A xiii <!----------Form and content----------> | genre = [[Cartulary]] | subject = [[Charter]]s of [[Worcester Cathedral]] | setting = | period covered = 10th and 11th century | personages = [[Cnut]], [[William the Conqueror]], others
Táin Bó Cúailnge | |
---|---|
"The Cattle Raid of Cooley" | |
Language | Old, Middle (recensions I and II); Early Modern Irish (recension III) |
Manuscript(s) | Lebor na hUidre, Yellow Book of Lecan (recension I); Book of Leinster (recension II) |
Genre | Ulster Cycle, prose with some verse |
Subject | Connacht cattle raid on Ulster |
Setting | mainly Ulster and Connacht |
Period covered | pre-Christian heroic age |
Personages | Cú Chulainn, Conchobor, Medb, etc. |
{{Infobox Medieval text | name = ''Táin Bó Cúailnge'' | alternative title(s) = "The Cattle Raid of Cooley" | image = File:Cuchulain in Battle.jpg | width = 175 | caption = Cú Chulainn in battle, illustration by Joseph Christian Leyendecker; from T.W. Rolleston, ''Myths and Legends of the Celtic Race'' (1911) | author(s) = | language = [[Old Irish|Old]], [[Middle Irish|Middle]] (recensions I and II); [[Early Modern Irish]] (recension III) | date = | provenance = | manuscript(s) = Lebor na hUidre, Yellow Book of Lecan (recension I); Book of Leinster (recension II) | genre = [[Ulster Cycle]], prose with some verse | subject = Connacht cattle raid on Ulster | setting = mainly Ulster and Connacht | period covered = pre-Christian heroic age | personages = Cú Chulainn, Conchobor, Medb, etc. }}
Anglo-Saxon Chronicle | |
---|---|
Language | Old English, some Latin; a specimen of early Middle English (MS E). |
Provenance | Wessex, Mercia |
State of existence | 9th-century West-Saxon original lost |
Manuscript(s) | 9 classes |
MS A: Cambridge CCC MS. 173 | |
MS B: BL Cotton MS. Tiberius A vi | |
MS C: etc. | |
First printed edition | by Laurence Nowell |
Genre | chronicle; mainly prose, five poems. |
Period covered | 60 BC — AD 1070 (MS A); 60 BC — AD 977 (MS B); 60 BC — AD 1066 (MS C); AD 1 — 1080 (MS D); 60 BC — 1154 (MS E) |
Sources | include Bede's Historia Ecclesiastica and genealogical and regnal lists for the early period; contemporary after 823. |
{{Infobox Medieval text <!----------Name----------> | name = Title of text | alternative title(s) = title in English or in the original language; non-English title in appropriate (e.g. Greek) script. Alternative titles which do not belong here can be entered in the title fields of the main body below. <!----------Image----------> | image = "file:example.jpg", image appropriate to the text. | width = image width is set at 225px by default, but may be adjusted if appropriate. | caption = brief description of image <!----------Information----------> | full title = full title | also known as = alternative titles which do not belong in the subheader | author(s) = author(s) of the text (not be confused with scribe(s)). | ascribed to = ascribed author, if the case for authorship rests on a medieval authority, but is not universally acknowledged by modern scholars. | compiled by = the medieval person (often a scribe or the scribe's master) responsible for compiling and arranging the text | illustrated by = medieval illustrator. Please also indicate the relevant manuscript(s). | patron = patron (who may or may not be addressed in the text) | dedicated to = dedicatee (who may or may not be the same person as the patron) | audience = audience of the text (intended or not), if sufficiently known and noteworthy, e.g. the nuns addressed in Aldhelm's ''De Laude Virginitatis''. | language = language(s) used by the text, e.g. Middle High German, Old Norse, Hiberno-Latin, etc. | date = (approximate) date of composition, or date range | date of issue = date when a law was promulgated, charter issued, etc. | provenance = place of origin, e.g. region or monastic house | state of existence = if appropriate, mark as hypothetical, fictitious or legendary; fragmentary or incomplete. | authenticity = spurious or fabricated | series = series of which the text is part | manuscript(s) = list of manuscripts | MS class 1 = additional fields using the full box width, intended for more extensive information on manuscripts | MS class 2 = | MS class 3 = | MS class 4 = | MS class 5 = | MS class 6 = | MS class 7 = | principal manuscript(s) = principal manuscript | first printed edition = first printed edition <!----------Form and content----------> | verse form = prosodic features, rhyme, alliteration, etc. | length = number of words, lines, folios, etc. | illustration(s) = brief description of medieval illustration(s) | genre = genre or text type | subject = brief description of subject or theme(s) | setting = setting, such as period and locale; usually for literature | period covered = (approximate) period. For historical works, one may want to specify the years covered by the entries, e.g. for ''Annals of Tigernach'', AD 34-378 (Dublin fragment); AD 142-361 (2nd fragment), etc. | personages = (leading) characters in a literary text, or historical personages | personages (long list) = additional fields using the full box width, intended for longer lists of personages | sources = source(s) from which the text or compilation is derived | below = text in bottom cell, intended for footnotes, see-also, and other such information. }}
