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It is requested that a map or maps, showing the three maps of Kurdistan prepared in the 1940s, with their various definitions of Syrian Kurdistan (i.e., the section of Kurdistan inside the existing borders of Syria, preferably, an .svg image showing the various border lines and the locations of the major modern towns ( Ras al-Ayn, Qamishli, Kobane, al-Hasaka, Jarabulus, and Afrin), and ideally including the rivers and their tributaries, as can be seen in this map of the Euphrates and the map of the Tigris. The three maps can be at low resolution in the existing map (Top: map presented at the United Nations Conference on International Organization in 1945; Centre: map from the Rizgari Party's memorandum to the United Nations in 1946; Bottom: map drawn in Cairo in 1947) which was adapted from O'Shea, Maria T. (2004). Trapped Between the Map and Reality: Geography and Perceptions of Kurdistan. New York and London: Routledge. pp. 151, 154. ISBN  978-0-415-94766-4., be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Syria may be able to help!

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I looked for book-length scholarship by academic publishers from the last five years or so, and this is what I came up with:

About Syrian Kurdistan in particular

1. Matthieu Cimino (2020), Syria: Borders, Boundaries, and the State, Springer. [1]
2. Harriet Allsopp & Wladimir van Wilgenburg (2019), The Kurds of Northern Syria: Governance, Diversity and Conflicts, Bloomsbury. [2]
3. Hilly Moodrick-Even Khen, Nir T. Boms & Sareta Ashraph, eds. (2019), The Syrian War: Between Justice and Political Reality, Cambridge. [3]
4. Brendan O'Leary (2018), The Kurds, the Four Wolves, and the Great Powers, The Journal of Politics. [4] PDF — not a book, but a book review of:
   1. Harriet Allsopp (2016), The Kurds of Syria: Political Parties and Identity in the Middle East, Bloomsbury. [5]
   2. Michael Gunter (2014), Out of Nowhere: The Kurds of Syria in Peace and War, Hurst. [6]
   3. Michael Gunter (2017), The Kurds: A Modern History, Markus Wiener Publishers. [7] (O'Leary reviewed the 2016 ed.)

   (And four other books about Kurds in Turkey, Iraq, and Iran.)

5. Samer N. Abboud (2015), Syria, Wiley. [8]

   About Kurdistan in general (including Syrian Kurdistan)

6. Güneş Murat Tezcür, ed. (2020), A Century of Kurdish Politics: Citizenship, Statehood and Diplomacy, T&F. [9]
7. Zeynep N. Kaya (2020), Mapping Kurdistan: Territory, Self-Determination and Nationalism, Cambridge. [10]
8. David Romano, Mehmet Gurses, and Michael Gunter (2020), The Kurds in the Middle East: Enduring Problems and New Dynamics, Lexington Books. [11]
9. Sebastian Maisel (2018), The Kurds: An Encyclopedia of Life, Culture, and Society, ABC-Clio. [12]
10. Michael Gunter (2018), Routledge Handbook on the Kurds, T&F. [13]
11. Gareth Stansfield, Mohammed Shareef (eds.) (2017), The Kurdish Question Revisited, Oxford. [14]
12. David L. Phillips (2015), The Kurdish Spring: A New Map of the Middle East, Transaction Publishers. [15]
13. Mehrdad Izady (2015, orig. 1992), Kurds: A Concise Handbook, T&F. [16]
14. David McDowall (April 2021, 2004, orig 1996), A Modern History of the Kurds, Bloomsbury. [17]

Anything missing from this list? Anything that should be removed from the list? Some but not all of these are already in the article (or in related articles). Levivich  ^harass/ _hound 06:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC) reply

I agree with this sources. Merdad Izady has strong opponents, and even the climate info from him is seen as unreliable and is blamed to come from a nationalist. I don't share this view, but it will be difficult to source anything with him.

