Curling Template‑class | |||||||
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Biography: Sports and Games Template‑class | ||||||||||
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Infoboxes | ||||
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Wikidata | ||||
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This is my petition for a coach label to be added to the curlers infobox. Thoughts? Krazytea( talk) 05:07, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
This infobox includes lots of useful information about the player it describes - but doesn't tell readers that the person is a curler! That's pretty fundamental. Accordingly,
I recently added a configurable |role=
parameter, displayed as a subheader, defaulting to the content "
Curler".
Further, in many cases, such as
Wang Fengchun and
Pat McCallum, it's not apparent whether the subject is male or female, so I included a gender parameter, displayed as an icon, marked up as an abbreviation. You can see how that looks in the infobox on my user page, which also has |role=Wikimedian
.
Unfortunately, the improvements were reverted.
No issues with the changes were raised, neither here nor in the edit summary, but a link was given to an historic, inconclusive discussion where some people did not like the visual appearance of such changes (which of course can be debated). Nothing in that discussion supports a revert here. The only other content of the edit summary was "change needs discussion".
An infobox is supposed to give a quick and convenient summary of key aspects of the subject, and to emit them as machine readable metadata. For curlers, the fact that they are a curler is indisputably a "key aspect"; as is the gender of any person.
Accordingly, the changes I made should be restored. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:41, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
{{{subheader}}}
, used by |role=
in my code, is fixed in {{
infobox}}. It already appears near the top of the infobox, just below the subject's name. The gender symbol is used elsewhere, without complaint. The consensus for its use here is disputed by only you. If not as a symbol, and not as text, how would you propose to display it? How would others like to see it displayed?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 12:52, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
In my code, |role=
is in {{{subheader}}}
and is the fourth-highest parameter; after {{{bodyclass}}}
, {{{above}}}
and {{{aboveclass}}}
:
<nowiki>
{{Infobox
|bodyclass = biography vcard
|above = <includeonly>{{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}</includeonly>
|aboveclass = fn
| subheader = <span class="role">{{#if:{{{role|}}}|{{{role}}}|[[Curling|Curler]]}}</span>
</nowiki>
It would not be appropriate to put it above any of these. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:28, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
So looking at the example given in the documentation, the difference between the top bit of the current version and the proposed change looks like this:
|
|
and the additional microformats it emits are marked up with class="role" and class="gender". In my humble opinion the change is an improvement: visually it's not intrusive, but big enough for a reader to learn that Norberg is a curler. Mouse users can hover over the symbol to see that it represents 'female', and screen readers would hear that information from the title parameter. Obviously the extra microformats provide further info for third-parties in a standard format.
As ever, I don't put much weight on the "nobody's done it before" argument - we'd never make any progress if that was applied to every change. For what it's worth, I could tweak the template to read the gender from Wikidata, if desired, so that editors wouldn't have to bother with it. Thoughts? -- RexxS ( talk) 19:04, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Anette Norberg | |
---|---|
Curler and biathlete ♀ | |
Born | Anette Norberg November 12, 1966 |
|role=
which will then be displayed in place of the default. Here's an example of how it might look - if you examine the wikitext, you'll see that I've placed |role=
on the third line, but of course it could go anywhere inside the template. Hope that helps.<abbr>...</abbr>
tags because the Wikipedia CSS forces it (it matches the default styling in Firefox and Opera - Chrome and IE don't underline by default). I'm not sure there's much we can do for readers who don't know what their browser is telling them, but I do agree that the small size of the symbol exacerbates it. Part of the problem is that - as you've indicated - we don't use <abbr>...</abbr>
much, so readers don't recognise the markup: a bit chicken-&-egg really. It's possible that a better solution would be to just give the gender, rather than abbreviating it: "Female curler", "Male gymnast", etc. --
RexxS (
talk) 14:13, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Comment: I don't see the need for these two new parameters, "role" and "gender." At best, the information they provide is superfluous to an infobox. The infobox is a supplement to the article, and thus does not necessarily need to contain all the details of the person whom the article is about.
