This is the
talk page of a
redirect that targets the page: • Template:Cite book Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Template talk:Cite book |
|
|
I just started User:Adrian Buehlmann/Book reference regression tests ( talk) in the hope that might be useful. Please feel free to contribute there (edits on the page and its talk are welcome). It's intended as an "open house" user page. Maybe we could move that out of user space someday (if the community consents so). – Adrian | Talk 10:51, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
I moved it to to Template talk:Book reference/regression tests. – Adrian | Talk 22:48, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
See the discussion on Wikipedia_talk:Avoid_using_meta-templates#Logic_templates. – Adrian | Talk 15:55, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Can I use this template for press releases? Is it good practice to use a template for a purpose other than it was orginally intended? I don't see a template specifically for press releases. See the press release example. If I set ID = Press release and Publisher = file format (if not HTML), then this template is in the correct format. -- Tiger Marc ROAR! 19:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Currently, location only shows up if publisher is defined also. For a lot of older works, one often finds the location cited, but not the actual publisher. It would be nice if location showed up even if publisher isn't defined. For example, see Arsène Roux, where I had to add "Publisher=?" because all that is known is that some of his works were published in Rabat. — mark ✎ 08:37, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Does {{ book reference}} include the appropriate hypertext to allow for linking the notes (at the end) with the reference (in the text)? Does it include the variables for linking? Here is a portion of the markup from {{ note label}} <cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}"> Making this addition (or change) would eliminate the need to have both {{ note label}} and {{ book reference}}. Thanks, Steven McCrary 15:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi all. Based on work by Netoholic and CBD I prepared a version of the template code for book reference that uses Netoholic's CSS trick. The code is at User:Adrian Buehlmann/work/b-ref/1. Test cases are at User talk:Adrian Buehlmann/work/b-ref/1. If template:qif really gets removed without a replacement in WikiCode (see Tfd) we could probably use said b-ref/1 which does not include any other template and would thus be compliant with that accursed WP:AUM (See also the lengthy discussions there). Please provide ideas and opinions on how to proceed. Many thanks in advance. Adrian Buehlmann 23:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The proposed replacement is a "css hack" version of the template, right? Has someone created a "weeble" version? — Michael Z. 2006-01-18 00:49 Z
<cite style="font-style:normal" id="Reference-Fowler-1999"><span class="hiddenStructureMartin Fowler"><a href="/info/en/?search=Martin_Fowler" title="Martin Fowler"><span class="hiddenStructureFowler">Fowler</span><span class="hiddenStructureMartin">, Martin</span></a></span><span class="hiddenStructure[[Kent Beck]], John Brant, [[William Opdyke]], and Don Roberts">, <a href="/info/en/?search=Kent_Beck" title="Kent Beck">Kent Beck</a>, John Brant, <a href="/info/en/?search=William_Opdyke" title="William Opdyke">William Opdyke</a>, and Don Roberts</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ()</span><span class="hiddenStructure1999"> (<span class="hiddenStructure"> </span>1999)</span><span class="hiddenStructureFowler1999">.</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ""</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> </span><i><span class="hiddenStructure"> [</span> Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code<span class="hiddenStructure">]</span></i><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructureAddison-Wesley">, <span class="hiddenStructure">: </span>Addison-Wesley.</span><span class="hiddenStructureISBN 0-201-48567-2"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0201485672" class="internal">ISBN 0-201-48567-2</a>.</span><span class="hiddenStructure">.</span></cite>
<cite style="font-style:normal" id="Reference-Fowler-1999"><a href="/info/en/?search=Martin_Fowler" title="Martin Fowler">Fowler, Martin</a>, <a href="/info/en/?search=Kent_Beck" title="Kent Beck">Kent Beck</a>, John Brant, <a href="/info/en/?search=William_Opdyke" title="William Opdyke">William Opdyke</a>, and Don Roberts (1999). <i>Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code</i>, Addison-Wesley. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0201485672" class="internal">ISBN 0-201-48567-2</a>.</cite>
{{Book reference|if= | First = Martin | Last = Fowler | Authorlink = Martin Fowler | Coauthors = [[Kent Beck]], John Brant, [[William Opdyke]], and Don Roberts | Year = 1999 | Title = Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code | Publisher = Addison-Wesley | ID = ISBN 0-201-48567-2 }}
