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What a bunch of twats we have on Wikipedia! Siddhartha Gautama, as the article should be named, was born as a Hindu and was a Hindu all his life. "Buddhism" as a religion emerged after his death. He was a kshatriya prince born in Ancient India (not Nepal you morons). He was born a Hindu and just because he didn't practice ritualistic Hinduism doesn't mean was not a Hindu. Funny you bastards never mention that and even have the temerity to write that "modern day Hinduism didn't exist back then"! This is a blatant error! The Vedas were written thousands of years before Siddhartha Gautama was born and to say that Hinduism didn't exist then is completely erroneous and offensive. To also call the article "Gautama Buddha" is highly misleading as it refers to the person SIDDHARTHA GAUTAMA! "Buddha" is a title you nincompoops! His name was not "Buddha". He was born in a HINDU KINGDOM as a HINDU and lived as a renunciate just like many HINDU RISHIS of those days. SHITIPEDIA as it should be called is edited by a bunch of biased and idiotic untouchables (westerners among others) and should NEVER be used as a useful reference to anything. I'm actively spreading the fact that this website is so hopeless that it should be avoided if someone wants real and reliable info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.39.64 ( talk) 19:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
From the article: "Siddhartha was born in Lumbini, Nepal." What is the source for this claim? Please remove unless source can be cited. Samson101 03:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
It is so disapointing that some Indians claim Buddha was born in India...and it's so hard to keep up with them because there are so many Indians(compare the size of India and Nepal) what is Nepal like? ant in front of an elephant! but we are not giving up. i am been to Lumbini several times and it says clearly Buddha was born here! and Lumbini is in Nepal. type lumbini in wikipidia and find out the map of nepal it clearly shows Lumbini is in Nepal! and Nepal was never taken over by India! can any one site sources claiming Nepal was taken over by India....by some genuine scholars who actually believes in research(Indians not allowed)! p.s. i am so glad mount everest is not on India's border otherwise they would clain that mount everest was theirs too! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.17.56.3 ( talk) 04:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
People really need to turn some history pages here. Buddha was a Shakya Prince of country once called Kapilavastu which later became part of Modern Nepal and the place now famously called as Lumbini. Neither Nepal nor its part Lumbini was ever ruled by any other indian or british rulers. Nepal has always been an independent country. Karms ( talk) 00:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
To above posters: but you do know that Nepal did not exist until a few centuries ago right??? Also, during Buddha's time Kapilavstu was part of many of the kshatriya kingdoms of Aryavarta or as Ancient India was know to ancient Indians(today's south-asians) in the north. The name NEPAL doesnot exist in Buddhist or ancient hindu etymology. It is strictly a much recent construct(a few hundered years old) mainly to define the kingdom of Gurkhas. Besides the region of Kapilavastu is in Terai which is linguistically or culturally more a part of terai and eastern UP than mountain valleys of upper Nepal. Just because the British and the Gurkhas agreed to a boundary that left Lumbini a few KMS inside Nepal doesn't take away the fact that Siddhartha was an Kshatiya prince from Kapilavstu(a kingdom spanning across the current India/Nepal border). Most of his life was spent around Rajgir, Sarnath, kusinagar and bodh gaya all in Eastern UP or Bihar today but were in Magadha etc. at the time. Doesn't make him a UPite or Bihari, and yes entire Terai; of which Lumbini is a part, has been a part of every major Indian empire up until the Mughals. Its only after the treaty with the british that it was firmly placed a few kms inside Nepal, even by that measure much of the kingdom of shakyas was to the south of capital Lumbini which would be modern India. Anyhow we are not talking about modern India or Nepal, so this discussion is meaningless. Read HISTORY before claiming anything. Nepal is a much recent construct Kapilavastu was a kingdom spanning the present regions of Terai and Awadh in Nepal and India. Do you think the kingdom had its capital at the very border, which according to you lay at the present India/Nepal border and do you really think that Pokhara and Kathmandu were part of Shakya kingdom??? Now thats bit of a stretch.
Nepal as a unit did not exist until a few hundered years ago. Kapilavastu and the shakyas ruled an area that was the region of Kosala according to ancient text or the history pages you talk about, and we all know Kosala was pretty much todays Awadh, terai and the foothills of modern Nepal and yes Kapilavastu did span across both sides of Indo-Nepalese border, Lumbini is barely inside Nepal just a few kms from the border agreed to by Gurkhas and the british in which British gave much of the terai part of Oudh to the Gurkha kingdom of Nepal(again no relation to much ancient shakyas of Buddha) and settled the mountain border in their own favour. They did the same thing with the Dogra kingdom of Jammu and Kashmir, giving them the plains around Jammu while getting more strategic heights further north. In any event Shakya kingdom doesNOT correspond to modern Nepal but the middle terai of India/Nepal and foothills of modern Nepal and northern Oudh region of modern India. Also the entire Kosala of which Kapilavastu was a part of has been a part of every major Indian empire upto the Mughals, even early days of the British empire until the boundary was agreed to with the Nepalese kingdom and yes there is only one Lumbini and it is in modern Nepal(in a part which was ruled by every Indian empire worth its name). Earlier it was thought during intial excavations that Lumbini was a site first excavated on the Indian side of the present border, but its pretty much agreed to by all historians now after further excavations that the present Lumbini is the actual location. Again Nepal didnot exist back then and Kosala and Kapilavastu were part of Aryavarta, and the region was ruled by pretty much every major ancient and medieval Indian empire.
Just as meditation is exercised with the eyes half-open, we should look at national boundaries and ethnic boundaries with blurred discrimination, as makeshifts for conversation only. For that reason it seems reasonable to state the Buddha was born in ancient India in the area that became modern Nepal, or other mingled language resembling that. I defer to experts on the history for the precise wording, but it seems desirable to give everyone credit who deserves it. Generosity within the truth makes agreement far easier.
To above poster: Nepal was all the time there and still is and never was colonized by anybody in the world. It was unified by a King Prithivi Narayan Shah around 1700 and was much bigger than it is now. Nepal lost much of its territory in the war with Britain Anglo-Nepalese War (1814-1816) which ended up with Sugauli treaty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugauli_Treaty . There is nothing like Britain gave anything to Nepal. There was war between British force and Nepali force and they ended the war with the treaty. So don’t go and say British gave anything. If we are talking about birthplace of Buddha then lets write the name of the place where he was actually born.
Lets say someone was born in New-York, so when asked to this person about his birthplace then he will neither say North-America or tell
“””During the 17th century, Dutch trading posts established for the purchase of pelts from the Iroquois and other tribes expanded into the colony of New Netherlands. The first of these trading posts were Fort Nassau (1614, near present-day Albany); Fort Orange (1624, on the Hudson River just south of nowadays city of Albany (to replace the already mentioned Fort Nassau), developing into settlement Beverwijck (1647), and into nowadays Albany); Fort Amsterdam (1625, to develop into the town New Amsterdam which is present-day New York City); and Esopus, (1653, now Kingston). The British captured the colony during the Second Anglo-Dutch War and governed it as the Province of New York. Agitation for independence during the 1770s brought the American Revolution, which for New York was also a civil war.”” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_york#History
But he would simply say New York.
Other example Check out how birthplace of Jesus is written and also the location of Taj Mahal which existed before the existence of Current Israel and India respectively.
So, in my opinion it is right of the people to know the exact location of the birthplace of Buddha and also to know where it is located currently. So “Buddha was born in Kapilvastu in Rupandehi District, Lumbini Zone of Nepal.
Let’s not try to deny the fact and mislead the people to make them believe that birthplace of Buddha lies in the modern Indian Territory by calling the location Ancient India.
P.S: India was the name given by the British ruler to the sub-continent they ruled, so let’s not make a fuss about that name Nepal cannot be seen in the ancient Hindu or Buddhist writings. I can grantee you that Nepal can be traced back in the history before than mere 1947. I’m sorry if I offended any Indian for my argument. But I want you to understand the seriousness of the issue here.