The "role" parameter is absolutely unnecessary. It is perfectly clear that every article in which this template is used is about a curler. There is no other descriptor that could go in that parameter. Sure, a person may also be a coach, have a role in a curling association, or have some other occupation, but the fact remains that this person is still a curler. I cannot think of any case in which this template would be used for a non-curler. Speaking outside of the curling world, I would be less opposed to the addition of a "role" parameter if this were a more general template (i.e. covering any athlete), but it's not.
Now, regarding the "gender" parameter: in addition to the aesthetic disadvantages of including a symbol indicating gender in the infobox, the addition of any information about gender in the infobox engenders (pun intended) a whole other conversation which distracts from the main purpose of an infobox. As stated previously and in various places, the gender of a subject whose name may not immediately imply a gender can easily be gleaned from the rest of the article. And, if this is not enough (as it should be), I feel as if the solution of stating "male curler" or "female curler" in the lede is good enough. I don't quite feel that the addition of these parameters for the sake of metadata is a convincing argument, because this information can easily be added in a way which preserves the accepted version of the template (i.e. the version without the "role" and "gender" parameters) while including the information that can be useful to third-parties (or whatever the case may be) in a discreet fashion.
My main argument: I would strongly argue that instead of considering the placement of information about the gender (and, if applicable, role) in the infobox, this information should be placed in the lede. After all, the lede is the face of the article, and thus should be used to convey all of the important information about the subject. Again, the infobox is to supplement the article, and in doing so, the lede. I would also like to note that the use of infoboxes is already a subject of debate, simply due to the fact that they may add no value to the article. There is a danger of including parameters in infoboxes that ends up unnecessarily repeating information that is readily found in the article. The creators of this template, and the WP:CURLING community, have decided and affirmed that the parameters included are useful, in the sense that they either sum up information that is spread throughout the text of the article or provide information that may not be available in the text of the article. Adding any other parameters should be subject to the same type of analysis that validated the addition of the original parameters. Prayerfortheworld ( talk) 03:46, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
. Well now you've seen dozens. You tell us you don't think metadata/microformats should not be a factor, and to justify that you assert thatRegarding articles with infoboxes but no lede, I've yet to see an example, let alone a good one
. And yet you offer no means of achieving that. How would it help to copy all of the information available in the infobox to somewhere else in the article, add the microformats, and then hide it? The infobox has exactly the right structure for metadata (label-value pairs) and the microformats can be hidden inside the template code. Infoboxes are absolutely ideal for containing metadata/microformats and if there were any value in putting them somewhere else, it would have been done by now. My concern is how the infobox is viewed by all of the people who use or re-use our content. We don't want to take the elitist view that we're only writing for the readers who who are already deeply interested in the subject and will want to read every bit of our brilliant prose. The articles referred to above show clearly that you can't count on the first few sentences to give you the key facts, so I think your argument definitely doesn't hold.it should be possible to include them without visually displaying them
"where the ledes are incomplete". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:57, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
@
Nikkimaria: I thought we'd more or said all there was, but I'm quite content to pick up on the gender part if you have more to contribute. May I assume that the present implementation of the |role=
parameter is one you could live with? I think I was weighing the unobtrusiveness of the symbol against the simplicity of plain text like "Female curler" and you were concerned about the placement of the gender symbol after the role, along with a concern that both the text and symbols were problematic. I'm not sure what the problem was that you found with "Male/Female curler", so perhaps you could expand on that? I should add that I agree with MontanaBW that the provision of the extra microformat data is an added advantage that I wouldn't dismiss lightly. --
RexxS (
talk) 00:13, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
The case of "other" values can certainly be catered for; the code to do so is already in {{ Infobox user}}, for example."Again: please read the replies given, rather than restating your questions. I also asked you, twice already
"In order that we can be sure we're not being pointlessly distracted by solely-hypothetical edge cases, please can you name a curler, using this infobox, for whom this is pertinent?", which you have again ignored. Once again please answer that now. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:45, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
|other|o= {{abbr|1=<span style="line-height: 12px;">[[File:Gendersign.svg|x12px|link=]]</span>|2=other|class=gender}}
|2=other gender
. I can see there is a potential problem if your part of the world has different conventions, so perhaps you can suggest symbols that would have inoffensive meanings. Do you feel we need to define more cases? In any case, at present the template wouldn't display anything that wasn't simply male or female. Does your objection still remain to that? Or are you going to insist on waiting until we have an implementation for all the possible cases that we haven't even shown a need for yet? --
RexxS (
talk) 02:14, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
The case of "other" values can certainly be catered for; the code to do so is already in {{ Infobox user}}, for example."Please read the replies given, rather than restating your questions. I also asked you
"In order that we can be sure we're not being pointlessly distracted by solely-hypothetical edge cases, please can you name a curler, using this infobox, for whom this is pertinent?", which you also appear to have overlooked. perhaps you could answer that now? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:36, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
Making use of Wikidata to populate some of the parameters of this infobox could facilitate jobs like adding additional parameters. A current example is that of adding the gender parameter (per discussion above). I've created a sandbox-type version at Template:Infobox curler/Wikidata that behaves identically to Template:Infobox curler except that:
|gender=
parameter is omitted, its value is fetched from Wikidata.|gender=
will use that value and no call will be made to Wikidata.At present only 'male', 'm', 'female', 'f' will produce any display or metadata, so this can be suppressed or set to another viable gender value (although other genders do not currently display).