<cite style="font-style:normal" id="Reference-Fowler-1999"><span><a href="/info/en/?search=Martin_Fowler" title="Martin Fowler"><span>Fowler</span><span>, Martin</span></a></span><span>, <a href="/info/en/?search=Kent_Beck" title="Kent Beck">Kent Beck</a>, John Brant, <a href="/info/en/?search=William_Opdyke" title="William Opdyke">William Opdyke</a>, and Don Roberts</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ()</span><span> (<span class="hiddenStructure"> </span>1999)</span><span>.</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ""</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> </span><i><span class="hiddenStructure"> [</span> Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code<span class="hiddenStructure">]</span></i><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span>, <span class="hiddenStructure">: </span>Addison-Wesley.</span><span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0201485672" class="internal">ISBN 0-201-48567-2</a>.</span><span class="hiddenStructure">.</span></cite>
I have started a detailed documentation of Netoholic's CSS trick under my user space at User:Adrian Buehlmann/work/Conditional expressions with CSS. -- Adrian Buehlmann 16:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I just learned about the CSS hack being added to a number of templates, to compensate for a changed policy on template transclusion. I understand that there is an alternative, but this is being implemented because its easier.
This hack injects junk code into the body of the page, then hides it from most visual browsers using CSS. This makes Wikipedia less accessible for users of assistive technologies, like web page readers for the handicapped, and text readers. This is sloppy programming and bad practice from the point of view of usability and accessibility. Wikipedia is an open encyclopedia; please lets not start treating the minority who has the most difficult time reading like second-class citizens. — Michael Z. 2006-01-16 17:50 Z
EVERYONE - in order to quash this ForestFire, please follow-up discussion at MediaWiki talk:Common.css#CSS hack reduces accessibility. -- Netoholic @ 19:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Why is this page locked? Please add [[sk:Šablóna:Knižná_referencia]] into the <noinclude></noinclude> section. I don't know if that is common practice but sounds reasonable to me and it's practical. ~~ helix84 21:02, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I hereby request to exchange to contents of
template:Book reference with
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User:Adrian_Buehlmann/work/b-ref/2&oldid=35708984. The actual content of
template:Book reference violates
WP:AUM. The replacement conforms to
WP:AUM and is a full replacement for the existing template. All features are kept. It is a good replacement for now. See also discussion above. --
Adrian Buehlmann 19:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC) Withdrawn. --
Adrian Buehlmann
09:36, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I oppose this change (as you may have expected). The proposed template may be compliant with WP:AUM, but it's not at all compliant with controlling the basic content of pages. Although hidden from visual browsers using the CSS hack, the blank template contains the following literal content:
[[|, ]], () ( ). "" [ {{{Title}}}], , , , : . ..
As mentioned elsewhere, this technique breaks accessibility (including a WCAG priority 1 checkpoint), and adds arbitrary classes to HTML elements on the page risking page layout breakage. — Michael Z. 2006-01-19 00:21 Z
<cite style="font-style:normal" id="Reference-Title-"><span class="hiddenStructure">[[|</span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">]]</span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ()</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> (<span class="hiddenStructure"> </span>)</span><span class="hiddenStructure">.</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ""</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> </span><i><span class="hiddenStructure"> [</span> TITLE<span class="hiddenStructure">]</span></i><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, <span class="hiddenStructure">: </span>.</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> .</span><span>.</span></cite>
. :--
Adrian Buehlmann
09:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)<span class{{{param1|}}}="hiddenStructure">param1: {{{param1|}}}</span>
. "class*"
is then removed by
HTML Tidy so you will never find things like "classXXX" in the html. --
Adrian Buehlmann
10:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)*{{Book reference | First = Martin | Last = Fowler | Authorlink = Martin Fowler | Coauthors = [[Kent Beck]], John Brant, [[William Opdyke]], and Don Roberts | Year = 1999 | Title = Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code | Publisher = Addison-Wesley | ID = ISBN 0-201-48567-2 }}
*[[Martin Fowler|Fowler, Martin]], [[Kent Beck]], John Brant, [[William Opdyke]], and Don Roberts (1999). ''Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code'', Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-201-48567-2.
