This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 10 |
Hi. Altaic family doesn't work. When I use "|familycolor = Altaic", This appear: "(specify language family under 'fam1')". When using "fam1", there is no problem. Can someone explain about this? Thanks. Winter Gaze ( talk) 12:33, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi folks. I disambiguate incoming links to a number of dab pages, several of which happen to be language names that also have other uses. English is an obvious example of that.
When an "ld" parameter in this infobox is populated with just the name of a language, this frequently creates links to dab pages, which should normally never be linked to, and I can't figure out a way to fix those links. The normal way to disambiguate such a link is to pipe it: [[English language|English]], for example. However, I've just tried this with a case where I need to do it (the infobox at Norwegian Sign Language, if anyone would like to look), and piping doesn't work; the article title ("Norwegian language") is displayed instead of the intended text ("Norwegian"). Is there another way to solve this problem? Thanks, -- Tkynerd ( talk) 00:32, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Is this s.t. we should get rid of? Is there any reason to use separate ld and ll parameters, rather than normal piping? About 430 articles would be affected. — kwami ( talk) 01:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
The explanation of the "ethnicity" parameter says "the name of the article for the people and the language will generally be the same". This seems wrong to me. An article on a language should discuss it as a language - relationships to other languages, structure, sounds, writing etc. An article on an ethnic group talks about where they come from and where they live, traditions, culture and so on. To me they are quite different types of article. E.g. English people and English language. We should encourage cross-linking, as with this parameter, but should not encourage articles that confuse the two subjects. Comments? Aymatth2 ( talk) 21:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Setting 'script=' to Latin or Latin alphabet now redirects to Latin script, which is generally where we want to go. (Easier than manually changing a thousand articles.) For the infobox at Latin, where we really want the alphabet, just add s.t. else like a non-breaking space, and it will not redirect. — kwami ( talk) 17:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I've noticed that someone has changed the "Total speakers" header to "Native speakers". For natural languages, this is a fair deal, but it gets us into trouble in the case of constructed languages. The only constructed language that has ever had native speakers is Esperanto (not to mention one isolated case in Klingon). In all other cases, the number would obviously be zero. Which means that in many articles, the information currently listed will have to be changed.
However, in the case of constructed languages, the number of native speakers is quite irrelevant. The only number that is kind of informative is the number of users. The term "speakers" is often used in this context as well, but it should be said that it is very hard to tell how many people can actually speak a constructed language, just because nobody has the means to determine how fluent a person really is. The term "users" would at least include those who have learned it to some degree and are able to write with the help of a dictionary.
This issue is going to cause lots of needless trouble. Would it be possible to modify the template in such way that in the case of constructed language the header says something like total users instead of native speakers? — IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 09:35, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
In some language infoboxes used, I see style "fam4=yeai", in a single row only. (see Edo language). What is the meaning of that styling? And, should it not be made clear somehow? - DePiep ( talk) 14:15, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
{{
Infobox language/family-color}}
subtemplate.{{
Infobox language/family-color/sandbox}}
to the live page {{
Infobox language/family-color}}
(full replacement). Note that this is a subpage of a subtemplate (not the main template's /sandbox).#default
to end of #switch:
-code, to keep overview (more standard way of writing). By #switch:
-documentation, this has no effect in workings.{{
Infobox language/testcases}}
. It shows that there are no differences.white
or {{{1}}}
. There were two separate default-catchings: blank input and not-found input (this could be a color name entered). The code and documentation suggested that (blank)
input would return "white", a color name would retunrn that color name (like one could use {{{1}}}
to get that background), and any other word would return that word, but not setting a color, i.e. background stays transparent. This did not work as expected. In these cases, the template always returned a non-color and so the background became transparent. The reason is that in these cases the [[:Category:...]]
text was added to the color, so returned was the text: white[[:Category:...]]
, which is not recognised as a color so ignored. The current testcases for irregular input show this.white
is to enter familycolor=unclassified
or familycolor=superfamily
(as before), and in this case, no Category is added (as before). Since there are few pages, and no articles (from main space) in the Category, few pages are involved in this non-change. -
DePiep (
talk) 16:40, 16 March 2012 (UTC)I see that if we put gibberish under 'familycolor', the error cat is triggered. However, if we put something under 'family', it is no longer triggered, even though the color remains transparent. Can we modify to catch errors like this, whenever no color is returned? — kwami ( talk) 20:58, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
family=foo nonsense
, and that should trigger the category too. (I missed this route before). Will take a look, probably origin in the main template now. -
DePiep (
talk) 21:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)/family-color
template are fed with input {{{familycolor}}}
(not {{{family}}}
). (3) If it might have to do with {{{fam1}}}
input or {{{signers|}}}{{{creator|}}}
please mention that. -
DePiep (
talk) 21:31, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
family=language-or-nonsense
is entered, the whole /family-color
check is not performed (so Category-adding will not happen, at all). This can produce the situation Kwami points to. Will be changed to promise: IF family-name ("familycolor") is not recognised (is not in the quilt), THEN the category will be added. -
DePiep (
talk) 22:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
{{
Infobox language/family-color}}
subtemplate.{{
Infobox language/family-color/sandbox}}
to the live page {{
Infobox language/family-color}}
(full replacement). Note that this is a subpage of a subtemplate (not the main template's /sandbox).pink
or #c0dde6
. If the input is not recognised, a blank is returned. Category-adding should be done elsewhere.{{
infobox language}}
and {{
infobox language family}}
use this subtemplate, and already are adjusted to perform the category-check on a single place. Documentation should be adjusted.family=any input
was entered, the category-check was not performed → unexpected missing from the category could occur (see previous thread, cmt Kwami). Now solved: whatever the family=
input, the category-check is performed.- DePiep ( talk) 23:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Not done and not likely to be done Has been solved through other edits (see below, 16 March and 18 March). - DePiep ( talk) 10:16, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Holding the proposal, too premature
| ||
---|---|---|
|
About the category: I just discovered that the main template checks for these three inputs: {{#if:{{{familycolor|}}}{{{signers|}}}{{{creator|}}}|<!--OK, one is present-->|<!--Add the cat-->[[Category:Languages without ...]]}}
.
