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Hey @ Tiptoethrutheminefield: I reverted two of your edits as I though they were WP:OR. However, if you can explain how it was not violating the guidelines please discuss it here before doing further edits. -- Mhhossein talk 16:57, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
"The Wahhabis referred to themselves as 'Muslims', as Ibn Bishr did, since they did not consider others to be Muslims."This version has the benefit of being strongly in accordance with the source. -- Mhhossein talk 06:38, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
"because Wahhabis call themselves Muslims to the exclusion of others."Moreover, I refer you to this source where it says "It is significant that whenever the term "Muslims" occurs in `Uthman b. `Abdullah b. Bishr's chronicle, `Unwan al-Majd fi Tarikh Najd, it refers exclusively to the Wahhabis. But the Wahhabi dismissal of all Muslims other than themselves as non-believers is of more than historical significance." Finally, we are not talking about their understanding of 'Jihad' and I have no idea about it. -- Mhhossein talk 14:35, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
"Ibn Bishr emphasized the world 'Muslim' in the above quote to signify the Wahhabis, because Wahhabis call themselves Muslims to the exclusion of others."? As you already confessed above, 'others' refers to 'all other Muslims except Wahhabis' and the author never intended to restrict this Wahhabi dismissal belief toward "Shia Karbala inhabitants" as you are insisting. -- Mhhossein talk 04:50, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
It is not original research. (Everyone except Wahhabis) clearly does include the Shia inhabitants of Karbala, while not being limited to them. And, those who suffered in the massacre were mostly (presumably not all) Shia inhabitants of Karbala. We may debate exactly what form of words to use, but we may legitimately write "Shia inhabitants of Karbala" if we want to. And, alternatively, we may fairly use short quotations where they are appropriate. What exact changes to the article would you two suggest? Richard Keatinge ( talk) 16:08, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
At the moment we do not have text in the article that says why the Wahabbi army attacked and sacked Karbala and paid such special attention to killing as many of its Shia inhabitants as possible, killing thousands including women and children. It was because the Wahhabis did not consider the Shia Muslim inhabitants of Karbala to be Muslims. There are plenty of sources that say this. Such as "Muslims had, therefore, been traditionally wary of takfir, the practice of declaring a fellow Muslim to be an unbeliever (kafir)". "Abd al-Aziz Ibn Muhammad, Ibn Saud’s son and successor, used takfir to justify the wholesale slaughter of resistant populations. In 1801, his army sacked the holy Shia city of Karbala in what is now Iraq, plundered the tomb of Imam Husain, and slaughtered thousands of Shias, including women and children", a quote from "Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism", New Statesman, 27 November 2014
[3]. "At that time, Shias, regarded as infidels by the Wahhabis, has been forbidden passage through Najd ..." page 59, "Kuwait: prospect and reality", Harry Victor Frederick Winstone, Zahra Dickson Freeth, 1972. "The massacre was viewed as an atrocity by the outraged Sunni scholars in Baghdad, who had their disagreements with the Shia but did not consider them as being either apostates or heretics. They condemned the slaying of innocent Muslims, almost to a man". page 135, "The Arabs of the Ottoman Empire, 1516–1918: A Social and Cultural History", Bruce Masters, 2013. What we do have in the article is a quote containing a contemporary account of the arrack from the attackers' viewpoint and an explanation about the usage of the word "Muslims" in that account. These are both lifted unchanged from a single source, which is more than fair use can justify. There would be no need to go into the explanation to this depth if there was content that actually explained why the Wahhabis were there.
Tiptoethrutheminefield (
talk) 19:50, 12 September 2016 (UTC) Blocked sock:
Meowy.
I'll revert your un-discussed edit. The incident can not be counted as a military conflict. Wahhabis faced no resistance and in fact there were no conflict were both sides are involved. I hope this revert does not offend you. However, we may consider this issue further more if you still think other wise. -- Mhhossein talk 16:40, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
The editor Mhossein keep unilaterally making changes. He added "Islamic fundamentalism" as a motive. Ever since rise of ISIS, some people have started tagging Islamist extremism or fundamentalism to attacks without proper sources or sources saying what they claim. The source he used [4] however nowhere itself calls it "Islamic fundamentalism". However it makes no such claim like "Wahhabis attacked Karbala because they were against Shi'ites". At most what it says is "who regarded the Shi'ites reverence of the Imams as polytheism". That's it, nothing else and it doesn't claim they attacked strictly because of it or because of it. Simply because they have negative attitudes doesn't mean we can add whatever we want in the motive. Also the article itself cites that Karbala was also rich, claiming it as another reason [5]. This also gives the weakned defences as a possible reason. In this case it is completely unfair to mention one reason, and neglect the other. The only one near to is only this book [6], which says that Wahhabis didn't limit themselves to academic confrontation but doesn't claim it as an explicit cause for it.
