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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Smash160.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 05:18, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Was Yiddish ever written with the Cyrillic alphabet in the Soviet Union? Angr ( talk • contribs) 11:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Isn't yidish (for example) written ייִדיש? If so, then the first yud is a consonant, and the khirik yud is a vowel that's being written between two consonants and not part of a diphthong. That's why the description was changed to say "or next to the y sounding yud". What are examples of khirik yud being used following a stressed vowel or part of a stressed diphthong? Angr ( talk) 08:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
The article is now being flagged for excessive length. Does anyone object to my moving the material about typography to a separate article? -- futhark 08:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Second thoughts. Please see Talk:Yiddish_typography -- futhark 09:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Unless anybody feels it to be inappropriate, I'm going to move the material about Solomon Birnbaum's work on Yiddish orthography from the present article to the one headed by his name. I'll probably also expand it there with a fuller specification of his transcription system. -- Futhark| Talk 11:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The pic [KJ bus stop sign.jpg] (in the current article) does not writen in Yiddisch. Its pure English with Hebrew alphabet. ( 0). Jiddisch 10:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
This article doesn't say if Yiddish text flows from left to right, or from right to left. That is rather fundamental, I think! It should expend three or four words in the first paragraph on this point. Hu ( talk) 06:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand why all these romanization systems focus on the use of the roman alphabet in English rather than the German use. It would make much more sense to stick to the way the words are written in German, as this is the closest related language. The idea that spelling has to represent pronunciation and then stick to the way English-speakers pronounce the various letters is more than just odd. -- 193.171.131.238 ( talk) 12:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
·
לערי ריינהארט·
T·
m:
Th·
T·
email me· 13:26, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi! How is the proper abbreviation of "un azoy vayter", "rekhts nokh links" etc. רנל׳׳ (and רנל״ using the precombined - HEBREW PUNCTUATION GERSHAYIM (U+05F4) - which is changed by MediaWiki software because of Unicode normalisation) character is wrong. I have been told to punctuate underneath the letters but was not asking what character I should use. Thanks for any help.
references:
Regards · לערי ריינהארט· T· m: Th· T· email me· 13:26, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone know the translation of pasekh, komets, or other words that are part of the names of some letters?? Georgia guy ( talk) 22:44, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
by L. L. Zamenhof, later published in Lebn un Visnshaft, Vilnius, 1909: see this paragraph of the article about Zamenhof. — Tonymec ( talk) 23:27, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
The Standard Yiddish Orthography is a document maintained by YIVO with normative intent. The section of the article under that heading reports the contents of the SYO. It cannot be amended with reference to external sources. The article treats other sets of orthographic rules at length, including Harkavy's work. A more extensive discussion of his approach might well enhance the value of the article but it cannot simply be injected into, and thereby corrupt, a table taken from the SYO. Please also keep in mind that this is an article on Yiddish orthography with a separate one covering dialectal variation.-- Futhark| Talk 23:25, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I note that for "lange nun" in the table it shows "m" as a possible pronunciation. I think this is an error; it is pronounced "n" in all cases. I've seen many textbook and never seen it shown thus.
I just removed a need-for-improvement tag added in Nov 2017 for the reason: "Article lacks information about Yiddish written in Latin script (i.e. properly written in Latin script and not just as a transcription or transliteration). (See e.g. www.jewish-archives.org/content/titleinfo/12372?lang=en (Joseph Ahrons' Das Lied vun die Kuggel): "Westjiddisch in deutscher Schrift".)" Nothing in that source indicates anything other than that it provides a transcription — in the sense described in the present article — of a Yiddish text into German. If there is any form of transcription into Latin script beyond that it should be explained and discussed here before replacing the maintenance tag. -- Futhark| Talk 07:47, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
I added some discussion of their use in Yiddish to the articles on Aleph, Vov, and Yud. But I'm only familiar with the YIVO-promulgated standard, and those new sections could therefore use some attention from editors with more knowledge of the range of variation in Yiddish orthographic practice, to enable a more nuanced discussion. AJD ( talk) 07:00, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
This poster (which was POTD in 2011 and still is on display in Yiddish#20th century) uses an orthography very different from that used otherwise. It appears largely as a transliteration of German, even transliterating the signs for vowel lengthening, cf.
