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The leading bullet here seems non-standard, and a bit awkward for use in footnotes. I'd like to remove it before matters go further. Charles Matthews ( talk) 08:36, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
It's not on 8,000 pages! Currently fewer than 100 occurrences by what links to the template page. So it's manageable by hand right now. Charles Matthews ( talk) 13:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Done, and I've made a pass through all the places where the template is used. Charles Matthews ( talk) 08:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Copied from Template talk:ODNBweb/doc when that page was made a redirect:
-- PBS ( talk) 22:56, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
When I use the template it creates the text perfectly fine, as well as links to the ODNB's WP article and the library subscription page on the external ODNB site. But the main link just points to http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/ref:odnb/default which brings up a 404 page on the DOI website. No matter what is in the template it still seems to point to this URL. (see John Perry (engineer) for a recent example of usage).
Any idea what might be wrong? or have I made an error in usage? The link for the particlar article should point to http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/39459. Fattonyni ( talk) 13:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
The documentation on this appears to be out of date as using the example it does not work. Keith D ( talk) 01:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I've raised some issues with this template at Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#ODNB citation style. To briefly summarise what I said there, I'd like to see this template actually crediting the authors of the articles cited (that would be ethical) and to end up with a format like that seen here. Probably best discussed there, but if discussed here, please leave a note at the other discussion location as well. Carcharoth ( talk) 23:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Now in sandbox:
ODNBweb
{{ODNBweb |doi=10.1093/ref:odnb/34601 |last=Stocker |first=Mark |month=September |year=2004 |title=Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939) |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |edition=online, January 2008 |accessdate=23 January 2008 |id=34601 |ref={{sfnRef|Stocker 2004, Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll}}}}
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help); Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help) (Subscription or
UK public library membership required.)Cite doi
{{cite encyclopedia| doi = 10.1093/ref:odnb/34601| last = Stocker | first = M.| date = September 2004| title = Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939)| encyclopedia = [[Oxford Dictionary of National Biography]]| publisher = Oxford University Press| edition = online, January 2008| url = http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/34601| accessdate = 23 January 2008| ref = {{sfnRef|Stocker 2004, Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll}}}}
ODNBweb/sandbox
{{ODNBweb/sandbox |doi=10.1093/ref:odnb/34601 |last=Stocker |first=Mark |month=September |year=2004 |title=Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939) |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |edition=online, January 2008 |accessdate=23 January 2008 |id=34601 |ref={{sfnRef|Stocker 2004, Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll}}}}
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help); Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help) (Subscription or
UK public library membership required.)---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 09:39, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
If we could just go back a bit: some of the features requested actually exist in the current {{ ODNBweb}}, and have done so for some time? In particular authors, and access date. Charles Matthews ( talk) 17:29, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
I am a bit confused. The sandbox version is using encyclopedia, it is just using it directly instead of using {{ cite encyclopedia}} as an intermediate template. Perhaps this will help:
I can switch it to {{ cite encyclopedia}}, but the output will be exactly the same. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 18:12, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
How citation/core works
|
---|
I am splitting this so we don't get too off track. When you examine the markup for a template like this one or {{ cite encyclopedia}}, the parameters in upper case (for the most part) are from {{ citation/core}}. Lets examine some parameters: Here
From citation/core:
Cite doi (which uses cite journal) Stocker, M. (September 2004). "Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939)". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online, January 2008 ed.). Oxford University Press. doi: 10.1093/ref:odnb/34601. Retrieved 23 January 2008. ODNBweb/sandbox Stocker, Mark (2004). "Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939)".
Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online, January 2008 ed.).
Oxford University Press.
doi:
10.1093/ref:odnb/34601. cite encyclopedia Stocker, Mark (2004).
"Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939)".
Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online, January 2008 ed.).