Summing up the actual state of voices: I do have support to change
template:book reference to the newest CSS trick version:
(at least as a temporary solution) from:
Opposing:
-- Adrian Buehlmann 13:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I oppose the CSS trick for this template. It breaks pages in browsers that don't support CSS, e.g. lynx. (Perhaps it wouldn't be too hard to make MediaWiki strip out the contents of <div class="hiddenStructure"> tags. I know MediaWiki already uses some HTML tidying program. That would solve the problem.) dbenbenn | talk 22:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Since the CSS hack has been added, I've replaced {{
book reference}} and {{
journal reference}} with literal text in the references section of "
T-34". The change was pretty easy, although to approximate the template's previous output I added something like <cite id="Reference-author-2006" style="font-format:normal;"> . . . </cite>
to each item on the page.
Removing the template actually allowed me to improve the format slightly, adding quotation marks around article titles, avoiding double punctuation after an article title ending with a question mark, and avoiding an undesirable space between the issue and page numbers.
This could be made even easier by using a simple template that wrapped the citation tag around the literal content and added a backlink, but it's not necessary. — Michael Z. 2006-01-23 21:19 Z
The policy tag on WP:AUM has been removed by CTO Brion VIBBER, it's not even a guideline. So I see no longer enough reason to use the CSS hack on book reference or on any other citation template. I hereby request to switch back to using the qif variant (11:42, January 18, 2006 UTC by Phil Boswell) and keep that until the minute we have conditionals in MediaWiki, which Brion indicated that he would be willing to do. -- Adrian Buehlmann 21:53, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
At this stage, I would (surprisingly you might think) advise caution. Frobbing the template back-and-forth between the rival implementations simply hands over ammunition to those who want to make out that these templates are evil. As we know well, it's changing these templates which is likely to put most strain on the servers, so I think we ought to keep the changes to a minimum.
I am aware that there were various changes afoot just before this whole thing blew up: I reckon this would be as good time as any to buckle down and test those changes thoroughly before we put them into action. I have a thing I was working on, and you can see the small amount of progress I made here. Does anyone else have some changes they wanted to make? HTH HAND — Phil | Talk 08:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Per 4/5 consensus above, I've reverted to the version of 05:42, 18 January 2006. — Michael Z. 2006-01-24 15:22 Z
Phil Boswell wrote above:
Looks good to me ( diff). I see not reason to be against that. I assume you have tested that. So, why not? -- Adrian Buehlmann 15:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Why not change the qifs that just test for the parameter's existence be replaced with {{{param|}}}? It would help against meta-template arguments. - Xol 03:16, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
It would be nice if there were an option for generating an unparenthesized date at the end, which is one standard reference style. This is not urgent; I'm keaving the year out and adding it by hand; but the template would be a more useful information store the other way. Septentrionalis 04:17, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I knew it would eventually happen, but I'm very sad it did. An editor actually replaced a perfectly standard wikitext reference sections with this template. It's one thing to try and argue that this template is needed as a handy shortcut tool for new and old editors. It is another thing completely to take this tool beyond that point. It seems to me that editors that like these reference templates ought to first decide whether any "special markup" for references, beyond simple italics, is specifically necessary and desireable across the board. If so, then there is no way this template can even begin to be usable across more than a simple percentage of articles. Don't use template to take the place of making software feature requests, like meta:Cite.php. If you expand the use of this template too far, you're only creating extra work for editors down the line. I'd encourage people to use this minimally and only for adding new references. Where possible, straightforward wikitext is better and complex meta-templates should be avoided, since they can be a barrier to new editors [8]. -- Netoholic @ 21:45, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