And I would like to ask something to Indians. “How would you feel, if somebody would say that your father or grandfather is not an Indian because he was born during the British rule and India as country like now did not existed back then which means you are also not Indian because your father or grandfather was not one.
Peace
The lack of citations for various statements of fact made in this article is an impediment to it being considered as a good/reliable article or even as a Feature Article. This is unsatisfactory considering that this article is about an important subject. More work needs to be done in relation to citing credible publications to back the information provided in this article, wherever possible. It is apparent from the preceding userpage topic ("No source provided for claim about birthplace"), that there may be reliable sources of information out there, but these are strangely not being reported in the article. A casual reader could easily ask questions such as this:
"Is he really born in Location X? How did you know? Did someone find that out through archaeological study, or are there other forms of evidence published about it? If no source is cited then anyone could have mentioned any other place to be his place of birth, couldn't he/she?"
This puts the validity of the statement/s made in this article in question. How does one prevent the possibility of this happening? Simple: just cite a reliable source to back up the statement/s made. This is a basic rule in publishing scientific/factual works, which I hope will be adhered to in transforming this article into a high-quality article. Samson101 03:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
1. You don't need to keep an encyclopedic tone in talk pages; 2. This isn't the end of the world. Nobody's going to react like you say, and there are in fact plenty of people who do not even check if something is cited. The world is more trusting than that; 3. There are hundreds, if not thousands of better thinks we could focus on. Zazaban 16:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Samson, thanks a lot for putting in some references. Really appreciated. Cheers!! =) Nay Min Thu 11:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Wondering if any of you experts here could suggest what should be done with the article Buddha's Relic and Jetavanaramya. I suggested that it should be merged here, but there is so much in that article that I do not understand that I cannot really be sure. There are no sources, no dates and there are many personages and places mentioned that cannot be linked to, perhaps because of transliteration problems. The text there also seems to contradict what is said in other articles about what happened to the Buddha's physical body after his parinirvana (e.g. that he was cremated). (I hope I'm using the right language, don't want to offend anyone.) If anyone could help out, would be very grateful. Itsmejudith 10:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
From lead paragraph: "He is universally recognised by Buddhists as the Supreme Buddha of our age." A reader may wonder, upon reading the above sentence, he is the Supreme Buddha in relation to what? So it would be good if it can be explained following this sentence what 'Supreme Buddha of our age' means (it can be explained, e.g., that the Supreme Buddha is the primary spiritual leader in the group of other Buddhas (enlightened ones) who may have existed in the past -- I'm not sure but you get my drift). Samson101 11:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the statement is true: according to Peter Harvey's Introduction to Buddhism, Soka Gakkai regard Nichiren as the Supreme Buddha. Peter jackson 11:16, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Why is there nothing here about the Buddha being born from his mother's armpit? Or being protected during a storm by a many headed snake god thing? Or when he beat the crap out of Allah and Muhammed? This page needs a section on the mythos around the Buddha's life.
Absolutely. FasterPussycatWooHoo 12:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Is the mention of Siddhartha's supposed son Rahula included in citation 6 at the end of the paragraph? I'm curious as to this particular mention and how oddly enough nothing more appears to be said about this "Rahula" at any later point in the article. Is there no further mention of the individual in the source texts? ~ SotiCoto 195.33.121.133 17:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Rahula at the age of 20 became a monk in the first sangha.-- 131.238.92.62 12:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
This article claims that he (The Buddha) set in motion the Wheel of Dharma while most, if not all, Buddhist texts claim that the 'wheel' already existed and was turning, albeit slowly. Maybe a better analogy would be that he (the Buddha) greased the Wheel of Dharma rather than set it in motion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Goodvibes ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
The link cited for the dates of his birth and death does not corroborate the dates in the article. Arrow740 17:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
What religion was Gautama born into / raised in, if any? This should be included in the section of the article about his early life, I think. Static Sleepstorm 17:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Gautama Buddha was recently added to List of atheists. I notice he's not in Category:Atheists, nor is he described as an atheist in this article. This was cited in support of the claim, but I'm ambivalent about the source and what it says--that is, I'm not sure (1) if the author's claims are consistent with scholarly consensus, and (2) if the author actually makes the case that Gautama Buddha was an atheist in this article. Any help, such as direction toward reliable sources, would be appreciated. Thankyou. Nick Graves 02:57, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
According to the Pali Canon, Indra and Brahmin asked the Buddha to spread his word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.68.217 ( talk) 00:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Gautam Buddha born in 1894BC and died in 1814BC. please refer below link for more information. [1] [2]
Buddhawaslike Yahoo Group with 45 researched posts about Gotama Buddha Dhammapal 05:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
"The Four Noble Truths: that suffering is an inherent part of existence;" - I believe it would be much more accurate to state, "There is suffering;", as many others do [3] [4] and, more simply, because the Buddha (reportedly) did not state that suffering was inherent to existence, [5]. Suffering is a conditioned phenomena, as is our existence, and as such neither have anything inherent about them. We only experience suffering while we are ignorant, in the same way I only experience the water while I'm in the swimming pool, and like water or a swimming pool are objects, suffering should be declared as such. If suffering was inherent then we could not escape it, and the rest of the Noble Truths would become untrue. Just a few lines later the concept of dependent origination is expounded, and also contradicts this earlier statement. I think this would be an important change as I have come across several people who have misinterpreted, or mistakenly believe, that the Buddha said that life was suffering. Since this is not true and also gives buddhism an ascetic slant that it (shouldn't) doesn't have, I propose the change. Iainspeed 00:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Since Nepal did not exist in its current state in those days, the term used to describe the land of the Buddha in those days is "ancient India" because that is the term used for the general subcontinental era of that time. Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 02:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Buddha was a Shakya prince of country once called Kapilavastu which later became part of Modern Nepal and the place now famously called as Lumbini. Neither Nepal nor its part Lumbini was ever ruled by any other indian or british rulers. Nepal has always been an independent country. Karms ( talk) 00:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
To above poster: but you do know that Nepal didnot exist until a few centuries ago right??? Also, during Buddha's time Kapilavstu was part of many of the kshatriya kingdoms of Aryavarta or as Ancient India was know to Indians(today's south-asians) in the north. The name NEPAL doesnot exist in Buddhist or ancient hindu etymology. Its strictly a much recent construct mainly to define the kingdom of Gurkhas. Besides the region of Kapilavastu is in Terai which is linguistically or culturally more a part of eastern UP than mountain valleys of upper Nepal. Just because the British and the Gurkhas agreed to a boundary that left Lumbini a few KMS inside Nepal doesn't take away the fact that Siddhartha was an Kshatiya prince from Kapilavstu(a kingdom spanning across the current India/Nepal border). Most of his life was spent around Rajgir, Sarnath, kusinagar and bodh gaya all in Eastern UP or Bihar today but were in Magadha etc. at the time. Doesn't make him a UPite or Bihari, and yes entire Terai; of which Lumbini is a part, has been a part of every major Indian empire up until the Mughals. Its only after the treaty with the british that it was firmly placed a few kms inside Nepal, even by that measure much of the kingdom of shakyas was to the south of capital Lumbini which would be modern India. Anyhow we are not talking about modern India or Nepal, so this discussion is meaningless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 ( talk) 03:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
To above poster: may be you want to read what i have written above about buddha's birthplace.... before you go amok with your arguments.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jazzmand ( talk • contribs) 16:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I think there's been a longstanding consensus on this page to describe the Buddha's place of origin as "ancient India". Let's keep it that way and unprotect.— Nat Krause( Talk!· What have I done?) 02:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Lumbini is very close to the Indo-nepalese border today, this area was part of Oudh and was given with the rest of Terai to Nepal in lieu of the conquered Himalayan territories(by Nepalese army) by the British. In any event Nepal didnot exist during the time of Buddha or until a few centuries years ago. The whole area was part of hindu kingdoms of Aryavarta. Much of his life was spent in present day Indian states of Uttar Pradesh or Bihar, even if Uttarpradesh or Bihar become separate kingdoms/countries centuries down the road buddha will still be know as an Ancient Indian prince. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
199.126.199.122 (
talk) 21:30, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I want to replace the copyrighted Image: Avatars.jpg with Image:AvatarsVishnu.jpg, which is a PD-art image. As the page is protected, I can't do so. I request the adminstrators to do so.-- Redtigerxyz 06:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
In Buddha as viewed by other religions section, Hinduism sub-section; Main article: Buddhism and Hinduism should be replaced by Buddha as an Avatar of Vishnu. As the former discusses the wider simlarities and differences in the religions, while the latter discusses Buddha from the Hindu angle.-- Redtigerxyz 06:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
It should be renamed, either to "The Buddha" or "Siddhartha Gautama." The current title is not as widely used as the other two, and in my experience is most commonly used where there is some ambiguity as to which Buddha is meant. Should we vote? Arrow740 22:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Gautama Buddha
The Buddha
Siddhartha Gautama
Some thoughts:
More thoughts:
So I vote for renaming this article either Buddha or the Buddha, with the other article renamed Buddhas. Peter jackson 11:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
On the point a few lines up about participants; WP isn't for participants; it's for readers.
