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Comments:
"He had been an avaricious man and a great pluralist, holding the bishopric of Winchester after he became archbishop of Canterbury, in addition to several abbeys." (Final years and legacy) This is a very POV sentence and requires a citation to support it.
To allow for these changes to be made, I am putting the article on hold for a period of up to seven days, after which it may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work thus far. Cheers, CP 21:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Well done, everybody! -- SECisek 19:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Stigand is mentioned in the mouse's tale in "Alice in Wonderland"... AnonMoos ( talk) 12:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
As requested, here is my second look at the article based on my earlier peer review and changes made to it since.
Hope this helps, let me know if you want me to look at it again when the copyedits and lead expansion are done. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 17:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks muchly. I know my writing is only "good" and not up to FA standards, which i why I pester Karanacs or Mike Christie or Brian or Malleus for copyedits! I just like to get the obvious stuff out of the way before i pester them. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Robert of Jumieges- was he outlawed or did he just vacate the premises before Godwin got ahold of him? Ning ning ( talk) 20:32, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
I like this article a lot - good work! Two comments:
Karanacs ( talk) 16:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Question -
Trivial question-
Non-trivial question-
The link in note 4 to Margaret of England should be to Saint Margaret of Scotland, but I cannot find how to correct it. Dudleymiles ( talk) 13:25, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
It is still wrong! The correct person is St Margaret of Scotland, not England. Dudleymiles ( talk) 16:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
here Ealdgyth - Talk 01:43, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Says "The archbishop's (Robert of Jumieges) place was immmediately filled by Stigand, bishop of Winchester, a close associate of Earl Godwine. This arbitrary supersession of a lawfully constitued archbishop ignored canonical principles with high churchmen abroad regarded as fundamental, and it was never forgiven by the reforming party in the Roman curia. Archbishop Robert at once appealed to Pole Leo IX, by whom Stigand was summoned to Rome, condemned in absence, and exommunicated. The process was repeated by Leo's successors Victor II and Stephen IX. Shortly after the death of Stephen IX, Stigand obtained the pallium from Benedict X, who held the papacy uneasily from April 1058 until Januar 1059. But the recognition by Benedict, whose own position was regarded as uncanonical by all strict churchmen, brought no permanent advantage to Stigand. He was excommunicated again by Nicholas II, with whose election the reforming party returned to power at Rome, and by Alexander II, whose support of William of Normandy in 1066 was partly determined by the hope of securing Stigand's deposition." Blair and Blair in Introduction to Anglo-Saxon England p. 108 say "The vacant archbishopric was given to Stigand, but save for one short period his tenure of it was not recognized either by Rome or by he leading English churchmen." Barlow English Church 1000-1066 states of Stigand "His position was therefore irregular." Ealdgyth - Talk 13:24, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Douglas is over 50 years old. The biographies by Rex and Walker of Harold are quite clear that there is some ambiguity whether Stigand is actually crowning Harold or if he is just there. He's standing beside the king - who is already crowned. It is also way too much detail for this article - we cover the fact that the tapestry shows him there - we do not need to detail every placement of the people. We're an encyclopedia, not a scholarly monograph discussing this issue. It's just common courtesy to actually conform the citations to the style in use in the article - which you've edit warred back in. You've also mangled the whole section - you've got "The scene depicted is immediately after the coronation and shows Stigand (whose name is prominently embroidered STIGANT) standing at the left-hand of King Harold, seated on a throne, wearing a crown and holding royal regalia. Thus Stigand is not depicted actually in the act of placing the crown on Harold's head." sourced to Rex Harold p. 151 - who says nothing at all close to what you've got him saying about the Tapestry. You've also ... ignored the whole BRD concept - you were bold and added, I reverted it and instead of discussing - you've edit warred inaccuracies back in. Douglas' Historical Documents isn't the best source both because of its age and because of what it is - it's discussing the various primary sources. Douglas' later work on William the Conqueror is not nearly so emphatic on Stigand being the actual officiant - he merely states the Tapestry depicts Stigand performing some act in connection with Harold's accension - not as the actual officiant. (And Douglas specifically refers to his earlier work as part of his source for this - so he's obviously changed his mind somewhat.). Grape's work on the Tapestry discusses this scene and never quite comes down on the side that it depicts Stigand actually presiding at the coronation - he makes it clear that it is meant to show Stigand involved with the coronation, but that it cannot be said to depict the actual coronation. If we include all this detail on the Tapestry - we have to balance it by more detail about the opposing side's arguements - and then we're way into undue territory. Way too much weight and detail assigned to something that was covered before this edit - we summarize as an encyclopedia. It's worth noting that Rumble's recent article on Stigand mentions this scene in the Tapestry just in a footnote - and doesn't claim that Stigand was the officiant at the coronation. His words are ""Archibishop Stigand is dpicted on the Bayeux Tapestry, standing with arms outstretched in acclamation, in front and on the left of the enthroned King Harold." (This is from 2012). Musset's work on the Tapestry discusses this scene and concludes that Stigand's "presence in this scene suggest that he is performing some king of liturgical function: although it does not seem to be an actual coronation, it is certainly not far removed from one" and then goes on to state that he feels it's probably one of the ceremonial crown-wearings that William later was famous for. So - no, Douglas' EHD is no longer the last word - and all this discussion of what the scene means would be better placed at the article on the Tapestry - not here, where we briefly touch on it and then continue on with discussing Stigand's biography. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:02, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
Stigand is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 27, 2008. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Comments:
"He had been an avaricious man and a great pluralist, holding the bishopric of Winchester after he became archbishop of Canterbury, in addition to several abbeys." (Final years and legacy) This is a very POV sentence and requires a citation to support it.
