![]() | This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: page moved. This close is reflective on the like move that was proposed for the category. The discussion was slightly in favor of keeping the old name and there was not a consensus to retain the new name. Hence returning to the old name. Vegaswikian ( talk) 22:02, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Template:Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings → Template:China – Hong Kong border crossings – 17:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the recent move from Template:China – Hong Kong border crossings to Template:Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings. I would agree that the former name was a bit silly, since Hong Kong, after all, a SAR of PRC, and is usually viewed on Chinese maps as one of the 34 province-level units (along with all provinces [including Taiwan Province], autonomous regions, national-level municipalities, and Macao SAR).. The latter name is geographically correct in that the border crossings are physically on the way between HKSAR and Guangdong province. However, what the crossings are really about is the border between two legal domains - i.e. a customs and immigration border, as well as a border separating zones with two legal regimes with respect to various things (such as driving on the right/left). "One country, two systems", as they officially say. There are no "border crossings" like this between. When one crosses the border, one gets a passport stamp from the PRC migration department, not from some provincial Guangdong agency. The construction of the crossing and the modality of their operation were probably negotiated between the HKSAR government and the national government in Beijing, rather than between the HKSAR and Guangdong provincial government. The neidi ("the interior", the mainland China, or whatever you call it), i.e. the area within which the customs, immigration, laws-of-the-road etc. rules set in Beijing operate, is the entity with which HKSAR (or Macao SAR) borders. So I would think something like Template:Mainland China – Hong Kong border crossings would be most appropriate for the template and category in question.
The recent renaming was not an isolated step; there were also similar undiscussed changes within the articles involved, and in the Macao articles and template. This ought to be discussed in a centralized way instead of an edit war. -- Vmenkov ( talk) 15:36, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hong Kong is not a sovereign nation and commonly known as part of China (PRC). So that
The title parameter should use which?
Matthew hk ( talk) 09:01, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
|title=
.
Matthew hk (
talk) 16:25, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
Hong Kong and mainland Chinese authorities need to agree on the specific circumstances that will trigger the suspension of quarantine-free travel in the negotiations for reopening the border, the city’s leader has said.
Chinese source:
內地邊防部隊涉佔用香港土地 æ²™é 角建橋擅自éŽå¢ƒ factwire
內地邊防 = Mainland (inland) Border Force.
It does not said "Hong Kong and Chinese authorities". and this Rfc will be offsite canvassing anyway with user that less than 500 edits (and registered in 2013 and without edit for full 5 years) suddenly emerged anyway. Matthew hk ( talk) 08:39, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article. If you've come here in response to such recruitment, please review the relevant Wikipedia policy on recruitment of editors, as well as the neutral point of view policy. Disputes on Wikipedia are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote. |
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
To add the Ocean Terminal and the Kai Tak Cruise Terminal Control Point to the list of Hong Kong piers. 203.145.95.91 ( talk) 09:55, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
To change the link to Changping railway station to Changping railway station (Guangdong). 1.64.48.231 ( talk) 14:15, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
S 0524 can you explain the rationale of your edits which restructure the template box entirely while omitting some entries with no clear explanations, and can you undo them before there's clear consensus? 219.76.24.210 ( talk) 09:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Should these piers be included too? There used to be ferry services between the colony with these ports. 219.76.24.210 ( talk) 12:22, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
In the interbellum period and the first few decades postwar there were several piers in Sheung Wan and Sai Ying Pun that served ferry routes to Macau and China, e.g., Hong Kong, Canton and Macau Ferry Pier, Yuen On Pier, Tung On Pier, Hoi On Pier and Sai Kong Pier. Should these be added? 219.76.24.210 ( talk) 12:22, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Between 1860 and 1898 what became the Boundary Street in the 1930s was a border. Was there any designated points along this land border that acted as border crossings? Yes there was little enforcement until after the Second World War but then was this border entirely open in its existence? 219.76.24.204 ( talk) 09:11, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
There used to be a ferry service to Sha Yue Chung/Shayucong and Tit Fuk Wan/Diefuwan. Should it be added? 219.76.24.204 ( talk) 09:11, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
Given that the RfC above has been concluded with a clear consensus what would be the next, immediate steps? 203.145.94.193 ( talk) 11:35, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | It was proposed in this section that
Template:China–Hong Kong border crossings be
renamed and moved to
Template:Customs and Immigration Control Points of Hong Kong.
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Template:China–Hong Kong border crossings →
Template:Customs and Immigration Control Points of Hong Kong – Current naming convention is both non-sensical and sub-optimal, its existence is a testament to systemic bias on Wikipedia that caters to a small group of vocal users. Allow me to present my reasoning as follows for the change. (1) HK is recognized as a constituent part of not just China but the PRC. (2) Updated name follows the official conventions of the Hong Kong immigration department's English language website and the editorial standards of Hong Kong's English language newspaper of record the South China Morning Post. (3) The renamed template should be straightforward and neutral to all parties. It is possible to achieve this simplistically by avoiding the term "China" altogether; this template is, after all, Hong Kong-centric, not China-centric, not about borders of China proper, hence I don't think many would object to "China" not appearing in title at all (also this neutrally deals with Macau-HK control points). (4) Inability to translate in congruent fashion to and from Chinese - the corresponding Chinese article is titled Hong Kong-Neidi Crossings. (5) Many (perhaps half) of the "border crossings" listed on this template are in fact not border crossings at all - they are instead simply extra-territorial custom control points that are domiciled entirely in the "other"'s territory. (6) My proposed name should be stable for the long term - regardless of Hong Kong's political situation, level of autonomy, or beliefs of Chinese and Hong Kong editors.