What's the proposed scope of this? Are we aiming to only cover European Medieval texts or should we put some thought into worrying about Chinese/Japanese/Islamic/etc. texts? So far it looks good to me, although it might be good to see it a poetical example as well as maybe something more dry than Hemming's? Nuremburg? ASC? Ealdgyth - Talk 14:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
We should probably keep in mind that not all texts enjoy the luxury of having their own article space. Some are embedded in an article about their author or compiler and where one work takes centre stage (e.g. " John of Worcester", which hardly deals with his life), one might consider using the template. But anyway, this is more about the prudence of editors using the infobox, not that of editors editing it. Cavila ( talk) 08:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
There are a number of "supposed" texts that we need to consider also, do we want to cover these? Ealdgyth - Talk 14:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Do we want to note where it is currently located as well as the first printed versions? Ealdgyth - Talk 14:45, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to insert the option of an alternative title (centred) just below the main one, in place of the area below the image+caption, but I can't get it to work. I tried it with "header" and "header1", but no such luck. Any ideas? Cavila ( talk) 11:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The image coding is that of the metatemplate {{ Infobox}}, and it requires full markup of the image reference with the editor having to specify the image width. In general, infoboxes should not be too wide and I would suggest having a default width that more experienced editors can adjust if they wish. imagestyle parameter is messy to code.
Hence I would suggest image takes just the (unlinked) filename, and an optional width parameter set if required, otherwise a default width of 225px applies - coding done along lines of:
| image={{#if:{{{image|}}}|[[{{{image}}}|{{px|{{{width|}}}|225}}]]}} i.e. ^if defined, ^image of ^width ^defined ^or 225 default
Exampes of this template then being used:
| image = file:example.jpg | width = is shown as 225 pixels width | image = file:example.jpg | width = 150 is shown with stated 150 pixel size
The passing of such parameter values to metatemplate would of course need to be checked out, but is it an approach you wish to explore ? David Ruben Talk 22:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks pretty good to me. At least I can't think of anything else to add. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Done at least you copied with the page histories (vs just copy & pasted the text), so seemed simplest to just delete the proposal subpages (not quite the neat "move to go live" but it worked) :-) David Ruben Talk 00:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
That would be nice on the main page is a full listing of the stuff but blank so that you can copy-paste it into new articles, without having to wipe out a whole bunch of explanatory stuff. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Done David Ruben Talk 00:30, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
So of infobox metatemplate used so far, the following 'blank' can be constructed and tested (by editing the section or copy and paste the "Blank" elsewehere and define the parameters). If you click the 'Edit' link below you will see structure set out twice - the example calling of the proposal (shown on right) and the inactive display shown on the left (within <pre> </pre> tags)ng) to test out parameters and the infobox (edit this page to try out parameter values below - the duplication within the 'pre' tags is just the inactive left-hand display).
Finally when the infobox is ready to go live, it should be moved (renamed) from Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox Medieval text to Template:Infobox Medieval text.
