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Without diverse visual examples, this page cannot describe the process of Totem Pole creation. It is not crystal clear what they are for-- nor clear who and what they represent in each picture. That is not worthy of an encyclopedia. Without pictures that really represent the work of each tribe mentioned, we are not upholding a curator's standard of respectability. The fact that this political art (political between tribes, that is-- it serves a bordering and territorial function) is outdoors, does not preclude the idea that is part of a living museum. Archaelogist would at this embarrassment, and natives don't like it either. The relationship between the potlach and the poles is unclearly stated. I couldn't reference what resources I would need to build a properly constructed Totem Pole from this article. Where are the links to tribal councils who would approve of the building process? Where are the links to university libraries, and anthropological authorities on tribal practice?
Someone added textbook passages, and this is a no-no on Wikipedia. Plagiarism must be removed wherever it is discovered. It's not the copyright, stupid. It's the fact this stuff is just plain wrong.
Just did a big rewrite. This article needs to be read over by others. Please make corrections and leave comments. Post questions below for anything that seems vague or unclear. I will also add some references at some point, although much of what's written here is off the top of my head. I'm no expert but I've lived with totem poles and have been taught about them all my life so I know more than enough to give plenty of accurate, verifiable details.
Something that needs some serious consideration is the image problem. By this I mean that images of totem poles and other NW Coast art, though allowed by Canadian and U.S. law, are not allowed without permission under the laws and customs of most NW Coast cultures. So most of the images in Wikipedia should be cleared by cultural representatives to be totally proper. There may be even be some legal precedent, at least in the U.S., for implied copyright of native designs, but IANAL. I can probably get permission for most of the Tlingit and Haida works that belong to Alaskan groups from Sealaska/CCTHITA or clan representatives, but I can't do so for B.C. or Washington art. And I'm pretty sure that permission to display the designs won't be released under any GFDL-type license; only for Wikipedia use.
Once permission is obtained I'd love to add a few examples of Northern and Southern styles, examples of various famous poles, and pictures drawn by some of the early European explorers. This article has lots of potential for FA status. — Jéioosh 04:28, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I understand the Haisla repatriation is a world's first and for that reason I added a graph under "Property." But I'm less sure about the second sentence about the documentary: it seems to me that it may be out of place and better suited as an External Link, below, if at all. Comments please Shawn in Montreal 01:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I've deleted the reference to Ed Galloway's Totem Pole Park because the "totem pole" in question has nothing to do with this article. My reasoning is from the thesis of the article: this pole is not carved from wood, it was not made by a Native American, and was not made according to the cross-cultural rules of Pacific Northwest Coast native art. It has nothing to do with totem poles at all other than being a massive vertical outdoor sculpture, and I don't feel that its peculiar height lends any justification to its listing here. — Jéioosh 03:32, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'm having a hard time relating the ideas in these three articles. They seem to be describing three completely different concepts. If they're really unrelated, that should be explained. If they are in fact related, then there's something wrong with the articles. The totemism article says the word comes from an Ojibwe word, but the totem article seems to imply that it's from Chinese. Or is the Chinese word totim actually derived from the English word totem? I think this should be clarified. -- Bcrowell 15:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For starters, totem poles are unrelated to totemism. Totem poles actually have nothing to do with totemism, since they are not representations of totems per se, but are instead representations of crest symbols which belong to particular cultural groups within a society. They are comparable to heraldry used in European monarchies, and in fact have many things in common with heraldry, in that they represent historical or legendary associations of particular animals or figures with certain cultural lineages (not families in the case of totem poles, but social clans). The name "totem pole" is a historical accident of misunderstanding their purpose. This should be clarified in the article at some point, but I haven't the time to do it at the moment. — Jéioosh 21:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I removed several references to pictography in the article. Totem poles are in no way pictographic, they cannot be "read" and do not encode language. Instead they are "iconic", they stand for other sorts of information, extralinguistic knowledge. Pictography is a simple form of writing to represent language, iconography is instead a form of representational art which has in general no linguistic content. — Jéioosh 19:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I added some new images, I hope it does not make it too cluttered. I think this subject desrves alot of illustration. I photographed these poles in Victoria, BC HighInBC 17:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
The locations (and origins) should do the trick; although I don't own a copy of Barbeau anymore; but most poles on public display, that is to say, ones before the current-era revival of native carving, should be listed; current-era ones will probably have contemporary write-ups associated with their erection, also. Slowly, slowly, we might be able to track them down and add their stories. Skookum1 23:24, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Just got back from a trip to Ketchikan, and can provide a photo or two from Saxman Totem Park, e.g. Image:Top_of_Seward_Pole.jpg. That would seem to be consistent with the intent above.