In addition, even if it said they attacked Karbala because of it, at most it will be "Sectarianism". Calling sectarian feud as "fundamentalism" especially by yourself is completely OR. There are many articles relating to sectarian violence but that doesn't make them automatically fundamentalism. Have you seen anyone use "Christian fundamentalism" here or any other religion? No, because that will be unsourced and OR.
He is also priortizing one source over the other through his edits. That is wrong as all views must be presented. This raises serious doubts about his actions. The edits are OR and shouldn't be added. Besides, we shouldn't compare archaic raids to modern attacks that too on our own. The destruction and killing may have something to do with sectarianism but that doesn't make the whole raid simply based on one thing. There is additionally primary source attesting these reasons. There claiming any such thing aboit a vwry old raid is OR and self-interpertation. Serious rule violation is going on here. 117.215.225.19 ( talk) 16:51, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Mhhossein You are making claims based on sources not present in the article. Let me clarify something which you don't see clearly. What you are claiming is "sectarianism" and not "fundamentalism" in itself.:
1) All you presented in the book Longman guide to living religion was a search term "sacking Shi'ite". All it says "Shi'ism was attacked" in reference to Shia majority population of Karbala. Of course there may be an ideological motivation for killimgs of civilians but it cannot be described as the only reason for the attack which has multiple. That at most is "sectarianism", calling it fundamentalism is OR and self-interpertation.
2) Brooking's "THE BLACK PRINCE: NAYEF BIN ABDUL-AZIZ" is talking about Wahhabis purging Ottoman era symbols in Mecca and Media they saw as deviant, the Karbala raid isn't given any reason. Their tribal armies conducted raids into today’s Iraq and pillaged the Shiite holy city of Karbala, then turned west and conquered the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, purging them of any symbols of Ottoman rule and anything that struck the Wahhabi faithful as deviationist.
The Online Opinon source is not even a hostorical and scholarly source that does historical research. Besides actually about the ideological motivation of military campaigns of First Saudi State since 1744 and contacts of Wahhabis with Sauds. Nowhere it explicity refers to it as the only reason.In 1744, Ibn Abd al-Wahhab forged an historic alliance with the Al-Saud clan and sanctified its drive to vanquish its rivals. In return, the Al-Saud supported campaigns by Wahhabi zealots to cleanse the land of "unbelievers". In 1801, Saudi-Wahhabi warriors crossed into present day Iraq and sacked the Shiite holy city of Karbala, killing more than 4,000 people.
Please only stick to scholarly and historical sources with proper historical research.
3) I already detailed the other reasons. The article itself states multiple reasons like its wealth and religion. Also the article itself cites that Karbala was also rich, claiming it as another reason [7]. This also gives the weakned defences as a possible reason. Isn't that forming your own POV and nelecting facts? We shouldn't edit based on our own opinions about anything. Please try to be careful. 59.96.132.131 ( talk) 20:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
I also suggest that instead of making any further reverts and removal we first discuss. I've constantly tried to strike a compromise and adjust with you. Earlier my change of the civilian attack infobox to military conflict was reverted, I let it go. My removal of the motive was reverted multiple times, I then simply added templates raising issues of original research and information not in source. Even that was removed. Let's discuss the thing instead of removals. 117.199.94.94 ( talk) 22:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Muhammad Ibn abd-al-Wahab (1703-1792) sought to return to the "fundamentals" of the tradition-the Quran, the Sunna, and the Hanbali school's legal positionsin reference to the "Islamic Fundamentalism". In reference to the Sack of Karbala it states
In 1802, they also attacked and destroyed the Shi'i Holy City of Karbala., but this sentence doesn't explicitly the motivations and could be where confusion has risen. What is established in the source is rather the groups ideology is Islamic fundamentalism, and it then goes onto to states examples. Emir of Wikipedia ( talk) 08:50, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
"accordingly"which clearly implies that those actions were in accordance with those of followers of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and hence Ibn Taymiyya. In other words, they destroyed many buildings in the peninsula and also attacked Karbala. -- Mhhossein talk 17:54, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Emir of Wikipedia How dare you impose your own version when discussion is ongoing? Please revert your own revert of mine now. Also what proof you are talking about? While you comment on "my English", please read the source carefully. Mhhossein claimed that the sentence about Karbala raid started woth "accordingly", however it's about destruction of tombs, shrines etc. and not Karbala attack. Your interpretation raises serious doubts about your own knowledge and you are misrepresenting the source. Read it again:
"Based in the Arabian Penisula, the Wahhabis, as his followers called, accordingly destroyed many mosques, shrines and tombs on the peninsula that they believed to be dedicated to the memory of Sufi saints."
