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On 25 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Taksim Gezi Park to Gezi Park. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Sorry, I watched casually the last changes on the article, and before an edit war happens :-), I would like to make a couple of statement:
Alex2006 ( talk) 10:57, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
List of several reliable sources:
In due course, the cemetery was razed and its land was used to build a number of parks, public and commercial buildings
Gravestones from an Armenian cemetery at Taksim demolished in 1939 were used to construct stairs at Gezi Park
the neighboring Armenian Pangaltı cemetery [was] demolished to build the park that stands there today
As this map shows, the cemetery once stood in the area occupied today by sections of Gezi Park, and surrounding properties, including the TRT Istanbul Radio building and major hotels like the Skidmore, Owings & Merrill-designed Istanbul Hilton (built in 1954). Marble headstones from the cemetery were used to build Gezi Park's fountains and stairs.
One of the last few green spots left in the center of Istanbul, Gezi Park was once part of the city’s Armenian cemetery. It was confiscated in the 1930s and made into a park.
After the genocide in 1915, when the Armenians were expelled, the owner clearly changed. Barracks were built there, then a park.
The campaign against Armenians involved confiscating their land, such as the cemetery; it was razed in the nineteen-thirties. Now part of Gezi Park, it is the site of hotels, apartment buildings, and a Turkish Radio and Television center. Gravestones remain on view, however: they were used to construct stairs.
I have left out the dozens of reliable Turkish sources and have only mentioned the English language ones.--
Markus2685 (
talk) 22:29, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your info, and no problem: as I wrote, I was just perplex about a direct correlation. Moreover, I totally ignored what happened to the Armenian notables. Spending much time in Yesilköy, where Turks are a minority :-) I thought that Armenians in Istanbul escaped the horrors of Anatolia. But would not be the case to write then this info in the Armenians in Istanbul article ? Generally speaking, I don't know if Turkish governments - both then and now - bothered in each case about laws or lack of title to justify what they wanted to do... :-) Alex2006 ( talk) 09:48, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
When the First World War began, there were two million Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire; by 1922, fewer than four hundred thousand remained—a slaughter of 1.5 million that historians call a genocide. (The word “genocide” was coined by Raphael Lemkin, a Jewish lawyer and Holocaust survivor, after his study of the Armenian massacres.) The campaign against Armenians involved confiscating their land, such as the cemetery; it was razed in the nineteen-thirties.
Proudbolsahye ( talk) 20:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
A WP:3O is not being issued as more than 2 editors are engaged in the discussion. – S. Rich ( talk) 01:01, 2 July 2013 (UTC) |
The Cemetery was actually located about 2 km north in Pangalti far away from the square or the park, very obvious from the map given in the supposed source "new yorker". Clear overlooking of the facts by the reporter for sensationalism. The park itself is located at the exact location where the artillery barracks used to be. This article is blood libel and slander against a nation.
I have added an opening sentence to the history section and made a few stylistic edits. I am glad that we are having a worthwhile, cooperative discussion here. The sentence: "After the Armenian Genocide the cemetery was demolished in 1930 and its marble tombstones were sold in 1939 or were used in the construction of the Park" has too many citations, so I am asking to kindly reduce them to one or two, most authoritative. Best, -- Murus ( talk) 13:00, 2 July 2013 (UTC).
The user Marcus has kidnapped the topic in order to implement his political armenian agenda. He thinks that collecting references which contradict themselves and even contradict what he is saying is a proof. I'd say, judge for yourself:
First, keep in mind where the armenian cementary (ermeni mezarligi) is, in that Map of 1922: [ [1]] [ [2]]
Then, check out this map [ [3]] this is the map Prost made in 1939, check out whats planned for the armenian cementary: Buildings! (blue squares). Look at upper left corner tofind the Inonu Park, the todays Gezi Park. The ride side of it is the former armenian cementary area... Not intended as a park!