I'm surprised about the inconsistency of the stories. For example, the main article claims that "[o]ne famous shame pole is the Lincoln Pole in Saxman, Alaska; it was apparently created to shame the U.S. government into repaying the Tlingit people for the value of slaves which were freed after the Emancipation Proclamation. Other explanations for it have arisen as the original reason was forgotten or suppressed, however this meaning is still clearly recounted by a number of Tlingit elders today." Huh? I suppose this is possible, but it seems awfully unlikely -- the reach of the Emancipation Proclamation on the Tlingit would be slight.
Our guide impressed me -- although silly me, didn't write down his name. Local boy, entrepreneur (had started a line of cards, "Alaskan Go Fish", so that kids could play 'go fish' but the cards would show off local wildlife), and I suspect will be a mayor or the like at some point. He provided a story similar to that in http://www.denaliincorporated.com/Pages/tart.htm , although with a bit more detail. His story was that the Tlingit and the saw a warship cruising down Tongass narrows, and went out to talk to the captain because they had lost a bunch of their kids to the Haida in a clan war, and since this was post-civil war, the warship had to do something about it. So the captain of the warship formed a shore party, sent the shore party toward the Haida camp on foot, and then took the ship into the camp. With the ship he blew apart every structure, and with the shore party he killed most everything that moved -- then took the chieftains of both the Tlingit and the Haida onboard ship. He explained that every time he came by, he would have to deal with the situation, and the only tool he had was to destroy everything in site, so the chieftains had better resolve the issue. Apparently, the peace remained to this day. The pole was created to celebrate the event, but you can't put a warship on a totem pole. However, the ship had a large portrait of Lincoln, but only to his knees, which is why the icon at the top of the totem is shortened.
He also had a story about a shame pole that really does make sense, the Seward pole. The story there can be more readily found, googling for Seward Pole. (Sarah Vowell's _Assassination_Vacation_ actually has several stories about the Lincoln pole as well as the Seward Pole.) Frankly, it would be much better to go with that one, to describe shame poles.
Why? Hyacinth 00:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
what are the totyem poles for? & what do the symbols mean? -- 172.200.147.203 ( talk)
I have just been looking at this page with one of my children, and we have found it a very good article. However the first sentence makes reference to totem poles starting in Africa, but makes no further reference to Africa, and moves, I think, to North America without a transition.
I do not have the knowledge to offer what should be written, but I think it might be helpful if this first part were edited to make it clearer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amandawoodfield ( talk • contribs) 09:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
An art history professor I took a class from was adamant that there was a great deal of controversy over the name "totem pole", and that the politically correct name is "crest pole". Does anyone have other sources on this? I'm not advocating a name change (totem pole is by far the more commonly used term), just perhaps a section on the name controversy. 98.203.237.75 ( talk) 04:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I work at the Royal Ontario Museum and we have been asked by our curators never to call them totem poles. Crest poles - yes, spirit poles - maybe. I was surprised this wasn't even mentioned on the page. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. Americans still use 'Indians' and 'Eskimos', both of which are really outdated in Canada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donalldubh ( talk • contribs) 02:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Totem gives the idea to some people who are familiar with the term "Totem" a wrong perception, or view of our culture. This wrongful guess, comes from the Christians who traveled the world, and when they came across South America, by the Inca's, Aztec's, and Myan's, where these nations used the term "totem pole" in it's proper use, worship as deities'. First Nations, from the West Coast of BC, we do not have a religion, and we do not worship our poles! They have a few names, depending on the use of them vary; House Poles (placed in front of house, and gives you the genealogy of the families living within this house), Honor Poles (worth a recognition for an individual(s)), Mortuary Poles (death of a chief or high ranking elder), Warning Poles (animals, a change of season, or a hostile environment), or the most common, the Story Pole (Stories passed on from generation to generation through a story pole). Jungle_Vulture from BC
I assume that most totem poles in the Pacific Northwest are made of the douglas fir tree. But then again, I suppose any kind of tree will do. In any case, the main article indicates that many totem poles are left to rot with time (as rotting is a natural process), or left to the elements when a tribe abandons an area, and so are not restored or maintained.