Please revert you revert now. You didn't even wait for the RfC to be over. Stop edit-warring please yourself while blaming others. 61.1.82.149 ( talk) 20:07, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Mhhossein You have violated the rules again. Instead of discussing, you decided to remove the templates. You also added fanaticsm as a motive, despite tge source only saying based on an orientalist tthat the raid was an example of fanaticsm, not that it was the reason. You cannpt add just what you think is there. The duscussions about thd motive is ongoing, your edits are highly disruptive. Regardless we don't use such reasons. You are deciding what should be added and what is correct by your own. As such I have removed your edits till you discuss as you don't care for cooperation. Regardless of what reason you give, you cannot add or remove what you want even if you think you think you are correct. If you edit war then you will be complained. This is your last warning. Discuss first. 59.89.47.162 ( talk) 23:45, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Please not that
ARBSCW&ISIL/Ds are not in effect, limiting all users to
1RR. Thanks.
El_C 23:58, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Please note that ARBSCW&ISIL/Ds are now in effect, limiting all users to 1RR., and not
Please not that ARBSCW&ISIL/Ds are not in effect, limiting all users to 1RR.? Emir of Wikipedia ( talk) 10:35, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@ Shadowwarrior8: Hi, can you please provide an online url for your sources showing the content added here? The first source does not seem to be reliable and searching for the publisher, i.e. Madinah Publishers and Distributors, does not take you to the publisher website. The second source is by Routledge (not Taylor and Francis as you mentioned). -- Mhhossein talk 13:48, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Do the same for the content added [9], too. -- Mhhossein talk 13:50, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
I couldnt find an online url that freely displays the relevant pages.
Hence I have included the citations. Shadowwarrior8 ( talk) 14:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
From the Wahhabi Movement in India by Qiyamudin Ahmed page 29
QUOTE
"The Sharif of Makkah, the nominal deputy of the Turkish government,who was nearer the scene felt more concerned. An attempt was made to establish some sort of a dialogue with the followers of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab.. but no real under-standing could be worked out. On the contrary, an embargo was put on the free access of the latter's followers to Makkah during the Hajj. It was later removed and an agreement negotiated under which a kind of demarcation of spheres of influence was made and the safety of the Hajj pilgrims ensured. The arrangement was soon after upset when a pilgrimage party was robbed by 'Iraqi tribes' who had been instructed from 'the headquarters' in a bid to disturb the above-mentioned arrangement. Abdul Aziz bin Saud, in retaliation, attacked the 'Euphrates districts', and in April 1801 the city of Karbala. On the Hijaz side, Muhammad Saud, the son ofAbdul Aziz, carried on similar action, and in April l803 the holy city of Makkah itself was occupied. Further advance was temporarily stopped by the assassination of Abdul Aziz bin Saud in a mosque at Dar'iya by a Persian Shia'h as an act of personal vengeance for the happenings at Karbala."
END QUOTE
Biography and Mission of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab by Jalal Abu al Rab
QUOTE "Attacking Karbala, where extensive infringements on the Islamic creed and law were the rule of the day, was partly in retaliation for armed attacks by Iraqi tribes on 'Hajj caravans... The raid on Karbala was in retaliation for the attack on 'Hajj caravans and resulted in the destruction of polytheistic places of worship. It is doubtful that non-combatants, women or children were intentionally killed during this raid. Abdullah, the son of, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab stated that the stance taken was that women and children were not to be killed during war.." (Page 102-103) END QUOTE Shadowwarrior8 ( talk) 04:26, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Shadowwarrior8: Hi, do the sources you added to the image caption feature image too? -- Mhhossein talk 08:17, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS The article Wahhabi sack of Karbala, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.