Oxford University Press.
doi:
10.1093/ref:odnb/34601. Retrieved 23 January 2008. |
Notice they all have the same outputs, except for the ODNBweb subscription notice. If you check the metadata, they will all be the same. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 23:20, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
<ref name=DNB>Lovatt "[http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/10535 Geoffrey (1151?–1212)]" ''Oxford Dictionary of National Biography''</ref>
{{cite encyclopedia |author=Lovatt, Marie |title=Geoffrey (1151?–1212)|encyclopedia=Oxford Dictionary of National Biography |publisher= Oxford University Press |year= 2004 |url=http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/10535 |edition= October 2007 revised |accessdate= 12 November 2007 |doi= 10.1093/ref:odnb/10535 |format= {{ODNBsub}} }}
Looking at what is in the sandbox and I assume that is the code we are discussing. If so there are two settings for "|ref=". It seems to me that a lot of the code can be removed. I do not see the reason for the year complications or the date stuff. Why not just pass those complications on to encyclopedia to sort out?
On that note to protect this template from causing problems due to bugs in the encyclopedia template (it does not handle the difference between null and empty parameters very well) you might like to consider setting parameters like this fragment of code:
<!--Test below stops the setting of an empty named parameter not explicitly passed into this template--> |{{#if:{{{year|}}} |year |HIDE_PARAMETER}}={{{year|}}} |{{#if:{{{date|}}} |date |HIDE_PARAMETER}}={{{date|}}}
-- PBS ( talk) 05:10, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
This was one that bit me earlier in the year. I was (still am?) setting up pairs of templates for PD sources. One is typically called {{Cite PDpedia}} and the other {{PDpedia}}. Usually {{Cite PDpedia}} is like this template and serves the same function see for example {{ cite EB1911}} they both add hidden categories for maintenance. The "cite" template of the two would work as expected but when called via another template would fail in what was for me at the time unexpected ways.
A demonstration
|
---|
This can be demonstrated using {{cite encyclopedia |title= {{{title|}}} |encyclopedia=PD Old |last= {{{last|}}} |author= {{{author|}}} }} Now for some some tests: First using the parameter "last": {{User: Gadget850/test|last=ASMITH|title=An article}} {{cite encyclopedia|last=BSMITH|title=An article|encyclopedia=PD Old}} The code works as expected. Now for some tests using the parameter "author": {{User: Gadget850/test|author=CSMITH|title=an article}} {{cite encyclopedia|author=DSMITH|title=A title|encyclopedia=PD Old}} The author parameter value "CSMITH" is missing from test output but DSMITH is present in encyclopedia output. Why? Because in test we are passing in "last=" as an empty string (thanks to the line in the "user/test" template "|last= {{{last|}}}"). The problem lies in the mal-formed line in {{ cite encyclopedia}} that does not test the parameter "last" to see if it is empty it only tests to see if it exists. If it exists then it uses it (even though it is empty) and ignore the rest of the line so the output generated by test calling encycloped is that of last="" rather than author="CSMITH". |
At the time (last March) I was baffled and had to ask a question at Help talk:Template where some patient people explained the error of my ways. Once I knew what to look for I came across this:
Which explain it.
The point I was making is that it is probably not a good idea to pass in parameters from one template to another that are not set by application page, because even if the template that is called (in this case {{ cite encyclopedia}} works as expected today when called from a wrapper template (this one), it may not work properly tomorrow. The reason I highlighted "year=" and "date=" is because they are used by {{ harv}} and if date= is present, year= is not displayed, but if year= is present then {{ harv}} uses its value even if date= is set. So to avoid possible unforeseen consequences, it is probably best not to set either to blank in this wrapper template if the application page using it does not explicitly set them. -- PBS ( talk) 23:11, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
examples
|
---|
{{ODNBweb/sandbox |last= {{{last|}}} |author= {{{author|}}} }}
|last= {{{last|}}}
|{{#if:{{{last|}}} |last |HIDE_PARAMETER}}={{{last|}}}
|
I reverted this change to the sandbox made on 26 October 2011. This revert changed underlying template back to {{ cite encyclopedia}} from {{ citation/core}}.
I then added a new parameter "origyear=" because in many instances the original 2004 version has been updated since and the editors at the ODNB promise a rolling update of their articles.