Also, are there any instances of two or three totem poles being bound together (as with rope), or cut and fit together, so that a larger face is more properly available for carving on? 198.177.27.25 ( talk) 07:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
This removed link I thought worth re-posting here for further consideration; it contains a number of apocrypha and speculation and should not be considered authoritative in anyway a a reliable source; it does contain interesting bibliographical items, but is written not for informational purposes but to define curriculum content. Skookum1 ( talk) 15:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Would an Asherah pole be considered a type of totem pole? Perhaps a See also section could be added with a link to that? Or maybe even under the "Totem poles outside North America" section? OlEnglish ( talk) 00:15, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Is there a type of totem pole called a " Scrotum pole"? That phrase redirects here, but there is no mention of scrotum poles in this article.
This line: "Christian missionaries reviled the totem pole as an object of heathen worship and urged converts to cease production and destroy existing poles," is factually incorrect to imply that all three of the main Christian branches did this. It was WASP Protestant Christians who tried to remake the Native American in their own (Western European) image. But before this the Russian Orthodox Christians in Alaska, as is the way of the Orthodox, allowed the natives to keep their traditions, simply replacing pagan symbols of the poles with Christian ones. Hence, Christian Totem Poles. I think this line should be changed to reflect this difference in the two Missionary styles. It would further deepen the encyclopedia entry to make an addition of photograph of an Orthodox Christian Totem Pole. -- Nikoz78 ( talk) 06:59, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Orthodox do not try to remake native peoples in their own image. The Orthodox Eskimos to this day have their Christian Poles. They sought to convert them to Christianity, not try to make them "European." That is a straight fact. Easter was a German goddess and celebration. They allowed this tradition to remain simply replacing the goddess Easter with Christ. This year in Ethiopia I witnessed African tribal dances in praise of Christ; these were once pagan but the Greek Orthodox again, as is the way of the Orthodox, allowed them to retain their folk heritage. Examples of this go all the way back to the Greeks, who were the first non-Jewish peoples Christianized, who retained their Hellenic traditions to a very large degree. In fact, Christianity as we know it grew up in a Greek world. Also, the Orthodox are not a "denomination." Like the Catholics they are pre-denominational. Denominations did not exist until renegade-Catholics formed the Protestant Church (which is now fractured into 33,000 different denominations). -- Nikoz78 ( talk) 15:36, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Two of the images are turned sideways. I don't know how to modify the image pages and don't have the wherewithal to look it up. Just thought I'd point it out.
Thanks! -- Geekdiva ( talk) 07:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
The totem named the Three Frog shame totem is misnamed. I don't know what it is, but this is a link to the actual three frog totem-- http://www.sederquist.com/Alaska2007/Images/wrangell7.jpg
I don't know how to change it in the article or I would do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.28.187 ( talk) 15:08, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
A link with this article's title was on Alert Bay, British Columbia and I know there's several other places that make this claim about their poles. Strikes me there should be a List of tallest totem poles or some such list where they can be listed and compared; each in succession no doubt was the tallest of its time, or in its original location sometimes, but clearly "there can be only one". Skookum1 ( talk) 08:03, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
.
Years ago, I saw a totem pole in Toronto (College Park lower shopping level near Bay street) made by a west coast artist that had in its description reference to the wisdom hat. The top of the totem had the figure of an elder (deceased IIRC) and this figure was wearing a hat made of several rings stacked above each other. The description indicated that the number of rings indicated the wisdom of the elder. You can see such a hat in the photo:
I've seen such hats on other poles, including one in the British Museum in 2009.