*{{Book reference | First = Ruth | Last = Lewin Sime | Year = 1996 | Title = Lise Meitner: A Life in Physics | Publisher = University of California Press | Location = Berkeley | ID = ISBN 0520089065 }}
*Ruth Lewin Sime, ''Lise Meitner: A Life in Physics'', Berkeley: University of California Press, 1996, ISBN 0520089065
Netoholic, I'm an editor that is very glad to use templates like Book reference whenever I can, instead of plain wikitext. The reason is that it helps me do a better job, more easily. It helps me gather all the relevant data, by giving me a list of parameters to fill out. It takes care of formatting, letting me concentrate on the content only. And I have confidence that in the future it will be easier for an automated mechanism to carry forward data from a structured template than plain wikitext. Templates as a mechanism have weaknesses, but I'm surprised that you seem to prefer no mechanism to this limited mechanism. What am I missing? -- Jdlh | Talk 02:49, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
The only template I can see is Citepaper, which is most unsatisfactory. Is it okay to use this template instead? ··gracefool | ☺ 10:41, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
This template needs some date and year attributes to show when the URL was last accessed, in case the link dies (as they often do). See Template:Web reference. Any time you have a URL, a date of last access is handy because it often means the page can be recovered through the Internet Archive. ··gracefool | ☺ 04:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
{{User:gracefool/Book reference test|...
. Please move
template:Book reference test to under your user space and then edit the remaining redirect at
template:book reference test and replace it if {{delete}}
. --
Adrian Buehlmann
08:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC)Someone please add the {{ Tdeprecated}} tag to this template. The new version is {{ cite book}}, which is easier to maintain because it only allows lowercase fields. It also adds a few necessary fields. {{Tdeprecated|cite book}} ··gracefool | ☺ 23:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I was reciently looking at an old revision of an article which used this template. Which unfortunatly made it imposible to see the actual reference. Would it be possible to change the template so its posible to at least see the basic info, with a less obtrusive depreication notice. -- Salix alba ( talk) 10:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please tag this redirect with {{
R with history}}
. Thanks!
Steel1943 (
talk)
23:57, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page of a
redirect that targets the page: • Template:Cite book Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Template talk:Cite book |
|
|
I just started User:Adrian Buehlmann/Book reference regression tests ( talk) in the hope that might be useful. Please feel free to contribute there (edits on the page and its talk are welcome). It's intended as an "open house" user page. Maybe we could move that out of user space someday (if the community consents so). – Adrian | Talk 10:51, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
I moved it to to Template talk:Book reference/regression tests. – Adrian | Talk 22:48, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
See the discussion on Wikipedia_talk:Avoid_using_meta-templates#Logic_templates. – Adrian | Talk 15:55, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Can I use this template for press releases? Is it good practice to use a template for a purpose other than it was orginally intended? I don't see a template specifically for press releases. See the press release example. If I set ID = Press release and Publisher = file format (if not HTML), then this template is in the correct format. -- Tiger Marc ROAR! 19:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Currently, location only shows up if publisher is defined also. For a lot of older works, one often finds the location cited, but not the actual publisher. It would be nice if location showed up even if publisher isn't defined. For example, see Arsène Roux, where I had to add "Publisher=?" because all that is known is that some of his works were published in Rabat. — mark ✎ 08:37, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Does {{ book reference}} include the appropriate hypertext to allow for linking the notes (at the end) with the reference (in the text)? Does it include the variables for linking? Here is a portion of the markup from {{ note