on the Caesar analogy: Caesar without qualification is understood as referring to the particular gaius julius Caesar who was assassinated in 44BC. Peter jackson 11:16, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. Buddha may also refer to:
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Some more thoughts. Someone above referred to Mahayana. This may bemore important than I first thought. Buddha to many Buddhists may mean, not Gotama/Gautama, but his sambhogakaya (Nichiren, perhaps Tendai), Amitabha (Pure Land), Vairocana (Shingon) ... Maybe disambiguation? Or just amalgamate the articles? Peter jackson 11:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the suggestion to make a disambiguation page is very good, to avoid confusion about the Buddha and Buddhas etc... Also, Buddha is a much more appropraite name for an article about the buddha, and buddhahood is a much better name for an article about, really, buddhahood. I would suggest doing th voting again, these alternatives were not present. The voting should really be about the pair of articles together. Greetings, Sacca 08:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. Buddha may also refer to:
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What's so special about the Buddhas mentioned in the Pali Canon? There are thousands of others mentioned in Buddhist literature. Peter jackson 10:43, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I repeat, there's nothing special about the 28 Buddhas. Peter jackson 11:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
By the way, what do we think about the example of the article on the Dalai Lama? The vast majority of people, when looking for information on "the Dalai Lama" will be thinking specifically of the current one, and they will very likely be basically ignorant of the various other Dalai Lamas. They will also very likely not know the current Dalai Lama's personal name, Tenzin Gyatso. And yet, the article Dalai Lama is not an article about Tenzin Gyatso, or even a disambiguation page. It is about the Dalai Lamas in general. This strikes me as a similar case. Do we also conclude that Dalai Lama should be moved?— Nat Krause( Talk!· What have I done?) 04:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
While discussion (if any) at Talk:Buddha proceeds regarding its pending (I think?) name change, I thought it might be useful to continue the discussion here about a tentative dab page replacement for it. (The dab page is "tentative" because I want to allow anyone who might still feel strongly that this page, Gautama Buddha, should be moved to Buddha to feel comfortable voicing such a view.) Based on the aforementioned encyclopedia dictionary articles ( #Other on-line encyclopedia's "Buddha" entries) as well as my understandng of the above feedback from PeterJ and others, the current proposed dab I think is somethink like this:
Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. "Buddha" may also refer to:
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The first sentence's "Gautama Buddha" should be linked to whatever name this current article takes. The first bulleted sentence should be somehow linked to whatever article name the current Buddha article will be moved to (whether Buddhahood, Buddhas, Buddha (general), sammasambuddha, Buddha (Buddhism), etc.).
I'm in no way attached to any part of this proposed dab page and would very much welcome thoughtful feedback? Thanks so much, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 21:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. "Buddha" may also refer to:
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Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. "Buddha" may also refer to:
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Am I the only one who's forgotten or overlooked that there is already a Buddha (disambiguation) page? Assuming we go ahead with replacing the current Buddha article with a dab page, should we just copy/move this existing Buddha (disambiguation) page to Buddha? Perhaps the above suggested dab could be incorporated into the existing Buddha (disambiguation) page? (Outside of references to Buddha statues in the above and to the three types of Buddha in the existing page, the major difference to the opening sentences appears to be one of emphasis, perhaps revealing the difference between Theravada and Mahayana perspectives? The existing page also, commendably, has significant material on non-spiritual and non-Buddhist references to "Buddha.") Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 21:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Just to follow-up, based on the vote at Talk:Buddha#Renaming_vote, the up-until-fifteen-minutes-ago Buddha page has been moved to Buddha (general). ( Buddhahood is also now a redirect to Buddha (general).) As perhaps many of you could have predicted, I regrettably need admin assistance to move the current Buddha (disambiguation) page to the Buddha space. So I've put in the formal request at WP:RM and have followed the procedure re: tagging Talk:Buddha (disambiguation) and starting yet another thread at Talk:Buddha_(disambiguation)#Requested_move. I'm hoping this latter move can take place relatively quickly. (Thanks for your all's patience!)
Thanks to the many of you who have been supportive of this process and shared your much-valued thoughts and opinions. I am grateful. Hopefully these initial moves might even last awhile (though maybe when I wake up tomorrow it will all be reverted....) My best to you all, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 09:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
P.S. In case anyone might be concerned, I plan to start reviewing the 2500 links to Buddha over the next few days to try to sort out which ones should now link where.
P.P.S. Oops. Turns out it appears that the majority of links -- as we previously surmised -- that go to Buddha should actually go to the current Gautama Buddha. Given the pending article moves (title changes), etc., I'm inclined to not diligently go through the aforementioned link list now but instead to make it an occasional background task over the next few months. Any objections? Thanks, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 05:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Sammasambuddha is suffering from a circular redirect. There is currently no way to find the article by typing in either Buddha or Sammasambuddha. Can someone who knows more fix this? thanks -- lk 05:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Can someone check the sources cited as not accepting the shorter chronology? I have a feeling the Schumann book is just a reprint of an old publication, so irrelevant here. Also, I did see an article by Wayman arguing for the long chronology, & it made no mention of the arguments of Bechert, Gombrich, Norman, Cousins &c for a shorter chronology, responding only to Japanese scholars. This would also be irrelevant. Peter jackson 11:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The article seems to make no attempt to distinguish the 2. Peter jackson 11:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
"Scholars are increasingly reluctant to make unqualified claims about the historical facts of the Buddha's life and teachings." (Lopez, Buddhism in Practice, p16)
At present the article seems to be a rather chaotic mixture of Theravada fundamentalism, legends & assorted theories. Peter jackson 12:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Is this typical of Wikipedia? There's an enormous amount of discussion above about the name of the article, but my comments about the content have attracted little response. Peter jackson 09:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
"(Sakyamuni Buddha's) physical characteristics are described in one of the central texts of the traditional Pali canon, the Digha Nikaya." -- This needed tweaking (and needs more), as (A) Digha Nikaya is better described as "a collection", rather than as "a text", and (B) we should therefore specify just where in Digha Nikaya said descriptions of Sakyamuni Buddha occur. -- Writtenonsand 14:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
It's likely the 32 marks were a visualization, as described in Chih-i's Mo-ho-chih-kuan. Peter jackson 12:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Apart from the 2 refs you give, I think the only other place in the Canon where they're listed is the Brahmayu sutta in the Majjhima, though they're mentioned elsewhere. The Penguin Handbook says something about the visualization, though I can't remember exactly what. Peter jackson 12:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Most of those refs will be to the stock description of a learned brahmin, eg in Ambattha sutta. Peter jackson 12:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Gautam Buddha was born in Nepal. I have come across several articles where it says he is from India. This totally misleading information. I watched the show Are you smarter than 5th grader where they also claimed that Buddha was from India. I truly believe that Nepal being a small country India is dominating it historical facts. I think this claim of Buddha being a part of India needs to be revised and the right information needs to be passed across every one. I am shocked that the pride of Nepal is being taken away by wrong information —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.49.233.30 ( talk) 15:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
That is why the term 'Ancient Indian' has been used here. Nepal at the time it was part of Aryavrata or Northern India. Even Buddha's own birth place and kingdom were both located along the present day indo-nepalese border, What is believed to be Lumbini is barely inside Nepal, much of the kingdom was to the south and east of Lumbini which falls in present day India also Kapilavastu region is on either side of the border. A good chunk of the kingdom was in Present day Uttar pradesh. Nepal didnot exist at the time. Besides Buddha attained enlightenment in India and wandered around Northern Indian regions of Rajagaha, Magadha etc. for most of his life and attained enlightenment in Bodh Gaya, Bihar(the birth place of Buddhism) and attained parinirvana in Kushinara which is again in present day India. Also, the region of Kosala(buddha's native place) was an ancient Indian Aryan kingdom, corresponding roughly in area with the region of Oudh in eastern UP and southern fringes of Nepal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.126.199.122 ( talk) 02:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Lumbini is very close to the Indo-nepalese border today, this area was part of Awadh and was given with the rest of terai to Nepal in exchange of the conquered Himalayan territories(by the kingdom of Nepal in Bengal and Uttaranchal) by the British. In any event Nepal didnot exist during the time of Buddha or until a few centuries years ago. The whole area was part of hindu kingdoms of Aryavarta. Much of his life was spent in present day Indian states of Uttar Pradesh or Bihar, that is where buddhism was born, even if Uttarpradesh or Bihar become separate kingdoms/countries centuries down the road buddha will still be know as an Ancient Indian prince. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.126.199.122 ( talk) 21:36, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
70.22.8.153 ( talk) 02:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC) (Siddhartha made the 4 noble truths), he had tried many ways to find the truth he finally found enlightenment by meditating also.[[Image: http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTb_0BvY5HtlsAxgejzbkF/SIG=11ku7ricm/EXP=1200623233/**http%3A//www.naljor.com/dharma.htm -- 70.22.8.153 ( talk) 02:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)marisa mckenzie 6 grade giving you advice.