For this reason I propose (change the sandbox): do all Category-checking in one spot, the main template. It would read like, simplified: if:family-color=white OR ({{{family-color|}}} missing AND {{{signers|}}} missing AND {{{creator|}}} missing) THEN add the Category
. Technically, all required checks can go there. -
DePiep (
talk) 15:39, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
There's a bot request here for adding ethnicity, reference, and date fields to all boxes which do not have then, and to add a ref section to all articles with boxes that do not have one. This is just to make it easier for us to overtly ref our articles, rather than just covertly ref'ing them through the SIL link as we tend to do now, but it's running into problems. Would anyone object to having this done? — kwami ( talk) 04:45, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
As code is now: the infobox puts a page in
Category:Languages with Linglist but no iso3 codes when no linglist=qrx
qrx page exists. I think this is a bit strange. First: there is no check for input iso3=
at all. Second: whether the page (at wiki) exists is not a good criteria, I'd say. Example pages:
Duit language (strange),
Marawan language (understandable). Should we not just check: linglist=qrx
(has input) and iso3=
(has no input) so in the category?
Note: I have edited the infobox wrt this category and the data21 row
[1]. I kept the checking logic, and before/after there are 309 pages in the category. -
DePiep (
talk) 15:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
iso3
-input. I have adjusted the code. Suggestion to separate provisional dialect code not yet implemented. -
DePiep (
talk) 16:15, 27 March 2012 (UTC)Re this reversal
[2]. So the text (date missing) is added when there is, eh, no date entered (for the speakers numbers estimation). I think that is a note to editors, as is the added
Category:Language articles with undated speaker data (with 1,591 pages). So it is a maintenance/cleanup thing.
Of course, when there is no date entered, no date is shown. The note is trivial. As a warning it does not add anything, because if a reader sees no date -- well, the figure is undated, not wrong dated. In general, we do not add "incomplete" text to an article do we? If any such note is to be in mainspace, we should use
when? (or maybe
year needed,
time needed,
date missing). And when the whole reference wrt speakers is missing, there is
citation needed. These are non-content notes btw, they are not part of the encyclopedia. -
DePiep (
talk) 07:29, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
About number of speakers (or signers). The temlate did this: When the date of estimation was older than 30 years, the text shown for likewise input would change:
These pages with "unknown" are added to the maintenance
Category:Language articles with old speaker data (now 339 pages).
I have removed this separation
[3]. Thxts now are the same for both situations (namely, as in the fist example). The reason is that declaring the figure "unknown" is
WP:OR. Adding to this, the 30-year limit is arbitrary. The category adding is not changed. -
DePiep (
talk) 12:49, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
DePiep, could you add that code for catching unsupported parameters? — kwami ( talk) 04:13, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
state
only. Any more? And, do you want empty usage (state=
) catched too? -
DePiep (
talk) 07:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Given that people have been using 'state' for years, we should probably have it accept either 'states' or 'state'. (I tried, but it didn't work right. Could do it with parser statements, but I suspect there's a more straightforward way.) There were only two articles this time, but that's because I did a sweep last year and cleaned up scores of them. When you & I are gone, people will keep doing this, because it's a very natural mistake to make.
Also, if we have 'altname' w/o 'nativename', there shouldn't be a blank space, so either 'altname' or 'nativename' should go in the second line, and the line break only occur if both are used. (This is another common mistake, because people use the lang family box as the basis for a language article, and that has 'altname' rather than 'nativename'. Also, eventually we might want to use 'nativename' for the native name, and otherwise use 'altname', so the box should accept both equally. — kwami ( talk) 08:14, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Ah, that's how you do it! I'll play around with the other one. — kwami ( talk) 08:37, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Used to be that if you wanted, you could have a single lc/ld param, w no iso3, and it would display as code + comment (not good form; iso3comment would be better for that). But now there's a spurious line break before it. — kwami ( talk) 11:54, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Any comments on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons#Reconstruct "Flag Icons in Infoboxes" Guideline? — kwami ( talk) 12:44, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Re:
this self-deletion here:
The
Template:Infobox language/doc documentation page is not protected (what is the misunderstanding?). Anyone can add the interwiki link [[:ko:Template:언어 정보]]
nicely in the list of iws in that /doc. -
DePiep (
talk) 09:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I start this as a spin-off of a more specific debate at
Talk:Norwegian language that I just started. It occurs to me that the |states
parameter is being used too liberally. I think we need some basic criteria to be fulfilled, such as:
I.e. it is not enough that ~50 000 persons of nationality X speaking Xish at any given time lives as expats in country Y where Yish is traditionally the only language, because there exist no traditions for Xish here. Xs have not likely established any communities in country Y, and the offspring of Xs that choose to settle permantly will probably barely have any knowledge of Xish left a couple of generations down; they'll all be speaking Yish as their native tongue.
