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I appreciate that an article needs references, and they should be there. But when I tried to edit this article, I found the source very difficult to read because of the massive inline reference tags making it hard to find the actual article text. I started converting this article's reference tags to an indented format for improved source legibility, but there's been a revert dispute. Why must an editor strain their eyes combing wiki source for bits of article text between bloated reference tags? I've spent decades editing without a visual editor, and I'm not going to start using it now just to avoid spaghetti markup and write-only markup. - Gilgamesh ( talk) 23:00, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
@ Volcano345 The section on causes, as well as in the short description, presents the consensual hypothesis of meltwater flux as apparently a dismissed theory, then proceeds to elevate volcanism to the position of the main cause. This is inaccurate. If the editor is willing to look hard enough, one can always find articles that reject the mainstream theory. If no one objects, I hereby propose to rewrite the section to reflect the mainstream theory, namely the freshwater flux hypothesis. However, I will still retain paragraphs on volcanism for the possible role it played in triggering the Younger Dryas (YD). The mainstream theory on the cause of YD is fairly consensual:
IPCC report (2007) on Palaeoclimate [1]: Freshwater influx is the likely cause for the cold events at the end of the last ice age, i.e. the Younger Dryas (p. 456)
Encyclopedia of Quaternary Science (2013) on Palaeoclimate [2]: The northward retreat of the southern margin of the Laurentide Ice Sheet from the Great Lakes caused a routing of freshwater from the western Canadian Plains from the Mississippi River to the St. Lawrence River, with the increased freshwater discharge to the North Atlantic slowing ocean circulation and ultimately causing the Younger Dryas (abstract)
NOAA on the cause of YD [3]: just prior to the Younger Dryas, meltwater fluxes were rerouted from the Mississippi River to the St. Lawrence River (p. 2)
Annual Review of Marine Science (2017) on AMOC [4]: most of the evidence is consistent with the long-standing hypothesis that the Younger Dryas cold event was caused by the routing of glacial meltwater into the North Atlantic (p. 98) Aleral Wei ( talk) 07:22, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
A significant issue exists between the Younger Dryas Impact hypothesis article and that of this article regarding the mainstream explanation for the onset of the Younger Dryas as detailed below. This post ends with a proposed set of actions to resolve this issue, and proposes making this article the source of the (current) mainstream explanation(s) and that discussions occur on this talk page.
The first sentence of the second paragraph of the Summary of the YDIH article
"It is an alternative to the long-standing and widely accepted explanation that it was caused by a significant reduction in, or shutdown of the North Atlantic Conveyor due to a sudden influx of freshwater from Lake Agassiz and deglaciation in North America. [1] [2] [3] [4]"
contradicts the first paragraph of the Younger Dryas Cause section
"The Younger Dryas has historically been thought to have been caused by significant reduction or shutdown of the North Atlantic "Conveyor" – which circulates warm tropical waters northward – as the consequence of deglaciation in North America and a sudden influx of fresh water from Lake Agassiz. ... The lack of geological evidence for such an event [2] stimulated further exploration, but no consensus exists on the precise source of the freshwater, and in fact the freshwater pulse hypothesis has recently been called into question. ... The lack of consensus regarding the origin of the freshwater, combined with the lack of evidence for sea level rise during the Younger Dryas, [5] are problematic for any hypothesis where the Younger Dryas was triggered by floodwater."
(See the Younger Dryas Cause section for the citations and the text indicated by "..." above.)
The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis Other explanations section, has several issues as well.
The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis Mainstream explanation section also contradicts the first paragraph of the Younger Dryas Cause section .
The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis Other alternatives section has the following issues:
contradicts the last two paragraphs of Younger Dryas Cause section that contain the following text:
"An increasingly well-supported alternative to the meltwater trigger is that the Younger Dryas was triggered by volcanism. Numerous papers now confidently link volcanism to a variety of cold events across the last two millennia and the Holocene, and in particular several note the ability of volcanic eruptions to trigger climate change lasting for centuries to millennia. .... Regardless of the ambiguity surrounding the date for the Laacher See eruption, it almost certainly caused substantial cooling either immediately before the Younger Dryas event or as one of the several eruptions which clustered in the ~100 years preceding the event."
"A volcanic trigger for the Younger Dryas event also explains why there was little sea level change at the beginning of the event. ... No consensus exists that a meltwater pulse happened, or that a bolide impact occurred prior to the Younger Dryas, whereas the evidence of anomalously strong volcanism prior to the Younger Dryas event is now very strong. ..."
(See the Younger Dryas Cause section for the citations and the text indicated by "..."