What I have never seen is a description of wisdom hats in place other than the Toronto art work. Does anyone have a source for such a thing - I think it would be good to add to the article if it is legit. 99.245.248.91 ( talk) 01:15, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
This is arguably one of the most recognizable of all totem poles, being featured on a well-known $1 Canadian Stamp, as well as being prominently displayed in the British Museum. Does anyone oppose the British Museum being referenced in the "Totem Poles of Note" section in the notable collections list? I believe the examples in the British Museum deserve reference in this article. IcehouseCover ( talk) 23:11, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
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The article begins by stating that "[t]otem poles are monumental sculptures carved on poles, posts, or pillars with symbols or figures made from large trees, mostly western red cedar, by indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest coast of North America (northwestern United States and Canada's western province, British Columbia)". I don't understand how a symbol or figure can possibly be "made from large trees". Imerologul Valah ( talk) 08:57, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Now we have a new article Ceremonial pole, Please see and include suitable improvements , if any, in article Ceremonial pole].
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It appears as though there's none on Wikipedia. Is there a reason these have been omitted? Are they under a different name for some reason? This cultures are where totem poles originated and spread so it's surprising the oldest totem poles aren't listed here! 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 08:02, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
I'd be very interested to learn about nordic/germanic totem YogiHalim ( talk) 10:20, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
While it may not exactly towering pole, Polynesian or Formosan culture often referred as "tiki" also feature animal / human depiction stacked on top of one another. I was here looking for some collection of information regarding this similarity which is quite obvious to me, don't you think? YogiHalim ( talk) 10:19, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
Also several Tungisic tribes (eg. the Nanai, the Amur) in Eastern Siberia carve idol poles quite similar to totem poles of the PacNW native tribes. reference: Totem Poles Before 1700 AD Around the Pacific Rim by Patty Inglish, seems like i can't share a hubpages link 119.236.47.178 ( talk) 21:57, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
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Without diverse visual examples, this page cannot describe the process of Totem Pole creation. It is not crystal clear what they are for-- nor clear who and what they represent in each picture. That is not worthy of an encyclopedia. Without pictures that really represent the work of each tribe mentioned, we are not upholding a curator's standard of respectability. The fact that this political art (political between tribes, that is-- it serves a bordering and territorial function) is outdoors, does not preclude the idea that is part of a living museum. Archaelogist would at this embarrassment, and natives don't like it either. The relationship between the potlach and the poles is unclearly stated. I couldn't reference what resources I would need to build a properly constructed Totem Pole from this article. Where are the links to tribal councils who would approve of the building process? Where are the links to university libraries, and anthropological authorities on tribal practice?
Someone added textbook passages, and this is a no-no on Wikipedia. Plagiarism must be removed wherever it is discovered. It's not the copyright, stupid. It's the fact this stuff is just plain wrong.
Just did a big rewrite. This article needs to be read over by others. Please make corrections and leave comments. Post questions below for anything that seems vague or unclear. I will also add some references at some point, although much of what's written here is off the top of my head. I'm no expert but I've lived with totem poles and have been taught about them all my life so I know more than enough to give plenty of accurate, verifiable details.
Something that needs some serious consideration is the image problem. By this I mean that images of totem poles and other NW Coast art, though allowed by Canadian and U.S. law, are not allowed without permission under the laws and customs of most NW Coast cultures. So most of the images in Wikipedia should be cleared by cultural representatives to be totally proper. There may be even be some legal precedent, at least in the U.S., for implied copyright of native designs, but IANAL. I can probably get permission for most of the Tlingit and Haida works that belong to Alaskan groups from Sealaska/CCTHITA or clan representatives, but I can't do so for B.C. or Washington art. And I'm pretty sure that permission to display the designs won't be released under any GFDL-type license; only for Wikipedia use.
