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A fact from Wedding dress of Queen Victoria appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 7 May 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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The association of the dress' color with innocence or childhood came later (and the beliefs about virginity stem from this "innocence", i.e., sexual innocence). High-quality sociological and historical sources indicate that at the time Victoria made her choice, white dresses—and particularly white lace dresses like this one—were a form of conspicuous consumption rather than a desire to evoke child-like innocence. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 06:14, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
These photos are not of Victoria in her wedding dress. For one thing, photography was in its infancy and the earliest known photograph of her dates from 1845. The two photos shown here are of Victoria (and Albert) in court dress taken by Roger Fenton on 11 May 1854:
http://royalcollection.org.uk/microsites/royalweddings/object.asp?row=21&exhibs=WedQVPA&item=22
http://royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/object.asp?searchText=2906513&x=0&y=0&object=2906513
It is sometimes claimed that this photo was taken "years later in her wedding dress" because she loved it so much, but it is court dress. She did, however, love the hand-made lace of the dress so much that she re-used it over and over, and it can be seen in some of her Jubilee portraits.
As for the white wedding dress, Victoria chose to wear court dress (which is white) for her wedding. Previous royal brides wore cloth of gold or silver. Victoria's dress (and several others) are being conserved and put on display at Kensington Palace:
http://www.hrp.org.uk/NewsAndMedia/kpresources/Historicweddingdressesgiventheroyaltreatment.aspx
http://www.hrp.org.uk/MediaPlayer/ViewPlaylist.aspx?PlaylistId=125
There is at least one painted portrait of Victoria in her wedding dress, by Winterhalter in 1847 as an anniversary gift for Albert. The 1842 portrait is sometimes identified as Victoria in her wedding dress, and the dress looks similar, but the official description at the Royal Collection does not specify that it is the wedding dress. The Royal Collection also includes some other prints, paintings, and objects from this wedding.
http://royalcollection.org.uk/microsites/royalweddings/
Finally, there are some great images here, but all the info is not necessarily accurate (e.g., it claims that the 1854 court dress photograph is the wedding dress):
http://thedreamstress.com/2011/04/queen-victorias-wedding-dress-the-one-that-started-it-all/
Laura1822 ( talk) 22:11, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Amandajm ( talk) 07:56, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Look, if you have a problem with an article, fix it!!!! There is no use moaning about it here give that neither I or Nvvchar are watching this page and had clearly not seen Laura's post. Laura should have taken the initiative to remove the photos on May 2 herself. This is what wikipedia is about, people more knowledgeable fix errors and build on what has been started. If you have a problem with the quality of writing, improve it!! Plain and simple... ♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:32, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the claim that white was a color of mourning. This distinctly dubious claim is sourced to a blog at a newspaper. The blog cites as its source a book printed almost 100 years ago. That book gives exactly one example of white being used as a color of mourning—in 1393 (447 years before Victoria's wedding), in France (a completely different country), and only during one specific funeral for an exiled monarch (a very unusual situation). The same underlying source gives many examples of black being used as the primary color of mourning during the Middle Ages (which ended in the 15th century, and is therefore irrelevant to the choice Victoria made in the middle of the 19th century).
Although "white mourning" was the primary color for deep mourning during the Middle ages, it had long been the normal color for normal children's clothing (because it didn't fade when washed), and by the 19th century, it was the normal color for young women and among adults was sometimes used as a color of half-mourning (along with gray and violet). Black was the primary color of mourning in the 19th century, and even in the 18th century. Consider, for example, this declaration of public mourning in the London Post of 1702: "Yesterday an Order was published, by Her Majesty’s Royal Pleasure, That all persons, upon the death of His Late Majesty King William, do put themselves into the deepest mourning that may be, on Sunday next: And that for the incouragement of our English lutestring and a-la-mode manufacture, hatbands of black English a-la-mode, cover’d with crape, will be allow’d as full and proper mourning, &c." The possibility of wearing white for primary mourning isn't even mentioned; the practice had died out in England more than a century before Victoria's birth.
Victoria's choice of color was surprising, but only because royal weddings had previously involved cloth of gold, purple, red, and other expensive colors, not because it was associated with mourning. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 17:26, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I've removed this file from the article during the rewrite, but thought I should explain my reasoning here - although the file DOES say "Queen Victoria wedding dress", it isn't the dress. Her wedding dress is well-documented (not least by the fact it has actually survived) as plain white satin, whilst the dress in the photograph is an all-over richly patterned fabric - the link used as reference went to another photograph of the wedding reenactments here - which actually shows a photo of Victoria in a completely different dress. I realise to a lot of people all big white fluffy dresses probably look the same, but trust me, they're all different, just ask any Bridezilla. ;) I've also removed and replaced a lot of the original references, which were for books like this and this - far from the most sterling or reputable sources for references, especially for a subject that has been widely documented. I apologise if I have stepped on anyone's toes here, but accuracy and verifiability is more important than promoting what appears to be a self-published book without even a preview to verify it contains supporting info.