A concrete example is Swedish, where the infobox currently lists the following countries:
Sweden (9.4 million) Finland (290,000) USA (70,000) Spain (40,000) United Kingdom (30,000) Canada (20,000) Ukraine (10,000)
Sweden is obvious, Finland is fine when you know some details about the country. The rest of the countries, on the other hand, I suspect is nothing but counting expats and similar people that have no real relevance to Swedish being "spoken" somewhere, not in a meaningful sense of the word, anyway. Njardarlogar ( talk) 18:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
I understand your concern, but I'm not sure the distinction is as clear (and desirable) as it appears on first glance. For example, why should we list the USA for Spanish but not for Swedish? sephia karta | dimmi 15:14, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
@sephia: Not sure whether your second comment was meant to contradict that the Swedish population in the USA dates back to at least the 19th century; but if not, the question then becomes: how many of these speak Swedish at a native level? And how many of them use it in their everyday life (voice communication abroad not counting)? Given that Swedish has ~ 9 million native speakers living in Sweden, it would seem irrelevant to mention 10 speakers in LA, 2 in NY, and 50 more spread out thinly over the rest of the country; the only ones in the U.S. to have had the language passed down over generations. I'd wager that a lot of the 70,000 figure stems from first and second generation immigrants, and that those of older generations do not speak Swedish to a degree that is worth mentioning, given the size of the language.
In my opinion, for a language to be listed as being spoken somewhere, then either:
Njardarlogar ( talk) 10:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Why doesn't this template have ISO 639-6? Some variants of languages has the code, it's impossible to show the code through this template. I think ISO 639-6 has to be added to this template. -- Yes0song ( talk) 16:16, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
ISO 639-6 includes codes of living languages/variants. For example, Jeju dialect of Korean or Jeju language (of course, it's a living language/dialect) has two ISO 639-6 codes: "cejm" (as Chejumal) and "chjm" (as Chejumal Spoken). Chejumal is the McCune-Reischauer spelling for Jejumal ( Revised Romanization of Korean. Hangeul: 제주말) literally meaning "Jeju speech" (i.e. Jeju language/dialect). I want to add the codes to the Jeju dialect article. -- Yes0song ( talk) 07:18, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add support for a 4th & 5th LingList code and name. They are currently being used by Hittite language, Oscan language, Gaulish, and Aramaic, but do not display. — kwami ( talk) 00:56, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
Taivo, SIL is not the sole maintainer of ISO codes. They refer the reader to Linguist List themselves in several cases. They are spinning off ISO maintenance to Linguist List for all languages extinct by 1950. We don't say the ISO code is not valid, we say that it is maintained by Linguist List, which is correct according to both SIL and LL. BTW, I made the coding changes and started implementing it several months ago; I was just waiting for the full list from SIL. There are other ways we could handle this to make it more obvious. What I suggest is that we list the ISO code as it was, linking to the SIL page, and link the 'maintained by Linguist List' notice to the LL page that we link to now:
or maybe to save space. Would that work for you? A separate LL listing would IMO be best left for when LL has a separate language code, or an "individual use" ISO-like code (qxx series) that isn't actually ISO. — kwami ( talk) 20:48, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Here is a direct quote from SIL's official ISO 639-3 home page: "SIL International has been designated as the ISO 639-3/RA for the purpose of processing requests for alpha-3 language codes comprising the International Standard, Codes for the representation of names of languages - Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of languages." ( [7]. Ethnologue and LinguistList are mentioned only as they served as original sources for the languages that needed codes, not as "cooperating partners" or in any sense as co-maintainers of the list. Sole authority for the codes rests with the SIL ISO 639-3 authority. That's the only relationship that the ISO 639-3 authority has with either Ethnologue or LinguistList. Both of those latter groups get their codes from the ISO 639-3 authority, not the other way around now. -- Taivo ( talk) 22:51, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
I think that maybe there could be a page listing the LinguistList codes, but I am not sure at all that they belong in the language info boxes. There should never be any conflation of the official ISO codes and any other code-lists, however. --
Evertype·
✆ 13:31, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
|
{{
edit protected}}
is not required for edits to unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages. And it looks like everyone here is autoconfirmed. Feel free to make the edit yourself if you have consensus.
Anomie
⚔ 21:04, 1 August 2012 (UTC)Taivo, I removed support for the LL note in the ISO field. Now adding support for more than 3 links in the LL field. — kwami ( talk) 23:39, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
8-Nov-2012: To avoid wp:exceeded template limits, I have changed the template to extract the date's year (such as "2006"), to compare < 30, by using function {padleft:...} rather than Template:Str_number/trim. The tactic is to extract the first 4 characters of the date, and check for #iferror on expression #expr, by using:
The prior use of Template:Str_number/trim could not extract the 4-digit year when followed by a reftag footnote ("<ref>...</ref>"), which had caused a year such as "2010" to appear as "20102010201" and then wp:exceeded template limits for the expansion depth of 41/40 levels. - Wikid77 ( talk) 01:06, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi I would like to add another link to the Catalan wikipedia there are to templates to with this but I doint want to remove the other one I would like to add them both please 178.239.50.146 ( talk) 20:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Need to update tracking cats for E17. I can't do it right now. — kwami ( talk) 20:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Currently the template has a tracking category added this way:
{{#if:{{{caption|}}}{{{map_caption|}}}{{{rank|}}}{{{country|}}}{{{regions|}}}{{{status|}}}{{{SIL|}}}{{{sil|}}}{{{silname|}}}{{{protolanguage|}}}{{{protoname|}}}{{{child1|}}}{{{child2|}}}{{{children|}}}{{{iso5|}}}|[[Category:Language articles with unsupported infobox fields]]|}}
for
Category:Language articles with unsupported infobox fields.