That would allow articles to enable this parameter for the the common cases of 'male' or 'female' without editors or bots having to go through all 600+ transclusions. In cases of other gender, editors can simply override the value fetched from Wikidata by supplying a |gender=
parameter locally. When Wikidata has no entry, editors would need to create that entry eventually, but the template degrades gracefully by displaying nothing when no Wikidata entry exists for that article.
The Wikidata-aware template may be tested by changing {{Infobox curler to {{Infobox curler/Wikidata in an article like Sandra Schmirler (more articles at 'What links here'), and previewing the result. Please don't save - this is only for discussion at present. I'd be grateful to hear any thoughts on the possibility of amending this template to include Wikidata - infoboxes that do this already are in Category:Templates using data from Wikidata if anyone wants to see other implementations. -- RexxS ( talk) 12:41, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
"Supplying any value, including blank, to |gender=
will use that value and no call will be made to Wikidata."
. The case of "other" values can certainly be catered for; the code to do so is already in {{
Infobox user}}, for example. In order that we can be sure we're not being pointlessly distracted by solely-hypothetical edge cases, please can you name a curler, using this infobox, for whom this is pertinent?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 10:39, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Supplying any value, including blank, to |gender=
will use that value and no call will be made to Wikidata.
At present only 'male', 'm', 'female', 'f' will produce any display or metadata, so this can be suppressed or set to another viable gender value (although other genders do not currently display).
You seem to have missed the part of WP:BRD which says "BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes. Don't invoke BRD as your reason for reverting someone else's work or for edit warring"
. Not to mention "BRD is not an excuse to revert any change more than once"
. And "Do not continue to revert, which is the beginning of edit-warring"
. And "When reverting, be specific about your reasons in the edit summary"
. And "BRD is a way for editors who have a good grasp of a subject to more rapidly engage discussion"
. And "BRD is not a policy, though it is an oft-cited essay. This means it is not a process that you can require other editors to follow"
. And "In the edit summary of your revert, include a link to WP:BRD"
(emphasis in original). And "BRD is not for reverting changes by different editors repeatedly over an extended period to protect your preferred version or ideas"
. And "Try to avoid reverting a revert yourself"
. And "There is, consequently, no requirement that "the consensus version" or "the long-standing version" or any other version of the page be visible during discussion"
. And "If you do not listen and do not try to find consensus, you are wasting everyone's time"
. And "Do not edit war. The BRD cycle does not contain another "R" after the "D"."
(emphasis in original). I trust that that's now clear. And stop stalking my edits.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 08:33, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
You know, Nikki, if you are stalking Andy's edits looking for a "gotcha," I really think you should stop doing that and confine yourself to things where you actually care, as opposed to playing cop, detective, judge, jury and executioner. This is not one of your most endearing traits. Montanabw (talk) 23:34, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
I tried adding it as a thing that could appear on the appearances list of the Infobox, but it didn't work, can someone add it, since it replaced the Pacific-Asia Curling Championships please and thank you! Edwyth ( talk) 11:01, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Anything else I should add while I am working on this! Edwyth ( talk) 08:05, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Curling Template‑class | |||||||
|
Biography: Sports and Games Template‑class | ||||||||||
|
Infoboxes | ||||
|
Wikidata | ||||
|
This is my petition for a coach label to be added to the curlers infobox. Thoughts? Krazytea( talk) 05:07, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
This infobox includes lots of useful information about the player it describes - but doesn't tell readers that the person is a curler! That's pretty fundamental. Accordingly,
I recently added a configurable |role=
parameter, displayed as a subheader, defaulting to the content "
Curler".