Once permission is obtained I'd love to add a few examples of Northern and Southern styles, examples of various famous poles, and pictures drawn by some of the early European explorers. This article has lots of potential for FA status. — Jéioosh 04:28, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I understand the Haisla repatriation is a world's first and for that reason I added a graph under "Property." But I'm less sure about the second sentence about the documentary: it seems to me that it may be out of place and better suited as an External Link, below, if at all. Comments please Shawn in Montreal 01:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I've deleted the reference to Ed Galloway's Totem Pole Park because the "totem pole" in question has nothing to do with this article. My reasoning is from the thesis of the article: this pole is not carved from wood, it was not made by a Native American, and was not made according to the cross-cultural rules of Pacific Northwest Coast native art. It has nothing to do with totem poles at all other than being a massive vertical outdoor sculpture, and I don't feel that its peculiar height lends any justification to its listing here. — Jéioosh 03:32, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'm having a hard time relating the ideas in these three articles. They seem to be describing three completely different concepts. If they're really unrelated, that should be explained. If they are in fact related, then there's something wrong with the articles. The totemism article says the word comes from an Ojibwe word, but the totem article seems to imply that it's from Chinese. Or is the Chinese word totim actually derived from the English word totem? I think this should be clarified. -- Bcrowell 15:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For starters, totem poles are unrelated to totemism. Totem poles actually have nothing to do with totemism, since they are not representations of totems per se, but are instead representations of crest symbols which belong to particular cultural groups within a society. They are comparable to heraldry used in European monarchies, and in fact have many things in common with heraldry, in that they represent historical or legendary associations of particular animals or figures with certain cultural lineages (not families in the case of totem poles, but social clans). The name "totem pole" is a historical accident of misunderstanding their purpose. This should be clarified in the article at some point, but I haven't the time to do it at the moment. — Jéioosh 21:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I removed several references to pictography in the article. Totem poles are in no way pictographic, they cannot be "read" and do not encode language. Instead they are "iconic", they stand for other sorts of information, extralinguistic knowledge. Pictography is a simple form of writing to represent language, iconography is instead a form of representational art which has in general no linguistic content. — Jéioosh 19:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I added some new images, I hope it does not make it too cluttered. I think this subject desrves alot of illustration. I photographed these poles in Victoria, BC HighInBC 17:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
The locations (and origins) should do the trick; although I don't own a copy of Barbeau anymore; but most poles on public display, that is to say, ones before the current-era revival of native carving, should be listed; current-era ones will probably have contemporary write-ups associated with their erection, also. Slowly, slowly, we might be able to track them down and add their stories. Skookum1 23:24, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Just got back from a trip to Ketchikan, and can provide a photo or two from Saxman Totem Park, e.g. Image:Top_of_Seward_Pole.jpg. That would seem to be consistent with the intent above.
I'm surprised about the inconsistency of the stories. For example, the main article claims that "[o]ne famous shame pole is the Lincoln Pole in Saxman, Alaska; it was apparently created to shame the U.S. government into repaying the Tlingit people for the value of slaves which were freed after the Emancipation Proclamation. Other explanations for it have arisen as the original reason was forgotten or suppressed, however this meaning is still clearly recounted by a number of Tlingit elders today." Huh? I suppose this is possible, but it seems awfully unlikely -- the reach of the Emancipation Proclamation on the Tlingit would be slight.
Our guide impressed me -- although silly me, didn't write down his name. Local boy, entrepreneur (had started a line of cards, "Alaskan Go Fish", so that kids could play 'go fish' but the cards would show off local wildlife), and I suspect will be a mayor or the like at some point. He provided a story similar to that in http://www.denaliincorporated.com/Pages/tart.htm , although with a bit more detail. His story was that the Tlingit and the saw a warship cruising down Tongass narrows, and went out to talk to the captain because they had lost a bunch of their kids to the Haida in a clan war, and since this was post-civil war, the warship had to do something about it. So the captain of the warship formed a shore party, sent the shore party toward the Haida camp on foot, and then took the ship into the camp. With the ship he blew apart every structure, and with the shore party he killed most everything that moved -- then took the chieftains of both the Tlingit and the Haida onboard ship. He explained that every time he came by, he would have to deal with the situation, and the only tool he had was to destroy everything in site, so the chieftains had better resolve the issue. Apparently, the peace remained to this day. The pole was created to celebrate the event, but you can't put a warship on a totem pole. However, the ship had a large portrait of Lincoln, but only to his knees, which is why the icon at the top of the totem is shortened.