Today, the place where the armenian cementary was, is full of buildings, you can see them right in the neighbouring north area of Gezi Park. [ [4]]
Not as park intended, no park built, nothing to do with the Park. -- Zoylab ( talk) 13:57, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Markus references are foul and false. He doesn't do any reference checks. If we discuss topics of urban planning, whom should we ask? Urban planning experts! He made the same show on German Wikipedia, with the result that his part got deleted. I am asking you to discuss with me, check my sources, search yourself, thats how we will find out the truth.
Source: [ [5]] Please read the source. Its essential to understand the history of Gezi Park and Prosts Plan! We learn: The Gezi Park was once Inönü Park, on place of the former the Taksim Artillery Barracks. No armenian cementary!
From: http://www.archdaily.com/388271/when-urban-planning-gets-political-the-history-of-taksim-square/ Their source: [1] Polvan, Sinan, and Yonet, Neslihan Aydin, ”Story of Taksim Square’s Transformation: “From Death’s stillness to life’s Hubbub”
Source: Istanbul, an urban history: Byzantion, Constaninopolis, Istanbul, Dogan Kurban, p. 505
Can Markus post maps to support his claim? No! Anybody else? No!
Can I show you maps? Yea! Check out my previous discussion point. Which reference do the maps of Istanbul support? The claim that there the Gezi Park is not on the 1930 raised cementary. The Gezi Park is on the Taksim Bahcesi and the Artillary Barracks. All urban planning sources say it. So where is armenian cementary? On the opposite area of Gezi Park! The area when you cross the street Asker Ocagi caddesi.
Who says it? - the armenian sources themselves, check out the picture with the building encircled by a drawn line. Thats the cementary today! [ [6]] - Prost Plan No. 2 -- Zoylab ( talk) 13:06, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
- Edit: Check out this for orientation: [ [7]] -- Zoylab ( talk) 16:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:22, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. – robertsky ( talk) 11:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Taksim Gezi Park → Gezi Park – "Gezi Park" alone is a lot more common than "Taksim Gezi Park", which prepends the neighborhood it is located next to, unnecessarily lengthening the title. Also compare [9] and [10]. Aintabli ( talk) 18:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 ( talk) 00:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
On 25 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Taksim Gezi Park to Gezi Park. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Sorry, I watched casually the last changes on the article, and before an edit war happens :-), I would like to make a couple of statement:
Alex2006 ( talk) 10:57, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
List of several reliable sources:
In due course, the cemetery was razed and its land was used to build a number of parks, public and commercial buildings
Gravestones from an Armenian cemetery at Taksim demolished in 1939 were used to construct stairs at Gezi Park
the neighboring Armenian Pangaltı cemetery [was] demolished to build the park that stands there today
As this map shows, the cemetery once stood in the area occupied today by sections of Gezi Park, and surrounding properties, including the TRT Istanbul Radio building and major hotels like the Skidmore, Owings & Merrill-designed Istanbul Hilton (built in 1954). Marble headstones from the cemetery were used to build Gezi Park's fountains and stairs.
One of the last few green spots left in the center of Istanbul, Gezi Park was once part of the city’s Armenian cemetery. It was confiscated in the 1930s and made into a park.
After the genocide in 1915, when the Armenians were expelled, the owner clearly changed. Barracks were built there, then a park.
The campaign against Armenians involved confiscating their land, such as the cemetery; it was razed in the nineteen-thirties. Now part of Gezi Park, it is the site of hotels, apartment buildings, and a Turkish Radio and Television center. Gravestones remain on view, however: they were used to construct stairs.
I have left out the dozens of reliable Turkish sources and have only mentioned the English language ones.--
Markus2685 (
talk) 22:29, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your info, and no problem: as I wrote, I was just perplex about a direct correlation. Moreover, I totally ignored what happened to the Armenian notables. Spending much time in Yesilköy, where Turks are a minority :-) I thought that Armenians in Istanbul escaped the horrors of Anatolia. But would not be the case to write then this info in the Armenians in Istanbul article ? Generally speaking, I don't know if Turkish governments - both then and now - bothered in each case about laws or lack of title to justify what they wanted to do... :-) Alex2006 ( talk) 09:48, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
When the First World War began, there were two million Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire; by 1922, fewer than four hundred thousand remained—a slaughter of 1.5 million that historians call a genocide. (The word “genocide” was coined by Raphael Lemkin, a Jewish lawyer and Holocaust survivor, after his study of the Armenian massacres.) The campaign against Armenians involved confiscating their land, such as the cemetery; it was razed in the nineteen-thirties.