Further, in many cases, such as
Wang Fengchun and
Pat McCallum, it's not apparent whether the subject is male or female, so I included a gender parameter, displayed as an icon, marked up as an abbreviation. You can see how that looks in the infobox on my user page, which also has |role=Wikimedian
.
Unfortunately, the improvements were reverted.
No issues with the changes were raised, neither here nor in the edit summary, but a link was given to an historic, inconclusive discussion where some people did not like the visual appearance of such changes (which of course can be debated). Nothing in that discussion supports a revert here. The only other content of the edit summary was "change needs discussion".
An infobox is supposed to give a quick and convenient summary of key aspects of the subject, and to emit them as machine readable metadata. For curlers, the fact that they are a curler is indisputably a "key aspect"; as is the gender of any person.
Accordingly, the changes I made should be restored. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:41, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
{{{subheader}}}
, used by |role=
in my code, is fixed in {{
infobox}}. It already appears near the top of the infobox, just below the subject's name. The gender symbol is used elsewhere, without complaint. The consensus for its use here is disputed by only you. If not as a symbol, and not as text, how would you propose to display it? How would others like to see it displayed?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 12:52, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
In my code, |role=
is in {{{subheader}}}
and is the fourth-highest parameter; after {{{bodyclass}}}
, {{{above}}}
and {{{aboveclass}}}
:
<nowiki>
{{Infobox
|bodyclass = biography vcard
|above = <includeonly>{{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}</includeonly>
|aboveclass = fn
| subheader = <span class="role">{{#if:{{{role|}}}|{{{role}}}|[[Curling|Curler]]}}</span>
</nowiki>
It would not be appropriate to put it above any of these. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:28, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
So looking at the example given in the documentation, the difference between the top bit of the current version and the proposed change looks like this:
|
|
and the additional microformats it emits are marked up with class="role" and class="gender". In my humble opinion the change is an improvement: visually it's not intrusive, but big enough for a reader to learn that Norberg is a curler. Mouse users can hover over the symbol to see that it represents 'female', and screen readers would hear that information from the title parameter. Obviously the extra microformats provide further info for third-parties in a standard format.
As ever, I don't put much weight on the "nobody's done it before" argument - we'd never make any progress if that was applied to every change. For what it's worth, I could tweak the template to read the gender from Wikidata, if desired, so that editors wouldn't have to bother with it. Thoughts? -- RexxS ( talk) 19:04, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Anette Norberg | |
---|---|
Curler and biathlete ♀ | |
Born | Anette Norberg November 12, 1966 |
|role=
which will then be displayed in place of the default. Here's an example of how it might look - if you examine the wikitext, you'll see that I've placed |role=
on the third line, but of course it could go anywhere inside the template. Hope that helps.<abbr>...</abbr>
tags because the Wikipedia CSS forces it (it matches the default styling in Firefox and Opera - Chrome and IE don't underline by default). I'm not sure there's much we can do for readers who don't know what their browser is telling them, but I do agree that the small size of the symbol exacerbates it. Part of the problem is that - as you've indicated - we don't use <abbr>...</abbr>
much, so readers don't recognise the markup: a bit chicken-&-egg really. It's possible that a better solution would be to just give the gender, rather than abbreviating it: "Female curler", "Male gymnast", etc. --
RexxS (
talk) 14:13, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Comment: I don't see the need for these two new parameters, "role" and "gender." At best, the information they provide is superfluous to an infobox. The infobox is a supplement to the article, and thus does not necessarily need to contain all the details of the person whom the article is about.