Having done that I put in a simple test into testcases. Everything seemed to work as expected. But a lot more test cases are needed.
Then I implemented a large change to the sandbox. As discussed in the previous section, I changed the way parameters were handled only passing on to {{ cite encyclopedia}} those parameters that are set by editors who places this template into an article. This means that there is no need to handle any interrelation between the parameters in this template unless they are none standard. This should reduce maintenance on this template. Two parameters are handled in a none standard way:
There are two none standard parameters "id" and "urlname" if either or both are set they set a value for
Charles it was you who
originally created this logic, with
contribution-url=http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/{{{id|{{{urlname|default}}}}}}.htm
What was the idea behind the "default" part because as it was implemented in the sandbox before my change it defaulted to an error page, as does the page generated by the current production version
http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/default. If however it is left out then the string would be
http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/ and that url automatically redirects to the home page. So whichever version is implemented the "default" needs to be removed. In my most recent version I have not implemented the logic for always supplying a string to "chapter-url=". The reason for this, is that if one uses the "doi=" parameter then I see no reason to set the other. However if it is wanted it is not difficult to do particularly if we remove "urlname". As the "urlname" parameter as it is not documented I suggest we remove it.
In the sandbox version I replaced there were three parameters not used by "cite encyclopedia": "author1link=" "author2link=" "author2link=" so IMO which ever version is implemented these can be removed.
Both the sandbox version I have just overwritten and my current implementation does not include the string "on the website of the" is that a feature that is wanted?
-- PBS ( talk) 00:32, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
OK I have done some more messing, the version now will do most of what people want using the example in the current documention:
{{ODNBweb|id=29986|title=Worsley, Sir Richard}}
Produces from the current template:
{{
citation}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)Sandbox:
The major visual changes are:
On the visual side the sandbox version can be implemented link this, or it can be made to mimic the current output. The sandbox version also includes most of the common "cite encyclopedia" bells and whistles such as two authors with authorlinks parameters (As many articles have the original author and a reviewer). Instead (or with id=) url= can be used in the usual way as can doi=. The parameters date=, year= and origyear= all work as standard.
I'll implement it. We can always roll back or modify the parameters. -- PBS ( talk) 16:13, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
People who thought about this template might be interested in Template:Who's Who. Dsp13 ( talk) 02:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
I have updated the documentation to include a list of new parameters that are now available. see Template:ODNBweb/doc -- PBS ( talk) 23:02, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
I have moved this template from template:ODNBweb to template:Cite ODNB because with the new parameters it can be used to expand a none web ONDB entry, and most other similar templates such as {{ cite DNB}} have similar styled names which are all taken from the standard styles such as "cite book" "cite web" etc. The redirect ensures that previous entries still work, as will any new one that continue to use the older name. -- PBS ( talk) 14:41, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
Does it support the likes of http://www.oxforddnb.com/templates/article.jsp?articleid=14428&back=&version=2004-09 , which read:
W. W. Wroth, ‘Innes, Cosmo Nelson (1798–1874)’, rev. H. C. G. Matthew, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004 [http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/14428/2004-09, accessed 28 Feb 2013 as archived article (no longer current version) ]
? trespassers william ( talk) 00:48, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
You would have to add it as a standard link not an id like this (with additional parameters for authors etc):
{{Cite ODNB|url=http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/14428/2004-09 |year=2004 |title=Innes, Cosmo Nelson (1798–1874) (no longer current version)}}
-- PBS ( talk) 19:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
An error: Unknown parameter |HIDE_PARAMETER=
ignored error is being displayed on all cites. Please fix this.--
Auric
talk
22:05, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
The displayed statement "(subscription or UK public library membership required)" should be replaced by "(subscription may be required)", for the reasons stated at Template talk:ODNBsub#Template's utility or it's wrong or misleading; and has spam. Since a discussion is there, please consider joining in. Nick Levinson ( talk) 16:02, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
It seems that every ODNB article can be accessed by anybody just by linking to the URL http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/printable/ODNBid (knowing the five digit ODNBid is the tricky part), instead of linking to the DOI, which points to the Subscription required page. Ping PBS and Charles Matthews, what am I missing? Solomon 7968 17:12, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi folks, the backdoor route to access the ODNB seems to have been blocked. Now it shows "No valid credentials were found". Solomon 7968 07:52, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Not all ODNB articles are restricted, eg Virginia Woolf, so a parameter to suppress subscription required, would be useful -- Michael Goodyear ( talk) 22:04, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
I don't agree with the comment on the page, that it is superfluous. For automated maintenance, isn't that clearly wrong? Charles Matthews ( talk) 11:09, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
I have rewritten
Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online ed.). Oxford University Press. {{
cite encyclopedia}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help) (Subscription or
UK public library membership required.) to use
Module:template wrapper. This allows editors to use any of the available {{
cite encyclopedia}}
parameters without the need for special code in this template.