This article really ought cover the views of historians on which bits of the story of the Buddha's life are historically accurate. (What other article could it belong in?) How should this be formatted?
The former would look rather odd. The latter wouldn't flow. Peter jackson ( talk) 11:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Large chunks of this article are reproduced from http://www.fundamentalbuddhism.com/who-was-buddha.html without attribution. Not being a regular editor here, I'll leave the question of rewrite vs citation open without comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.250.33.183 ( talk) 08:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
India even is a big country but try to steal the good ancient reputation of Nepal. India also destroys the tourism in Nepal. So we all Nepali think that Indians are greedy of Neplese fame. [Proud People from Lumbini,Nepal] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.70.64.41 ( talk) 12:47, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Knowing the fact that Gautam Buddha was born in Kapilvastu, Lumbini, which is now a part of NEpal, stop claiming that he was born in India. The whole wide world knows the fact and this the time India should accept it too.
People need to be educated on this matter.
Gautam Buddha was born in Kapilvastu, Lumbini, which is now a part of NEpal.
It is ridiculous that knowing the truth the Indians still claim that he was born in India.
People should be ashamed to claim some other country's asset as our own.
People need to be educated on this matter, especially when UNESCO (United Nations' Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) has claimed support the fact that Buddha was born in Nepal, and thus has listed Lumbini in their World Heritage Site.
Nepal is far smaller and less powerful than India but that does not mean that India should take advantage of this fact.
Use your conscience and ponder over it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pratikchh ( talk • contribs) 03:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering if tommorow Nepal was to break up lets say into Terai, Pokharaland or Gorkhaland, will then we all have to say Buddha was a Teraian prince???(and conform to your view that terai was never ruled by any indian empire lol) or worse if Nepalese gov and the maoists so beholden to Chinese communists and so dead set agianst India and Tibet were to form some sort of union with the Chinese, then would it be safe to say that Buddha was a Chinese prince born in the chinese part of the ancient Shakya kingdom??? ahhh you people accept that Lumbini is in modern Nepal and Nepal didnot exist until much recent times and the terai was part of ancient and medieval Indian kingdoms including that of the Shakyas, or as ancient texts say was part of many kingdoms of Aryavarta(Ancient India). Its funny how so many talk of the country/kingdom of Nepal as if it has existed politically since time immemorial, when it is one of the youngest in the world.
to above poster.... so if it is the case.. then lets delete all the word "India" in this page because 1. India is the name given by British people before it was called Bharat. 2. India came to an existance since 1947. Before that there were 100's of small countries where the last ones were in existance till late 1970's.....and no country called India was there anywhere before 1947...there are still separatist movement going on within India these days....anyway Lets follow your argument ""Mr. Deer"". According to your argument lets change the name ""Ancient India"" To ""Shakya Kingdom"" which currently is in mordern Nepal""... Also mentioned in the page Timeline of Buddhism ..Now what do you have to say?!!
Now what do you have to say?!!!!
Here's a nice photograph of the fasting Buddha ( Gandhara, circa 2nd century CE). Please feel free to include it in the article. PHG ( talk) 20:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
IN the Buddha Hinduism section, it says that Modern Hinduism didnt exist and I think thats a somewhat mis leading thing to put down. Yes things may have been different but when you put a sentence like that it makes a person who is not familar with Hinduism think "OK Hinduism wasnt that big back then, or maybe the person might think "Ok Hinduism didnt really exist back then"....HInduism is the oldest known religion (or one of the oldest) and to say modern Hinduism didnt exist isnt really neccassary to put is it? I mean it existed back then so I think that statemen should be taken out. 71.105.82.152 ( talk) 23:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Why are most of the pictures of broken statues? Are there any pictures of statues that aren't broken? Mitsube ( talk) 20:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
"Scholars are increasingly reluctant to make unqualified claims about the historical facts of the Buddha's life and teachings." [1] What are the qualified claims and what are the qualifications? Such a broad attack on Buddhist history should not be the last line of the intro especially since there's little about this in the body. There's already a mention that the monks elaborated on things. Mitsube ( talk) 23:56, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
it is a really sorry story that so many indians (particularly from North India) feel and strongly believe that Siddhartha Gautama, was born in India. To make matters very clear, I strongly all of you to visit a place called Lumbini, in south-western region of Nepal bordering India. Once you visit that place, all your doubts, even the tiniest iota, will be clear.
There is even a glorious pillar, the Ashok Pillar, built by the famous Indian Emperor Ashoka, that stands just besides the birthplace of Siddhartha.
I dont want to offend here. But people are clearly being disillusioned by certain issues pertaining to the birth of the Buddha. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riteshlamsal ( talk • contribs) 19:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
The Hinduism section is utter nonsense and isn't worth salvaging. If someone can come up with non-partisan, encyclopedic wording, go for it. JohnGlasheen ( talk) 01:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey,
I know Indians want something more all the time to say that they are proud of their country but leave Nepal and Buddha out please. Buddha was born in ancient HINDU COUNTRY NOT ANCIENT INDIA. First of all India was not formed till late. Also even if he was Hindu so what Nepal is a Hindu country. Does that mean Nepal is India? And stop calling us with shit names and calling us morons. We have given you out greatest of ancient warriors to assist in the battle against the British in the past like Bir Balbhadra Kunwar, who again you may claim was a Indain. If Indains and the whole of India actually wants to take the birth place of Buddha (Lumbini) then all it needs to do is send its forces and kill us Nepalis. If not accept the TRUTH.
Demogorgon
South asia comprises all the area of Buddha's life birth place lumbini in Nepal and the Bodh Gaya place where he was enlightened. To write Ancient India only serves the purpose of Indians trying to say that Buddha was born in India. They even have created a fake city inside India which is called Lumbini to confuse the rest of world about the birthplace of Buddha. To the people who are still confused about the birth place of Buddha then please refer to the page lumbini, there now we have everything cleared.