label}} <cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}"> Making this addition (or change) would eliminate the need to have both {{ note label}} and {{ book reference}}. Thanks, Steven McCrary 15:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi all. Based on work by Netoholic and CBD I prepared a version of the template code for book reference that uses Netoholic's CSS trick. The code is at User:Adrian Buehlmann/work/b-ref/1. Test cases are at User talk:Adrian Buehlmann/work/b-ref/1. If template:qif really gets removed without a replacement in WikiCode (see Tfd) we could probably use said b-ref/1 which does not include any other template and would thus be compliant with that accursed WP:AUM (See also the lengthy discussions there). Please provide ideas and opinions on how to proceed. Many thanks in advance. Adrian Buehlmann 23:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The proposed replacement is a "css hack" version of the template, right? Has someone created a "weeble" version? — Michael Z. 2006-01-18 00:49 Z
<cite style="font-style:normal" id="Reference-Fowler-1999"><span class="hiddenStructureMartin Fowler"><a href="/info/en/?search=Martin_Fowler" title="Martin Fowler"><span class="hiddenStructureFowler">Fowler</span><span class="hiddenStructureMartin">, Martin</span></a></span><span class="hiddenStructure[[Kent Beck]], John Brant, [[William Opdyke]], and Don Roberts">, <a href="/info/en/?search=Kent_Beck" title="Kent Beck">Kent Beck</a>, John Brant, <a href="/info/en/?search=William_Opdyke" title="William Opdyke">William Opdyke</a>, and Don Roberts</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ()</span><span class="hiddenStructure1999"> (<span class="hiddenStructure"> </span>1999)</span><span class="hiddenStructureFowler1999">.</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ""</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> </span><i><span class="hiddenStructure"> [</span> Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code<span class="hiddenStructure">]</span></i><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructureAddison-Wesley">, <span class="hiddenStructure">: </span>Addison-Wesley.</span><span class="hiddenStructureISBN 0-201-48567-2"> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0201485672" class="internal">ISBN 0-201-48567-2</a>.</span><span class="hiddenStructure">.</span></cite>
<cite style="font-style:normal" id="Reference-Fowler-1999"><a href="/info/en/?search=Martin_Fowler" title="Martin Fowler">Fowler, Martin</a>, <a href="/info/en/?search=Kent_Beck" title="Kent Beck">Kent Beck</a>, John Brant, <a href="/info/en/?search=William_Opdyke" title="William Opdyke">William Opdyke</a>, and Don Roberts (1999). <i>Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code</i>, Addison-Wesley. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0201485672" class="internal">ISBN 0-201-48567-2</a>.</cite>
{{Book reference|if= | First = Martin | Last = Fowler | Authorlink = Martin Fowler | Coauthors = [[Kent Beck]], John Brant, [[William Opdyke]], and Don Roberts | Year = 1999 | Title = Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code | Publisher = Addison-Wesley | ID = ISBN 0-201-48567-2 }}
<cite style="font-style:normal" id="Reference-Fowler-1999"><span><a href="/info/en/?search=Martin_Fowler" title="Martin Fowler"><span>Fowler</span><span>, Martin</span></a></span><span>, <a href="/info/en/?search=Kent_Beck" title="Kent Beck">Kent Beck</a>, John Brant, <a href="/info/en/?search=William_Opdyke" title="William Opdyke">William Opdyke</a>, and Don Roberts</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ()</span><span> (<span class="hiddenStructure"> </span>1999)</span><span>.</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ""</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> </span><i><span class="hiddenStructure"> [</span> Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code<span class="hiddenStructure">]</span></i><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span>, <span class="hiddenStructure">: </span>Addison-Wesley.</span><span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0201485672" class="internal">ISBN 0-201-48567-2</a>.</span><span class="hiddenStructure">.</span></cite>
I have started a detailed documentation of Netoholic's CSS trick under my user space at User:Adrian Buehlmann/work/Conditional expressions with CSS. -- Adrian Buehlmann 16:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I just learned about the CSS hack being added to a number of templates, to compensate for a changed policy on template transclusion. I understand that there is an alternative, but this is being implemented because its easier.