I have also tweaked the sandbox a bit so that |freearticle=
makes the template rendering more like the native underlying {{cite encyclopedia}}
rendering:
|url=
:
{{cite ODNB/sandbox |url=https://www.oxforddnb.com/view/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-37018 |title=Woolf [''née'' Stephen], (Adeline) Virginia |first=Lyndall |last=Gordon |freearticle=y}}
|doi=
:
{{cite ODNB/sandbox |doi=10.1093/ref:odnb/37018 |title=Woolf [''née'' Stephen], (Adeline) Virginia |first=Lyndall |last=Gordon |freearticle=y}}
|id=
:
{{cite ODNB/sandbox |id=37018 |title=Woolf [''née'' Stephen], (Adeline) Virginia |first=Lyndall |last=Gordon |freearticle=y}}
|url=
{{Cite ODNB/sandbox |first=Patrick |last=Little |title=Major-generals (act. 1655–1657) |url=http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/theme/95468}}
|doi=
{{Cite ODNB/sandbox |first=Patrick |last=Little |title=Major-generals (act. 1655–1657) |doi=10.1093/ref:odnb/95468}}
|id=
{{Cite ODNB/sandbox |first=Patrick |last=Little |title=Major-generals (act. 1655–1657) |id=95468}}
Keep? Discard?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:34, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
@ User:Trappist the monk I did not have time to discuss it yesterday and as nothing was broken I decided to wait until today today, but in the meantime I see you have done so at Talk:Eastbourne manslaughter#Deprecated parameter (thanks for the ping),—ping user:Nikkimaria. I think that the padlock while nice eye candy is not as useful as the post script:
{{
ODNBsub}}
:(Subscription or
UK public library membership required.)So I would like it restored. -- PBS ( talk) 07:55, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
{{
cite ODNB}}
gets its style from cs1|2. In cs1|2, |registration=
and |subscription=
have been deprecated. Following the deprecation period, cs1|2 will no longer render the imprecise subscription and registration messages. The text message form of subscription notification provided by {{
ODNBsub}}
is inconsistent with the rendered form of adjacent cs1|2 citations. Editors are, of course, free to write <ref>{{
cite ODNB|...}}
{{
ODNBsub|sentence=yes}}
</ref>
.|url=
in a url-only ODNB citation can't link to the ODNB article. Then, |access-date=
would be handy in possibly locating a copy of the article on an archive service – and this is really only useful if the article is free-to-read. Except for the case of free-to-read articles where the |url=
links to a section in the article, I see little reason for using |url=
at all. Better, I think to convert all of those kinds of ODNB citations to use |id=
or |doi=
and remove |url=
when |url=
points into the ODNB website.![]() | This
edit request to
Template:Cite ODNB has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove |ref={{{ref|harv}}}
from this template as it is now redundant and presents a CS1 error.