Thank you!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jazzmand ( talk • contribs) 11:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
What a bunch of twats we have on Wikipedia! Siddhartha Gautama, as the article should be named, was born as a Hindu and was a Hindu all his life. "Buddhism" as a religion emerged after his death. He was a kshatriya prince born in Ancient India (not Nepal you morons). He was born a Hindu and just because he didn't practice ritualistic Hinduism doesn't mean was not a Hindu. Funny you bastards never mention that and even have the temerity to write that "modern day Hinduism didn't exist back then"! This is a blatant error! The Vedas were written thousands of years before Siddhartha Gautama was born and to say that Hinduism didn't exist then is completely erroneous and offensive. To also call the article "Gautama Buddha" is highly misleading as it refers to the person SIDDHARTHA GAUTAMA! "Buddha" is a title you nincompoops! His name was not "Buddha". He was born in a HINDU KINGDOM as a HINDU and lived as a renunciate just like many HINDU RISHIS of those days. SHITIPEDIA as it should be called is edited by a bunch of biased and idiotic untouchables (westerners among others) and should NEVER be used as a useful reference to anything. I'm actively spreading the fact that this website is so hopeless that it should be avoided if someone wants real and reliable info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.39.64 ( talk) 19:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
From the article: "Siddhartha was born in Lumbini, Nepal." What is the source for this claim? Please remove unless source can be cited. Samson101 03:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
It is so disapointing that some Indians claim Buddha was born in India...and it's so hard to keep up with them because there are so many Indians(compare the size of India and Nepal) what is Nepal like? ant in front of an elephant! but we are not giving up. i am been to Lumbini several times and it says clearly Buddha was born here! and Lumbini is in Nepal. type lumbini in wikipidia and find out the map of nepal it clearly shows Lumbini is in Nepal! and Nepal was never taken over by India! can any one site sources claiming Nepal was taken over by India....by some genuine scholars who actually believes in research(Indians not allowed)! p.s. i am so glad mount everest is not on India's border otherwise they would clain that mount everest was theirs too! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.17.56.3 ( talk) 04:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
People really need to turn some history pages here. Buddha was a Shakya Prince of country once called Kapilavastu which later became part of Modern Nepal and the place now famously called as Lumbini. Neither Nepal nor its part Lumbini was ever ruled by any other indian or british rulers. Nepal has always been an independent country. Karms ( talk) 00:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
To above posters: but you do know that Nepal did not exist until a few centuries ago right??? Also, during Buddha's time Kapilavstu was part of many of the kshatriya kingdoms of Aryavarta or as Ancient India was know to ancient Indians(today's south-asians) in the north. The name NEPAL doesnot exist in Buddhist or ancient hindu etymology. It is strictly a much recent construct(a few hundered years old) mainly to define the kingdom of Gurkhas. Besides the region of Kapilavastu is in Terai which is linguistically or culturally more a part of terai and eastern UP than mountain valleys of upper Nepal. Just because the British and the Gurkhas agreed to a boundary that left Lumbini a few KMS inside Nepal doesn't take away the fact that Siddhartha was an Kshatiya prince from Kapilavstu(a kingdom spanning across the current India/Nepal border). Most of his life was spent around Rajgir, Sarnath, kusinagar and bodh gaya all in Eastern UP or Bihar today but were in Magadha etc. at the time. Doesn't make him a UPite or Bihari, and yes entire Terai; of which Lumbini is a part, has been a part of every major Indian empire up until the Mughals. Its only after the treaty with the british that it was firmly placed a few kms inside Nepal, even by that measure much of the kingdom of shakyas was to the south of capital Lumbini which would be modern India. Anyhow we are not talking about modern India or Nepal, so this discussion is meaningless. Read HISTORY before claiming anything. Nepal is a much recent construct Kapilavastu was a kingdom spanning the present regions of Terai and Awadh in Nepal and India. Do you think the kingdom had its capital at the very border, which according to you lay at the present India/Nepal border and do you really think that Pokhara and Kathmandu were part of Shakya kingdom??? Now thats bit of a stretch.
Nepal as a unit did not exist until a few hundered years ago. Kapilavastu and the shakyas ruled an area that was the region of Kosala according to ancient text or the history pages you talk about, and we all know Kosala was pretty much todays Awadh, terai and the foothills of modern Nepal and yes Kapilavastu did span across both sides of Indo-Nepalese border, Lumbini is barely inside Nepal just a few kms from the border agreed to by Gurkhas and the british in which British gave much of the terai part of Oudh to the Gurkha kingdom of Nepal(again no relation to much ancient shakyas of Buddha) and settled the mountain border in their own favour. They did the same thing with the Dogra kingdom of Jammu and Kashmir, giving them the plains around Jammu while getting more strategic heights further north. In any event Shakya kingdom doesNOT correspond to modern Nepal but the middle terai of India/Nepal and foothills of modern Nepal and northern Oudh region of modern India. Also the entire Kosala of which Kapilavastu was a part of has been a part of every major Indian empire upto the Mughals, even early days of the British empire until the boundary was agreed to with the Nepalese kingdom and yes there is only one Lumbini and it is in modern Nepal(in a part which was ruled by every Indian empire worth its name). Earlier it was thought during intial excavations that Lumbini was a site first excavated on the Indian side of the present border, but its pretty much agreed to by all historians now after further excavations that the present Lumbini is the actual location. Again Nepal didnot exist back then and Kosala and Kapilavastu were part of Aryavarta, and the region was ruled by pretty much every major ancient and medieval Indian empire.
Just as meditation is exercised with the eyes half-open, we should look at national boundaries and ethnic boundaries with blurred discrimination, as makeshifts for conversation only. For that reason it seems reasonable to state the Buddha was born in ancient India in the area that became modern Nepal, or other mingled language resembling that. I defer to experts on the history for the precise wording, but it seems desirable to give everyone credit who deserves it. Generosity within the truth makes agreement far easier.
To above poster: Nepal was all the time there and still is and never was colonized by anybody in the world. It was unified by a King Prithivi Narayan Shah around 1700 and was much bigger than it is now. Nepal lost much of its territory in the war with Britain Anglo-Nepalese War (1814-1816) which ended up with Sugauli treaty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugauli_Treaty . There is nothing like Britain gave anything to Nepal. There was war between British force and Nepali force and they ended the war with the treaty. So don’t go and say British gave anything. If we are talking about birthplace of Buddha then lets write the name of the place where he was actually born.
Lets say someone was born in New-York, so when asked to this person about his birthplace then he will neither say North-America or tell
“””During the 17th century, Dutch trading posts established for the purchase of pelts from the Iroquois and other tribes expanded into the colony of New Netherlands. The first of these trading posts were Fort Nassau (1614, near present-day Albany); Fort Orange (1624, on the Hudson River just south of nowadays city of Albany (to replace the already mentioned Fort Nassau), developing into settlement Beverwijck (1647), and into nowadays Albany); Fort Amsterdam (1625, to develop into the town New Amsterdam which is present-day New York City); and Esopus, (1653, now Kingston). The British captured the colony during the Second Anglo-Dutch War and governed it as the Province of New York. Agitation for independence during the 1770s brought the American Revolution, which for New York was also a civil war.”” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_york#History
But he would simply say New York.
Other example Check out how birthplace of Jesus is written and also the location of Taj Mahal which existed before the existence of Current Israel and India respectively.
So, in my opinion it is right of the people to know the exact location of the birthplace of Buddha and also to know where it is located currently. So “Buddha was born in Kapilvastu in Rupandehi District, Lumbini Zone of Nepal.
Let’s not try to deny the fact and mislead the people to make them believe that birthplace of Buddha lies in the modern Indian Territory by calling the location Ancient India.
P.S: India was the name given by the British ruler to the sub-continent they ruled, so let’s not make a fuss about that name Nepal cannot be seen in the ancient Hindu or Buddhist writings. I can grantee you that Nepal can be traced back in the history before than mere 1947. I’m sorry if I offended any Indian for my argument. But I want you to understand the seriousness of the issue here.