|
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Wahhabi sack of Karbala appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 4 September 2016 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on April 21, 2017. |
|
|
Hey @ Tiptoethrutheminefield: I reverted two of your edits as I though they were WP:OR. However, if you can explain how it was not violating the guidelines please discuss it here before doing further edits. -- Mhhossein talk 16:57, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
"The Wahhabis referred to themselves as 'Muslims', as Ibn Bishr did, since they did not consider others to be Muslims."This version has the benefit of being strongly in accordance with the source. -- Mhhossein talk 06:38, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
"because Wahhabis call themselves Muslims to the exclusion of others."Moreover, I refer you to this source where it says "It is significant that whenever the term "Muslims" occurs in `Uthman b. `Abdullah b. Bishr's chronicle, `Unwan al-Majd fi Tarikh Najd, it refers exclusively to the Wahhabis. But the Wahhabi dismissal of all Muslims other than themselves as non-believers is of more than historical significance." Finally, we are not talking about their understanding of 'Jihad' and I have no idea about it. -- Mhhossein talk 14:35, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
"Ibn Bishr emphasized the world 'Muslim' in the above quote to signify the Wahhabis, because Wahhabis call themselves Muslims to the exclusion of others."? As you already confessed above, 'others' refers to 'all other Muslims except Wahhabis' and the author never intended to restrict this Wahhabi dismissal belief toward "Shia Karbala inhabitants" as you are insisting. -- Mhhossein talk 04:50, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
It is not original research. (Everyone except Wahhabis) clearly does include the Shia inhabitants of Karbala, while not being limited to them. And, those who suffered in the massacre were mostly (presumably not all) Shia inhabitants of Karbala. We may debate exactly what form of words to use, but we may legitimately write "Shia inhabitants of Karbala" if we want to. And, alternatively, we may fairly use short quotations where they are appropriate. What exact changes to the article would you two suggest? Richard Keatinge ( talk) 16:08, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
At the moment we do not have text in the article that says why the Wahabbi army attacked and sacked Karbala and paid such special attention to killing as many of its Shia inhabitants as possible, killing thousands including women and children. It was because the Wahhabis did not consider the Shia Muslim inhabitants of Karbala to be Muslims. There are plenty of sources that say this. Such as "Muslims had, therefore, been traditionally wary of takfir, the practice of declaring a fellow Muslim to be an unbeliever (kafir)". "Abd al-Aziz Ibn Muhammad, Ibn Saud’s son and successor, used takfir to justify the wholesale slaughter of resistant populations. In 1801, his army sacked the holy Shia city of Karbala in what is now Iraq, plundered the tomb of Imam Husain, and slaughtered thousands of Shias, including women and children", a quote from "Wahhabism to ISIS: how Saudi Arabia exported the main source of global terrorism", New Statesman, 27 November 2014
[3]. "At that time, Shias, regarded as infidels by the Wahhabis, has been forbidden passage through Najd ..." page 59, "Kuwait: prospect and reality", Harry Victor Frederick Winstone, Zahra Dickson Freeth, 1972. "The massacre was viewed as an atrocity by the outraged Sunni scholars in Baghdad, who had their disagreements with the Shia but did not consider them as being either apostates or heretics. They condemned the slaying of innocent Muslims, almost to a man". page 135, "The Arabs of the Ottoman Empire, 1516–1918: A Social and Cultural History", Bruce Masters, 2013. What we do have in the article is a quote containing a contemporary account of the arrack from the attackers' viewpoint and an explanation about the usage of the word "Muslims" in that account. These are both lifted unchanged from a single source, which is more than fair use can justify. There would be no need to go into the explanation to this depth if there was content that actually explained why the Wahhabis were there.
Tiptoethrutheminefield (
talk) 19:50, 12 September 2016 (UTC) Blocked sock:
Meowy.
I'll revert your un-discussed edit. The incident can not be counted as a military conflict. Wahhabis faced no resistance and in fact there were no conflict were both sides are involved. I hope this revert does not offend you. However, we may consider this issue further more if you still think other wise. -- Mhhossein talk 16:40, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
The editor Mhossein keep unilaterally making changes. He added "Islamic fundamentalism" as a motive. Ever since rise of ISIS, some people have started tagging Islamist extremism or fundamentalism to attacks without proper sources or sources saying what they claim. The source he used [4] however nowhere itself calls it "Islamic fundamentalism". However it makes no such claim like "Wahhabis attacked Karbala because they were against Shi'ites". At most what it says is "who regarded the Shi'ites reverence of the Imams as polytheism". That's it, nothing else and it doesn't claim they attacked strictly because of it or because of it. Simply because they have negative attitudes doesn't mean we can add whatever we want in the motive. Also the article itself cites that Karbala was also rich, claiming it as another reason [5]. This also gives the weakned defences as a possible reason. In this case it is completely unfair to mention one reason, and neglect the other. The only one near to is only this book [6], which says that Wahhabis didn't limit themselves to academic confrontation but doesn't claim it as an explicit cause for it.
