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The area was definitely bigger than 11.1 million km2, if the Abbasid Caliphate, which just by looking at it and comparing it to Umayyad's is smaller, then the Umayyad Caliphate has to be considerably bigger, note the following territories not included in the Abbasid Caliphate but included in Umayyad Caliphate: half of Algeria on top of the amount of Algeria controlled by Abbasid's (1.2 million km2 on top of 11.1) almost the entire Iberian peninsula (540,000 km2) all of Morocco (450,000 km2), additional half of Sindh in Pakistan that wasn't controlled by Abbasids (70,000 km2) and about a fifth of the province of Gujarat in India (40,000 km2), half of Rajasthan (175,000km2). And some other territorial advances. Suffice it to say, the Umayyad Caliphate was well over 2 million additional km2 than 11.1 million km2. AbdusSami98 ( talk) 06:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
Cordoba is indeed the exception to the otherwise general rule of the Abbasids not having the extreme Eastern and Western territories of the Umayyad Caliphate. Also can courses.lumenlearning.com › chapter The Umayyad and Abbasid Empires | Boundless World History
count as a reliable source? AbdusSami98 ( talk) 15:22, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
The preview you can see when you hover over a link is nice with the image and all, but this page has the image just a plain white flag. It makes it seem like the image isn't loading. Maybe it should be replaced with the Umayyad Dynasty's map instead? 208.66.243.66 ( talk) 13:05, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
I am not sure if this is universal, but the flag appears as a green banner with a crescent and star, a flag which as far as I know has no historical usage. Spagheditor ( talk) 10:26, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
It is not true that the Zakat, the Obligatory or Mandatory charity ordained unto Muslims, by both the Qur'an and the Sunna, was used exclusively for the welfare of born Muslims and Muslim converts or the Mu'alafs. Since the rule of the second Califah, Omar ibnul Khattaab, he has established Baitul Maal, the House of Treasury, formed essentially of the Zakat, collected from those Muslims who according to Islamic legislation are considered affording to its paying, but also of the booty and the Jizyah paid by the non Muslims living under the protection of the Islamic state. Omar, gave orders that among the funds of the House of Treasury, are pensions that are to be paid for elderly retired non Muslims who used to pay the Jizyah earlier in their active years of their youth. 102.185.137.255 ( talk) 00:23, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
Hi Theriddler1234, you're making it sound like the dynasty simply held on to power uninterrupted in al-Andalus through the end of the Abbasid Revolution in 750, which is incorrect. The dynasty, which was based in Syria, was removed from power there, and the family nearly wiped out. The surviving Abd ar-Rahman had to make his way in secret across North Africa and had to eventually fight to gain power in al-Andalus, which was effectively independent and ruled by local leaders competing with each other at the time. This is plainly and clearly summarized by the previous wording and can be verified by many reliable and detailed references on the subject. Your proposed edit conveys a different impression and introduces unnecessarily vague or confusing wording (how can "most of the dynasty" be toppled?).
Next time your edit is reverted, please explain yourself on the talk page instead of simply repeating your edit, as recommended by WP:BRD and to avoid edit-warring. Thanks, R Prazeres ( talk) 05:36, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Yusuf began to grow in confidence. The collapse of the Umayyad caliphate of Damascus in 747-50 in the face of 'Abbasid attacks from the east meant that he became an independent ruler. (...) After the 'Abbasid revolution of 750, al-Andalus was no longer part of a wider Muslim empire: it remained to be seen what alternative polity would emerge to fill the gap.
(...) From 747 to 750 there was a vast upheaval, the 'Abbasid revolution, which swept the Umayyads and their Syrian supporters from power. Most of the members of the ruling house were rounded up and executed, but a few, mostly less prominent, individuals were able to lie low and make their escape.
One such was 'Abd al-Rahman b. Mu'awiya, a young grandson of the great Caliph Hisham (724-43). After some hair-breadth escapes, he fled to North Africa, accompanied only by a few mawali, among them Badr, later to be his right-hand man in al-Andalus. His first intention seems to have been to secure Ifriqlya (Tunisia), but the governor, 'Abd al-Rahman al-Fihri, was hostile and he was obliged to seek refuge among his mother's relations, the Nafza Berbers. Thwarted in Africa, he sent Badr to make contact with the Umayyad mawali among the Syrian junds in al-Andalus. There were said to have been 500 of them in the diwan, led by 'Ubayd Allah b. 'Uthman and 'Abd Allah b. Khalid of Damascus and Yusuf b. Bukht of Qinnasrin. At first they tried to attract the support of the Qaysi leader, al-Sumayl, then under siege in Zaragoza, but he refused, fearing that 'Abd al-Rahman would like to make himself effective ruler, so they turned to the opposition Yemenis for support. In the early autumn of 755, after more than five years on the run, 'Abd al-Rahman crossed to Almunecar on the south coast of al-Andalus.