So when one of the listed parameters is used (has input), it is triggered. After checking the reported pages (for this unused input) it could be deleted. -
DePiep (
talk) 09:24, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
There's a way of detecting any unsupported parameter, discussed here. No time to figure out how to code it right now. — kwami ( talk) 06:06, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
this item
should be displayed in the infobox language.
The idea went to me after recognizing this:
Xhosa wiki, for example.
Task could be done by autoexec user, only. -- Ossip Groth ( talk) 15:23, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
This infobox has suddenly started to produce a reference to AIATSIS with a link to the Australian Indigenous Languages Database. I noticed because it has created cite errors on pages that don't already have a reference template. I can't find any recent change that would cause it to suddenly appear now but the code is
| label29 = [[Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies|AIATSIS]]{{#tag:ref|{{AIATSIS|{{{aiatsis|}}}|{{{aiatsisname|{{{name}}}}}}|{{{aiatsis2|}}}}}|name="AIATSIS"}} | data29 = {{#if:{{{aiatsis|}}}|<tt>[http://austlang.aiatsis.gov.au/main.php?code={{{aiatsis}}} {{{aiatsis}}}]</tt>{{#if:{{{aiatsisname|}}}| {{{aiatsisname}}}}} }}{{#if:{{{aiatsis2|}}}|, <tt>[http://austlang.aiatsis.gov.au/main.php?code={{{aiatsis2}}} {{{aiatsis2}}}]</tt>{{#if:{{{aiatsis2name|}}}| {{{aiatsis2name}}}}} }}{{#if:{{{aiatsis3|}}}|, <tt>[http://austlang.aiatsis.gov.au/main.php?code={{{aiatsis3}}} {{{aiatsis3}}}]</tt>{{#if:{{{aiatsis3name|}}}| {{{aiatsis3name}}}}} }}
I don't think this reference should be showing up on every page the infobox is on, it doesn't seem to have any relevance to Hainanese for example, but I don't know enough about coding or languages to tell if its working as it should or if it needs to be changed. Can someone else take a look. Sarahj2107 ( talk) 10:29, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I have discovered a strange thing in editing Romani language article.
If ld1 ... ld5 are with links, the references for e17 are not created correctly. If they are just as text (without link), they are displayed without a link in the infobox.
See /info/en/?search=User:Running/Romani_langbox - "Balkan Romani" is without link, the rest is with links.
Which is more "correct"?
(And now, I see that only 3 references are generated. Also not sure why.)
---
Ɍưɳŋınɢ 02:46, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Uralic in {{
Infobox language/family-color}} to use lime
. There's not enough contrast against black text w/ limegreen
.
—
Lfdder (
talk) 11:56, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
In the source code, there are three start tags <includeonly>, but only two end tags </includeonly>. But it seems no articles are affected by this bug. Do we need to fix it? Chmarkine ( talk) 03:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I tried adding Visual Editor support for the new fields, but couldn't save. I can't see the error. Here's the text:
Extended content
|
---|
"glotto": { "label": "Glottolog", "description": "The Glottolog code for the language", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name", "description": "The name to appear in the info box and in the Glottolog reference footnote, if the 'name' parameter is not satisfactory", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glotto2": { "label": "Glottolog 2", "description": "An additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname2": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name 2", "description": "A name for the additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glotto3": { "label": "Glottolog 3", "description": "An additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname3": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name 3", "description": "A name for the additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glotto4": { "label": "Glottolog 4", "description": "An additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname4": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name 4", "description": "A name for the additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glotto5": { "label": "Glottolog 5", "description": "An additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname5": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name 5", "description": "A name for the additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false},
"notice": { "label": "Font Notice", "description": "Set to 'IPA' or 'ipa' to display a notice that the article contains special IPA phonetic symbols, or to 'Indic' to display a notice that the article contains an Indic script", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false} "notice2": { "label": "Second Font Notice", "description": "Set to 'IPA' or 'ipa' or 'Indic', as above", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false} |
— kwami ( talk) 21:23, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Because they generate named references, if there is more than one box on a page, the glottolog parameter needs to have a different number (glotto, glotto2, etc.) in each box. Otherwise they'll all cross-link as a single ref per page. So currently we can only have 5 glottolog codes per article, not just per box. Since there aren't many articles that need more than this (I can only think of Malay creoles), perhaps we can add a manual field to support the additional boxes. — kwami ( talk) 04:17, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
{{
reflist}}
. How about just making the code an external link, as is done for |iso3=
and |linglist=
?
Kanguole 00:05, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Kwami asked to prevent templates &tc. showing up in maintenance categories. [8]. At least three (sub)templates are working with this category:
I simplified by using {{ main other}} for all maintenance categories in these three templates. Some 50 checks are performed, and that is {{infobox language}} alone. No actual checks (the logic) are changed, no category name has changed. Only whether a page is categorised or not has changed. Unfortunately, for now there is no test-option for non-mainspace pages (draft, sandbox).