In addition, even if it said they attacked Karbala because of it, at most it will be "Sectarianism". Calling sectarian feud as "fundamentalism" especially by yourself is completely OR. There are many articles relating to sectarian violence but that doesn't make them automatically fundamentalism. Have you seen anyone use "Christian fundamentalism" here or any other religion? No, because that will be unsourced and OR.
He is also priortizing one source over the other through his edits. That is wrong as all views must be presented. This raises serious doubts about his actions. The edits are OR and shouldn't be added. Besides, we shouldn't compare archaic raids to modern attacks that too on our own. The destruction and killing may have something to do with sectarianism but that doesn't make the whole raid simply based on one thing. There is additionally primary source attesting these reasons. There claiming any such thing aboit a vwry old raid is OR and self-interpertation. Serious rule violation is going on here. 117.215.225.19 ( talk) 16:51, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Mhhossein You are making claims based on sources not present in the article. Let me clarify something which you don't see clearly. What you are claiming is "sectarianism" and not "fundamentalism" in itself.:
1) All you presented in the book Longman guide to living religion was a search term "sacking Shi'ite". All it says "Shi'ism was attacked" in reference to Shia majority population of Karbala. Of course there may be an ideological motivation for killimgs of civilians but it cannot be described as the only reason for the attack which has multiple. That at most is "sectarianism", calling it fundamentalism is OR and self-interpertation.
2) Brooking's "THE BLACK PRINCE: NAYEF BIN ABDUL-AZIZ" is talking about Wahhabis purging Ottoman era symbols in Mecca and Media they saw as deviant, the Karbala raid isn't given any reason. Their tribal armies conducted raids into today’s Iraq and pillaged the Shiite holy city of Karbala, then turned west and conquered the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, purging them of any symbols of Ottoman rule and anything that struck the Wahhabi faithful as deviationist.
The Online Opinon source is not even a hostorical and scholarly source that does historical research. Besides actually about the ideological motivation of military campaigns of First Saudi State since 1744 and contacts of Wahhabis with Sauds. Nowhere it explicity refers to it as the only reason.In 1744, Ibn Abd al-Wahhab forged an historic alliance with the Al-Saud clan and sanctified its drive to vanquish its rivals. In return, the Al-Saud supported campaigns by Wahhabi zealots to cleanse the land of "unbelievers". In 1801, Saudi-Wahhabi warriors crossed into present day Iraq and sacked the Shiite holy city of Karbala, killing more than 4,000 people.
Please only stick to scholarly and historical sources with proper historical research.
3) I already detailed the other reasons. The article itself states multiple reasons like its wealth and religion. Also the article itself cites that Karbala was also rich, claiming it as another reason [7]. This also gives the weakned defences as a possible reason. Isn't that forming your own POV and nelecting facts? We shouldn't edit based on our own opinions about anything. Please try to be careful. 59.96.132.131 ( talk) 20:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
I also suggest that instead of making any further reverts and removal we first discuss. I've constantly tried to strike a compromise and adjust with you. Earlier my change of the civilian attack infobox to military conflict was reverted, I let it go. My removal of the motive was reverted multiple times, I then simply added templates raising issues of original research and information not in source. Even that was removed. Let's discuss the thing instead of removals. 117.199.94.94 ( talk) 22:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Muhammad Ibn abd-al-Wahab (1703-1792) sought to return to the "fundamentals" of the tradition-the Quran, the Sunna, and the Hanbali school's legal positionsin reference to the "Islamic Fundamentalism". In reference to the Sack of Karbala it states
In 1802, they also attacked and destroyed the Shi'i Holy City of Karbala., but this sentence doesn't explicitly the motivations and could be where confusion has risen. What is established in the source is rather the groups ideology is Islamic fundamentalism, and it then goes onto to states examples. Emir of Wikipedia ( talk) 08:50, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
"accordingly"which clearly implies that those actions were in accordance with those of followers of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and hence Ibn Taymiyya. In other words, they destroyed many buildings in the peninsula and also attacked Karbala. -- Mhhossein talk 17:54, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Emir of Wikipedia How dare you impose your own version when discussion is ongoing? Please revert your own revert of mine now. Also what proof you are talking about? While you comment on "my English", please read the source carefully. Mhhossein claimed that the sentence about Karbala raid started woth "accordingly", however it's about destruction of tombs, shrines etc. and not Karbala attack. Your interpretation raises serious doubts about your own knowledge and you are misrepresenting the source. Read it again:
"Based in the Arabian Penisula, the Wahhabis, as his followers called, accordingly destroyed many mosques, shrines and tombs on the peninsula that they believed to be dedicated to the memory of Sufi saints."