At first he was given refuge in the nearby homes of his mawali, Ibn Khalid and Abu 'Uthman, protected by 300 horsemen. After the attempt to reach a compromise with Yusuf al-Fihri and al-Sumayl, 'Abd al-Rahman began to make contact with Yemeni leaders throughout the south. By the next spring (756) he had recruited an army of about 2,000 Umayyad mawali and Yemeni jundis and marched on Cordoba. Here his supporters fought and defeated the Qaysi army of Yusuf and al-Sumayl and, in May 756, he entered the capital. The proclamation of 'Abd al-Rahman b. Mu'awiya as Amir in the mosque of Cordoba on Friday 14 May 756 was not the end of the Umayyad seizure of power in al-Andalus, but only the end of the beginning.
The governors of the Iberian peninsula, whether they were directly dependent on Damascus or whether they had assumed jurisdiction from the governor of Ifrīḳiya, enjoyed considerable autonomy because the area was so remote. The fall of the Umayyad dynasty in Syria, overthrown by the ʿAbbāsids, only served to reinforce this autonomy.
It took on the appearance of actual independence from the time of the government of Yūsuf b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān al-Fihrī, who combined all the conditions necessary to become the founder of a dynasty in Andalusia. He was a Ḳuras̲h̲ī [q.v.], the great-grand-son of the great ʿUkba b. Nāfiʿ, the son and nephew of the conquerors of al-Andalus, whose uncle, Ḥabīb b. Abī ʿUbayda, was one of those who killed ʿAbd al-ʿAzīz, the son and successor of Musa b. Nuṣayr, and he was elected governor with the almost unanimous support of the Arabs of al-Andalus. But this unanimity rapidly disappeared thanks to the sectarian politics of his lieutenant al-Ṣumayl b. Ḥātim.
Another, even more far-reaching factor was added to this, the arrival on the scene of the young Umayyad, ʿAbd al-Raḥmān b. Muʿāwiya, the grandson of the caliph His̲h̲ām b. ʿAbd al-Malik: he had fled ʿAbbāsid persecution and had been wandering around the north of Africa accompanied by a faithful servant, his emancipated slave, Badr. He had tried as a fugitive to establish himself in Ifrīḳiya but the governor of that province, ʿAbd Allāh b. Ḥabīb al-Fihrī, forced him to continue his flight, fearing correctly that if he allowed him to settle in that province the same fate would overtake him as destiny had reserved for his cousin Yūsuf b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān. Seeing that his hopes of seizing government in Ifrīḳiya were dashed ʿAbd al-Raḥmān commenced his wanderings amongst the various Berber tribes of the Mag̲h̲rib, an experience which convinced him not to try to restore Umayyad government in these regions. The task of creating a “state” from nothing and of unifying the numerous Berber tribes was evidently much more laborious than that of seizing a province which was already supporting a certain political organisation. Given that Ifrīḳiya, because of the rapid and determined action of its governor, was out of the question, there was only one possible region left to satisfy the ambitions of the fugitive, and that was al-Andalus.
(...)
At the end of the summer of 138/755, ʿAbd al-Raḥmān landed at Almuñecar and took refuge without delay in the home of one of his followers, ʿUbayd Allāh b. ʿUt̲h̲mān at Torrox, which was in a very mountainous and inaccessible region. Until then the governor Yūsuf b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān knew nothing about the whole affair and ignored the advice of al-Ṣumayl, who had urged him to act speedily against the newcomer before he managed to gain firmer support. He decided to wait until the end of the winter, for his troops had only recently returned from one campaign and were reluctant to undertake another. This delay proved fatal for the governor, who was obliged to watch the gradually increasing forces of the Umayyad pretender, until the final foreseeable result, the overthrow of Yūsuf and of al-Ṣumayl, who came again to the region of Cordova on 10 Ḏh̲u ’l-Ḥid̲j̲d̲j̲a 138/14 May 756. At first the life and also the liberty of the Fihrite were respected, but when he quickly attempted revolt he was again defeated and then at last killed.