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 10 |
Hi. Altaic family doesn't work. When I use "|familycolor = Altaic", This appear: "(specify language family under 'fam1')". When using "fam1", there is no problem. Can someone explain about this? Thanks. Winter Gaze ( talk) 12:33, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi folks. I disambiguate incoming links to a number of dab pages, several of which happen to be language names that also have other uses. English is an obvious example of that.
When an "ld" parameter in this infobox is populated with just the name of a language, this frequently creates links to dab pages, which should normally never be linked to, and I can't figure out a way to fix those links. The normal way to disambiguate such a link is to pipe it: [[English language|English]], for example. However, I've just tried this with a case where I need to do it (the infobox at Norwegian Sign Language, if anyone would like to look), and piping doesn't work; the article title ("Norwegian language") is displayed instead of the intended text ("Norwegian"). Is there another way to solve this problem? Thanks, -- Tkynerd ( talk) 00:32, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Is this s.t. we should get rid of? Is there any reason to use separate ld and ll parameters, rather than normal piping? About 430 articles would be affected. — kwami ( talk) 01:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
The explanation of the "ethnicity" parameter says "the name of the article for the people and the language will generally be the same". This seems wrong to me. An article on a language should discuss it as a language - relationships to other languages, structure, sounds, writing etc. An article on an ethnic group talks about where they come from and where they live, traditions, culture and so on. To me they are quite different types of article. E.g. English people and English language. We should encourage cross-linking, as with this parameter, but should not encourage articles that confuse the two subjects. Comments? Aymatth2 ( talk) 21:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Setting 'script=' to Latin or Latin alphabet now redirects to Latin script, which is generally where we want to go. (Easier than manually changing a thousand articles.) For the infobox at Latin, where we really want the alphabet, just add s.t. else like a non-breaking space, and it will not redirect. — kwami ( talk) 17:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I've noticed that someone has changed the "Total speakers" header to "Native speakers". For natural languages, this is a fair deal, but it gets us into trouble in the case of constructed languages. The only constructed language that has ever had native speakers is Esperanto (not to mention one isolated case in Klingon). In all other cases, the number would obviously be zero. Which means that in many articles, the information currently listed will have to be changed.
However, in the case of constructed languages, the number of native speakers is quite irrelevant. The only number that is kind of informative is the number of users. The term "speakers" is often used in this context as well, but it should be said that it is very hard to tell how many people can actually speak a constructed language, just because nobody has the means to determine how fluent a person really is. The term "users" would at least include those who have learned it to some degree and are able to write with the help of a dictionary.
This issue is going to cause lots of needless trouble. Would it be possible to modify the template in such way that in the case of constructed language the header says something like total users instead of native speakers? — IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 09:35, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
In some language infoboxes used, I see style "fam4=yeai", in a single row only. (see Edo language). What is the meaning of that styling? And, should it not be made clear somehow? - DePiep ( talk) 14:15, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
{{
Infobox language/family-color}}
subtemplate.{{
Infobox language/family-color/sandbox}}
to the live page {{
Infobox language/family-color}}
(full replacement). Note that this is a subpage of a subtemplate (not the main template's /sandbox).#default
to end of #switch:
-code, to keep overview (more standard way of writing). By #switch:
-documentation, this has no effect in workings.{{
Infobox language/testcases}}
. It shows that there are no differences.white
or {{{1}}}
. There were two separate default-catchings: blank input and not-found input (this could be a color name entered). The code and documentation suggested that (blank)
input would return "white", a color name would retunrn that color name (like one could use {{{1}}}
to get that background), and any other word would return that word, but not setting a color, i.e. background stays transparent. This did not work as expected. In these cases, the template always returned a non-color and so the background became transparent. The reason is that in these cases the [[:Category:...]]
text was added to the color, so returned was the text: white[[:Category:...]]
, which is not recognised as a color so ignored. The current testcases for irregular input show this.white
is to enter familycolor=unclassified
or familycolor=superfamily
(as before), and in this case, no Category is added (as before). Since there are few pages, and no articles (from main space) in the Category, few pages are involved in this non-change. -
DePiep (
talk) 16:40, 16 March 2012 (UTC)I see that if we put gibberish under 'familycolor', the error cat is triggered. However, if we put something under 'family', it is no longer triggered, even though the color remains transparent. Can we modify to catch errors like this, whenever no color is returned? — kwami ( talk) 20:58, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
family=foo nonsense
, and that should trigger the category too. (I missed this route before). Will take a look, probably origin in the main template now. -
DePiep (
talk) 21:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)/family-color
template are fed with input {{{familycolor}}}
(not {{{family}}}
). (3) If it might have to do with {{{fam1}}}
input or {{{signers|}}}{{{creator|}}}
please mention that. -
DePiep (
talk) 21:31, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
family=language-or-nonsense
is entered, the whole /family-color
check is not performed (so Category-adding will not happen, at all). This can produce the situation Kwami points to. Will be changed to promise: IF family-name ("familycolor") is not recognised (is not in the quilt), THEN the category will be added. -
DePiep (
talk) 22:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
{{
Infobox language/family-color}}
subtemplate.{{
Infobox language/family-color/sandbox}}
to the live page {{
Infobox language/family-color}}
(full replacement). Note that this is a subpage of a subtemplate (not the main template's /sandbox).pink
or #c0dde6
. If the input is not recognised, a blank is returned. Category-adding should be done elsewhere.{{
infobox language}}
and {{
infobox language family}}
use this subtemplate, and already are adjusted to perform the category-check on a single place. Documentation should be adjusted.family=any input
was entered, the category-check was not performed → unexpected missing from the category could occur (see previous thread, cmt Kwami). Now solved: whatever the family=
input, the category-check is performed.- DePiep ( talk) 23:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
Not done and not likely to be done Has been solved through other edits (see below, 16 March and 18 March). - DePiep ( talk) 10:16, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Holding the proposal, too premature
| ||
---|---|---|
|
About the category: I just discovered that the main template checks for these three inputs: {{#if:{{{familycolor|}}}{{{signers|}}}{{{creator|}}}|<!--OK, one is present-->|<!--Add the cat-->[[Category:Languages without ...]]}}
.