Proudbolsahye ( talk) 20:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
A WP:3O is not being issued as more than 2 editors are engaged in the discussion. – S. Rich ( talk) 01:01, 2 July 2013 (UTC) |
The Cemetery was actually located about 2 km north in Pangalti far away from the square or the park, very obvious from the map given in the supposed source "new yorker". Clear overlooking of the facts by the reporter for sensationalism. The park itself is located at the exact location where the artillery barracks used to be. This article is blood libel and slander against a nation.
I have added an opening sentence to the history section and made a few stylistic edits. I am glad that we are having a worthwhile, cooperative discussion here. The sentence: "After the Armenian Genocide the cemetery was demolished in 1930 and its marble tombstones were sold in 1939 or were used in the construction of the Park" has too many citations, so I am asking to kindly reduce them to one or two, most authoritative. Best, -- Murus ( talk) 13:00, 2 July 2013 (UTC).
The user Marcus has kidnapped the topic in order to implement his political armenian agenda. He thinks that collecting references which contradict themselves and even contradict what he is saying is a proof. I'd say, judge for yourself:
First, keep in mind where the armenian cementary (ermeni mezarligi) is, in that Map of 1922: [ [1]] [ [2]]
Then, check out this map [ [3]] this is the map Prost made in 1939, check out whats planned for the armenian cementary: Buildings! (blue squares). Look at upper left corner tofind the Inonu Park, the todays Gezi Park. The ride side of it is the former armenian cementary area... Not intended as a park!
Today, the place where the armenian cementary was, is full of buildings, you can see them right in the neighbouring north area of Gezi Park. [ [4]]
Not as park intended, no park built, nothing to do with the Park. -- Zoylab ( talk) 13:57, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Markus references are foul and false. He doesn't do any reference checks. If we discuss topics of urban planning, whom should we ask? Urban planning experts! He made the same show on German Wikipedia, with the result that his part got deleted. I am asking you to discuss with me, check my sources, search yourself, thats how we will find out the truth.
Source: [ [5]] Please read the source. Its essential to understand the history of Gezi Park and Prosts Plan! We learn: The Gezi Park was once Inönü Park, on place of the former the Taksim Artillery Barracks. No armenian cementary!
From: http://www.archdaily.com/388271/when-urban-planning-gets-political-the-history-of-taksim-square/ Their source: [1] Polvan, Sinan, and Yonet, Neslihan Aydin, ”Story of Taksim Square’s Transformation: “From Death’s stillness to life’s Hubbub”
Source: Istanbul, an urban history: Byzantion, Constaninopolis, Istanbul, Dogan Kurban, p. 505
Can Markus post maps to support his claim? No! Anybody else? No!
Can I show you maps? Yea! Check out my previous discussion point. Which reference do the maps of Istanbul support? The claim that there the Gezi Park is not on the 1930 raised cementary. The Gezi Park is on the Taksim Bahcesi and the Artillary Barracks. All urban planning sources say it. So where is armenian cementary? On the opposite area of Gezi Park! The area when you cross the street Asker Ocagi caddesi.
Who says it? - the armenian sources themselves, check out the picture with the building encircled by a drawn line. Thats the cementary today! [ [6]] - Prost Plan No. 2 -- Zoylab ( talk) 13:06, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
- Edit: Check out this for orientation: [ [7]] -- Zoylab ( talk) 16:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:22, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. – robertsky ( talk) 11:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Taksim Gezi Park → Gezi Park – "Gezi Park" alone is a lot more common than "Taksim Gezi Park", which prepends the neighborhood it is located next to, unnecessarily lengthening the title. Also compare [9] and [10]. Aintabli ( talk) 18:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 ( talk) 00:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)