And I would like to ask something to Indians. “How would you feel, if somebody would say that your father or grandfather is not an Indian because he was born during the British rule and India as country like now did not existed back then which means you are also not Indian because your father or grandfather was not one.
Peace
The lack of citations for various statements of fact made in this article is an impediment to it being considered as a good/reliable article or even as a Feature Article. This is unsatisfactory considering that this article is about an important subject. More work needs to be done in relation to citing credible publications to back the information provided in this article, wherever possible. It is apparent from the preceding userpage topic ("No source provided for claim about birthplace"), that there may be reliable sources of information out there, but these are strangely not being reported in the article. A casual reader could easily ask questions such as this:
"Is he really born in Location X? How did you know? Did someone find that out through archaeological study, or are there other forms of evidence published about it? If no source is cited then anyone could have mentioned any other place to be his place of birth, couldn't he/she?"
This puts the validity of the statement/s made in this article in question. How does one prevent the possibility of this happening? Simple: just cite a reliable source to back up the statement/s made. This is a basic rule in publishing scientific/factual works, which I hope will be adhered to in transforming this article into a high-quality article. Samson101 03:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
1. You don't need to keep an encyclopedic tone in talk pages; 2. This isn't the end of the world. Nobody's going to react like you say, and there are in fact plenty of people who do not even check if something is cited. The world is more trusting than that; 3. There are hundreds, if not thousands of better thinks we could focus on. Zazaban 16:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Samson, thanks a lot for putting in some references. Really appreciated. Cheers!! =) Nay Min Thu 11:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Wondering if any of you experts here could suggest what should be done with the article Buddha's Relic and Jetavanaramya. I suggested that it should be merged here, but there is so much in that article that I do not understand that I cannot really be sure. There are no sources, no dates and there are many personages and places mentioned that cannot be linked to, perhaps because of transliteration problems. The text there also seems to contradict what is said in other articles about what happened to the Buddha's physical body after his parinirvana (e.g. that he was cremated). (I hope I'm using the right language, don't want to offend anyone.) If anyone could help out, would be very grateful. Itsmejudith 10:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
From lead paragraph: "He is universally recognised by Buddhists as the Supreme Buddha of our age." A reader may wonder, upon reading the above sentence, he is the Supreme Buddha in relation to what? So it would be good if it can be explained following this sentence what 'Supreme Buddha of our age' means (it can be explained, e.g., that the Supreme Buddha is the primary spiritual leader in the group of other Buddhas (enlightened ones) who may have existed in the past -- I'm not sure but you get my drift). Samson101 11:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the statement is true: according to Peter Harvey's Introduction to Buddhism, Soka Gakkai regard Nichiren as the Supreme Buddha. Peter jackson 11:16, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Why is there nothing here about the Buddha being born from his mother's armpit? Or being protected during a storm by a many headed snake god thing? Or when he beat the crap out of Allah and Muhammed? This page needs a section on the mythos around the Buddha's life.
Absolutely. FasterPussycatWooHoo 12:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Is the mention of Siddhartha's supposed son Rahula included in citation 6 at the end of the paragraph? I'm curious as to this particular mention and how oddly enough nothing more appears to be said about this "Rahula" at any later point in the article. Is there no further mention of the individual in the source texts? ~ SotiCoto 195.33.121.133 17:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Rahula at the age of 20 became a monk in the first sangha.-- 131.238.92.62 12:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
This article claims that he (The Buddha) set in motion the Wheel of Dharma while most, if not all, Buddhist texts claim that the 'wheel' already existed and was turning, albeit slowly. Maybe a better analogy would be that he (the Buddha) greased the Wheel of Dharma rather than set it in motion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Goodvibes ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
The link cited for the dates of his birth and death does not corroborate the dates in the article. Arrow740 17:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
What religion was Gautama born into / raised in, if any? This should be included in the section of the article about his early life, I think. Static Sleepstorm 17:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Gautama Buddha was recently added to List of atheists. I notice he's not in Category:Atheists, nor is he described as an atheist in this article. This was cited in support of the claim, but I'm ambivalent about the source and what it says--that is, I'm not sure (1) if the author's claims are consistent with scholarly consensus, and (2) if the author actually makes the case that Gautama Buddha was an atheist in this article. Any help, such as direction toward reliable sources, would be appreciated. Thankyou. Nick Graves 02:57, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
According to the Pali Canon, Indra and Brahmin asked the Buddha to spread his word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.68.217 ( talk) 00:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Gautam Buddha born in 1894BC and died in 1814BC. please refer below link for more information. [1] [2]
Buddhawaslike Yahoo Group with 45 researched posts about Gotama Buddha Dhammapal 05:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
"The Four Noble Truths: that suffering is an inherent part of existence;" - I believe it would be much more accurate to state, "There is suffering;", as many others do [3] [4] and, more simply, because the Buddha (reportedly) did not state that suffering was inherent to existence, [5]. Suffering is a conditioned phenomena, as is our existence, and as such neither have anything inherent about them. We only experience suffering while we are ignorant, in the same way I only experience the water while I'm in the swimming pool, and like water or a swimming pool are objects, suffering should be declared as such. If suffering was inherent then we could not escape it, and the rest of the Noble Truths would become untrue. Just a few lines later the concept of dependent origination is expounded, and also contradicts this earlier statement. I think this would be an important change as I have come across several people who have misinterpreted, or mistakenly believe, that the Buddha said that life was suffering. Since this is not true and also gives buddhism an ascetic slant that it (shouldn't) doesn't have, I propose the change. Iainspeed 00:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Since Nepal did not exist in its current state in those days, the term used to describe the land of the Buddha in those days is "ancient India" because that is the term used for the general subcontinental era of that time. Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 02:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Buddha was a Shakya prince of country once called Kapilavastu which later became part of Modern Nepal and the place now famously called as Lumbini. Neither Nepal nor its part Lumbini was ever ruled by any other indian or british rulers. Nepal has always been an independent country. Karms ( talk) 00:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
To above poster: but you do know that Nepal didnot exist until a few centuries ago right??? Also, during Buddha's time Kapilavstu was part of many of the kshatriya kingdoms of Aryavarta or as Ancient India was know to Indians(today's south-asians) in the north. The name NEPAL doesnot exist in Buddhist or ancient hindu etymology. Its strictly a much recent construct mainly to define the kingdom of Gurkhas. Besides the region of Kapilavastu is in Terai which is linguistically or culturally more a part of eastern UP than mountain valleys of upper Nepal. Just because the British and the Gurkhas agreed to a boundary that left Lumbini a few KMS inside Nepal doesn't take away the fact that Siddhartha was an Kshatiya prince from Kapilavstu(a kingdom spanning across the current India/Nepal border). Most of his life was spent around Rajgir, Sarnath, kusinagar and bodh gaya all in Eastern UP or Bihar today but were in Magadha etc. at the time. Doesn't make him a UPite or Bihari, and yes entire Terai; of which Lumbini is a part, has been a part of every major Indian empire up until the Mughals. Its only after the treaty with the british that it was firmly placed a few kms inside Nepal, even by that measure much of the kingdom of shakyas was to the south of capital Lumbini which would be modern India. Anyhow we are not talking about modern India or Nepal, so this discussion is meaningless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 ( talk) 03:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
To above poster: may be you want to read what i have written above about buddha's birthplace.... before you go amok with your arguments.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jazzmand ( talk • contribs) 16:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I think there's been a longstanding consensus on this page to describe the Buddha's place of origin as "ancient India". Let's keep it that way and unprotect.— Nat Krause( Talk!· What have I done?) 02:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Lumbini is very close to the Indo-nepalese border today, this area was part of Oudh and was given with the rest of Terai to Nepal in lieu of the conquered Himalayan territories(by Nepalese army) by the British. In any event Nepal didnot exist during the time of Buddha or until a few centuries years ago. The whole area was part of hindu kingdoms of Aryavarta. Much of his life was spent in present day Indian states of Uttar Pradesh or Bihar, even if Uttarpradesh or Bihar become separate kingdoms/countries centuries down the road buddha will still be know as an Ancient Indian prince. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
199.126.199.122 (
talk) 21:30, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I want to replace the copyrighted Image: Avatars.jpg with Image:AvatarsVishnu.jpg, which is a PD-art image. As the page is protected, I can't do so. I request the adminstrators to do so.-- Redtigerxyz 06:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
In Buddha as viewed by other religions section, Hinduism sub-section; Main article: Buddhism and Hinduism should be replaced by Buddha as an Avatar of Vishnu. As the former discusses the wider simlarities and differences in the religions, while the latter discusses Buddha from the Hindu angle.-- Redtigerxyz 06:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
It should be renamed, either to "The Buddha" or "Siddhartha Gautama." The current title is not as widely used as the other two, and in my experience is most commonly used where there is some ambiguity as to which Buddha is meant. Should we vote? Arrow740 22:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Gautama Buddha
The Buddha
Siddhartha Gautama
Some thoughts:
More thoughts:
So I vote for renaming this article either Buddha or the Buddha, with the other article renamed Buddhas. Peter jackson 11:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
On the point a few lines up about participants; WP isn't for participants; it's for readers.