By the way, the proposal for the left-heading "China" would in this case be simply changed to "Entry" and "Hong Kong" would be replaced by "Exit". Alternative naming of this template can be "Entry and Exit Control Points of Hong Kong. Regardless of which title we pick, it is better than the current title, which is neither neutral nor stable.
Colipon+(
Talk) 21:23, 15 January 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. —
Mdaniels5757 (
talk •Â
contribs) 21:54, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
politically neutral" and "
avoid[ing] all the pitfalls of the previous proposals". (Btw are you a reincarnation or meatpuppet of the legendary Instantnoodles? Arguing the use of "Mainland" in place of the much simpler and clearer word "China".) 203.95.212.95 ( talk) 11:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
If I do not hear back I presume I can go ahead...Apparent Chinese way of working with others. This is not collaboration in a civilised sense. 203.95.212.95 ( talk) 11:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
[A] handful"?
there are hundreds of thoseThere aren't really that many and that's way beyond the scope of this box. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
...through the lens of one of the relevant customs authorities?Exactly. You caught the point Firefangledfeathers. Colipon is pushing a Sinocentric point of view and the agenda of Beijing. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
My understanding is that the bridge itself is basically neutral territory ...You are simply wrong. There is no neutral territory. The border between Hong Kong and China over the waters has always been clearly demarcated. It cuts through the bridge. The border between Macau and China has also been demarcated before the bridge was opened. There was a case that a Hong Kong men was arrested by the Chinese authorities on his way from Hong Kong to Macau in the middle of the bridge. Of course exit is controlled.
Not sure if Exit is controlled at all.It would be unimaginable for a jurisdiction like China not to do so. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
Do any customs authorities other than...Those listed under China are operated by the immigration and customs authorities of China. Those listed under Hong Kong are operated by Hong Kong. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
...they are instead simply extra-territorial custom control points that are domiciled entirely in the "other"'s territory.None of them is extraterritorial. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: page moved. This close is reflective on the like move that was proposed for the category. The discussion was slightly in favor of keeping the old name and there was not a consensus to retain the new name. Hence returning to the old name. Vegaswikian ( talk) 22:02, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Template:Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings → Template:China – Hong Kong border crossings – 17:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the recent move from Template:China – Hong Kong border crossings to Template:Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings. I would agree that the former name was a bit silly, since Hong Kong, after all, a SAR of PRC, and is usually viewed on Chinese maps as one of the 34 province-level units (along with all provinces [including Taiwan Province], autonomous regions, national-level municipalities, and Macao SAR).. The latter name is geographically correct in that the border crossings are physically on the way between HKSAR and Guangdong province. However, what the crossings are really about is the border between two legal domains - i.e. a customs and immigration border, as well as a border separating zones with two legal regimes with respect to various things (such as driving on the right/left). "One country, two systems", as they officially say. There are no "border crossings" like this between. When one crosses the border, one gets a passport stamp from the PRC migration department, not from some provincial Guangdong agency. The construction of the crossing and the modality of their operation were probably negotiated between the HKSAR government and the national government in Beijing, rather than between the HKSAR and Guangdong provincial government. The neidi ("the interior", the mainland China, or whatever you call it), i.e. the area within which the customs, immigration, laws-of-the-road etc. rules set in Beijing operate, is the entity with which HKSAR (or Macao SAR) borders. So I would think something like Template:Mainland China – Hong Kong border crossings would be most appropriate for the template and category in question.
The recent renaming was not an isolated step; there were also similar undiscussed changes within the articles involved, and in the Macao articles and template. This ought to be discussed in a centralized way instead of an edit war. -- Vmenkov ( talk) 15:36, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hong Kong is not a sovereign nation and commonly known as part of China (PRC). So that
The title parameter should use which?
Matthew hk ( talk) 09:01, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
|title=
.
Matthew hk (
talk) 16:25, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
Hong Kong and mainland Chinese authorities need to agree on the specific circumstances that will trigger the suspension of quarantine-free travel in the negotiations for reopening the border, the city’s leader has said.
Chinese source:
內地邊防部隊涉佔用香港土地 æ²™é 角建橋擅自éŽå¢ƒ factwire
內地邊防 = Mainland (inland) Border Force.