Feel free to ask if you need help. David Ruben Talk 01:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Pangur Bán | |
---|---|
Author(s) | Unknown |
Language | Old Irish |
Date | 8th century |
Manuscript(s) | Reichenau Primer |
Genre | Poetry |
Subject | Work, cats |
Personages | Monk and his cat |
{{Infobox Medieval text | name = Pangur Bán | alternative title(s) = | image = file:Reichenauer Schulheft 1v 2r kl1.jpg | width = 150 | caption = The page of the Reichenau Primer on which Pangur Bán is written. | author(s) = Unknown | compiled by = | language = [[Old Irish]] | date = 8th century | provenance = | manuscript(s) = [[Reichenau Primer]] | genre = Poetry | mode = | subject = Work, cats | setting = | period covered = | personages = Monk and his cat }}
We need a way to test whether a single template is at all convenient, meaning comprehensive and flexible yet standardised and transparent enough, for a variety of medieval sources (histories, literature (prose and poetry), cartularies, legal texts, handbooks, translations, etc.). So here are couple of further testcases:
Hemming's Cartulary | |
---|---|
Liber Wigorniensis and Hemming's Cartulary proper | |
Author(s) | Hemming (2nd part) |
Compiled by | Hemming (2nd part) |
Language | medieval Latin |
Date | mostly 996 x 1016 (Liber Wigorniensis); late 11th / early 12th century (2nd part) |
Provenance | Worcester Cathedral |
Authenticity | contains some spurious charters |
Manuscript(s) | Cotton Tiberius A xiii |
First printed edition | 1723 by Thomas Hearne |
Genre | Cartulary |
Subject | Charters of Worcester Cathedral |
Period covered | 10th and 11th century |
Personages | Cnut, William the Conqueror, others |
{{Infobox Medieval text <!----------Name----------> | name = ''Hemming's Cartulary'' | alternative title(s) = ''Liber Wigorniensis'' and Hemming's Cartulary proper | image = File:Hemmingscartfolio121.jpg | width = | caption = Page from Hemming's Cartulary, this is folio 121 of the manuscript <!----------Information----------> | author(s) = Hemming (2nd part) | compiled by = Hemming (2nd part) | patron = | dedicated to = | audience = | language = medieval Latin | date = mostly 996 x 1016 (''Liber Wigorniensis''); late 11th / early 12th century (2nd part) | provenance = [[Worcester Cathedral]] | authenticity = contains some spurious charters | first printed edition = 1723 by [[Thomas Hearne]] | manuscript(s) = Cotton Tiberius A xiii <!----------Form and content----------> | genre = [[Cartulary]] | subject = [[Charter]]s of [[Worcester Cathedral]] | setting = | period covered = 10th and 11th century | personages = [[Cnut]], [[William the Conqueror]], others
Táin Bó Cúailnge | |
---|---|
"The Cattle Raid of Cooley" | |
Language | Old, Middle (recensions I and II); Early Modern Irish (recension III) |
Manuscript(s) | Lebor na hUidre, Yellow Book of Lecan (recension I); Book of Leinster (recension II) |
Genre | Ulster Cycle, prose with some verse |
Subject | Connacht cattle raid on Ulster |
Setting | mainly Ulster and Connacht |
Period covered | pre-Christian heroic age |
Personages | Cú Chulainn, Conchobor, Medb, etc. |
{{Infobox Medieval text | name = ''Táin Bó Cúailnge'' | alternative title(s) = "The Cattle Raid of Cooley" | image = File:Cuchulain in Battle.jpg | width = 175 | caption = Cú Chulainn in battle, illustration by Joseph Christian Leyendecker; from T.W. Rolleston, ''Myths and Legends of the Celtic Race'' (1911) | author(s) = | language = [[Old Irish|Old]], [[Middle Irish|Middle]] (recensions I and II); [[Early Modern Irish]] (recension III) | date = | provenance = | manuscript(s) = Lebor na hUidre, Yellow Book of Lecan (recension I); Book of Leinster (recension II) | genre = [[Ulster Cycle]], prose with some verse | subject = Connacht cattle raid on Ulster | setting = mainly Ulster and Connacht | period covered = pre-Christian heroic age | personages = Cú Chulainn, Conchobor, Medb, etc. }}
Anglo-Saxon Chronicle | |
---|---|
Language | Old English, some Latin; a specimen of early Middle English (MS E). |
Provenance | Wessex, Mercia |
State of existence | 9th-century West-Saxon original lost |
Manuscript(s) | 9 classes |
MS A: Cambridge CCC MS. 173 | |
MS B: BL Cotton MS. Tiberius A vi | |
MS C: etc. | |
First printed edition | by Laurence Nowell |
Genre | chronicle; mainly prose, five poems. |
Period covered | 60 BC — AD 1070 (MS A); 60 BC — AD 977 (MS B); 60 BC — AD 1066 (MS C); AD 1 — 1080 (MS D); 60 BC — 1154 (MS E) |
Sources | include Bede's Historia Ecclesiastica and genealogical and regnal lists for the early period; contemporary after 823. |
{{Infobox Medieval text <!----------Name----------> | name = Title of text | alternative title(s) = title in English or in the original language; non-English title in appropriate (e.g. Greek) script. Alternative titles which do not belong here can be entered in the title fields of the main body below. <!----------Image----------> | image = "file:example.jpg", image appropriate to the text. | width = image width is set at 225px by default, but may be adjusted if appropriate. | caption = brief description of image <!