on the Caesar analogy: Caesar without qualification is understood as referring to the particular gaius julius Caesar who was assassinated in 44BC. Peter jackson 11:16, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. Buddha may also refer to:
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Some more thoughts. Someone above referred to Mahayana. This may bemore important than I first thought. Buddha to many Buddhists may mean, not Gotama/Gautama, but his sambhogakaya (Nichiren, perhaps Tendai), Amitabha (Pure Land), Vairocana (Shingon) ... Maybe disambiguation? Or just amalgamate the articles? Peter jackson 11:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the suggestion to make a disambiguation page is very good, to avoid confusion about the Buddha and Buddhas etc... Also, Buddha is a much more appropraite name for an article about the buddha, and buddhahood is a much better name for an article about, really, buddhahood. I would suggest doing th voting again, these alternatives were not present. The voting should really be about the pair of articles together. Greetings, Sacca 08:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. Buddha may also refer to:
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What's so special about the Buddhas mentioned in the Pali Canon? There are thousands of others mentioned in Buddhist literature. Peter jackson 10:43, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I repeat, there's nothing special about the 28 Buddhas. Peter jackson 11:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
By the way, what do we think about the example of the article on the Dalai Lama? The vast majority of people, when looking for information on "the Dalai Lama" will be thinking specifically of the current one, and they will very likely be basically ignorant of the various other Dalai Lamas. They will also very likely not know the current Dalai Lama's personal name, Tenzin Gyatso. And yet, the article Dalai Lama is not an article about Tenzin Gyatso, or even a disambiguation page. It is about the Dalai Lamas in general. This strikes me as a similar case. Do we also conclude that Dalai Lama should be moved?— Nat Krause( Talk!· What have I done?) 04:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
While discussion (if any) at Talk:Buddha proceeds regarding its pending (I think?) name change, I thought it might be useful to continue the discussion here about a tentative dab page replacement for it. (The dab page is "tentative" because I want to allow anyone who might still feel strongly that this page, Gautama Buddha, should be moved to Buddha to feel comfortable voicing such a view.) Based on the aforementioned encyclopedia dictionary articles ( #Other on-line encyclopedia's "Buddha" entries) as well as my understandng of the above feedback from PeterJ and others, the current proposed dab I think is somethink like this:
Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. "Buddha" may also refer to:
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The first sentence's "Gautama Buddha" should be linked to whatever name this current article takes. The first bulleted sentence should be somehow linked to whatever article name the current Buddha article will be moved to (whether Buddhahood, Buddhas, Buddha (general), sammasambuddha, Buddha (Buddhism), etc.).
I'm in no way attached to any part of this proposed dab page and would very much welcome thoughtful feedback? Thanks so much, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 21:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. "Buddha" may also refer to:
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Buddha usually refers to Gautama Buddha, the founder of Buddhism. "Buddha" may also refer to:
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Am I the only one who's forgotten or overlooked that there is already a Buddha (disambiguation) page? Assuming we go ahead with replacing the current Buddha article with a dab page, should we just copy/move this existing Buddha (disambiguation) page to Buddha? Perhaps the above suggested dab could be incorporated into the existing Buddha (disambiguation) page? (Outside of references to Buddha statues in the above and to the three types of Buddha in the existing page, the major difference to the opening sentences appears to be one of emphasis, perhaps revealing the difference between Theravada and Mahayana perspectives? The existing page also, commendably, has significant material on non-spiritual and non-Buddhist references to "Buddha.") Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 21:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Just to follow-up, based on the vote at Talk:Buddha#Renaming_vote, the up-until-fifteen-minutes-ago Buddha page has been moved to Buddha (general). ( Buddhahood is also now a redirect to Buddha (general).) As perhaps many of you could have predicted, I regrettably need admin assistance to move the current Buddha (disambiguation) page to the Buddha space. So I've put in the formal request at WP:RM and have followed the procedure re: tagging Talk:Buddha (disambiguation) and starting yet another thread at Talk:Buddha_(disambiguation)#Requested_move. I'm hoping this latter move can take place relatively quickly. (Thanks for your all's patience!)
Thanks to the many of you who have been supportive of this process and shared your much-valued thoughts and opinions. I am grateful. Hopefully these initial moves might even last awhile (though maybe when I wake up tomorrow it will all be reverted....) My best to you all, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 09:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
P.S. In case anyone might be concerned, I plan to start reviewing the 2500 links to Buddha over the next few days to try to sort out which ones should now link where.
P.P.S. Oops. Turns out it appears that the majority of links -- as we previously surmised -- that go to Buddha should actually go to the current Gautama Buddha. Given the pending article moves (title changes), etc., I'm inclined to not diligently go through the aforementioned link list now but instead to make it an occasional background task over the next few months. Any objections? Thanks, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 05:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Sammasambuddha is suffering from a circular redirect. There is currently no way to find the article by typing in either Buddha or Sammasambuddha. Can someone who knows more fix this? thanks -- lk 05:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Can someone check the sources cited as not accepting the shorter chronology? I have a feeling the Schumann book is just a reprint of an old publication, so irrelevant here. Also, I did see an article by Wayman arguing for the long chronology, & it made no mention of the arguments of Bechert, Gombrich, Norman, Cousins &c for a shorter chronology, responding only to Japanese scholars. This would also be irrelevant. Peter jackson 11:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The article seems to make no attempt to distinguish the 2. Peter jackson 11:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
"Scholars are increasingly reluctant to make unqualified claims about the historical facts of the Buddha's life and teachings." (Lopez, Buddhism in Practice, p16)
At present the article seems to be a rather chaotic mixture of Theravada fundamentalism, legends & assorted theories. Peter jackson 12:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Is this typical of Wikipedia? There's an enormous amount of discussion above about the name of the article, but my comments about the content have attracted little response. Peter jackson 09:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
"(Sakyamuni Buddha's) physical characteristics are described in one of the central texts of the traditional Pali canon, the Digha Nikaya." -- This needed tweaking (and needs more), as (A) Digha Nikaya is better described as "a collection", rather than as "a text", and (B) we should therefore specify just where in Digha Nikaya said descriptions of Sakyamuni Buddha occur. -- Writtenonsand 14:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
It's likely the 32 marks were a visualization, as described in Chih-i's Mo-ho-chih-kuan. Peter jackson 12:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Apart from the 2 refs you give, I think the only other place in the Canon where they're listed is the Brahmayu sutta in the Majjhima, though they're mentioned elsewhere. The Penguin Handbook says something about the visualization, though I can't remember exactly what. Peter jackson 12:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Most of those refs will be to the stock description of a learned brahmin, eg in Ambattha sutta. Peter jackson 12:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Gautam Buddha was born in Nepal. I have come across several articles where it says he is from India. This totally misleading information. I watched the show Are you smarter than 5th grader where they also claimed that Buddha was from India. I truly believe that Nepal being a small country India is dominating it historical facts. I think this claim of Buddha being a part of India needs to be revised and the right information needs to be passed across every one. I am shocked that the pride of Nepal is being taken away by wrong information —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.49.233.30 ( talk) 15:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
That is why the term 'Ancient Indian' has been used here. Nepal at the time it was part of Aryavrata or Northern India. Even Buddha's own birth place and kingdom were both located along the present day indo-nepalese border, What is believed to be Lumbini is barely inside Nepal, much of the kingdom was to the south and east of Lumbini which falls in present day India also Kapilavastu region is on either side of the border. A good chunk of the kingdom was in Present day Uttar pradesh. Nepal didnot exist at the time. Besides Buddha attained enlightenment in India and wandered around Northern Indian regions of Rajagaha, Magadha etc. for most of his life and attained enlightenment in Bodh Gaya, Bihar(the birth place of Buddhism) and attained parinirvana in Kushinara which is again in present day India. Also, the region of Kosala(buddha's native place) was an ancient Indian Aryan kingdom, corresponding roughly in area with the region of Oudh in eastern UP and southern fringes of Nepal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.126.199.122 ( talk) 02:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Lumbini is very close to the Indo-nepalese border today, this area was part of Awadh and was given with the rest of terai to Nepal in exchange of the conquered Himalayan territories(by the kingdom of Nepal in Bengal and Uttaranchal) by the British. In any event Nepal didnot exist during the time of Buddha or until a few centuries years ago. The whole area was part of hindu kingdoms of Aryavarta. Much of his life was spent in present day Indian states of Uttar Pradesh or Bihar, that is where buddhism was born, even if Uttarpradesh or Bihar become separate kingdoms/countries centuries down the road buddha will still be know as an Ancient Indian prince. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.126.199.122 ( talk) 21:36, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
70.22.8.153 ( talk) 02:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC) (Siddhartha made the 4 noble truths), he had tried many ways to find the truth he finally found enlightenment by meditating also.[[Image: http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTb_0BvY5HtlsAxgejzbkF/SIG=11ku7ricm/EXP=1200623233/**http%3A//www.naljor.com/dharma.htm -- 70.22.8.153 ( talk) 02:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)marisa mckenzie 6 grade giving you advice.