For this reason I propose (change the sandbox): do all Category-checking in one spot, the main template. It would read like, simplified: if:family-color=white OR ({{{family-color|}}} missing AND {{{signers|}}} missing AND {{{creator|}}} missing) THEN add the Category
. Technically, all required checks can go there. -
DePiep (
talk) 15:39, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
There's a bot request here for adding ethnicity, reference, and date fields to all boxes which do not have then, and to add a ref section to all articles with boxes that do not have one. This is just to make it easier for us to overtly ref our articles, rather than just covertly ref'ing them through the SIL link as we tend to do now, but it's running into problems. Would anyone object to having this done? — kwami ( talk) 04:45, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
As code is now: the infobox puts a page in
Category:Languages with Linglist but no iso3 codes when no linglist=qrx
qrx page exists. I think this is a bit strange. First: there is no check for input iso3=
at all. Second: whether the page (at wiki) exists is not a good criteria, I'd say. Example pages:
Duit language (strange),
Marawan language (understandable). Should we not just check: linglist=qrx
(has input) and iso3=
(has no input) so in the category?
Note: I have edited the infobox wrt this category and the data21 row
[1]. I kept the checking logic, and before/after there are 309 pages in the category. -
DePiep (
talk) 15:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
iso3
-input. I have adjusted the code. Suggestion to separate provisional dialect code not yet implemented. -
DePiep (
talk) 16:15, 27 March 2012 (UTC)Re this reversal
[2]. So the text (date missing) is added when there is, eh, no date entered (for the speakers numbers estimation). I think that is a note to editors, as is the added
Category:Language articles with undated speaker data (with 1,591 pages). So it is a maintenance/cleanup thing.
Of course, when there is no date entered, no date is shown. The note is trivial. As a warning it does not add anything, because if a reader sees no date -- well, the figure is undated, not wrong dated. In general, we do not add "incomplete" text to an article do we? If any such note is to be in mainspace, we should use
when? (or maybe
year needed,
time needed,
date missing). And when the whole reference wrt speakers is missing, there is
citation needed. These are non-content notes btw, they are not part of the encyclopedia. -
DePiep (
talk) 07:29, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
About number of speakers (or signers). The temlate did this: When the date of estimation was older than 30 years, the text shown for likewise input would change:
These pages with "unknown" are added to the maintenance
Category:Language articles with old speaker data (now 339 pages).
I have removed this separation
[3]. Thxts now are the same for both situations (namely, as in the fist example). The reason is that declaring the figure "unknown" is
WP:OR. Adding to this, the 30-year limit is arbitrary. The category adding is not changed. -
DePiep (
talk) 12:49, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
DePiep, could you add that code for catching unsupported parameters? — kwami ( talk) 04:13, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
state
only. Any more? And, do you want empty usage (state=
) catched too? -
DePiep (
talk) 07:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Given that people have been using 'state' for years, we should probably have it accept either 'states' or 'state'. (I tried, but it didn't work right. Could do it with parser statements, but I suspect there's a more straightforward way.) There were only two articles this time, but that's because I did a sweep last year and cleaned up scores of them. When you & I are gone, people will keep doing this, because it's a very natural mistake to make.
Also, if we have 'altname' w/o 'nativename', there shouldn't be a blank space, so either 'altname' or 'nativename' should go in the second line, and the line break only occur if both are used. (This is another common mistake, because people use the lang family box as the basis for a language article, and that has 'altname' rather than 'nativename'. Also, eventually we might want to use 'nativename' for the native name, and otherwise use 'altname', so the box should accept both equally. — kwami ( talk) 08:14, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Ah, that's how you do it! I'll play around with the other one. — kwami ( talk) 08:37, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Used to be that if you wanted, you could have a single lc/ld param, w no iso3, and it would display as code + comment (not good form; iso3comment would be better for that). But now there's a spurious line break before it. — kwami ( talk) 11:54, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Any comments on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons#Reconstruct "Flag Icons in Infoboxes" Guideline? — kwami ( talk) 12:44, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Re:
this self-deletion here:
The
Template:Infobox language/doc documentation page is not protected (what is the misunderstanding?). Anyone can add the interwiki link [[:ko:Template:언어 정보]]
nicely in the list of iws in that /doc. -
DePiep (
talk) 09:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I start this as a spin-off of a more specific debate at
Talk:Norwegian language that I just started. It occurs to me that the |states
parameter is being used too liberally. I think we need some basic criteria to be fulfilled, such as:
I.e. it is not enough that ~50 000 persons of nationality X speaking Xish at any given time lives as expats in country Y where Yish is traditionally the only language, because there exist no traditions for Xish here. Xs have not likely established any communities in country Y, and the offspring of Xs that choose to settle permantly will probably barely have any knowledge of Xish left a couple of generations down; they'll all be speaking Yish as their native tongue.