In order to resolve the above issues, I propose the following:
Comments? Dmcdysan ( talk) 21:11, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
References
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I appreciate that an article needs references, and they should be there. But when I tried to edit this article, I found the source very difficult to read because of the massive inline reference tags making it hard to find the actual article text. I started converting this article's reference tags to an indented format for improved source legibility, but there's been a revert dispute. Why must an editor strain their eyes combing wiki source for bits of article text between bloated reference tags? I've spent decades editing without a visual editor, and I'm not going to start using it now just to avoid spaghetti markup and write-only markup. - Gilgamesh ( talk) 23:00, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
@ Volcano345 The section on causes, as well as in the short description, presents the consensual hypothesis of meltwater flux as apparently a dismissed theory, then proceeds to elevate volcanism to the position of the main cause. This is inaccurate. If the editor is willing to look hard enough, one can always find articles that reject the mainstream theory. If no one objects, I hereby propose to rewrite the section to reflect the mainstream theory, namely the freshwater flux hypothesis. However, I will still retain paragraphs on volcanism for the possible role it played in triggering the Younger Dryas (YD). The mainstream theory on the cause of YD is fairly consensual:
IPCC report (2007) on Palaeoclimate [1]: Freshwater influx is the likely cause for the cold events at the end of the last ice age, i.e. the Younger Dryas (p. 456)
Encyclopedia of Quaternary Science (2013) on Palaeoclimate [2]: The northward retreat of the southern margin of the Laurentide Ice Sheet from the Great Lakes caused a routing of freshwater from the western Canadian Plains from the Mississippi River to the St. Lawrence River, with the increased freshwater discharge to the North Atlantic slowing ocean circulation and ultimately causing the Younger Dryas (abstract)
NOAA on the cause of YD [3]: just prior to the Younger Dryas, meltwater fluxes were rerouted from the Mississippi River to the St. Lawrence River (p. 2)
Annual Review of Marine Science (2017) on AMOC [4]: most of the evidence is consistent with the long-standing hypothesis that the Younger Dryas cold event was caused by the routing of glacial meltwater into the North Atlantic (p. 98) Aleral Wei ( talk) 07:22, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
A significant issue exists between the Younger Dryas Impact hypothesis article and that of this article regarding the mainstream explanation for the onset of the Younger Dryas as detailed below. This post ends with a proposed set of actions to resolve this issue, and proposes making this article the source of the (current) mainstream explanation(s) and that discussions occur on this talk page.
The first sentence of the second paragraph of the Summary of the YDIH article
"It is an alternative to the long-standing and widely accepted explanation that it was caused by a significant reduction in, or shutdown of the North Atlantic Conveyor due to a sudden influx of freshwater from Lake Agassiz and deglaciation in North America. [1] [2] [3] [4]"
contradicts the first paragraph of the Younger Dryas Cause section
"The Younger Dryas has historically been thought to have been caused by significant reduction or shutdown of the North Atlantic "Conveyor" – which circulates warm tropical waters northward – as the consequence of deglaciation in North America and a sudden influx of fresh water from Lake Agassiz. ... The lack of geological evidence for such an event [2] stimulated further exploration, but no consensus exists on the precise source of the freshwater, and in fact the freshwater pulse hypothesis has recently been called into question. ... The lack of consensus regarding the origin of the freshwater, combined with the lack of evidence for sea level rise during the Younger Dryas, [5] are problematic for any hypothesis where the Younger Dryas was triggered by floodwater."
(See the Younger Dryas Cause section for the citations and the text indicated by "..." above.)
The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis Other explanations section, has several issues as well.
The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis Mainstream explanation section also contradicts the first paragraph of the Younger Dryas Cause section .
The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis Other alternatives section has the following issues:
contradicts the last two paragraphs of Younger Dryas Cause section that contain the following text:
"An increasingly well-supported alternative to the meltwater trigger is that the Younger Dryas was triggered by volcanism. Numerous papers now confidently link volcanism to a variety of cold events across the last two millennia and the Holocene, and in particular several note the ability of volcanic eruptions to trigger climate change lasting for centuries to millennia. .... Regardless of the ambiguity surrounding the date for the Laacher See eruption, it almost certainly caused substantial cooling either immediately before the Younger Dryas event or as one of the several eruptions which clustered in the ~100 years preceding the event."
"A volcanic trigger for the Younger Dryas event also explains why there was little sea level change at the beginning of the event. ... No consensus exists that a meltwater pulse happened, or that a bolide impact occurred prior to the Younger Dryas, whereas the evidence of anomalously strong volcanism prior to the Younger Dryas event is now very strong. ..."
(See the Younger Dryas Cause section for the citations and the text indicated by "..."
In order to resolve the above issues, I propose the following:
Comments? Dmcdysan ( talk) 21:11, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
References