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Hi, I hope this will be useful. Dont hesitate to improve this template. Have a look at David Beckham, Vincent Kompany or Mbo Mpenza for examples. Julien Tuerlinckx 12:45, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
It is time to add info in the box since only few players already have the infobox in their articles. I suggest to add the following:
What else? Julien Tuerlinckx 12:34, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Something else: Should we count the current season games played by a player in the Professional clubs part since it would be generally updated weekly which is quite boring isn't it? Another annoying thing is: what stats should be displayed in the infobox? For the number of matches played, should it be the number of league matches (as it is currently) or the number of official matches with the club (i.e. taking into account domestic and european cup matches), or both? How could we organize this. I also ask the question because i havent got much knowledge in template editing and on its capabilities. Thanx, Julien Tuerlinckx 15:20, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I think a section for anything a player has won (both club and individual honours) would be good. CTOAGN 16:58, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Julien, sorry to revert your changes, but please b4 doing something that critical put it here.
I don't think it is necessary to add that much information to the infobox. We have retired players that don't play in any "cups" or "teams" right now and the box looks positively ugly without that information. Besides, with close to 50 pages using the box, going back and fixing them all is a long task.
Let's discuss here.
-- Sebastian Kessel Talk 15:04, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I was browsing through players article and when I remembered the article about
Thierry Henry used a table with the detailed selections and goals (the repartition between cup, champ and contiental matches). I think this is the way it should be done, with the infobox summarizing the caps(goals) as it is since the beginning, as sebastian said.
Another thing i was worried about is, as you say, that we would have to change every week the caps(goals) for every player. That's why I added a update field in the box. i think we should keep this as it permits us to update the ciphers when we want to while the ciphers will remain correct. I let you add the update field (needed for both national and team caps(goals))...
Julien Tuerlinckx 15:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Note also that the Thierry Henry article separates each season which is to me a good thing (since it would have been too long to go in the infobox).
Julien Tuerlinckx
15:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
When i began this infobox, my goal was also to use it to create a manager infobox. I think we just need to add a section (within the infobox) with a title like managed clubs or something. if someone has the time to do it... Julien Tuerlinckx 15:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
| manageryears = | managerclubs = , and fill it if you want to. You can see an example at Franky Vercauteren or Georges Leekens. Julien Tuerlinckx 17:55, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
I've commented out the ref/note templates as they break the nunbering on pages that already use ref and note. CTOAGN 19:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, but I think we will need the notes however, but not neccessarily in the form of ref/note (even if it's only used by Vincent Kompany at the time). That's all I found when I decided to add the update dates. Any suggestion about how to keep the info in the box? Thanx, Julien Tuerlinckx 19:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi. Maybe there's too much information on this infobox? I don't know if it has to/should be this...complex. For instance, keeping an account of how many goals a player scored for each club and (when applicable) the national team. This requires constant updating (except for retired players), and the information is sometimes not-that-easy to come by. As a result, there are infoboxes out there filled with question marks, or with entire sections simply left blank. It might also be why the infobox was not inserted in the biographic articles of some rather conspicuous players (e.g. Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Samuel Eto'o, Frank Lampard — this last one using a different infobox). Maybe there's no need for this much information on the infobox? Regards, Redux 05:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Talking about overkill, the "place of birth" is somewhat irrelevant as I see it - fore example Brian Laudrup was born in Vienna (Austria) as his father was playing professionally there at the time but that doesn't tell you anything about him as a football player. I mean - the thing of interest is which country a player represents internationally, not the exact place of birth which is already taken care of in the main article. I know there are other facts covered in the article, like time of birth, but info on the persons age (for quickly determining "old" or young up-coming players) is more relevant than where he is born, as I see it. Poulsen 11:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Based on the prevailing standard at Wikipedia:Infobox_templates#People it would seem that the correct name for this template would be Infobox football player. Is it likely to prove overly ardous to make that change? It would also be useful to include the infobox at Wikipedia:Infobox as well. Veila 08:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Most biographical infoboxes that I've looked at seem to set font-size at 95% and limit the box width to around 25em. These two changes make the box look a little less "chunky" which I find more pleasing. What do others think? Also, the datestamp is quite heavy and detracts attention somewhat from the information. Perhaps font-weight: lighter; font-size: 80%; would be appropriate given that it's a qualification of information, rather than information itself? Finally, consider the work that Rascalb has done on an American Football infobox at his user page; specifically the choice of #b0c4de as the background colour. I think it provides a rather attractive contrast and avoids the washed out look of black on grey on white. Veila 09:02, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
This looks great to me. I would however change the title of playing details to something that would contain the word 'club'. We could also expand the national team section by adding a field youth teams (where we would write U-21 or U-17 for example) and one with the number too. And it should be feasible to hide fields with no info (we alreday spoke about this somewhere). Julien Tuerlinckx 12:16, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think I've done the heavy lifting I was aiming for. I've tried to ensure that these modifications don't break existing uses. It appears that almost everything is working well, the only problem I've found was on the Alan Shearer infobox where the position entry was a small essay which led to a huge infobox! I've also included a pretty comprehensive usage guide so we can get the best out of this template. Included in there is a style guide section that reflects only my opinion; I'd really appreciate it if others could debate these points so it can be a community driven consensus. I decided to include the style guide unilateraly to stimulate debate, not to impose my personal preferences. I think I'm going to go lie down now... ;) Veila 10:22, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I think place of birth should either be hidden (if no entries are made) or completely removed. The data is already in the main article and, unlike other data duplicate from main article to infobox, the place of birth is in no way significant. A player could be born on another continent, if his parents happened to live there at the time, without that meaning anything for him as a "football player" - which is what the infobox should cover. An example would be Brian Laudrup whose father played in Austria, and so he was born there, but the main point of interest isn't where he was born, but what country he would play for internationally. Also, there's the case of all those players who don't explicitly state where they are from, with their "?, Country" entries looking pretty sloppy.
In all, I think the place of birth header should be replaced by a "nationality" header, as nationality is much more important for a football player than where he happened to be born. Poulsen 10:36, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I think this is hinted at by Poulsen above, but would it be possible to do away with the default comma that's included in the place of birth and death fields? If a player's city of birth is unknown, but the country is listed, it looks unsightly (see Miguel Simão). I'd prefer it if editors had to add the comma manually. - Dudesleeper · Talk 22:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
{{#if:{{{cityofbirth| }}}|({{{cityofbirth}}}),}}
Could this be made to not show, if the cityofbirth is blank? It looks a bit on of players whose place of birth is unknown (e.g. Emiliano Insua), which is fairly common. It also applies to cityofdeath. ArtVandelay13 14:31, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
{{{cityofbirth}}},
{{#if:{{{cityofbirth| }}}|({{{cityofbirth}}}),}}
So that it does look uniform on pages and isn't dictated by the text in the table. x42bn6 Talk 08:21, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
There are several issues regarding the template modifications made by User:Ed_g2s that have not been explained in adequete detail so I have elected to revert them, awaiting his appearance on this talk page.