This hack injects junk code into the body of the page, then hides it from most visual browsers using CSS. This makes Wikipedia less accessible for users of assistive technologies, like web page readers for the handicapped, and text readers. This is sloppy programming and bad practice from the point of view of usability and accessibility. Wikipedia is an open encyclopedia; please lets not start treating the minority who has the most difficult time reading like second-class citizens. — Michael Z. 2006-01-16 17:50 Z
EVERYONE - in order to quash this ForestFire, please follow-up discussion at MediaWiki talk:Common.css#CSS hack reduces accessibility. -- Netoholic @ 19:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Why is this page locked? Please add [[sk:Šablóna:Knižná_referencia]] into the <noinclude></noinclude> section. I don't know if that is common practice but sounds reasonable to me and it's practical. ~~ helix84 21:02, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I hereby request to exchange to contents of
template:Book reference with
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User:Adrian_Buehlmann/work/b-ref/2&oldid=35708984. The actual content of
template:Book reference violates
WP:AUM. The replacement conforms to
WP:AUM and is a full replacement for the existing template. All features are kept. It is a good replacement for now. See also discussion above. --
Adrian Buehlmann 19:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC) Withdrawn. --
Adrian Buehlmann
09:36, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I oppose this change (as you may have expected). The proposed template may be compliant with WP:AUM, but it's not at all compliant with controlling the basic content of pages. Although hidden from visual browsers using the CSS hack, the blank template contains the following literal content:
[[|, ]], () ( ). "" [ {{{Title}}}], , , , : . ..
As mentioned elsewhere, this technique breaks accessibility (including a WCAG priority 1 checkpoint), and adds arbitrary classes to HTML elements on the page risking page layout breakage. — Michael Z. 2006-01-19 00:21 Z
<cite style="font-style:normal" id="Reference-Title-"><span class="hiddenStructure">[[|</span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">]]</span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ()</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> (<span class="hiddenStructure"> </span>)</span><span class="hiddenStructure">.</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> ""</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> </span><i><span class="hiddenStructure"> [</span> TITLE<span class="hiddenStructure">]</span></i><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, </span><span class="hiddenStructure">, <span class="hiddenStructure">: </span>.</span><span class="hiddenStructure"> .</span><span>.</span></cite>
. :--
Adrian Buehlmann
09:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)<span class{{{param1|}}}="hiddenStructure">param1: {{{param1|}}}</span>
. "class*"
is then removed by
HTML Tidy so you will never find things like "classXXX" in the html. --
Adrian Buehlmann
10:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)*{{Book reference | First = Martin | Last = Fowler | Authorlink = Martin Fowler | Coauthors = [[Kent Beck]], John Brant, [[William Opdyke]], and Don Roberts | Year = 1999 | Title = Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code | Publisher = Addison-Wesley | ID = ISBN 0-201-48567-2 }}
*[[Martin Fowler|Fowler, Martin]], [[Kent Beck]], John Brant, [[William Opdyke]], and Don Roberts (1999). ''Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code'', Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-201-48567-2.
Summing up the actual state of voices: I do have support to change
template:book reference to the newest CSS trick version:
(at least as a temporary solution) from:
Opposing:
-- Adrian Buehlmann 13:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I oppose the CSS trick for this template. It breaks pages in browsers that don't support CSS, e.g. lynx. (Perhaps it wouldn't be too hard to make MediaWiki strip out the contents of <div class="hiddenStructure"> tags. I know MediaWiki already uses some HTML tidying program. That would solve the problem.) dbenbenn | talk 22:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Since the CSS hack has been added, I've replaced {{
book reference}} and {{
journal reference}} with literal text in the references section of "
T-34". The change was pretty easy, although to approximate the template's previous output I added something like <cite id="Reference-author-2006" style="font-format:normal;"> . . . </cite>
to each item on the page.
Removing the template actually allowed me to improve the format slightly, adding quotation marks around article titles, avoiding double punctuation after an article title ending with a question mark, and avoiding an undesirable space between the issue and page numbers.
This could be made even easier by using a simple template that wrapped the citation tag around the literal content and added a backlink, but it's not necessary. — Michael Z. 2006-01-23 21:19 Z
The policy tag on WP:AUM has been removed by CTO Brion VIBBER, it's not even a guideline. So I see no longer enough reason to use the CSS hack on book reference or on any other citation template. I hereby request to switch back to using the qif variant (11:42, January 18, 2006 UTC by Phil Boswell) and keep that until the minute we have conditionals in MediaWiki, which Brion indicated that he would be willing to do. -- Adrian Buehlmann 21:53, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
At this stage, I would (surprisingly you might think) advise caution. Frobbing the template back-and-forth between the rival implementations simply hands over ammunition to those who want to make out that these templates are evil. As we know well, it's changing these templates which is likely to put most strain on the servers, so I think we ought to keep the changes to a minimum.