----------Information----------> | full title = full title | also known as = alternative titles which do not belong in the subheader | author(s) = author(s) of the text (not be confused with scribe(s)). | ascribed to = ascribed author, if the case for authorship rests on a medieval authority, but is not universally acknowledged by modern scholars. | compiled by = the medieval person (often a scribe or the scribe's master) responsible for compiling and arranging the text | illustrated by = medieval illustrator. Please also indicate the relevant manuscript(s). | patron = patron (who may or may not be addressed in the text) | dedicated to = dedicatee (who may or may not be the same person as the patron) | audience = audience of the text (intended or not), if sufficiently known and noteworthy, e.g. the nuns addressed in Aldhelm's ''De Laude Virginitatis''. | language = language(s) used by the text, e.g. Middle High German, Old Norse, Hiberno-Latin, etc. | date = (approximate) date of composition, or date range | date of issue = date when a law was promulgated, charter issued, etc. | provenance = place of origin, e.g. region or monastic house | state of existence = if appropriate, mark as hypothetical, fictitious or legendary; fragmentary or incomplete. | authenticity = spurious or fabricated | series = series of which the text is part | manuscript(s) = list of manuscripts | MS class 1 = additional fields using the full box width, intended for more extensive information on manuscripts | MS class 2 = | MS class 3 = | MS class 4 = | MS class 5 = | MS class 6 = | MS class 7 = | principal manuscript(s) = principal manuscript | first printed edition = first printed edition <!----------Form and content----------> | verse form = prosodic features, rhyme, alliteration, etc. | length = number of words, lines, folios, etc. | illustration(s) = brief description of medieval illustration(s) | genre = genre or text type | subject = brief description of subject or theme(s) | setting = setting, such as period and locale; usually for literature | period covered = (approximate) period. For historical works, one may want to specify the years covered by the entries, e.g. for ''Annals of Tigernach'', AD 34-378 (Dublin fragment); AD 142-361 (2nd fragment), etc. | personages = (leading) characters in a literary text, or historical personages | personages (long list) = additional fields using the full box width, intended for longer lists of personages | sources = source(s) from which the text or compilation is derived | below = text in bottom cell, intended for footnotes, see-also, and other such information. }}
What's the proposed scope of this? Are we aiming to only cover European Medieval texts or should we put some thought into worrying about Chinese/Japanese/Islamic/etc. texts? So far it looks good to me, although it might be good to see it a poetical example as well as maybe something more dry than Hemming's? Nuremburg? ASC? Ealdgyth - Talk 14:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
We should probably keep in mind that not all texts enjoy the luxury of having their own article space. Some are embedded in an article about their author or compiler and where one work takes centre stage (e.g. " John of Worcester", which hardly deals with his life), one might consider using the template. But anyway, this is more about the prudence of editors using the infobox, not that of editors editing it. Cavila ( talk) 08:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
There are a number of "supposed" texts that we need to consider also, do we want to cover these? Ealdgyth - Talk 14:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Do we want to note where it is currently located as well as the first printed versions? Ealdgyth - Talk 14:45, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to insert the option of an alternative title (centred) just below the main one, in place of the area below the image+caption, but I can't get it to work. I tried it with "header" and "header1", but no such luck. Any ideas? Cavila ( talk) 11:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The image coding is that of the metatemplate {{ Infobox}}, and it requires full markup of the image reference with the editor having to specify the image width. In general, infoboxes should not be too wide and I would suggest having a default width that more experienced editors can adjust if they wish. imagestyle parameter is messy to code.
Hence I would suggest image takes just the (unlinked) filename, and an optional width parameter set if required, otherwise a default width of 225px applies - coding done along lines of:
| image={{#if:{{{image|}}}|[[{{{image}}}|{{px|{{{width|}}}|225}}]]}} i.e. ^if defined, ^image of ^width ^defined ^or 225 default
Exampes of this template then being used:
| image = file:example.jpg | width = is shown as 225 pixels width | image = file:example.jpg | width = 150 is shown with stated 150 pixel size
The passing of such parameter values to metatemplate would of course need to be checked out, but is it an approach you wish to explore ? David Ruben Talk 22:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks pretty good to me. At least I can't think of anything else to add. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Done at least you copied with the page histories (vs just copy & pasted the text), so seemed simplest to just delete the proposal subpages (not quite the neat "move to go live" but it worked) :-) David Ruben Talk 00:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
That would be nice on the main page is a full listing of the stuff but blank so that you can copy-paste it into new articles, without having to wipe out a whole bunch of explanatory stuff. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Done David Ruben Talk 00:30, 30 June 2009 (UTC)