This article really ought cover the views of historians on which bits of the story of the Buddha's life are historically accurate. (What other article could it belong in?) How should this be formatted?
The former would look rather odd. The latter wouldn't flow. Peter jackson ( talk) 11:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Large chunks of this article are reproduced from http://www.fundamentalbuddhism.com/who-was-buddha.html without attribution. Not being a regular editor here, I'll leave the question of rewrite vs citation open without comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.250.33.183 ( talk) 08:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
India even is a big country but try to steal the good ancient reputation of Nepal. India also destroys the tourism in Nepal. So we all Nepali think that Indians are greedy of Neplese fame. [Proud People from Lumbini,Nepal] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.70.64.41 ( talk) 12:47, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Knowing the fact that Gautam Buddha was born in Kapilvastu, Lumbini, which is now a part of NEpal, stop claiming that he was born in India. The whole wide world knows the fact and this the time India should accept it too.
People need to be educated on this matter.
Gautam Buddha was born in Kapilvastu, Lumbini, which is now a part of NEpal.
It is ridiculous that knowing the truth the Indians still claim that he was born in India.
People should be ashamed to claim some other country's asset as our own.
People need to be educated on this matter, especially when UNESCO (United Nations' Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) has claimed support the fact that Buddha was born in Nepal, and thus has listed Lumbini in their World Heritage Site.
Nepal is far smaller and less powerful than India but that does not mean that India should take advantage of this fact.
Use your conscience and ponder over it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pratikchh ( talk • contribs) 03:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering if tommorow Nepal was to break up lets say into Terai, Pokharaland or Gorkhaland, will then we all have to say Buddha was a Teraian prince???(and conform to your view that terai was never ruled by any indian empire lol) or worse if Nepalese gov and the maoists so beholden to Chinese communists and so dead set agianst India and Tibet were to form some sort of union with the Chinese, then would it be safe to say that Buddha was a Chinese prince born in the chinese part of the ancient Shakya kingdom??? ahhh you people accept that Lumbini is in modern Nepal and Nepal didnot exist until much recent times and the terai was part of ancient and medieval Indian kingdoms including that of the Shakyas, or as ancient texts say was part of many kingdoms of Aryavarta(Ancient India). Its funny how so many talk of the country/kingdom of Nepal as if it has existed politically since time immemorial, when it is one of the youngest in the world.
to above poster.... so if it is the case.. then lets delete all the word "India" in this page because 1. India is the name given by British people before it was called Bharat. 2. India came to an existance since 1947. Before that there were 100's of small countries where the last ones were in existance till late 1970's.....and no country called India was there anywhere before 1947...there are still separatist movement going on within India these days....anyway Lets follow your argument ""Mr. Deer"". According to your argument lets change the name ""Ancient India"" To ""Shakya Kingdom"" which currently is in mordern Nepal""... Also mentioned in the page Timeline of Buddhism ..Now what do you have to say?!!
Now what do you have to say?!!!!
Here's a nice photograph of the fasting Buddha ( Gandhara, circa 2nd century CE). Please feel free to include it in the article. PHG ( talk) 20:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
IN the Buddha Hinduism section, it says that Modern Hinduism didnt exist and I think thats a somewhat mis leading thing to put down. Yes things may have been different but when you put a sentence like that it makes a person who is not familar with Hinduism think "OK Hinduism wasnt that big back then, or maybe the person might think "Ok Hinduism didnt really exist back then"....HInduism is the oldest known religion (or one of the oldest) and to say modern Hinduism didnt exist isnt really neccassary to put is it? I mean it existed back then so I think that statemen should be taken out. 71.105.82.152 ( talk) 23:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Why are most of the pictures of broken statues? Are there any pictures of statues that aren't broken? Mitsube ( talk) 20:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
"Scholars are increasingly reluctant to make unqualified claims about the historical facts of the Buddha's life and teachings." [1] What are the qualified claims and what are the qualifications? Such a broad attack on Buddhist history should not be the last line of the intro especially since there's little about this in the body. There's already a mention that the monks elaborated on things. Mitsube ( talk) 23:56, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
it is a really sorry story that so many indians (particularly from North India) feel and strongly believe that Siddhartha Gautama, was born in India. To make matters very clear, I strongly all of you to visit a place called Lumbini, in south-western region of Nepal bordering India. Once you visit that place, all your doubts, even the tiniest iota, will be clear.
There is even a glorious pillar, the Ashok Pillar, built by the famous Indian Emperor Ashoka, that stands just besides the birthplace of Siddhartha.
I dont want to offend here. But people are clearly being disillusioned by certain issues pertaining to the birth of the Buddha. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riteshlamsal ( talk • contribs) 19:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
The Hinduism section is utter nonsense and isn't worth salvaging. If someone can come up with non-partisan, encyclopedic wording, go for it. JohnGlasheen ( talk) 01:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey,
I know Indians want something more all the time to say that they are proud of their country but leave Nepal and Buddha out please. Buddha was born in ancient HINDU COUNTRY NOT ANCIENT INDIA. First of all India was not formed till late. Also even if he was Hindu so what Nepal is a Hindu country. Does that mean Nepal is India? And stop calling us with shit names and calling us morons. We have given you out greatest of ancient warriors to assist in the battle against the British in the past like Bir Balbhadra Kunwar, who again you may claim was a Indain. If Indains and the whole of India actually wants to take the birth place of Buddha (Lumbini) then all it needs to do is send its forces and kill us Nepalis. If not accept the TRUTH.
Demogorgon
South asia comprises all the area of Buddha's life birth place lumbini in Nepal and the Bodh Gaya place where he was enlightened. To write Ancient India only serves the purpose of Indians trying to say that Buddha was born in India. They even have created a fake city inside India which is called Lumbini to confuse the rest of world about the birthplace of Buddha. To the people who are still confused about the birth place of Buddha then please refer to the page lumbini, there now we have everything cleared.
Thank you!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jazzmand ( talk • contribs) 11:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)