He also had a story about a shame pole that really does make sense, the Seward pole. The story there can be more readily found, googling for Seward Pole. (Sarah Vowell's _Assassination_Vacation_ actually has several stories about the Lincoln pole as well as the Seward Pole.) Frankly, it would be much better to go with that one, to describe shame poles.
Why? Hyacinth 00:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
what are the totyem poles for? & what do the symbols mean? -- 172.200.147.203 ( talk)
I have just been looking at this page with one of my children, and we have found it a very good article. However the first sentence makes reference to totem poles starting in Africa, but makes no further reference to Africa, and moves, I think, to North America without a transition.
I do not have the knowledge to offer what should be written, but I think it might be helpful if this first part were edited to make it clearer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amandawoodfield ( talk • contribs) 09:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
An art history professor I took a class from was adamant that there was a great deal of controversy over the name "totem pole", and that the politically correct name is "crest pole". Does anyone have other sources on this? I'm not advocating a name change (totem pole is by far the more commonly used term), just perhaps a section on the name controversy. 98.203.237.75 ( talk) 04:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I work at the Royal Ontario Museum and we have been asked by our curators never to call them totem poles. Crest poles - yes, spirit poles - maybe. I was surprised this wasn't even mentioned on the page. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. Americans still use 'Indians' and 'Eskimos', both of which are really outdated in Canada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donalldubh ( talk • contribs) 02:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Totem gives the idea to some people who are familiar with the term "Totem" a wrong perception, or view of our culture. This wrongful guess, comes from the Christians who traveled the world, and when they came across South America, by the Inca's, Aztec's, and Myan's, where these nations used the term "totem pole" in it's proper use, worship as deities'. First Nations, from the West Coast of BC, we do not have a religion, and we do not worship our poles! They have a few names, depending on the use of them vary; House Poles (placed in front of house, and gives you the genealogy of the families living within this house), Honor Poles (worth a recognition for an individual(s)), Mortuary Poles (death of a chief or high ranking elder), Warning Poles (animals, a change of season, or a hostile environment), or the most common, the Story Pole (Stories passed on from generation to generation through a story pole). Jungle_Vulture from BC
I assume that most totem poles in the Pacific Northwest are made of the douglas fir tree. But then again, I suppose any kind of tree will do. In any case, the main article indicates that many totem poles are left to rot with time (as rotting is a natural process), or left to the elements when a tribe abandons an area, and so are not restored or maintained.
Also, are there any instances of two or three totem poles being bound together (as with rope), or cut and fit together, so that a larger face is more properly available for carving on? 198.177.27.25 ( talk) 07:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
This removed link I thought worth re-posting here for further consideration; it contains a number of apocrypha and speculation and should not be considered authoritative in anyway a a reliable source; it does contain interesting bibliographical items, but is written not for informational purposes but to define curriculum content. Skookum1 ( talk) 15:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Would an Asherah pole be considered a type of totem pole? Perhaps a See also section could be added with a link to that? Or maybe even under the "Totem poles outside North America" section? OlEnglish ( talk) 00:15, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Is there a type of totem pole called a " Scrotum pole"? That phrase redirects here, but there is no mention of scrotum poles in this article.