Eddie891
Talk
Work 20:33, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Eddie891
Talk
Work
20:33, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
|ref=
, removing that section of code will break the short references that use that custom value. Can you please link to a page that shows a CS1 error (red text, not a maintenance message)? I will try to troubleshoot. Thanks. –
Jonesey95 (
talk)
02:20, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The leading bullet here seems non-standard, and a bit awkward for use in footnotes. I'd like to remove it before matters go further. Charles Matthews ( talk) 08:36, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
It's not on 8,000 pages! Currently fewer than 100 occurrences by what links to the template page. So it's manageable by hand right now. Charles Matthews ( talk) 13:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Done, and I've made a pass through all the places where the template is used. Charles Matthews ( talk) 08:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Copied from Template talk:ODNBweb/doc when that page was made a redirect:
-- PBS ( talk) 22:56, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
When I use the template it creates the text perfectly fine, as well as links to the ODNB's WP article and the library subscription page on the external ODNB site. But the main link just points to http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/ref:odnb/default which brings up a 404 page on the DOI website. No matter what is in the template it still seems to point to this URL. (see John Perry (engineer) for a recent example of usage).
Any idea what might be wrong? or have I made an error in usage? The link for the particlar article should point to http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/39459. Fattonyni ( talk) 13:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
The documentation on this appears to be out of date as using the example it does not work. Keith D ( talk) 01:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I've raised some issues with this template at Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#ODNB citation style. To briefly summarise what I said there, I'd like to see this template actually crediting the authors of the articles cited (that would be ethical) and to end up with a format like that seen here. Probably best discussed there, but if discussed here, please leave a note at the other discussion location as well. Carcharoth ( talk) 23:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Now in sandbox:
ODNBweb
{{ODNBweb |doi=10.1093/ref:odnb/34601 |last=Stocker |first=Mark |month=September |year=2004 |title=Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939) |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |edition=online, January 2008 |accessdate=23 January 2008 |id=34601 |ref={{sfnRef|Stocker 2004, Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll}}}}
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help); Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help) (Subscription or
UK public library membership required.)Cite doi
{{cite encyclopedia| doi = 10.1093/ref:odnb/34601| last = Stocker | first = M.| date = September 2004| title = Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939)| encyclopedia = [[Oxford Dictionary of National Biography]]| publisher = Oxford University Press| edition = online, January 2008| url = http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/34601| accessdate = 23 January 2008| ref = {{sfnRef|Stocker 2004, Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll}}}}
ODNBweb/sandbox
{{ODNBweb/sandbox |doi=10.1093/ref:odnb/34601 |last=Stocker |first=Mark |month=September |year=2004 |title=Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939) |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |edition=online, January 2008 |accessdate=23 January 2008 |id=34601 |ref={{sfnRef|Stocker 2004, Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll}}}}
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
: |access-date=
requires |url=
(
help); Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help) (Subscription or
UK public library membership required.)---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 09:39, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
If we could just go back a bit: some of the features requested actually exist in the current {{ ODNBweb}}, and have done so for some time? In particular authors, and access date. Charles Matthews ( talk) 17:29, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
I am a bit confused. The sandbox version is using encyclopedia, it is just using it directly instead of using {{ cite encyclopedia}} as an intermediate template. Perhaps this will help:
I can switch it to {{ cite encyclopedia}}, but the output will be exactly the same. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 18:12, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
How citation/core works
|
---|
I am splitting this so we don't get too off track. When you examine the markup for a template like this one or {{ cite encyclopedia}}, the parameters in upper case (for the most part) are from {{ citation/core}}. Lets examine some parameters: Here
From citation/core:
Cite doi (which uses cite journal) Stocker, M. (September 2004). "Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939)". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online, January 2008 ed.). Oxford University Press. doi: 10.1093/ref:odnb/34601. Retrieved 23 January 2008. ODNBweb/sandbox Stocker, Mark (2004). "Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939)".
Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online, January 2008 ed.).
Oxford University Press.
doi:
10.1093/ref:odnb/34601. cite encyclopedia Stocker, Mark (2004).
"Louise, Princess, duchess of Argyll (1848–1939)".
Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online, January 2008 ed.).
