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United States Department of Veterans Affairs emblems for headstones and markers article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Needless to say, this page desperately needs images. Deco 02:39, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Here's the page from the VA with the images, if someone wants to make the edit. http://www.cem.va.gov/hmemb.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.97.152 ( talk • contribs)
The source page has moved to: http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp Is there a way to update the source links for all the images at once? -- DougOrleans 22:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
At the end of the list of images, there is a note that the Islamic 5-pointed star is not shown due to copyright restrictions. I have several questions:
Is this 5-pointed star shared with the Druze, or is there no symbol for them? Also for the readers of the above comments, please see that Symbols of Islam makes no mention of the 5-pointed star, whereas Arabic star describes a typographical element, and has no religions context specified. -- 208.81.184.4 ( talk) 22:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
What about the refusal to put some religions on dog tags? // Liftarn
I have never seen a dog tag with a religious IMAGE upon it. I have seen WORDING that indicates the bearers religious preference or, as in my case, the words "no pref" indicating I don't care who mumbles over my mangled corpse laying there upon the field of battle. 68.13.191.153 04:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
During my time in the service, you could always get replacement regulation dog tags, both on post or at private businesses (usually right outside post) with any religious preference you wanted. If you wanted "humanist", "atheist", or "no pref" it was fine. To my knowledge, no one was singled out for the religious preference on their dog tags. I, for one, had mine changed from "Baptist" to "Christian" after about a year, since I didn't feel the need to highlight denominational distinctions. And my dad, when he was in, became a Christian mid-way through his service, and had his changed from "no pref" to "Pentecostal". As the previous poster noted, I think it just provides the leadership a heads up for coordinating a funeral service and for family notifications.
Although I'm not american and I don't like them all that much. As any other part of the world, I'm glad there's no Scientology emblem there ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by DynV ( talk • contribs) 02:39, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
IkonicDeath —Preceding comment was added at 06:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
C'mon. If they add Scientology, they'd have to add Haruhiism and Voodoo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.122.191.167 ( talk) 09:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The gallery is actually more appropriate for Wikimedia Commons than Wikipedia... AnonMoos ( talk) 03:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Don't know if it was oversight or vandalism, but the following emblems are missing from the list:
I'm going to add them in under "not pictured" until/unless someone can come in and add the graphics (all available from the referenced governmental source). Esprix ( talk) 21:01, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Please explain #50 is missing—what is/was it? And why is the Muslim star #98? — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 17:46, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
http://www.fastcodesign.com/1672968/how-thors-hammer-made-its-way-onto-soldiers-headstones Wrad ( talk) 05:41, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
I feel like, since it's not part of an established religion, that at least a link to an article explaining the inclusion of the "Sandhill Crane" symbol should be included, but I don't know if that fits the page format... Here's one reference: http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/07/coming_to_va_cemetery_headston.html - Danfish77 ( talk) 14:25, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
It is absolutely correct that the USDVA does not show symbol 98 ("Islamic 5 Pointed Star") on their website, which states "Not shown because of copyrights." What I have been able to ascertain from the history of symbol 98 is that it is, quite simply, a 5-pointed star. I have attempted to obtain a photograph of the symbol from the USDVA to confirm that it is the same 5-pointed star that is used on modern U.S. flags. They won't send me a photo or discuss its design or who owns the copyright. Even U.S. copyright law states that work produced for pay by the U.S. government is public domain, regardless of when the work was produced. (It's a very odd situation, to say the least.) I've combed through literally hundreds of military headstone photos looking for one use of symbol 98 and have not been able to find it in use. I have even spoken with Muslim members of my community and they have confirmed that nothing is sacred or forbidden about showing the star.
Until some visual confirmation is produced, I think it's best to leave the file for symbol 98 intact, but I will be the first to recommend its withdrawal if some visual proof can be provided to do so.
In the interim, I am taking photos of the symbols as I find them in my local U.S. Veterans' cemetery and hope to have the photographs supplement the USDVA symbols as they appear here. Unfortunately, I only have about 50% of the symbols so far. If others would be willing to assist with this, I could go ahead and start uploading the images. Thoughts?
Spacini ( talk) 16:53, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone know where I can find official policy about who gets to choose the emblem to put on a headstone? Or what would you do in case of disputes?
On page 3 of http://www.va.gov/vaforms/va/pdf/VA40-1330.pdf#page=3 after 13A where it asks for the name/address of applicant, on number 16 it mentions 3 options for specifying:
It appears that only the 2nd option requires permission from the decreased themselves to make the choice of what marker to put on.
What would happen if this did not exist and there were 2 next of kin (say a mother and a father) who had different emblems they wanted on it? Like say if one wanted the Wicca symbol and the other wanted the Hammer or Thor? How would the army decide which to put on? There's a maximum of one right? Ranze ( talk) 04:57, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Number 50; numbers 66-97. What/where are they?