It seems to me that there are also many inconsistencies:
In my admittedly goyish view, I'm not so sure about the language itself, with “מוזען” instead of darfn, apparently just taken directly from German.
Is that an interesting specimen of Yiddish orthography or just a bad example? ◄ Sebastian 10:02, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
דאָס פֿעלט אין דער ביבליאָגראַפֿיע
Gold, David L. 1977. “Successes and Failures in the Standardization and Implementation of Yiddish Spelling and Romanization.” In Fishman 1977:307-369.
Fishman, Joshua A., ed. 1977. Advances in the Creation and Revision of Writing Systems. The Hague Mouton.
Gold, David L. 1985. "A Guide to the Standardized Yiddish Romanization." Jewish Language Review. Vol. 5. Pp. 96-103. S. Valkemirer ( talk) 03:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
but as “פ” in “געפינען”
דאָס איז טאַקע געפֿינען, ניט געװינען
you [= immigrants] came here to F I N D freedom S. Valkemirer ( talk) 02:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Currently: His own work uses the form שלום־עליכם but in Soviet publication this is respelled phonetically to שאָלעמ־אלײכעמ also dispensing with the separate final-form mem and using the initial/medial form instead. This can be seen, together with a respelling of the name of the protagonist of his Tevye der milkhiker (originally שאָלעמ־אלײכעמטביה, changed to שאָלעמ־אלײכעמטעוויע)
The Yiddish text after Tevye der Milkhiker says Sholom Aleichem, apparently copied from the previous text. I'd supply the correct text here, but I have no idea how to spell it correctly, and no idea how to type it if I could.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Smash160.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 05:18, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Was Yiddish ever written with the Cyrillic alphabet in the Soviet Union? Angr ( talk • contribs) 11:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Isn't yidish (for example) written ייִדיש? If so, then the first yud is a consonant, and the khirik yud is a vowel that's being written between two consonants and not part of a diphthong. That's why the description was changed to say "or next to the y sounding yud". What are examples of khirik yud being used following a stressed vowel or part of a stressed diphthong? Angr ( talk) 08:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
The article is now being flagged for excessive length. Does anyone object to my moving the material about typography to a separate article? -- futhark 08:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Second thoughts. Please see Talk:Yiddish_typography -- futhark 09:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Unless anybody feels it to be inappropriate, I'm going to move the material about Solomon Birnbaum's work on Yiddish orthography from the present article to the one headed by his name. I'll probably also expand it there with a fuller specification of his transcription system. -- Futhark| Talk 11:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The pic [KJ bus stop sign.jpg] (in the current article) does not writen in Yiddisch. Its pure English with Hebrew alphabet. ( 0). Jiddisch 10:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
This article doesn't say if Yiddish text flows from left to right, or from right to left. That is rather fundamental, I think! It should expend three or four words in the first paragraph on this point. Hu ( talk) 06:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand why all these romanization systems focus on the use of the roman alphabet in English rather than the German use. It would make much more sense to stick to the way the words are written in German, as this is the closest related language. The idea that spelling has to represent pronunciation and then stick to the way English-speakers pronounce the various letters is more than just odd. -- 193.171.131.238 ( talk) 12:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
·
לערי ריינהארט·
T·
m:
Th·
T·
email me· 13:26, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi! How is the proper abbreviation of "un azoy vayter", "rekhts nokh links" etc. רנל׳׳ (and רנל״ using the precombined - HEBREW PUNCTUATION GERSHAYIM (U+05F4) - which is changed by MediaWiki software because of Unicode normalisation) character is wrong. I have been told to punctuate underneath the letters but was not asking what character I should use. Thanks for any help.