A concrete example is Swedish, where the infobox currently lists the following countries:
Sweden (9.4 million) Finland (290,000) USA (70,000) Spain (40,000) United Kingdom (30,000) Canada (20,000) Ukraine (10,000)
Sweden is obvious, Finland is fine when you know some details about the country. The rest of the countries, on the other hand, I suspect is nothing but counting expats and similar people that have no real relevance to Swedish being "spoken" somewhere, not in a meaningful sense of the word, anyway. Njardarlogar ( talk) 18:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
I understand your concern, but I'm not sure the distinction is as clear (and desirable) as it appears on first glance. For example, why should we list the USA for Spanish but not for Swedish? sephia karta | dimmi 15:14, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
@sephia: Not sure whether your second comment was meant to contradict that the Swedish population in the USA dates back to at least the 19th century; but if not, the question then becomes: how many of these speak Swedish at a native level? And how many of them use it in their everyday life (voice communication abroad not counting)? Given that Swedish has ~ 9 million native speakers living in Sweden, it would seem irrelevant to mention 10 speakers in LA, 2 in NY, and 50 more spread out thinly over the rest of the country; the only ones in the U.S. to have had the language passed down over generations. I'd wager that a lot of the 70,000 figure stems from first and second generation immigrants, and that those of older generations do not speak Swedish to a degree that is worth mentioning, given the size of the language.
In my opinion, for a language to be listed as being spoken somewhere, then either:
Njardarlogar ( talk) 10:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Why doesn't this template have ISO 639-6? Some variants of languages has the code, it's impossible to show the code through this template. I think ISO 639-6 has to be added to this template. -- Yes0song ( talk) 16:16, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
ISO 639-6 includes codes of living languages/variants. For example, Jeju dialect of Korean or Jeju language (of course, it's a living language/dialect) has two ISO 639-6 codes: "cejm" (as Chejumal) and "chjm" (as Chejumal Spoken). Chejumal is the McCune-Reischauer spelling for Jejumal ( Revised Romanization of Korean. Hangeul: 제주말) literally meaning "Jeju speech" (i.e. Jeju language/dialect). I want to add the codes to the Jeju dialect article. -- Yes0song ( talk) 07:18, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add support for a 4th & 5th LingList code and name. They are currently being used by Hittite language, Oscan language, Gaulish, and Aramaic, but do not display. — kwami ( talk) 00:56, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
Taivo, SIL is not the sole maintainer of ISO codes. They refer the reader to Linguist List themselves in several cases. They are spinning off ISO maintenance to Linguist List for all languages extinct by 1950. We don't say the ISO code is not valid, we say that it is maintained by Linguist List, which is correct according to both SIL and LL. BTW, I made the coding changes and started implementing it several months ago; I was just waiting for the full list from SIL. There are other ways we could handle this to make it more obvious. What I suggest is that we list the ISO code as it was, linking to the SIL page, and link the 'maintained by Linguist List' notice to the LL page that we link to now:
or maybe to save space. Would that work for you? A separate LL listing would IMO be best left for when LL has a separate language code, or an "individual use" ISO-like code (qxx series) that isn't actually ISO. — kwami ( talk) 20:48, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Here is a direct quote from SIL's official ISO 639-3 home page: "SIL International has been designated as the ISO 639-3/RA for the purpose of processing requests for alpha-3 language codes comprising the International Standard, Codes for the representation of names of languages - Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of languages." ( [7]. Ethnologue and LinguistList are mentioned only as they served as original sources for the languages that needed codes, not as "cooperating partners" or in any sense as co-maintainers of the list. Sole authority for the codes rests with the SIL ISO 639-3 authority. That's the only relationship that the ISO 639-3 authority has with either Ethnologue or LinguistList. Both of those latter groups get their codes from the ISO 639-3 authority, not the other way around now. -- Taivo ( talk) 22:51, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
I think that maybe there could be a page listing the LinguistList codes, but I am not sure at all that they belong in the language info boxes. There should never be any conflation of the official ISO codes and any other code-lists, however. --
Evertype·
✆ 13:31, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
|
{{
edit protected}}
is not required for edits to unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages. And it looks like everyone here is autoconfirmed. Feel free to make the edit yourself if you have consensus.
Anomie
⚔ 21:04, 1 August 2012 (UTC)Taivo, I removed support for the LL note in the ISO field. Now adding support for more than 3 links in the LL field. — kwami ( talk) 23:39, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
8-Nov-2012: To avoid wp:exceeded template limits, I have changed the template to extract the date's year (such as "2006"), to compare < 30, by using function {padleft:...} rather than Template:Str_number/trim. The tactic is to extract the first 4 characters of the date, and check for #iferror on expression #expr, by using:
The prior use of Template:Str_number/trim could not extract the 4-digit year when followed by a reftag footnote ("<ref>...</ref>"), which had caused a year such as "2010" to appear as "20102010201" and then wp:exceeded template limits for the expansion depth of 41/40 levels. - Wikid77 ( talk) 01:06, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi I would like to add another link to the Catalan wikipedia there are to templates to with this but I doint want to remove the other one I would like to add them both please 178.239.50.146 ( talk) 20:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Need to update tracking cats for E17. I can't do it right now. — kwami ( talk) 20:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Currently the template has a tracking category added this way:
{{#if:{{{caption|}}}{{{map_caption|}}}{{{rank|}}}{{{country|}}}{{{regions|}}}{{{status|}}}{{{SIL|}}}{{{sil|}}}{{{silname|}}}{{{protolanguage|}}}{{{protoname|}}}{{{child1|}}}{{{child2|}}}{{{children|}}}{{{iso5|}}}|[[Category:Language articles with unsupported infobox fields]]|}}
for
Category:Language articles with unsupported infobox fields.
