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I think "Ottoman Greece" is really out of place as a sub-division of "medieval period". As I commented on my edit (just re-edited by someone), a period (that is, of Ottoman rule in present-day Greece) lasting until the early 20th can hardly justifiably be categorized as "medieval". Neither would I call Greek society in the 18th century medieval. This is an anachronistic, ideological notion that i find completely out of place in a project like wikipedia. ( Mx2006 20:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC))
I would suggest that this is displayed in a horizontal style, looking like a timeline. -- dionyziz 13:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC).
Looks a lot nicer now without that overused Acropolis pic, more official and more user friendly not to mention more aesthetically pleasing.
since i massively expanded the culture of greece page, i see no reason why it cannot be included on the history template, it is arranged in a chronological way itself.
First of all, I'm sure that everyone agrees that "history of Greece" doesn't refer to the history of the Greek peninsula and the islands that form today the Greek state. It has to do with the history of Greek peoples who were spread far beyond those borders up until recently. The listing of the Ottoman Greece under "Medieval Greece" is simply out of order. 'Medieval Greece' should by no means be restricted to the Greek peninsula, since there's no single political or cultural difference between Greeks from Greece and from Asia Minor; it's not accurate to differentiate them. The medieval section should be renamed to "Byzantine Empire", and "Ottoman Greece" should have its own placement, and maybe renamed to something else "Greek (Rom) millet" maybe? Miskin 19:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, with such silly articles the template is hopeless. The article Medieval Greece for instance, what connection does it have to a nation's history? This is simply about a minority of the nation in question, that was found the Greek peninsula. Unlike other european nations, Greek history is no defined in terms of geographical borders. Miskin 19:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't talking about any defaming nor Turk-hating, I referring to a common misconception. Miskin 00:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think it's gonig to be easy to come up with a consistent scheme. The easy part is dropping Prehistory, Cycladic, and Minoan, which apply to the geographic region, not the people (who hadn't arrived yet). The harder part is renaming the other periods to something sensible. "Greeks under the Byzantine Empire" (which was of course ruled by Greeks, but not uniformly Greek) and "Greeks under the Ottomans" are accurate, but don't trip off the tongue. Even worse would be "Greeks in the period of the first Kingdom of Greece" (after all, most Greeks did not live within the borders of the Kingdom until later). -- Macrakis 00:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Fut.Perf, on the edit summary you said "Byzantine Empire need not be included twice". I say, why included at all?!? Please comment. Mursili 14:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't want you think anything absurd Future, just the fact that "Greek history" != "history of the Greek peninsula". I don't see a policy restricting us having a series of articles depending in a geographical region (see the History of the Turks or History of the Jews as counter arguments). The fact is that the history of the Greeks differs from the history of the Italians for instance, which is indeed strongly linked to or even defined by their territory, and there's no reason to pretend that all cultures should be treated in the same manner. This has nothing to do with articles on the histories of regions, such as Roman and Byzantine Greece. Miskin 15:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Plus, just think that the western coast of Asia Minor and the region around Constantinople were formally part of the modern Greek state at some point in the 20th century. Miskin 15:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I am trying to put an archaeology box into Zarakas Monastery but I am not sure which time period to link to - there is no Frankish Greece on the timeline and it seems we have to choose between Byz and Ottoman - when clearly the mid 13th Century is neither in the peloponnese. Any ideas? -- 5telios 08:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
where are the dark ages located? I see nothing of them in this template... -- Μ79_Šp€çíá∫횆 tell me about it 01:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
The box is too thin to be a good design element. One needs to be able to put pics of the same width under it! Dave ( talk) 13:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||
|
I think "Ottoman Greece" is really out of place as a sub-division of "medieval period". As I commented on my edit (just re-edited by someone), a period (that is, of Ottoman rule in present-day Greece) lasting until the early 20th can hardly justifiably be categorized as "medieval". Neither would I call Greek society in the 18th century medieval. This is an anachronistic, ideological notion that i find completely out of place in a project like wikipedia. ( Mx2006 20:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC))
I would suggest that this is displayed in a horizontal style, looking like a timeline. -- dionyziz 13:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC).
Looks a lot nicer now without that overused Acropolis pic, more official and more user friendly not to mention more aesthetically pleasing.
since i massively expanded the culture of greece page, i see no reason why it cannot be included on the history template, it is arranged in a chronological way itself.
First of all, I'm sure that everyone agrees that "history of Greece" doesn't refer to the history of the Greek peninsula and the islands that form today the Greek state. It has to do with the history of Greek peoples who were spread far beyond those borders up until recently. The listing of the Ottoman Greece under "Medieval Greece" is simply out of order. 'Medieval Greece' should by no means be restricted to the Greek peninsula, since there's no single political or cultural difference between Greeks from Greece and from Asia Minor; it's not accurate to differentiate them. The medieval section should be renamed to "Byzantine Empire", and "Ottoman Greece" should have its own placement, and maybe renamed to something else "Greek (Rom) millet" maybe? Miskin 19:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, with such silly articles the template is hopeless. The article Medieval Greece for instance, what connection does it have to a nation's history? This is simply about a minority of the nation in question, that was found the Greek peninsula. Unlike other european nations, Greek history is no defined in terms of geographical borders. Miskin 19:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't talking about any defaming nor Turk-hating, I referring to a common misconception. Miskin 00:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think it's gonig to be easy to come up with a consistent scheme. The easy part is dropping Prehistory, Cycladic, and Minoan, which apply to the geographic region, not the people (who hadn't arrived yet). The harder part is renaming the other periods to something sensible. "Greeks under the Byzantine Empire" (which was of course ruled by Greeks, but not uniformly Greek) and "Greeks under the Ottomans" are accurate, but don't trip off the tongue. Even worse would be "Greeks in the period of the first Kingdom of Greece" (after all, most Greeks did not live within the borders of the Kingdom until later). -- Macrakis 00:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Fut.Perf, on the edit summary you said "Byzantine Empire need not be included twice". I say, why included at all?!? Please comment. Mursili 14:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't want you think anything absurd Future, just the fact that "Greek history" != "history of the Greek peninsula". I don't see a policy restricting us having a series of articles depending in a geographical region (see the History of the Turks or History of the Jews as counter arguments). The fact is that the history of the Greeks differs from the history of the Italians for instance, which is indeed strongly linked to or even defined by their territory, and there's no reason to pretend that all cultures should be treated in the same manner. This has nothing to do with articles on the histories of regions, such as Roman and Byzantine Greece. Miskin 15:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Plus, just think that the western coast of Asia Minor and the region around Constantinople were formally part of the modern Greek state at some point in the 20th century. Miskin 15:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I am trying to put an archaeology box into Zarakas Monastery but I am not sure which time period to link to - there is no Frankish Greece on the timeline and it seems we have to choose between Byz and Ottoman - when clearly the mid 13th Century is neither in the peloponnese. Any ideas? -- 5telios 08:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
where are the dark ages located? I see nothing of them in this template... -- Μ79_Šp€çíá∫횆 tell me about it 01:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
The box is too thin to be a good design element. One needs to be able to put pics of the same width under it! Dave ( talk) 13:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)