Oxford University Press.
doi:
10.1093/ref:odnb/34601. Retrieved 23 January 2008. |
Notice they all have the same outputs, except for the ODNBweb subscription notice. If you check the metadata, they will all be the same. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 23:20, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
<ref name=DNB>Lovatt "[http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/10535 Geoffrey (1151?–1212)]" ''Oxford Dictionary of National Biography''</ref>
{{cite encyclopedia |author=Lovatt, Marie |title=Geoffrey (1151?–1212)|encyclopedia=Oxford Dictionary of National Biography |publisher= Oxford University Press |year= 2004 |url=http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/10535 |edition= October 2007 revised |accessdate= 12 November 2007 |doi= 10.1093/ref:odnb/10535 |format= {{ODNBsub}} }}
Looking at what is in the sandbox and I assume that is the code we are discussing. If so there are two settings for "|ref=". It seems to me that a lot of the code can be removed. I do not see the reason for the year complications or the date stuff. Why not just pass those complications on to encyclopedia to sort out?
On that note to protect this template from causing problems due to bugs in the encyclopedia template (it does not handle the difference between null and empty parameters very well) you might like to consider setting parameters like this fragment of code:
<!--Test below stops the setting of an empty named parameter not explicitly passed into this template--> |{{#if:{{{year|}}} |year |HIDE_PARAMETER}}={{{year|}}} |{{#if:{{{date|}}} |date |HIDE_PARAMETER}}={{{date|}}}
-- PBS ( talk) 05:10, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
This was one that bit me earlier in the year. I was (still am?) setting up pairs of templates for PD sources. One is typically called {{Cite PDpedia}} and the other {{PDpedia}}. Usually {{Cite PDpedia}} is like this template and serves the same function see for example {{ cite EB1911}} they both add hidden categories for maintenance. The "cite" template of the two would work as expected but when called via another template would fail in what was for me at the time unexpected ways.
A demonstration
|
---|
This can be demonstrated using {{cite encyclopedia |title= {{{title|}}} |encyclopedia=PD Old |last= {{{last|}}} |author= {{{author|}}} }} Now for some some tests: First using the parameter "last": {{User: Gadget850/test|last=ASMITH|title=An article}} {{cite encyclopedia|last=BSMITH|title=An article|encyclopedia=PD Old}} The code works as expected. Now for some tests using the parameter "author": {{User: Gadget850/test|author=CSMITH|title=an article}} {{cite encyclopedia|author=DSMITH|title=A title|encyclopedia=PD Old}} The author parameter value "CSMITH" is missing from test output but DSMITH is present in encyclopedia output. Why? Because in test we are passing in "last=" as an empty string (thanks to the line in the "user/test" template "|last= {{{last|}}}"). The problem lies in the mal-formed line in {{ cite encyclopedia}} that does not test the parameter "last" to see if it is empty it only tests to see if it exists. If it exists then it uses it (even though it is empty) and ignore the rest of the line so the output generated by test calling encycloped is that of last="" rather than author="CSMITH". |
At the time (last March) I was baffled and had to ask a question at Help talk:Template where some patient people explained the error of my ways. Once I knew what to look for I came across this:
Which explain it.
The point I was making is that it is probably not a good idea to pass in parameters from one template to another that are not set by application page, because even if the template that is called (in this case {{ cite encyclopedia}} works as expected today when called from a wrapper template (this one), it may not work properly tomorrow. The reason I highlighted "year=" and "date=" is because they are used by {{ harv}} and if date= is present, year= is not displayed, but if year= is present then {{ harv}} uses its value even if date= is set. So to avoid possible unforeseen consequences, it is probably best not to set either to blank in this wrapper template if the application page using it does not explicitly set them. -- PBS ( talk) 23:11, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
examples
|
---|
{{ODNBweb/sandbox |last= {{{last|}}} |author= {{{author|}}} }}
|last= {{{last|}}}
|{{#if:{{{last|}}} |last |HIDE_PARAMETER}}={{{last|}}}
|
I reverted this change to the sandbox made on 26 October 2011. This revert changed underlying template back to {{ cite encyclopedia}} from {{ citation/core}}.
I then added a new parameter "origyear=" because in many instances the original 2004 version has been updated since and the editors at the ODNB promise a rolling update of their articles.