Please revert you revert now. You didn't even wait for the RfC to be over. Stop edit-warring please yourself while blaming others. 61.1.82.149 ( talk) 20:07, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Mhhossein You have violated the rules again. Instead of discussing, you decided to remove the templates. You also added fanaticsm as a motive, despite tge source only saying based on an orientalist tthat the raid was an example of fanaticsm, not that it was the reason. You cannpt add just what you think is there. The duscussions about thd motive is ongoing, your edits are highly disruptive. Regardless we don't use such reasons. You are deciding what should be added and what is correct by your own. As such I have removed your edits till you discuss as you don't care for cooperation. Regardless of what reason you give, you cannot add or remove what you want even if you think you think you are correct. If you edit war then you will be complained. This is your last warning. Discuss first. 59.89.47.162 ( talk) 23:45, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Please not that
ARBSCW&ISIL/Ds are not in effect, limiting all users to
1RR. Thanks.
El_C 23:58, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Please note that ARBSCW&ISIL/Ds are now in effect, limiting all users to 1RR., and not
Please not that ARBSCW&ISIL/Ds are not in effect, limiting all users to 1RR.? Emir of Wikipedia ( talk) 10:35, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@ Shadowwarrior8: Hi, can you please provide an online url for your sources showing the content added here? The first source does not seem to be reliable and searching for the publisher, i.e. Madinah Publishers and Distributors, does not take you to the publisher website. The second source is by Routledge (not Taylor and Francis as you mentioned). -- Mhhossein talk 13:48, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Do the same for the content added [9], too. -- Mhhossein talk 13:50, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
I couldnt find an online url that freely displays the relevant pages.
Hence I have included the citations. Shadowwarrior8 ( talk) 14:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
From the Wahhabi Movement in India by Qiyamudin Ahmed page 29
QUOTE
"The Sharif of Makkah, the nominal deputy of the Turkish government,who was nearer the scene felt more concerned. An attempt was made to establish some sort of a dialogue with the followers of Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab.. but no real under-standing could be worked out. On the contrary, an embargo was put on the free access of the latter's followers to Makkah during the Hajj. It was later removed and an agreement negotiated under which a kind of demarcation of spheres of influence was made and the safety of the Hajj pilgrims ensured. The arrangement was soon after upset when a pilgrimage party was robbed by 'Iraqi tribes' who had been instructed from 'the headquarters' in a bid to disturb the above-mentioned arrangement. Abdul Aziz bin Saud, in retaliation, attacked the 'Euphrates districts', and in April 1801 the city of Karbala. On the Hijaz side, Muhammad Saud, the son ofAbdul Aziz, carried on similar action, and in April l803 the holy city of Makkah itself was occupied. Further advance was temporarily stopped by the assassination of Abdul Aziz bin Saud in a mosque at Dar'iya by a Persian Shia'h as an act of personal vengeance for the happenings at Karbala."
END QUOTE
Biography and Mission of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab by Jalal Abu al Rab
QUOTE "Attacking Karbala, where extensive infringements on the Islamic creed and law were the rule of the day, was partly in retaliation for armed attacks by Iraqi tribes on 'Hajj caravans... The raid on Karbala was in retaliation for the attack on 'Hajj caravans and resulted in the destruction of polytheistic places of worship. It is doubtful that non-combatants, women or children were intentionally killed during this raid. Abdullah, the son of, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab stated that the stance taken was that women and children were not to be killed during war.." (Page 102-103) END QUOTE Shadowwarrior8 ( talk) 04:26, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Shadowwarrior8: Hi, do the sources you added to the image caption feature image too? -- Mhhossein talk 08:17, 29 September 2022 (UTC)