So when one of the listed parameters is used (has input), it is triggered. After checking the reported pages (for this unused input) it could be deleted. -
DePiep (
talk) 09:24, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
There's a way of detecting any unsupported parameter, discussed here. No time to figure out how to code it right now. — kwami ( talk) 06:06, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
this item
should be displayed in the infobox language.
The idea went to me after recognizing this:
Xhosa wiki, for example.
Task could be done by autoexec user, only. -- Ossip Groth ( talk) 15:23, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
This infobox has suddenly started to produce a reference to AIATSIS with a link to the Australian Indigenous Languages Database. I noticed because it has created cite errors on pages that don't already have a reference template. I can't find any recent change that would cause it to suddenly appear now but the code is
| label29 = [[Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies|AIATSIS]]{{#tag:ref|{{AIATSIS|{{{aiatsis|}}}|{{{aiatsisname|{{{name}}}}}}|{{{aiatsis2|}}}}}|name="AIATSIS"}} | data29 = {{#if:{{{aiatsis|}}}|<tt>[http://austlang.aiatsis.gov.au/main.php?code={{{aiatsis}}} {{{aiatsis}}}]</tt>{{#if:{{{aiatsisname|}}}| {{{aiatsisname}}}}} }}{{#if:{{{aiatsis2|}}}|, <tt>[http://austlang.aiatsis.gov.au/main.php?code={{{aiatsis2}}} {{{aiatsis2}}}]</tt>{{#if:{{{aiatsis2name|}}}| {{{aiatsis2name}}}}} }}{{#if:{{{aiatsis3|}}}|, <tt>[http://austlang.aiatsis.gov.au/main.php?code={{{aiatsis3}}} {{{aiatsis3}}}]</tt>{{#if:{{{aiatsis3name|}}}| {{{aiatsis3name}}}}} }}
I don't think this reference should be showing up on every page the infobox is on, it doesn't seem to have any relevance to Hainanese for example, but I don't know enough about coding or languages to tell if its working as it should or if it needs to be changed. Can someone else take a look. Sarahj2107 ( talk) 10:29, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I have discovered a strange thing in editing Romani language article.
If ld1 ... ld5 are with links, the references for e17 are not created correctly. If they are just as text (without link), they are displayed without a link in the infobox.
See /info/en/?search=User:Running/Romani_langbox - "Balkan Romani" is without link, the rest is with links.
Which is more "correct"?
(And now, I see that only 3 references are generated. Also not sure why.)
---
Ɍưɳŋınɢ 02:46, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Uralic in {{
Infobox language/family-color}} to use lime
. There's not enough contrast against black text w/ limegreen
.
—
Lfdder (
talk) 11:56, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
In the source code, there are three start tags <includeonly>, but only two end tags </includeonly>. But it seems no articles are affected by this bug. Do we need to fix it? Chmarkine ( talk) 03:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I tried adding Visual Editor support for the new fields, but couldn't save. I can't see the error. Here's the text:
Extended content
|
---|
"glotto": { "label": "Glottolog", "description": "The Glottolog code for the language", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name", "description": "The name to appear in the info box and in the Glottolog reference footnote, if the 'name' parameter is not satisfactory", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glotto2": { "label": "Glottolog 2", "description": "An additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname2": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name 2", "description": "A name for the additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glotto3": { "label": "Glottolog 3", "description": "An additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname3": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name 3", "description": "A name for the additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glotto4": { "label": "Glottolog 4", "description": "An additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname4": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name 4", "description": "A name for the additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glotto5": { "label": "Glottolog 5", "description": "An additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false}, "glottoname5": { "label": "Glottolog Reference Name 5", "description": "A name for the additional Glottolog code", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false},
"notice": { "label": "Font Notice", "description": "Set to 'IPA' or 'ipa' to display a notice that the article contains special IPA phonetic symbols, or to 'Indic' to display a notice that the article contains an Indic script", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false} "notice2": { "label": "Second Font Notice", "description": "Set to 'IPA' or 'ipa' or 'Indic', as above", "type": "string", "default": "", "required": false} |
— kwami ( talk) 21:23, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Because they generate named references, if there is more than one box on a page, the glottolog parameter needs to have a different number (glotto, glotto2, etc.) in each box. Otherwise they'll all cross-link as a single ref per page. So currently we can only have 5 glottolog codes per article, not just per box. Since there aren't many articles that need more than this (I can only think of Malay creoles), perhaps we can add a manual field to support the additional boxes. — kwami ( talk) 04:17, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
{{
reflist}}
. How about just making the code an external link, as is done for |iso3=
and |linglist=
?
Kanguole 00:05, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Kwami asked to prevent templates &tc. showing up in maintenance categories. [8]. At least three (sub)templates are working with this category:
I simplified by using {{ main other}} for all maintenance categories in these three templates. Some 50 checks are performed, and that is {{infobox language}} alone. No actual checks (the logic) are changed, no category name has changed. Only whether a page is categorised or not has changed. Unfortunately, for now there is no test-option for non-mainspace pages (draft, sandbox).