For these reasons I find the edit technically incorrect. Beyond that, it is important to consider the relationship between implementation and documentation when altering the template behaviour. If the case is made to reintroduce these changes then it would be only reasonable to update the documentation also. ⁂ veila # 09:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I would say it's closer to 99% and 1% for the images (if that), and therefore not worth implementing. I too am fond of light blue, but clearly (in the context of football, at least) grey is far more neutral, and was the colour first chosen. ed g2s • talk 15:42, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Why is this rule imposed for the infobox? There is no rationale given - to me it seems rather unfair that a player's domestic cup or UEFA Cup/Champions League appearances are excluded from the infobox (especially as they are usually included in the main articles). Qwghlm 19:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
The information is freely available for British players. A player may be deprived of close to half his appearances with League Cup, FA Cup and Champions League outings removed. Londo06 12:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Hi, I hope this will be useful. Dont hesitate to improve this template. Have a look at David Beckham, Vincent Kompany or Mbo Mpenza for examples. Julien Tuerlinckx 12:45, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
It is time to add info in the box since only few players already have the infobox in their articles. I suggest to add the following:
What else? Julien Tuerlinckx 12:34, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Something else: Should we count the current season games played by a player in the Professional clubs part since it would be generally updated weekly which is quite boring isn't it? Another annoying thing is: what stats should be displayed in the infobox? For the number of matches played, should it be the number of league matches (as it is currently) or the number of official matches with the club (i.e. taking into account domestic and european cup matches), or both? How could we organize this. I also ask the question because i havent got much knowledge in template editing and on its capabilities. Thanx, Julien Tuerlinckx 15:20, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I think a section for anything a player has won (both club and individual honours) would be good. CTOAGN 16:58, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Julien, sorry to revert your changes, but please b4 doing something that critical put it here.
I don't think it is necessary to add that much information to the infobox. We have retired players that don't play in any "cups" or "teams" right now and the box looks positively ugly without that information. Besides, with close to 50 pages using the box, going back and fixing them all is a long task.
Let's discuss here.
-- Sebastian Kessel Talk 15:04, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I was browsing through players article and when I remembered the article about
Thierry Henry used a table with the detailed selections and goals (the repartition between cup, champ and contiental matches). I think this is the way it should be done, with the infobox summarizing the caps(goals) as it is since the beginning, as sebastian said.
Another thing i was worried about is, as you say, that we would have to change every week the caps(goals) for every player. That's why I added a update field in the box. i think we should keep this as it permits us to update the ciphers when we want to while the ciphers will remain correct. I let you add the update field (needed for both national and team caps(goals))...
Julien Tuerlinckx 15:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Note also that the Thierry Henry article separates each season which is to me a good thing (since it would have been too long to go in the infobox).
Julien Tuerlinckx
15:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
When i began this infobox, my goal was also to use it to create a manager infobox. I think we just need to add a section (within the infobox) with a title like managed clubs or something. if someone has the time to do it... Julien Tuerlinckx 15:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
| manageryears = | managerclubs = , and fill it if you want to. You can see an example at Franky Vercauteren or Georges Leekens. Julien Tuerlinckx 17:55, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
I've commented out the ref/note templates as they break the nunbering on pages that already use ref and note. CTOAGN 19:11, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, but I think we will need the notes however, but not neccessarily in the form of ref/note (even if it's only used by Vincent Kompany at the time). That's all I found when I decided to add the update dates. Any suggestion about how to keep the info in the box? Thanx, Julien Tuerlinckx 19:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi. Maybe there's too much information on this infobox? I don't know if it has to/should be this...complex. For instance, keeping an account of how many goals a player scored for each club and (when applicable) the national team. This requires constant updating (except for retired players), and the information is sometimes not-that-easy to come by. As a result, there are infoboxes out there filled with question marks, or with entire sections simply left blank. It might also be why the infobox was not inserted in the biographic articles of some rather conspicuous players (e.g. Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Samuel Eto'o, Frank Lampard — this last one using a different infobox). Maybe there's no need for this much information on the infobox? Regards, Redux 05:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Talking about overkill, the "place of birth" is somewhat irrelevant as I see it - fore example Brian Laudrup was born in Vienna (Austria) as his father was playing professionally there at the time but that doesn't tell you anything about him as a football player. I mean - the thing of interest is which country a player represents internationally, not the exact place of birth which is already taken care of in the main article. I know there are other facts covered in the article, like time of birth, but info on the persons age (for quickly determining "old" or young up-coming players) is more relevant than where he is born, as I see it. Poulsen 11:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Based on the prevailing standard at Wikipedia:Infobox_templates#People it would seem that the correct name for this template would be Infobox football player. Is it likely to prove overly ardous to make that change? It would also be useful to include the infobox at Wikipedia:Infobox as well. Veila 08:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Most biographical infoboxes that I've looked at seem to set font-size at 95% and limit the box width to around 25em. These two changes make the box look a little less "chunky" which I find more pleasing. What do others think? Also, the datestamp is quite heavy and detracts attention somewhat from the information. Perhaps font-weight: lighter; font-size: 80%; would be appropriate given that it's a qualification of information, rather than information itself? Finally, consider the work that Rascalb has done on an American Football infobox at his user page; specifically the choice of #b0c4de as the background colour. I think it provides a rather attractive contrast and avoids the washed out look of black on grey on white. Veila 09:02, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
This looks great to me. I would however change the title of playing details to something that would contain the word 'club'. We could also expand the national team section by adding a field youth teams (where we would write U-21 or U-17 for example) and one with the number too. And it should be feasible to hide fields with no info (we alreday spoke about this somewhere). Julien Tuerlinckx 12:16, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think I've done the heavy lifting I was aiming for. I've tried to ensure that these modifications don't break existing uses. It appears that almost everything is working well, the only problem I've found was on the Alan Shearer infobox where the position entry was a small essay which led to a huge infobox! I've also included a pretty comprehensive usage guide so we can get the best out of this template. Included in there is a style guide section that reflects only my opinion; I'd really appreciate it if others could debate these points so it can be a community driven consensus. I decided to include the style guide unilateraly to stimulate debate, not to impose my personal preferences. I think I'm going to go lie down now... ;) Veila 10:22, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I think place of birth should either be hidden (if no entries are made) or completely removed. The data is already in the main article and, unlike other data duplicate from main article to infobox, the place of birth is in no way significant. A player could be born on another continent, if his parents happened to live there at the time, without that meaning anything for him as a "football player" - which is what the infobox should cover. An example would be Brian Laudrup whose father played in Austria, and so he was born there, but the main point of interest isn't where he was born, but what country he would play for internationally. Also, there's the case of all those players who don't explicitly state where they are from, with their "?, Country" entries looking pretty sloppy.
In all, I think the place of birth header should be replaced by a "nationality" header, as nationality is much more important for a football player than where he happened to be born. Poulsen 10:36, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I think this is hinted at by Poulsen above, but would it be possible to do away with the default comma that's included in the place of birth and death fields? If a player's city of birth is unknown, but the country is listed, it looks unsightly (see Miguel Simão). I'd prefer it if editors had to add the comma manually. - Dudesleeper · Talk 22:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
{{#if:{{{cityofbirth| }}}|({{{cityofbirth}}}),}}
Could this be made to not show, if the cityofbirth is blank? It looks a bit on of players whose place of birth is unknown (e.g. Emiliano Insua), which is fairly common. It also applies to cityofdeath. ArtVandelay13 14:31, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
{{{cityofbirth}}},
{{#if:{{{cityofbirth| }}}|({{{cityofbirth}}}),}}
So that it does look uniform on pages and isn't dictated by the text in the table. x42bn6 Talk 08:21, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
There are several issues regarding the template modifications made by User:Ed_g2s that have not been explained in adequete detail so I have elected to revert them, awaiting his appearance on this talk page.
For these reasons I find the edit technically incorrect. Beyond that, it is important to consider the relationship between implementation and documentation when altering the template behaviour. If the case is made to reintroduce these changes then it would be only reasonable to update the documentation also. ⁂ veila # 09:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I would say it's closer to 99% and 1% for the images (if that), and therefore not worth implementing. I too am fond of light blue, but clearly (in the context of football, at least) grey is far more neutral, and was the colour first chosen. ed g2s • talk 15:42, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Why is this rule imposed for the infobox? There is no rationale given - to me it seems rather unfair that a player's domestic cup or UEFA Cup/Champions League appearances are excluded from the infobox (especially as they are usually included in the main articles). Qwghlm 19:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
The information is freely available for British players. A player may be deprived of close to half his appearances with League Cup, FA Cup and Champions League outings removed. Londo06 12:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)