Others I would also recommend are:

1. Jordi Tejell: Syria's Kurds: History, Politics and Society

1. Jordi Tejel: Le mouvement kurde de Turquie en exil: continuités et discontinuités du nationalisme kurde sous le mandat français en Syrie et au Liban (1925-1946)

1. Roger Lescot is also good. His books you can read online here Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 18:23, 7 December 2020 (UTC) reply

Also add Robert Lowe "The Emergence of Western Kurdistan and the Future of Syria" in D. Romano et al. (eds.), Conflict, Democratization, and the Kurds in the Middle East (2014). As for Izady ( aside from the academic criticism), it is not as simple as climate. -- Attar-Aram syria ( talk) 08:24, 8 December 2020 (UTC) reply

Somehow I forgot to put Cimino 2020 on my list, so I added it. Also, I added O'Leary even though it isn't a book, because it's a book review by a reputable scholar in a reputable journal. (Are there any other recent book reviews like it?) Re: the above, Tejel, Lescot, and Lowe I think are all reputable scholars as well and their works are usable. However, given the changes "on the ground", I think we should really lean on very recent scholarship: 2019-2020 preferably, post-2016 second choice, post-2011 third choice, and only use pre-war as necessary to fill in gaps. So I think, for example, for Tejel's views about Syrian Kurdistan, it's better to rely more on Tejel 2020 (in Cimino 2020) than Tejel 2009, although Tejel 2009 could be used to fill in gaps of material not covered by more recent sources. For this reason, even O'Leary's book review I think should be considered "second choice", because it was written in 2018 and reviews books written in 2016 or earlier. We want to tell our readers what Syrian Kurdistan is today, according to scholars. Levivich  ^harass/ _hound 07:27, 9 December 2020 (UTC) reply

I don't know how to vote here, but if the sources here presented are included in the article I agree. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 11:15, 10 December 2020 (UTC) reply

A while back an IP did this edit: [18]

It is impossible that a new user can do an advanced edit like this, it is clearly an old returning user. There are several users that are topic banned, so this is likely ban evasion, because of this I'm going to revert it. If the user wants to restore it they should log into their account. Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 12:43, 16 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Hi Applodion, instead of removing all my edits here, can you point to where the discrepancy is. The blockquote is copied word for word from the source. I don't understand which part of my edit is different from the source. I actually just found another academic source ^[1]saying the term is invented by Kurdish parties: In the conclusion, the book offers insight on how to deal with the “Kurdish issue”. First, it stresses that the Syrian “Kurdish issue” can only be resolved within the framework of a purely Syrian national solution, outside the inventions of “West Kurdistan”, and in a way that sets Syrian Kurds within the context of belonging to Syrian society and its institutionalized state form as the Syrian Arab Republic. An explanation is warranted. New Aramean ( talk) 13:50, 28 June 2023 (UTC) reply

I don't know what I'm supposed to tell you here. I read the same quotes / texts, and these just did not match your interpretation.
First of all, your claim "it should be highlighted that the term western Kurdistan has been applied by Kurdish activists to refer to Turkish Kurdistan" is not stated anywhere. A People without a Country page only lists "Turkish, Northern or Western Kurdistan" after one another; it does not imply that these are the same. If I list three random countries, this wouldn't mean I'm trying to claim that they are the same state.
Jordi Tejel also does not say that "Rojava is an adoption by Syrian Kurdish nationalist parties". Jordi Tejel states that some Kurdish parties adopted the name 'Rojava'. The former statement suggests that the parties invented the term, the latter statement suggests that the parties began using an already existing term.
And as for your most recent quote, what exactly are you even trying to say? Some researcher denounces the idea of Rojava... wow, it's not like that this is a widely held opinion anyway. What makes this opinion any more special than the dozens of other opponents to the concept?
Applodion ( talk) 16:31, 28 June 2023 (UTC) reply

For the Cheriff statement: Kurdistan in Iraq is often referred to as Southern Kurdistan but in fact it occupies a more or less central position in the Kurdish territories. It is the link between what is variously known as Turkish, Northern or Western Kurdistan to the north and north-west, and so-called Eastern or Iranian Kurdistan to the east and south-east, and it also borders on the mainly Kurdish areas of the Syrian Jezireh. , it is plain English when you use comma followed by or, that these are the same terms. You are welcome to invite a native English speaker to help here. Second, it is clear from the statement that western Kurdistan does not apply to Syria, since he refers to that specifically: "the mainly Kurdish areas of the Syrian Jezireh" in the same sentence. For the last reference, whether this is a minority opinion or not, it still deserves to be mentioned, this is what WP is about, the two sides of a story, not just what suits your POV. I am open to other ideas about including this sentences. I look forward to hearing from you. Otherwise, I will have to revert. Thank you. New Aramean ( talk) 09:18, 29 June 2023 (UTC) reply