It does not said "Hong Kong and Chinese authorities". and this Rfc will be offsite canvassing anyway with user that less than 500 edits (and registered in 2013 and without edit for full 5 years) suddenly emerged anyway. Matthew hk ( talk) 08:39, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article. If you've come here in response to such recruitment, please review the relevant Wikipedia policy on recruitment of editors, as well as the neutral point of view policy. Disputes on Wikipedia are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote. |
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
To add the Ocean Terminal and the Kai Tak Cruise Terminal Control Point to the list of Hong Kong piers. 203.145.95.91 ( talk) 09:55, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
To change the link to Changping railway station to Changping railway station (Guangdong). 1.64.48.231 ( talk) 14:15, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
S 0524 can you explain the rationale of your edits which restructure the template box entirely while omitting some entries with no clear explanations, and can you undo them before there's clear consensus? 219.76.24.210 ( talk) 09:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Should these piers be included too? There used to be ferry services between the colony with these ports. 219.76.24.210 ( talk) 12:22, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
In the interbellum period and the first few decades postwar there were several piers in Sheung Wan and Sai Ying Pun that served ferry routes to Macau and China, e.g., Hong Kong, Canton and Macau Ferry Pier, Yuen On Pier, Tung On Pier, Hoi On Pier and Sai Kong Pier. Should these be added? 219.76.24.210 ( talk) 12:22, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Between 1860 and 1898 what became the Boundary Street in the 1930s was a border. Was there any designated points along this land border that acted as border crossings? Yes there was little enforcement until after the Second World War but then was this border entirely open in its existence? 219.76.24.204 ( talk) 09:11, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
There used to be a ferry service to Sha Yue Chung/Shayucong and Tit Fuk Wan/Diefuwan. Should it be added? 219.76.24.204 ( talk) 09:11, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
Given that the RfC above has been concluded with a clear consensus what would be the next, immediate steps? 203.145.94.193 ( talk) 11:35, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | It was proposed in this section that
Template:China–Hong Kong border crossings be
renamed and moved to
Template:Customs and Immigration Control Points of Hong Kong.
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Template:China–Hong Kong border crossings →
Template:Customs and Immigration Control Points of Hong Kong – Current naming convention is both non-sensical and sub-optimal, its existence is a testament to systemic bias on Wikipedia that caters to a small group of vocal users. Allow me to present my reasoning as follows for the change. (1) HK is recognized as a constituent part of not just China but the PRC. (2) Updated name follows the official conventions of the Hong Kong immigration department's English language website and the editorial standards of Hong Kong's English language newspaper of record the South China Morning Post. (3) The renamed template should be straightforward and neutral to all parties. It is possible to achieve this simplistically by avoiding the term "China" altogether; this template is, after all, Hong Kong-centric, not China-centric, not about borders of China proper, hence I don't think many would object to "China" not appearing in title at all (also this neutrally deals with Macau-HK control points). (4) Inability to translate in congruent fashion to and from Chinese - the corresponding Chinese article is titled Hong Kong-Neidi Crossings. (5) Many (perhaps half) of the "border crossings" listed on this template are in fact not border crossings at all - they are instead simply extra-territorial custom control points that are domiciled entirely in the "other"'s territory. (6) My proposed name should be stable for the long term - regardless of Hong Kong's political situation, level of autonomy, or beliefs of Chinese and Hong Kong editors.
By the way, the proposal for the left-heading "China" would in this case be simply changed to "Entry" and "Hong Kong" would be replaced by "Exit". Alternative naming of this template can be "Entry and Exit Control Points of Hong Kong. Regardless of which title we pick, it is better than the current title, which is neither neutral nor stable.
Colipon+(
Talk) 21:23, 15 January 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. —
Mdaniels5757 (
talk •Â
contribs) 21:54, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
politically neutral" and "
avoid[ing] all the pitfalls of the previous proposals". (Btw are you a reincarnation or meatpuppet of the legendary Instantnoodles? Arguing the use of "Mainland" in place of the much simpler and clearer word "China".) 203.95.212.95 ( talk) 11:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
If I do not hear back I presume I can go ahead...Apparent Chinese way of working with others. This is not collaboration in a civilised sense. 203.95.212.95 ( talk) 11:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
[A] handful"?
there are hundreds of thoseThere aren't really that many and that's way beyond the scope of this box. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
...through the lens of one of the relevant customs authorities?Exactly. You caught the point Firefangledfeathers. Colipon is pushing a Sinocentric point of view and the agenda of Beijing. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
My understanding is that the bridge itself is basically neutral territory ...You are simply wrong. There is no neutral territory. The border between Hong Kong and China over the waters has always been clearly demarcated. It cuts through the bridge. The border between Macau and China has also been demarcated before the bridge was opened. There was a case that a Hong Kong men was arrested by the Chinese authorities on his way from Hong Kong to Macau in the middle of the bridge. Of course exit is controlled.
Not sure if Exit is controlled at all.It would be unimaginable for a jurisdiction like China not to do so. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
Do any customs authorities other than...Those listed under China are operated by the immigration and customs authorities of China. Those listed under Hong Kong are operated by Hong Kong. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
...they are instead simply extra-territorial custom control points that are domiciled entirely in the "other"'s territory.None of them is extraterritorial. 61.15.254.31 ( talk) 08:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)