References
The preview you can see when you hover over a link is fine for the image and everything else, but on this page the image only contains a plain white flag. The image doesn't seem to load. Moreover, this flag is not legitimate, it is just a simple guesswork. Therefore, like most pre-modern countries, it is better not to use any flags. It would be more Encyclopedic and better to replace the page image with the Country Map. Frq ltc ( talk) 17:09, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Moving my reply to the bottom so it won't get lost, but following up on TompaDompa, Iskandar323, and Frq ltc's comments above about the flag: do we have consensus, then, to remove the white image from the infobox? Do we want to mention the flag in a separate section below, as suggested by Iskandar323 and I? Or are there other opinions? R Prazeres ( talk) 17:18, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Umayyad Caliphate article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on August 15, 2021. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
The area was definitely bigger than 11.1 million km2, if the Abbasid Caliphate, which just by looking at it and comparing it to Umayyad's is smaller, then the Umayyad Caliphate has to be considerably bigger, note the following territories not included in the Abbasid Caliphate but included in Umayyad Caliphate: half of Algeria on top of the amount of Algeria controlled by Abbasid's (1.2 million km2 on top of 11.1) almost the entire Iberian peninsula (540,000 km2) all of Morocco (450,000 km2), additional half of Sindh in Pakistan that wasn't controlled by Abbasids (70,000 km2) and about a fifth of the province of Gujarat in India (40,000 km2), half of Rajasthan (175,000km2). And some other territorial advances. Suffice it to say, the Umayyad Caliphate was well over 2 million additional km2 than 11.1 million km2. AbdusSami98 ( talk) 06:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
Cordoba is indeed the exception to the otherwise general rule of the Abbasids not having the extreme Eastern and Western territories of the Umayyad Caliphate. Also can courses.lumenlearning.com › chapter The Umayyad and Abbasid Empires | Boundless World History
count as a reliable source? AbdusSami98 ( talk) 15:22, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
The preview you can see when you hover over a link is nice with the image and all, but this page has the image just a plain white flag. It makes it seem like the image isn't loading. Maybe it should be replaced with the Umayyad Dynasty's map instead? 208.66.243.66 ( talk) 13:05, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
I am not sure if this is universal, but the flag appears as a green banner with a crescent and star, a flag which as far as I know has no historical usage. Spagheditor ( talk) 10:26, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
It is not true that the Zakat, the Obligatory or Mandatory charity ordained unto Muslims, by both the Qur'an and the Sunna, was used exclusively for the welfare of born Muslims and Muslim converts or the Mu'alafs. Since the rule of the second Califah, Omar ibnul Khattaab, he has established Baitul Maal, the House of Treasury, formed essentially of the Zakat, collected from those Muslims who according to Islamic legislation are considered affording to its paying, but also of the booty and the Jizyah paid by the non Muslims living under the protection of the Islamic state. Omar, gave orders that among the funds of the House of Treasury, are pensions that are to be paid for elderly retired non Muslims who used to pay the Jizyah earlier in their active years of their youth. 102.185.137.255 ( talk) 00:23, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
Hi Theriddler1234, you're making it sound like the dynasty simply held on to power uninterrupted in al-Andalus through the end of the Abbasid Revolution in 750, which is incorrect. The dynasty, which was based in Syria, was removed from power there, and the family nearly wiped out. The surviving Abd ar-Rahman had to make his way in secret across North Africa and had to eventually fight to gain power in al-Andalus, which was effectively independent and ruled by local leaders competing with each other at the time. This is plainly and clearly summarized by the previous wording and can be verified by many reliable and detailed references on the subject. Your proposed edit conveys a different impression and introduces unnecessarily vague or confusing wording (how can "most of the dynasty" be toppled?).
Next time your edit is reverted, please explain yourself on the talk page instead of simply repeating your edit, as recommended by WP:BRD and to avoid edit-warring. Thanks, R Prazeres ( talk) 05:36, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Yusuf began to grow in confidence. The collapse of the Umayyad caliphate of Damascus in 747-50 in the face of 'Abbasid attacks from the east meant that he became an independent ruler. (...) After the 'Abbasid revolution of 750, al-Andalus was no longer part of a wider Muslim empire: it remained to be seen what alternative polity would emerge to fill the gap.
(...) From 747 to 750 there was a vast upheaval, the 'Abbasid revolution, which swept the Umayyads and their Syrian supporters from power. Most of the members of the ruling house were rounded up and executed, but a few, mostly less prominent, individuals were able to lie low and make their escape.
One such was 'Abd al-Rahman b. Mu'awiya, a young grandson of the great Caliph Hisham (724-43). After some hair-breadth escapes, he fled to North Africa, accompanied only by a few mawali, among them Badr, later to be his right-hand man in al-Andalus. His first intention seems to have been to secure Ifriqlya (Tunisia), but the governor, 'Abd al-Rahman al-Fihri, was hostile and he was obliged to seek refuge among his mother's relations, the Nafza Berbers. Thwarted in Africa, he sent Badr to make contact with the Umayyad mawali among the Syrian junds in al-Andalus. There were said to have been 500 of them in the diwan, led by 'Ubayd Allah b. 'Uthman and 'Abd Allah b. Khalid of Damascus and Yusuf b. Bukht of Qinnasrin. At first they tried to attract the support of the Qaysi leader, al-Sumayl, then under siege in Zaragoza, but he refused, fearing that 'Abd al-Rahman would like to make himself effective ruler, so they turned to the opposition Yemenis for support. In the early autumn of 755, after more than five years on the run, 'Abd al-Rahman crossed to Almunecar on the south coast of al-Andalus.