references:
Regards · לערי ריינהארט· T· m: Th· T· email me· 13:26, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone know the translation of pasekh, komets, or other words that are part of the names of some letters?? Georgia guy ( talk) 22:44, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
by L. L. Zamenhof, later published in Lebn un Visnshaft, Vilnius, 1909: see this paragraph of the article about Zamenhof. — Tonymec ( talk) 23:27, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
The Standard Yiddish Orthography is a document maintained by YIVO with normative intent. The section of the article under that heading reports the contents of the SYO. It cannot be amended with reference to external sources. The article treats other sets of orthographic rules at length, including Harkavy's work. A more extensive discussion of his approach might well enhance the value of the article but it cannot simply be injected into, and thereby corrupt, a table taken from the SYO. Please also keep in mind that this is an article on Yiddish orthography with a separate one covering dialectal variation.-- Futhark| Talk 23:25, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I note that for "lange nun" in the table it shows "m" as a possible pronunciation. I think this is an error; it is pronounced "n" in all cases. I've seen many textbook and never seen it shown thus.
I just removed a need-for-improvement tag added in Nov 2017 for the reason: "Article lacks information about Yiddish written in Latin script (i.e. properly written in Latin script and not just as a transcription or transliteration). (See e.g. www.jewish-archives.org/content/titleinfo/12372?lang=en (Joseph Ahrons' Das Lied vun die Kuggel): "Westjiddisch in deutscher Schrift".)" Nothing in that source indicates anything other than that it provides a transcription — in the sense described in the present article — of a Yiddish text into German. If there is any form of transcription into Latin script beyond that it should be explained and discussed here before replacing the maintenance tag. -- Futhark| Talk 07:47, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
I added some discussion of their use in Yiddish to the articles on Aleph, Vov, and Yud. But I'm only familiar with the YIVO-promulgated standard, and those new sections could therefore use some attention from editors with more knowledge of the range of variation in Yiddish orthographic practice, to enable a more nuanced discussion. AJD ( talk) 07:00, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
This poster (which was POTD in 2011 and still is on display in Yiddish#20th century) uses an orthography very different from that used otherwise. It appears largely as a transliteration of German, even transliterating the signs for vowel lengthening, cf.
It seems to me that there are also many inconsistencies:
In my admittedly goyish view, I'm not so sure about the language itself, with “מוזען” instead of darfn, apparently just taken directly from German.
Is that an interesting specimen of Yiddish orthography or just a bad example? ◄ Sebastian 10:02, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
דאָס פֿעלט אין דער ביבליאָגראַפֿיע
Gold, David L. 1977. “Successes and Failures in the Standardization and Implementation of Yiddish Spelling and Romanization.” In Fishman 1977:307-369.
Fishman, Joshua A., ed. 1977. Advances in the Creation and Revision of Writing Systems. The Hague Mouton.
Gold, David L. 1985. "A Guide to the Standardized Yiddish Romanization." Jewish Language Review. Vol. 5. Pp. 96-103. S. Valkemirer ( talk) 03:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
but as “פ” in “געפינען”
דאָס איז טאַקע געפֿינען, ניט געװינען
you [= immigrants] came here to F I N D freedom S. Valkemirer ( talk) 02:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Currently: His own work uses the form שלום־עליכם but in Soviet publication this is respelled phonetically to שאָלעמ־אלײכעמ also dispensing with the separate final-form mem and using the initial/medial form instead. This can be seen, together with a respelling of the name of the protagonist of his Tevye der milkhiker (originally שאָלעמ־אלײכעמטביה, changed to שאָלעמ־אלײכעמטעוויע)
The Yiddish text after Tevye der Milkhiker says Sholom Aleichem, apparently copied from the previous text. I'd supply the correct text here, but I have no idea how to spell it correctly, and no idea how to type it if I could.