The reference for the reenactments was: "Royal weddings in history", Daily Telegraph - but I would want to see something more reliable and authoritative than this, because newspapers tend not to be reliable when it comes to things like this. The Royal Collection list the photograph here - with a question mark beside "wedding dress". If it was THE wedding dress, they would say so. The other photograph, used on the Telegraph site, is described by the Royal Collection as "court dress"- no mention of it being reenactment and a question mark by "wedding dress". A later addition of text is adapted from a recent publication about the love between Victoria and Albert, so if it was a wedding reenactment I'm sure it would have been said so clearly. So I don't think it is appropriate to claim without definitive sources that they re-enacted their wedding in 1854 (or whenever) - regardless of what it LOOKS like to a journalist. Mabalu ( talk) 12:36, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Wedding dress of Queen Victoria appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 7 May 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
The association of the dress' color with innocence or childhood came later (and the beliefs about virginity stem from this "innocence", i.e., sexual innocence). High-quality sociological and historical sources indicate that at the time Victoria made her choice, white dresses—and particularly white lace dresses like this one—were a form of conspicuous consumption rather than a desire to evoke child-like innocence. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 06:14, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
These photos are not of Victoria in her wedding dress. For one thing, photography was in its infancy and the earliest known photograph of her dates from 1845. The two photos shown here are of Victoria (and Albert) in court dress taken by Roger Fenton on 11 May 1854:
http://royalcollection.org.uk/microsites/royalweddings/object.asp?row=21&exhibs=WedQVPA&item=22
http://royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/object.asp?searchText=2906513&x=0&y=0&object=2906513
It is sometimes claimed that this photo was taken "years later in her wedding dress" because she loved it so much, but it is court dress. She did, however, love the hand-made lace of the dress so much that she re-used it over and over, and it can be seen in some of her Jubilee portraits.
As for the white wedding dress, Victoria chose to wear court dress (which is white) for her wedding. Previous royal brides wore cloth of gold or silver. Victoria's dress (and several others) are being conserved and put on display at Kensington Palace:
http://www.hrp.org.uk/NewsAndMedia/kpresources/Historicweddingdressesgiventheroyaltreatment.aspx
http://www.hrp.org.uk/MediaPlayer/ViewPlaylist.aspx?PlaylistId=125
There is at least one painted portrait of Victoria in her wedding dress, by Winterhalter in 1847 as an anniversary gift for Albert. The 1842 portrait is sometimes identified as Victoria in her wedding dress, and the dress looks similar, but the official description at the Royal Collection does not specify that it is the wedding dress. The Royal Collection also includes some other prints, paintings, and objects from this wedding.
http://royalcollection.org.uk/microsites/royalweddings/
Finally, there are some great images here, but all the info is not necessarily accurate (e.g., it claims that the 1854 court dress photograph is the wedding dress):
http://thedreamstress.com/2011/04/queen-victorias-wedding-dress-the-one-that-started-it-all/
Laura1822 ( talk) 22:11, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Amandajm ( talk) 07:56, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Look, if you have a problem with an article, fix it!!!! There is no use moaning about it here give that neither I or Nvvchar are watching this page and had clearly not seen Laura's post. Laura should have taken the initiative to remove the photos on May 2 herself. This is what wikipedia is about, people more knowledgeable fix errors and build on what has been started. If you have a problem with the quality of writing, improve it!! Plain and simple... ♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:32, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the claim that white was a color of mourning. This distinctly dubious claim is sourced to a blog at a newspaper. The blog cites as its source a book printed almost 100 years ago. That book gives exactly one example of white being used as a color of mourning—in 1393 (447 years before Victoria's wedding), in France (a completely different country), and only during one specific funeral for an exiled monarch (a very unusual situation). The same underlying source gives many examples of black being used as the primary color of mourning during the Middle Ages (which ended in the 15th century, and is therefore irrelevant to the choice Victoria made in the middle of the 19th century).
Although "white mourning" was the primary color for deep mourning during the Middle ages, it had long been the normal color for normal children's clothing (because it didn't fade when washed), and by the 19th century, it was the normal color for young women and among adults was sometimes used as a color of half-mourning (along with gray and violet). Black was the primary color of mourning in the 19th century, and even in the 18th century. Consider, for example, this declaration of public mourning in the London Post of 1702: "Yesterday an Order was published, by Her Majesty’s Royal Pleasure, That all persons, upon the death of His Late Majesty King William, do put themselves into the deepest mourning that may be, on Sunday next: And that for the incouragement of our English lutestring and a-la-mode manufacture, hatbands of black English a-la-mode, cover’d with crape, will be allow’d as full and proper mourning, &c." The possibility of wearing white for primary mourning isn't even mentioned; the practice had died out in England more than a century before Victoria's birth.
Victoria's choice of color was surprising, but only because royal weddings had previously involved cloth of gold, purple, red, and other expensive colors, not because it was associated with mourning. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 17:26, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I've removed this file from the article during the rewrite, but thought I should explain my reasoning here - although the file DOES say "Queen Victoria wedding dress", it isn't the dress. Her wedding dress is well-documented (not least by the fact it has actually survived) as plain white satin, whilst the dress in the photograph is an all-over richly patterned fabric - the link used as reference went to another photograph of the wedding reenactments here - which actually shows a photo of Victoria in a completely different dress. I realise to a lot of people all big white fluffy dresses probably look the same, but trust me, they're all different, just ask any Bridezilla. ;) I've also removed and replaced a lot of the original references, which were for books like this and this - far from the most sterling or reputable sources for references, especially for a subject that has been widely documented. I apologise if I have stepped on anyone's toes here, but accuracy and verifiability is more important than promoting what appears to be a self-published book without even a preview to verify it contains supporting info.
The reference for the reenactments was: "Royal weddings in history", Daily Telegraph - but I would want to see something more reliable and authoritative than this, because newspapers tend not to be reliable when it comes to things like this. The Royal Collection list the photograph here - with a question mark beside "wedding dress". If it was THE wedding dress, they would say so. The other photograph, used on the Telegraph site, is described by the Royal Collection as "court dress"- no mention of it being reenactment and a question mark by "wedding dress". A later addition of text is adapted from a recent publication about the love between Victoria and Albert, so if it was a wedding reenactment I'm sure it would have been said so clearly. So I don't think it is appropriate to claim without definitive sources that they re-enacted their wedding in 1854 (or whenever) - regardless of what it LOOKS like to a journalist. Mabalu ( talk) 12:36, 5 June 2013 (UTC)