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
United States Department of Veterans Affairs emblems for headstones and markers article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about your personal opinions about any belief system. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about your personal opinions about any belief system at the Reference desk. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Needless to say, this page desperately needs images. Deco 02:39, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Here's the page from the VA with the images, if someone wants to make the edit. http://www.cem.va.gov/hmemb.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.97.152 ( talk • contribs)
The source page has moved to: http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp Is there a way to update the source links for all the images at once? -- DougOrleans 22:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
At the end of the list of images, there is a note that the Islamic 5-pointed star is not shown due to copyright restrictions. I have several questions:
Is this 5-pointed star shared with the Druze, or is there no symbol for them? Also for the readers of the above comments, please see that Symbols of Islam makes no mention of the 5-pointed star, whereas Arabic star describes a typographical element, and has no religions context specified. -- 208.81.184.4 ( talk) 22:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
What about the refusal to put some religions on dog tags? // Liftarn
I have never seen a dog tag with a religious IMAGE upon it. I have seen WORDING that indicates the bearers religious preference or, as in my case, the words "no pref" indicating I don't care who mumbles over my mangled corpse laying there upon the field of battle. 68.13.191.153 04:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
During my time in the service, you could always get replacement regulation dog tags, both on post or at private businesses (usually right outside post) with any religious preference you wanted. If you wanted "humanist", "atheist", or "no pref" it was fine. To my knowledge, no one was singled out for the religious preference on their dog tags. I, for one, had mine changed from "Baptist" to "Christian" after about a year, since I didn't feel the need to highlight denominational distinctions. And my dad, when he was in, became a Christian mid-way through his service, and had his changed from "no pref" to "Pentecostal". As the previous poster noted, I think it just provides the leadership a heads up for coordinating a funeral service and for family notifications.
Although I'm not american and I don't like them all that much. As any other part of the world, I'm glad there's no Scientology emblem there ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by DynV ( talk • contribs) 02:39, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
IkonicDeath —Preceding comment was added at 06:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
C'mon. If they add Scientology, they'd have to add Haruhiism and Voodoo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.122.191.167 ( talk) 09:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The gallery is actually more appropriate for Wikimedia Commons than Wikipedia... AnonMoos ( talk) 03:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Don't know if it was oversight or vandalism, but the following emblems are missing from the list:
I'm going to add them in under "not pictured" until/unless someone can come in and add the graphics (all available from the referenced governmental source). Esprix ( talk) 21:01, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Please explain #50 is missing—what is/was it? And why is the Muslim star #98? — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 17:46, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
http://www.fastcodesign.com/1672968/how-thors-hammer-made-its-way-onto-soldiers-headstones Wrad ( talk) 05:41, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
I feel like, since it's not part of an established religion, that at least a link to an article explaining the inclusion of the "Sandhill Crane" symbol should be included, but I don't know if that fits the page format... Here's one reference: http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/07/coming_to_va_cemetery_headston.html - Danfish77 ( talk) 14:25, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
It is absolutely correct that the USDVA does not show symbol 98 ("Islamic 5 Pointed Star") on their website, which states "Not shown because of copyrights." What I have been able to ascertain from the history of symbol 98 is that it is, quite simply, a 5-pointed star. I have attempted to obtain a photograph of the symbol from the USDVA to confirm that it is the same 5-pointed star that is used on modern U.S. flags. They won't send me a photo or discuss its design or who owns the copyright. Even U.S. copyright law states that work produced for pay by the U.S. government is public domain, regardless of when the work was produced. (It's a very odd situation, to say the least.) I've combed through literally hundreds of military headstone photos looking for one use of symbol 98 and have not been able to find it in use. I have even spoken with Muslim members of my community and they have confirmed that nothing is sacred or forbidden about showing the star.
Until some visual confirmation is produced, I think it's best to leave the file for symbol 98 intact, but I will be the first to recommend its withdrawal if some visual proof can be provided to do so.
In the interim, I am taking photos of the symbols as I find them in my local U.S. Veterans' cemetery and hope to have the photographs supplement the USDVA symbols as they appear here. Unfortunately, I only have about 50% of the symbols so far. If others would be willing to assist with this, I could go ahead and start uploading the images. Thoughts?
Spacini ( talk) 16:53, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone know where I can find official policy about who gets to choose the emblem to put on a headstone? Or what would you do in case of disputes?
On page 3 of http://www.va.gov/vaforms/va/pdf/VA40-1330.pdf#page=3 after 13A where it asks for the name/address of applicant, on number 16 it mentions 3 options for specifying:
It appears that only the 2nd option requires permission from the decreased themselves to make the choice of what marker to put on.
What would happen if this did not exist and there were 2 next of kin (say a mother and a father) who had different emblems they wanted on it? Like say if one wanted the Wicca symbol and the other wanted the Hammer or Thor? How would the army decide which to put on? There's a maximum of one right? Ranze ( talk) 04:57, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Number 50; numbers 66-97. What/where are they?