I am aware that there were various changes afoot just before this whole thing blew up: I reckon this would be as good time as any to buckle down and test those changes thoroughly before we put them into action. I have a thing I was working on, and you can see the small amount of progress I made here. Does anyone else have some changes they wanted to make? HTH HAND — Phil | Talk 08:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Per 4/5 consensus above, I've reverted to the version of 05:42, 18 January 2006. — Michael Z. 2006-01-24 15:22 Z
Phil Boswell wrote above:
Looks good to me ( diff). I see not reason to be against that. I assume you have tested that. So, why not? -- Adrian Buehlmann 15:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Why not change the qifs that just test for the parameter's existence be replaced with {{{param|}}}? It would help against meta-template arguments. - Xol 03:16, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
It would be nice if there were an option for generating an unparenthesized date at the end, which is one standard reference style. This is not urgent; I'm keaving the year out and adding it by hand; but the template would be a more useful information store the other way. Septentrionalis 04:17, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I knew it would eventually happen, but I'm very sad it did. An editor actually replaced a perfectly standard wikitext reference sections with this template. It's one thing to try and argue that this template is needed as a handy shortcut tool for new and old editors. It is another thing completely to take this tool beyond that point. It seems to me that editors that like these reference templates ought to first decide whether any "special markup" for references, beyond simple italics, is specifically necessary and desireable across the board. If so, then there is no way this template can even begin to be usable across more than a simple percentage of articles. Don't use template to take the place of making software feature requests, like meta:Cite.php. If you expand the use of this template too far, you're only creating extra work for editors down the line. I'd encourage people to use this minimally and only for adding new references. Where possible, straightforward wikitext is better and complex meta-templates should be avoided, since they can be a barrier to new editors [8]. -- Netoholic @ 21:45, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
*{{Book reference | First = Ruth | Last = Lewin Sime | Year = 1996 | Title = Lise Meitner: A Life in Physics | Publisher = University of California Press | Location = Berkeley | ID = ISBN 0520089065 }}
*Ruth Lewin Sime, ''Lise Meitner: A Life in Physics'', Berkeley: University of California Press, 1996, ISBN 0520089065
Netoholic, I'm an editor that is very glad to use templates like Book reference whenever I can, instead of plain wikitext. The reason is that it helps me do a better job, more easily. It helps me gather all the relevant data, by giving me a list of parameters to fill out. It takes care of formatting, letting me concentrate on the content only. And I have confidence that in the future it will be easier for an automated mechanism to carry forward data from a structured template than plain wikitext. Templates as a mechanism have weaknesses, but I'm surprised that you seem to prefer no mechanism to this limited mechanism. What am I missing? -- Jdlh | Talk 02:49, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
The only template I can see is Citepaper, which is most unsatisfactory. Is it okay to use this template instead? ··gracefool | ☺ 10:41, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
This template needs some date and year attributes to show when the URL was last accessed, in case the link dies (as they often do). See Template:Web reference. Any time you have a URL, a date of last access is handy because it often means the page can be recovered through the Internet Archive. ··gracefool | ☺ 04:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
{{User:gracefool/Book reference test|...
. Please move
template:Book reference test to under your user space and then edit the remaining redirect at
template:book reference test and replace it if {{delete}}
. --
Adrian Buehlmann
08:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC)Someone please add the {{ Tdeprecated}} tag to this template. The new version is {{ cite book}}, which is easier to maintain because it only allows lowercase fields. It also adds a few necessary fields. {{Tdeprecated|cite book}} ··gracefool | ☺ 23:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I was reciently looking at an old revision of an article which used this template. Which unfortunatly made it imposible to see the actual reference. Would it be possible to change the template so its posible to at least see the basic info, with a less obtrusive depreication notice. -- Salix alba ( talk) 10:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please tag this redirect with {{
R with history}}
. Thanks!
Steel1943 (
talk)
23:57, 3 February 2019 (UTC)