The "role" parameter is absolutely unnecessary. It is perfectly clear that every article in which this template is used is about a curler. There is no other descriptor that could go in that parameter. Sure, a person may also be a coach, have a role in a curling association, or have some other occupation, but the fact remains that this person is still a curler. I cannot think of any case in which this template would be used for a non-curler. Speaking outside of the curling world, I would be less opposed to the addition of a "role" parameter if this were a more general template (i.e. covering any athlete), but it's not.
Now, regarding the "gender" parameter: in addition to the aesthetic disadvantages of including a symbol indicating gender in the infobox, the addition of any information about gender in the infobox engenders (pun intended) a whole other conversation which distracts from the main purpose of an infobox. As stated previously and in various places, the gender of a subject whose name may not immediately imply a gender can easily be gleaned from the rest of the article. And, if this is not enough (as it should be), I feel as if the solution of stating "male curler" or "female curler" in the lede is good enough. I don't quite feel that the addition of these parameters for the sake of metadata is a convincing argument, because this information can easily be added in a way which preserves the accepted version of the template (i.e. the version without the "role" and "gender" parameters) while including the information that can be useful to third-parties (or whatever the case may be) in a discreet fashion.
My main argument: I would strongly argue that instead of considering the placement of information about the gender (and, if applicable, role) in the infobox, this information should be placed in the lede. After all, the lede is the face of the article, and thus should be used to convey all of the important information about the subject. Again, the infobox is to supplement the article, and in doing so, the lede. I would also like to note that the use of infoboxes is already a subject of debate, simply due to the fact that they may add no value to the article. There is a danger of including parameters in infoboxes that ends up unnecessarily repeating information that is readily found in the article. The creators of this template, and the WP:CURLING community, have decided and affirmed that the parameters included are useful, in the sense that they either sum up information that is spread throughout the text of the article or provide information that may not be available in the text of the article. Adding any other parameters should be subject to the same type of analysis that validated the addition of the original parameters. Prayerfortheworld ( talk) 03:46, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
. Well now you've seen dozens. You tell us you don't think metadata/microformats should not be a factor, and to justify that you assert thatRegarding articles with infoboxes but no lede, I've yet to see an example, let alone a good one
. And yet you offer no means of achieving that. How would it help to copy all of the information available in the infobox to somewhere else in the article, add the microformats, and then hide it? The infobox has exactly the right structure for metadata (label-value pairs) and the microformats can be hidden inside the template code. Infoboxes are absolutely ideal for containing metadata/microformats and if there were any value in putting them somewhere else, it would have been done by now. My concern is how the infobox is viewed by all of the people who use or re-use our content. We don't want to take the elitist view that we're only writing for the readers who who are already deeply interested in the subject and will want to read every bit of our brilliant prose. The articles referred to above show clearly that you can't count on the first few sentences to give you the key facts, so I think your argument definitely doesn't hold.it should be possible to include them without visually displaying them
"where the ledes are incomplete". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:57, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
@
Nikkimaria: I thought we'd more or said all there was, but I'm quite content to pick up on the gender part if you have more to contribute. May I assume that the present implementation of the |role=
parameter is one you could live with? I think I was weighing the unobtrusiveness of the symbol against the simplicity of plain text like "Female curler" and you were concerned about the placement of the gender symbol after the role, along with a concern that both the text and symbols were problematic. I'm not sure what the problem was that you found with "Male/Female curler", so perhaps you could expand on that? I should add that I agree with MontanaBW that the provision of the extra microformat data is an added advantage that I wouldn't dismiss lightly. --
RexxS (
talk) 00:13, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
The case of "other" values can certainly be catered for; the code to do so is already in {{ Infobox user}}, for example."Again: please read the replies given, rather than restating your questions. I also asked you, twice already
"In order that we can be sure we're not being pointlessly distracted by solely-hypothetical edge cases, please can you name a curler, using this infobox, for whom this is pertinent?", which you have again ignored. Once again please answer that now. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:45, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
|other|o= {{abbr|1=<span style="line-height: 12px;">[[File:Gendersign.svg|x12px|link=]]</span>|2=other|class=gender}}
|2=other gender
. I can see there is a potential problem if your part of the world has different conventions, so perhaps you can suggest symbols that would have inoffensive meanings. Do you feel we need to define more cases? In any case, at present the template wouldn't display anything that wasn't simply male or female. Does your objection still remain to that? Or are you going to insist on waiting until we have an implementation for all the possible cases that we haven't even shown a need for yet? --
RexxS (
talk) 02:14, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
The case of "other" values can certainly be catered for; the code to do so is already in {{ Infobox user}}, for example."Please read the replies given, rather than restating your questions. I also asked you
"In order that we can be sure we're not being pointlessly distracted by solely-hypothetical edge cases, please can you name a curler, using this infobox, for whom this is pertinent?", which you also appear to have overlooked. perhaps you could answer that now? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:36, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
Making use of Wikidata to populate some of the parameters of this infobox could facilitate jobs like adding additional parameters. A current example is that of adding the gender parameter (per discussion above). I've created a sandbox-type version at Template:Infobox curler/Wikidata that behaves identically to Template:Infobox curler except that:
|gender=
parameter is omitted, its value is fetched from Wikidata.|gender=
will use that value and no call will be made to Wikidata.At present only 'male', 'm', 'female', 'f' will produce any display or metadata, so this can be suppressed or set to another viable gender value (although other genders do not currently display).
