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Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien ( talk · contribs) 16:58, 1 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I'll have a review posted for this within the next day or two. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 16:58, 1 October 2023 (UTC) reply

PancakeMistake, the review is posted. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 00:52, 2 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Sorry for the late response, I've been out of town. Will start looking into this shortly! Pancake ( talk) 09:26, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

No worries, real life always takes priority. I left some notes below that I invite you to consider, but none of them require specific action, so I feel comfortable designating this as a good article. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 14:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Well-written

Lead:

• "A Camp transformed from being the solo project of the Cardigans vocalist Nina Persson to expanding into a three-member band" – This sentence could be simplified. It doesn't need to transform and expand

Done. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Background and production:

• "while Colonia takes on more of a "city" character" – This looks like the article is using scarequotes. This should either be replaced with a fuller quote for context or reworded.
• "She described the album to The Local" & "Persson elaborated to Clash" – Is it relevant who she was talking to?
• "Namibian deserts" – Why is this listed among historical imagery?
• "Persson, who was 33 years old at the time" – Information should not be provided through WP:EASTEREGG links. If it's relevant, say it explicitly and cite it to a source.

Done. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Composition and lyrics:

• "Musically, "Stronger Than Jesus" is a three-minute and four-second pop song" – "Musically" can be cut here without changing the meaning. You might also consider combining this sentence with the next one since they both discuss the genre.
• "As noted by Jennifer Heape" – This is Heape's interpretation, so it shouldn't say "noted", as that presents it as fact. There are also two uses of "critics noted" in this section.
• "Comparably, PopMatters critic Thomas Britt wrote" – Does this need the word "comparably"?
• "The lyrics of "Stronger Than Uses" use historical" – I think I see what happened here.

Oops! Done! Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Release:

• "Persson revealed that "Stronger Than Jesus" was selected" – This isn't really a "reveal" so much as a truism. It should be obvious to readers that the first single is the one they felt should introduce people to the album.
• "by the band as the "living room" version" – Another that looks like scare quotes.

Done. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Reception: No copyediting notes.

Music video:

• "Persson revealed to The Local" & "She described the video to Sydsvenskan" – Another point where I'm not sure if "reveal" is the right word and where it's not important who was interviewing her.

Done. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Live performances:

• "As part of the promotion for the single" – This can be cut.

Done. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Verifiable with no original research

• Avoid using AllMusic outside of the reviews. The reviews are fine because they're written by actual critics, but AllMusic is otherwise a questionable source. All other sources appear to be reliable. With that said, it's usually not ideal to use store pages such as iTunes as sources.

AllMusic is only used outside of the review context to source the song's length. iTunes is used to source the track listing and credited labels of the actual releae. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I'll accept it, but with the understanding that using store pages as sources can be a controversial practice. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 14:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Spot checks:

• [9] Heape – Is this used to support anything about the living room version?

That their home is in Harlem, NYC. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

• [14] Nunn – The body correctly attributes the phrase "sing-along" to Persson, but the caption to the sound file describes it like this in wikivoice.
• [21] Gill – Y
• [24] Britt – This source technically doesn't name Bachelor No. 2, and the album's name isn't really necessary for this info anyway.

Revised. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

• [57] A Camp on YouTube – Y Acceptable use of a primary source.
• [59] Stosuy – The source says she's dressed in white, not that she's wearing a white dress. I also don't see where it mentions a dark room.

Plots don't need sources per WP:PLOTCITE. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Fair enough, though for the sake of WP:text-source integrity, I personally would put a citation to the music video there so we know that this specific part is cited to the video itself. It's not like a citation-less plot where we can assume that all of it is cited to the video. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 14:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Spot checks look good, with just a few minor things to look at.

Broad in its coverage

All major aspects are covered. Some excessive detail:

• There's a lot of information in the first paragraph of "background and production" about Persson's previous work that isn't directly relevant to "Stronger Than Jesus". All the reader needs to know is who she is and that this is her second A Camp album.

I think it's necessary to note how A Camp was a solo project prior to the release of this song and how this song came to be. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

• This section also has a lot of information about the album Colonia, but this article isn't about the album. Most of this information should be at Colonia (A Camp album) with only the bare minimum here for context. If a source is about the album instead of the song, it should be used sparingly in this article.

What information do you suggest to cut? The inspiration behind Colonia goes hand in hand with the theme of this song in my opinion. The band's interest in history provides context to the song's subject matter. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I'm mainly looking at the first paragraph of the section. I'll leave it to you to decide, but I'd prefer to avoid redundancy with the album's article and the band's article when possible. The only details from this paragraph that really need to be in this article are that Cardigans vocalist Persson released one album under her solo project A Camp and then revisited the project with her husband to do a second album. Discussing the themes is also unavoidable, but it probably doesn't need to go into as much detail as the album does. Ideally, it would only include the details that sources specifically identify as relevant to this song, although that's not always possible if the right sources can't be found. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 14:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Neutral

• Did reviewers comment on the subject matter of the song? August Brown is mentioned as touching on it, but none of the critical reception seems to take it into consideration when evaluating the song. I want to be sure that most reviewers had nothing to say about this.

Not that I've been able to find, other than takes like "twisted metaphors" and "awkwardness of ambition" which are already present. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

• The "reception" section is split into a pro-con format, which should generally be avoided. Is it possible to sort the first two paragraphs by how similar the subject matter is instead of whether they're positive/negative?

I would argue that the two paragraphs, while split into positive/negative, are also sorted by theme. All the critical reviews touch on the same subjects, as do the positive reviews. Pancake ( talk) 10:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

All right, it's not as big of an issue if the points are basically the same throughout. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 14:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Stable

No content disputes. No reason to believe that the information in the article will significantly change.

Illustrated

All images are properly licensed. AGF that the original uploader of the Nina Persson image accurately represented the CC status given by Flicker, as the source is now a dead link.