Having done that I put in a simple test into testcases. Everything seemed to work as expected. But a lot more test cases are needed.
Then I implemented a large change to the sandbox. As discussed in the previous section, I changed the way parameters were handled only passing on to {{ cite encyclopedia}} those parameters that are set by editors who places this template into an article. This means that there is no need to handle any interrelation between the parameters in this template unless they are none standard. This should reduce maintenance on this template. Two parameters are handled in a none standard way:
There are two none standard parameters "id" and "urlname" if either or both are set they set a value for
Charles it was you who
originally created this logic, with
contribution-url=http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/{{{id|{{{urlname|default}}}}}}.htm
What was the idea behind the "default" part because as it was implemented in the sandbox before my change it defaulted to an error page, as does the page generated by the current production version
http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/default. If however it is left out then the string would be
http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/ and that url automatically redirects to the home page. So whichever version is implemented the "default" needs to be removed. In my most recent version I have not implemented the logic for always supplying a string to "chapter-url=". The reason for this, is that if one uses the "doi=" parameter then I see no reason to set the other. However if it is wanted it is not difficult to do particularly if we remove "urlname". As the "urlname" parameter as it is not documented I suggest we remove it.
In the sandbox version I replaced there were three parameters not used by "cite encyclopedia": "author1link=" "author2link=" "author2link=" so IMO which ever version is implemented these can be removed.
Both the sandbox version I have just overwritten and my current implementation does not include the string "on the website of the" is that a feature that is wanted?
-- PBS ( talk) 00:32, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
OK I have done some more messing, the version now will do most of what people want using the example in the current documention:
{{ODNBweb|id=29986|title=Worsley, Sir Richard}}
Produces from the current template:
{{
citation}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)Sandbox:
The major visual changes are:
On the visual side the sandbox version can be implemented link this, or it can be made to mimic the current output. The sandbox version also includes most of the common "cite encyclopedia" bells and whistles such as two authors with authorlinks parameters (As many articles have the original author and a reviewer). Instead (or with id=) url= can be used in the usual way as can doi=. The parameters date=, year= and origyear= all work as standard.
I'll implement it. We can always roll back or modify the parameters. -- PBS ( talk) 16:13, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
People who thought about this template might be interested in Template:Who's Who. Dsp13 ( talk) 02:14, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
I have updated the documentation to include a list of new parameters that are now available. see Template:ODNBweb/doc -- PBS ( talk) 23:02, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
I have moved this template from template:ODNBweb to template:Cite ODNB because with the new parameters it can be used to expand a none web ONDB entry, and most other similar templates such as {{ cite DNB}} have similar styled names which are all taken from the standard styles such as "cite book" "cite web" etc. The redirect ensures that previous entries still work, as will any new one that continue to use the older name. -- PBS ( talk) 14:41, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
Does it support the likes of http://www.oxforddnb.com/templates/article.jsp?articleid=14428&back=&version=2004-09 , which read:
W. W. Wroth, ‘Innes, Cosmo Nelson (1798–1874)’, rev. H. C. G. Matthew, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004 [http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/14428/2004-09, accessed 28 Feb 2013 as archived article (no longer current version) ]
? trespassers william ( talk) 00:48, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
You would have to add it as a standard link not an id like this (with additional parameters for authors etc):
{{Cite ODNB|url=http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/14428/2004-09 |year=2004 |title=Innes, Cosmo Nelson (1798–1874) (no longer current version)}}
-- PBS ( talk) 19:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
An error: Unknown parameter |HIDE_PARAMETER=
ignored error is being displayed on all cites. Please fix this.--
Auric
talk
22:05, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
The displayed statement "(subscription or UK public library membership required)" should be replaced by "(subscription may be required)", for the reasons stated at Template talk:ODNBsub#Template's utility or it's wrong or misleading; and has spam. Since a discussion is there, please consider joining in. Nick Levinson ( talk) 16:02, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
It seems that every ODNB article can be accessed by anybody just by linking to the URL http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/printable/ODNBid (knowing the five digit ODNBid is the tricky part), instead of linking to the DOI, which points to the Subscription required page. Ping PBS and Charles Matthews, what am I missing? Solomon 7968 17:12, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi folks, the backdoor route to access the ODNB seems to have been blocked. Now it shows "No valid credentials were found". Solomon 7968 07:52, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Not all ODNB articles are restricted, eg Virginia Woolf, so a parameter to suppress subscription required, would be useful -- Michael Goodyear ( talk) 22:04, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
I don't agree with the comment on the page, that it is superfluous. For automated maintenance, isn't that clearly wrong? Charles Matthews ( talk) 11:09, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
I have rewritten
Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online ed.). Oxford University Press. {{
cite encyclopedia}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help) (Subscription or
UK public library membership required.) to use
Module:template wrapper. This allows editors to use any of the available {{
cite encyclopedia}}
parameters without the need for special code in this template.