At first he was given refuge in the nearby homes of his mawali, Ibn Khalid and Abu 'Uthman, protected by 300 horsemen. After the attempt to reach a compromise with Yusuf al-Fihri and al-Sumayl, 'Abd al-Rahman began to make contact with Yemeni leaders throughout the south. By the next spring (756) he had recruited an army of about 2,000 Umayyad mawali and Yemeni jundis and marched on Cordoba. Here his supporters fought and defeated the Qaysi army of Yusuf and al-Sumayl and, in May 756, he entered the capital. The proclamation of 'Abd al-Rahman b. Mu'awiya as Amir in the mosque of Cordoba on Friday 14 May 756 was not the end of the Umayyad seizure of power in al-Andalus, but only the end of the beginning.
The governors of the Iberian peninsula, whether they were directly dependent on Damascus or whether they had assumed jurisdiction from the governor of Ifrīḳiya, enjoyed considerable autonomy because the area was so remote. The fall of the Umayyad dynasty in Syria, overthrown by the ʿAbbāsids, only served to reinforce this autonomy.
It took on the appearance of actual independence from the time of the government of Yūsuf b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān al-Fihrī, who combined all the conditions necessary to become the founder of a dynasty in Andalusia. He was a Ḳuras̲h̲ī [q.v.], the great-grand-son of the great ʿUkba b. Nāfiʿ, the son and nephew of the conquerors of al-Andalus, whose uncle, Ḥabīb b. Abī ʿUbayda, was one of those who killed ʿAbd al-ʿAzīz, the son and successor of Musa b. Nuṣayr, and he was elected governor with the almost unanimous support of the Arabs of al-Andalus. But this unanimity rapidly disappeared thanks to the sectarian politics of his lieutenant al-Ṣumayl b. Ḥātim.
Another, even more far-reaching factor was added to this, the arrival on the scene of the young Umayyad, ʿAbd al-Raḥmān b. Muʿāwiya, the grandson of the caliph His̲h̲ām b. ʿAbd al-Malik: he had fled ʿAbbāsid persecution and had been wandering around the north of Africa accompanied by a faithful servant, his emancipated slave, Badr. He had tried as a fugitive to establish himself in Ifrīḳiya but the governor of that province, ʿAbd Allāh b. Ḥabīb al-Fihrī, forced him to continue his flight, fearing correctly that if he allowed him to settle in that province the same fate would overtake him as destiny had reserved for his cousin Yūsuf b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān. Seeing that his hopes of seizing government in Ifrīḳiya were dashed ʿAbd al-Raḥmān commenced his wanderings amongst the various Berber tribes of the Mag̲h̲rib, an experience which convinced him not to try to restore Umayyad government in these regions. The task of creating a “state” from nothing and of unifying the numerous Berber tribes was evidently much more laborious than that of seizing a province which was already supporting a certain political organisation. Given that Ifrīḳiya, because of the rapid and determined action of its governor, was out of the question, there was only one possible region left to satisfy the ambitions of the fugitive, and that was al-Andalus.
(...)
At the end of the summer of 138/755, ʿAbd al-Raḥmān landed at Almuñecar and took refuge without delay in the home of one of his followers, ʿUbayd Allāh b. ʿUt̲h̲mān at Torrox, which was in a very mountainous and inaccessible region. Until then the governor Yūsuf b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān knew nothing about the whole affair and ignored the advice of al-Ṣumayl, who had urged him to act speedily against the newcomer before he managed to gain firmer support. He decided to wait until the end of the winter, for his troops had only recently returned from one campaign and were reluctant to undertake another. This delay proved fatal for the governor, who was obliged to watch the gradually increasing forces of the Umayyad pretender, until the final foreseeable result, the overthrow of Yūsuf and of al-Ṣumayl, who came again to the region of Cordova on 10 Ḏh̲u ’l-Ḥid̲j̲d̲j̲a 138/14 May 756. At first the life and also the liberty of the Fihrite were respected, but when he quickly attempted revolt he was again defeated and then at last killed.
References
The preview you can see when you hover over a link is fine for the image and everything else, but on this page the image only contains a plain white flag. The image doesn't seem to load. Moreover, this flag is not legitimate, it is just a simple guesswork. Therefore, like most pre-modern countries, it is better not to use any flags. It would be more Encyclopedic and better to replace the page image with the Country Map. Frq ltc ( talk) 17:09, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Moving my reply to the bottom so it won't get lost, but following up on TompaDompa, Iskandar323, and Frq ltc's comments above about the flag: do we have consensus, then, to remove the white image from the infobox? Do we want to mention the flag in a separate section below, as suggested by Iskandar323 and I? Or are there other opinions? R Prazeres ( talk) 17:18, 13 May 2023 (UTC)