And for the Jordi Tejel sentence, I am OK with saying "some Kurdish parties adopted the name 'Rojava' or Syrian Kurdistan". New Aramean ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 09:20, 29 June 2023 (UTC) reply

Re. the first issue: What shall I say, you have clearly a different view of the language than me. Your interpretation, also makes no logical sense. If Cheriff & co. were indeed trying to suggest that "Western Kurdistan" is equal to the Turkish areas, whereas the Syrian areas are solely covered under "the mainly Kurdish areas of the Syrian Jezireh" (which is also gigantic and ill-defined), it would ignore Kobani and Afrin. In fact, later in the book, the authors discuss the concept of "Syrian Kurdistan" (!) in some detail, for example expressing the view that the regions assigned to "Syrian Kurdistan" are politically clearly Syrian yet ethnographically distinct. Ultimately, they prefer the term "Kurdish regions of Syria", but their description confirms that by 1993 the existence of a "Syrian Kurdistan" at "Kurd-Dagh, Ain-Arab, and Northern Jezireh" was at least the topic of discussion. Thus, if the authors were aware of the proposal of "Syrian Kurdistan", why should they claim that "Western Kurdistan" is in Turkey in the same book?
As for the "not just what suits your POV", I'm not pushing a POV here. It's also not an issue of minority vs. majority views. My problem has to do with the fact that the particular part of Hamza Mustapha's review you are quoting here is completely irrelevant to the article. That was what I was trying to convey above. First of all, the review talks about a book which does not appear to be available online, so we cannot assess whether the reviewer's interpretations are correct. Secondly, what does the claim "the Syrian 'Kurdish issue' can only be resolved within the framework of a purely Syrian national solution" actually contribute to this article? It's perfectly fine for researchers to express their private opinion on stuff, but they aren't seers who can look into the future. We cannot state in Wikivoice that the Syrian 'Kurdish issue' can only be resolved within the framework of a purely Syrian national solution, as we do not know the future. For all we know, the idea of "Western Kurdistan" could be dead in one year, having failed to contribute anything to anyone, or be alive and well in one hundred years, having solved the so-called "Syrian Kurdish issue". We just don't know, and neither do the authors of The Issue of the Kurds in Syria: Facts, History and Myth. And if we decided to add a section to discuss researchers' views on the pros and cons of "Syrian Kurdistan", it would be flooded with nationalistic and ideologically charged analyses coming from all corners of the political spectrum. Applodion ( talk) 23:31, 29 June 2023 (UTC) reply

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Some of your interpretation above is OR, when the sentence I used above "Turkish, Northern or Western Kurdistan to the north and north-west, and so-called Eastern or Iranian Kurdistan to the east and south-east, and it also borders on the mainly Kurdish areas of the Syrian Jezireh" is clear ad does not need an expert to interpret. Now, having included Afrin and Kobane is a different thing, maybe since they are much smalled in area and population than Jazira. My point is simply that this article adopts the more extreme PKK name (Syrian Kurdistan, rojava, etc.) for an area in Syria that is split between three major constituents, with no numbers for the ethnic composition. The lede puts that in wikivoice as a fact, which is not true, not encyclopedic and unfair to the other constituents of the area, especially Assyrians, who consider this part of their ancient homeland. Again, I am open to including a sentence that can convey that. How does that sound? New Aramean ( talk) 09:18, 30 June 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Applodion Maybe you remember the discussion around Hamza Mustapha you had in the past with a certain Amr in November 2020? Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 10:43, 30 June 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Applodion Here is another quote from a story written in 2016 by Robert Lowe (Deputy Director of the Middle East Centre) on the names for the area Previously, only the term ‘Rojava’ had been used, which itself is of very recent origin but has quickly become recognised on the map of Syria. I think this sentence (and story) can shed light on the name(s). Thank you. New Aramean ( talk) 20:13, 2 July 2023 (UTC) reply

Hi @ Applodion:, do you think adding a version showing only Syrian Kurdistan from the file would be useful to make it well readable? The section talks about demography and it mentions the Kurdish tribes in northern Syria so I think the files are useful. Sulaimanl ( talk) 22:56, 13 August 2023 (UTC) reply

Editors are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kurds#RFC: Iranian ethnic group. Levivich ( talk) 00:06, 15 November 2023 (UTC) reply