I have also tweaked the sandbox a bit so that |freearticle=
makes the template rendering more like the native underlying {{cite encyclopedia}}
rendering:
|url=
:
{{cite ODNB/sandbox |url=https://www.oxforddnb.com/view/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0001/odnb-9780198614128-e-37018 |title=Woolf [''née'' Stephen], (Adeline) Virginia |first=Lyndall |last=Gordon |freearticle=y}}
|doi=
:
{{cite ODNB/sandbox |doi=10.1093/ref:odnb/37018 |title=Woolf [''née'' Stephen], (Adeline) Virginia |first=Lyndall |last=Gordon |freearticle=y}}
|id=
:
{{cite ODNB/sandbox |id=37018 |title=Woolf [''née'' Stephen], (Adeline) Virginia |first=Lyndall |last=Gordon |freearticle=y}}
|url=
{{Cite ODNB/sandbox |first=Patrick |last=Little |title=Major-generals (act. 1655–1657) |url=http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/theme/95468}}
|doi=
{{Cite ODNB/sandbox |first=Patrick |last=Little |title=Major-generals (act. 1655–1657) |doi=10.1093/ref:odnb/95468}}
|id=
{{Cite ODNB/sandbox |first=Patrick |last=Little |title=Major-generals (act. 1655–1657) |id=95468}}
Keep? Discard?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 16:34, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
@ User:Trappist the monk I did not have time to discuss it yesterday and as nothing was broken I decided to wait until today today, but in the meantime I see you have done so at Talk:Eastbourne manslaughter#Deprecated parameter (thanks for the ping),—ping user:Nikkimaria. I think that the padlock while nice eye candy is not as useful as the post script:
{{
ODNBsub}}
:(Subscription or
UK public library membership required.)So I would like it restored. -- PBS ( talk) 07:55, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
{{
cite ODNB}}
gets its style from cs1|2. In cs1|2, |registration=
and |subscription=
have been deprecated. Following the deprecation period, cs1|2 will no longer render the imprecise subscription and registration messages. The text message form of subscription notification provided by {{
ODNBsub}}
is inconsistent with the rendered form of adjacent cs1|2 citations. Editors are, of course, free to write <ref>{{
cite ODNB|...}}
{{
ODNBsub|sentence=yes}}
</ref>
.|url=
in a url-only ODNB citation can't link to the ODNB article. Then, |access-date=
would be handy in possibly locating a copy of the article on an archive service – and this is really only useful if the article is free-to-read. Except for the case of free-to-read articles where the |url=
links to a section in the article, I see little reason for using |url=
at all. Better, I think to convert all of those kinds of ODNB citations to use |id=
or |doi=
and remove |url=
when |url=
points into the ODNB website.![]() | This
edit request to
Template:Cite ODNB has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove |ref={{{ref|harv}}}
from this template as it is now redundant and presents a CS1 error.
Eddie891
Talk
Work 20:33, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Eddie891
Talk
Work
20:33, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
|ref=
, removing that section of code will break the short references that use that custom value. Can you please link to a page that shows a CS1 error (red text, not a maintenance message)? I will try to troubleshoot. Thanks. –
Jonesey95 (
talk)
02:20, 19 April 2020 (UTC)