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"Miller uses licentious sex scenes to set the stage for his philosophical discussions of self, love, marriage and happiness."
I'm not a native speaker. I just looked up the word "licentious" in a dictionary, and I wondered whether the English word has a negative connotation? All the corresponding German words do. If it does, should it be changed to something else? Gershake ( talk) 01:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
- I haven't read this book, so perhaps I shouldn't comment, but yes, the term has a negative connotation. 70.152.70.38 ( talk) 01:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Then we'd be judging the book, which we shouldn't do, right? Proposals on different words to the same effect? "graphic", maybe? Gershake ( talk) 01:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
- That's a quote from the New York Times from when the book was first published, not part of the text of the article.-- 75.173.77.62 ( talk) 23:17, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- Gaghhh! Gershake, your comment is so wrongheaded and inept, it makes me want to scream. Aside from the fact that the word "licentious" is quoted from a review by the NYT so no of course we should not change it ... so what if it has a negative connotation? Did you even read the sentence? The word isn't about the author, or his book, it's about sex scenes, between (semi) fictional characters. Books can contain negative events or characters with negative traits without the book itself being bad ... sheesh. And the NYT isn't even judging anyone, it's characterizing the sex as wanton, promiscuous, etc. ... which it surely is. If you think those are negative things, that's up to you. The fact that Miller's language is "graphic" is a completely different matter (and in 1968, NYT readers wouldn't have known what was meant by that). -- Jibal ( talk) 08:57, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
" … around the mid-way point of the novel, and for the remainder of the trilogy, her name is changed to Mona without explanation."
On the first page of the section "Volume Three" of Sexus, it reads: "It was under Kronski's influence that Mara decided to change her name again—from Mara to Mona." Is this not explanation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.13.36 ( talk) 02:22, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Furthermore, on p. 211 of the 1965 Grove Press edition of Sexus: "I was not aware, when I first knew Mona, how much she needed me. Nor did I realize how great a transformation she had made of her life, her habits, her background, her antecedents, in order to offer me that ideal image of herself which she had all too quickly suspected that I had created. She had changed everything - her name, her birthplace, her mother, her upbringing, her friends, her tastes, even her desires. It was characteristic of her that she should want to change my name too, which she did. I was now Val..." Miller's explanation is clear: Mona changes, not just her name, but her whole personality and even her past, in order to suit him and to forge an unblemished foundation for their relationship. -- Leegbrooks ( talk) 21:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Good points all. I have updated that line based on what Miller says in Sexus right when Mara changes her name to Mona. I have included a Google Books link to the passage in the citation. Miller doesn't exactly give a detailed reason of why Mara changes her name, stating vaguely that it is under the influence of his friend Dr. Kronski and that the name change accompanied "other, more significant changes." If anyone has a better way to phrase it, please do so.-- Bernie44 ( talk) 17:19, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
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"Miller uses licentious sex scenes to set the stage for his philosophical discussions of self, love, marriage and happiness."
I'm not a native speaker. I just looked up the word "licentious" in a dictionary, and I wondered whether the English word has a negative connotation? All the corresponding German words do. If it does, should it be changed to something else? Gershake ( talk) 01:17, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
- I haven't read this book, so perhaps I shouldn't comment, but yes, the term has a negative connotation. 70.152.70.38 ( talk) 01:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Then we'd be judging the book, which we shouldn't do, right? Proposals on different words to the same effect? "graphic", maybe? Gershake ( talk) 01:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
- That's a quote from the New York Times from when the book was first published, not part of the text of the article.-- 75.173.77.62 ( talk) 23:17, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
- Gaghhh! Gershake, your comment is so wrongheaded and inept, it makes me want to scream. Aside from the fact that the word "licentious" is quoted from a review by the NYT so no of course we should not change it ... so what if it has a negative connotation? Did you even read the sentence? The word isn't about the author, or his book, it's about sex scenes, between (semi) fictional characters. Books can contain negative events or characters with negative traits without the book itself being bad ... sheesh. And the NYT isn't even judging anyone, it's characterizing the sex as wanton, promiscuous, etc. ... which it surely is. If you think those are negative things, that's up to you. The fact that Miller's language is "graphic" is a completely different matter (and in 1968, NYT readers wouldn't have known what was meant by that). -- Jibal ( talk) 08:57, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
" … around the mid-way point of the novel, and for the remainder of the trilogy, her name is changed to Mona without explanation."
On the first page of the section "Volume Three" of Sexus, it reads: "It was under Kronski's influence that Mara decided to change her name again—from Mara to Mona." Is this not explanation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.13.36 ( talk) 02:22, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Furthermore, on p. 211 of the 1965 Grove Press edition of Sexus: "I was not aware, when I first knew Mona, how much she needed me. Nor did I realize how great a transformation she had made of her life, her habits, her background, her antecedents, in order to offer me that ideal image of herself which she had all too quickly suspected that I had created. She had changed everything - her name, her birthplace, her mother, her upbringing, her friends, her tastes, even her desires. It was characteristic of her that she should want to change my name too, which she did. I was now Val..." Miller's explanation is clear: Mona changes, not just her name, but her whole personality and even her past, in order to suit him and to forge an unblemished foundation for their relationship. -- Leegbrooks ( talk) 21:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Good points all. I have updated that line based on what Miller says in Sexus right when Mara changes her name to Mona. I have included a Google Books link to the passage in the citation. Miller doesn't exactly give a detailed reason of why Mara changes her name, stating vaguely that it is under the influence of his friend Dr. Kronski and that the name change accompanied "other, more significant changes." If anyone has a better way to phrase it, please do so.-- Bernie44 ( talk) 17:19, 23 August 2012 (UTC)