This line: "Christian missionaries reviled the totem pole as an object of heathen worship and urged converts to cease production and destroy existing poles," is factually incorrect to imply that all three of the main Christian branches did this. It was WASP Protestant Christians who tried to remake the Native American in their own (Western European) image. But before this the Russian Orthodox Christians in Alaska, as is the way of the Orthodox, allowed the natives to keep their traditions, simply replacing pagan symbols of the poles with Christian ones. Hence, Christian Totem Poles. I think this line should be changed to reflect this difference in the two Missionary styles. It would further deepen the encyclopedia entry to make an addition of photograph of an Orthodox Christian Totem Pole. -- Nikoz78 ( talk) 06:59, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Orthodox do not try to remake native peoples in their own image. The Orthodox Eskimos to this day have their Christian Poles. They sought to convert them to Christianity, not try to make them "European." That is a straight fact. Easter was a German goddess and celebration. They allowed this tradition to remain simply replacing the goddess Easter with Christ. This year in Ethiopia I witnessed African tribal dances in praise of Christ; these were once pagan but the Greek Orthodox again, as is the way of the Orthodox, allowed them to retain their folk heritage. Examples of this go all the way back to the Greeks, who were the first non-Jewish peoples Christianized, who retained their Hellenic traditions to a very large degree. In fact, Christianity as we know it grew up in a Greek world. Also, the Orthodox are not a "denomination." Like the Catholics they are pre-denominational. Denominations did not exist until renegade-Catholics formed the Protestant Church (which is now fractured into 33,000 different denominations). -- Nikoz78 ( talk) 15:36, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Two of the images are turned sideways. I don't know how to modify the image pages and don't have the wherewithal to look it up. Just thought I'd point it out.
Thanks! -- Geekdiva ( talk) 07:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
The totem named the Three Frog shame totem is misnamed. I don't know what it is, but this is a link to the actual three frog totem-- http://www.sederquist.com/Alaska2007/Images/wrangell7.jpg
I don't know how to change it in the article or I would do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.28.187 ( talk) 15:08, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
A link with this article's title was on Alert Bay, British Columbia and I know there's several other places that make this claim about their poles. Strikes me there should be a List of tallest totem poles or some such list where they can be listed and compared; each in succession no doubt was the tallest of its time, or in its original location sometimes, but clearly "there can be only one". Skookum1 ( talk) 08:03, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
.
Years ago, I saw a totem pole in Toronto (College Park lower shopping level near Bay street) made by a west coast artist that had in its description reference to the wisdom hat. The top of the totem had the figure of an elder (deceased IIRC) and this figure was wearing a hat made of several rings stacked above each other. The description indicated that the number of rings indicated the wisdom of the elder. You can see such a hat in the photo:
I've seen such hats on other poles, including one in the British Museum in 2009.
What I have never seen is a description of wisdom hats in place other than the Toronto art work. Does anyone have a source for such a thing - I think it would be good to add to the article if it is legit. 99.245.248.91 ( talk) 01:15, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
This is arguably one of the most recognizable of all totem poles, being featured on a well-known $1 Canadian Stamp, as well as being prominently displayed in the British Museum. Does anyone oppose the British Museum being referenced in the "Totem Poles of Note" section in the notable collections list? I believe the examples in the British Museum deserve reference in this article. IcehouseCover ( talk) 23:11, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
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The article begins by stating that "[t]otem poles are monumental sculptures carved on poles, posts, or pillars with symbols or figures made from large trees, mostly western red cedar, by indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest coast of North America (northwestern United States and Canada's western province, British Columbia)". I don't understand how a symbol or figure can possibly be "made from large trees". Imerologul Valah ( talk) 08:57, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Now we have a new article Ceremonial pole, Please see and include suitable improvements , if any, in article Ceremonial pole].
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It appears as though there's none on Wikipedia. Is there a reason these have been omitted? Are they under a different name for some reason? This cultures are where totem poles originated and spread so it's surprising the oldest totem poles aren't listed here! 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 08:02, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
I'd be very interested to learn about nordic/germanic totem YogiHalim ( talk) 10:20, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
While it may not exactly towering pole, Polynesian or Formosan culture often referred as "tiki" also feature animal / human depiction stacked on top of one another. I was here looking for some collection of information regarding this similarity which is quite obvious to me, don't you think? YogiHalim ( talk) 10:19, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
Also several Tungisic tribes (eg. the Nanai, the Amur) in Eastern Siberia carve idol poles quite similar to totem poles of the PacNW native tribes. reference: Totem Poles Before 1700 AD Around the Pacific Rim by Patty Inglish, seems like i can't share a hubpages link 119.236.47.178 ( talk) 21:57, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
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