That would allow articles to enable this parameter for the the common cases of 'male' or 'female' without editors or bots having to go through all 600+ transclusions. In cases of other gender, editors can simply override the value fetched from Wikidata by supplying a |gender=
parameter locally. When Wikidata has no entry, editors would need to create that entry eventually, but the template degrades gracefully by displaying nothing when no Wikidata entry exists for that article.
The Wikidata-aware template may be tested by changing {{Infobox curler to {{Infobox curler/Wikidata in an article like Sandra Schmirler (more articles at 'What links here'), and previewing the result. Please don't save - this is only for discussion at present. I'd be grateful to hear any thoughts on the possibility of amending this template to include Wikidata - infoboxes that do this already are in Category:Templates using data from Wikidata if anyone wants to see other implementations. -- RexxS ( talk) 12:41, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
"Supplying any value, including blank, to |gender=
will use that value and no call will be made to Wikidata."
. The case of "other" values can certainly be catered for; the code to do so is already in {{
Infobox user}}, for example. In order that we can be sure we're not being pointlessly distracted by solely-hypothetical edge cases, please can you name a curler, using this infobox, for whom this is pertinent?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 10:39, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Supplying any value, including blank, to |gender=
will use that value and no call will be made to Wikidata.
At present only 'male', 'm', 'female', 'f' will produce any display or metadata, so this can be suppressed or set to another viable gender value (although other genders do not currently display).
You seem to have missed the part of WP:BRD which says "BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes. Don't invoke BRD as your reason for reverting someone else's work or for edit warring"
. Not to mention "BRD is not an excuse to revert any change more than once"
. And "Do not continue to revert, which is the beginning of edit-warring"
. And "When reverting, be specific about your reasons in the edit summary"
. And "BRD is a way for editors who have a good grasp of a subject to more rapidly engage discussion"
. And "BRD is not a policy, though it is an oft-cited essay. This means it is not a process that you can require other editors to follow"
. And "In the edit summary of your revert, include a link to WP:BRD"
(emphasis in original). And "BRD is not for reverting changes by different editors repeatedly over an extended period to protect your preferred version or ideas"
. And "Try to avoid reverting a revert yourself"
. And "There is, consequently, no requirement that "the consensus version" or "the long-standing version" or any other version of the page be visible during discussion"
. And "If you do not listen and do not try to find consensus, you are wasting everyone's time"
. And "Do not edit war. The BRD cycle does not contain another "R" after the "D"."
(emphasis in original). I trust that that's now clear. And stop stalking my edits.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 08:33, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
You know, Nikki, if you are stalking Andy's edits looking for a "gotcha," I really think you should stop doing that and confine yourself to things where you actually care, as opposed to playing cop, detective, judge, jury and executioner. This is not one of your most endearing traits. Montanabw (talk) 23:34, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
I tried adding it as a thing that could appear on the appearances list of the Infobox, but it didn't work, can someone add it, since it replaced the Pacific-Asia Curling Championships please and thank you! Edwyth ( talk) 11:01, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Anything else I should add while I am working on this! Edwyth ( talk) 08:05, 15 April 2024 (UTC)