To allow for these changes to be made, I am putting the article on hold for a period of up to seven days, after which it may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work thus far. Cheers, CP 21:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Well done, everybody! -- SECisek 19:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Stigand is mentioned in the mouse's tale in "Alice in Wonderland"... AnonMoos ( talk) 12:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
As requested, here is my second look at the article based on my earlier peer review and changes made to it since.
Hope this helps, let me know if you want me to look at it again when the copyedits and lead expansion are done. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 17:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks muchly. I know my writing is only "good" and not up to FA standards, which i why I pester Karanacs or Mike Christie or Brian or Malleus for copyedits! I just like to get the obvious stuff out of the way before i pester them. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Robert of Jumieges- was he outlawed or did he just vacate the premises before Godwin got ahold of him? Ning ning ( talk) 20:32, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
I like this article a lot - good work! Two comments:
Karanacs ( talk) 16:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Question -
Trivial question-
Non-trivial question-
The link in note 4 to Margaret of England should be to Saint Margaret of Scotland, but I cannot find how to correct it. Dudleymiles ( talk) 13:25, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
It is still wrong! The correct person is St Margaret of Scotland, not England. Dudleymiles ( talk) 16:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
here Ealdgyth - Talk 01:43, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Says "The archbishop's (Robert of Jumieges) place was immmediately filled by Stigand, bishop of Winchester, a close associate of Earl Godwine. This arbitrary supersession of a lawfully constitued archbishop ignored canonical principles with high churchmen abroad regarded as fundamental, and it was never forgiven by the reforming party in the Roman curia. Archbishop Robert at once appealed to Pole Leo IX, by whom Stigand was summoned to Rome, condemned in absence, and exommunicated. The process was repeated by Leo's successors Victor II and Stephen IX. Shortly after the death of Stephen IX, Stigand obtained the pallium from Benedict X, who held the papacy uneasily from April 1058 until Januar 1059. But the recognition by Benedict, whose own position was regarded as uncanonical by all strict churchmen, brought no permanent advantage to Stigand. He was excommunicated again by Nicholas II, with whose election the reforming party returned to power at Rome, and by Alexander II, whose support of William of Normandy in 1066 was partly determined by the hope of securing Stigand's deposition." Blair and Blair in Introduction to Anglo-Saxon England p. 108 say "The vacant archbishopric was given to Stigand, but save for one short period his tenure of it was not recognized either by Rome or by he leading English churchmen." Barlow English Church 1000-1066 states of Stigand "His position was therefore irregular." Ealdgyth - Talk 13:24, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Douglas is over 50 years old. The biographies by Rex and Walker of Harold are quite clear that there is some ambiguity whether Stigand is actually crowning Harold or if he is just there. He's standing beside the king - who is already crowned. It is also way too much detail for this article - we cover the fact that the tapestry shows him there - we do not need to detail every placement of the people. We're an encyclopedia, not a scholarly monograph discussing this issue. It's just common courtesy to actually conform the citations to the style in use in the article - which you've edit warred back in. You've also mangled the whole section - you've got "The scene depicted is immediately after the coronation and shows Stigand (whose name is prominently embroidered STIGANT) standing at the left-hand of King Harold, seated on a throne, wearing a crown and holding royal regalia. Thus Stigand is not depicted actually in the act of placing the crown on Harold's head." sourced to Rex Harold p. 151 - who says nothing at all close to what you've got him saying about the Tapestry. You've also ... ignored the whole BRD concept - you were bold and added, I reverted it and instead of discussing - you've edit warred inaccuracies back in. Douglas' Historical Documents isn't the best source both because of its age and because of what it is - it's discussing the various primary sources. Douglas' later work on William the Conqueror is not nearly so emphatic on Stigand being the actual officiant - he merely states the Tapestry depicts Stigand performing some act in connection with Harold's accension - not as the actual officiant. (And Douglas specifically refers to his earlier work as part of his source for this - so he's obviously changed his mind somewhat.). Grape's work on the Tapestry discusses this scene and never quite comes down on the side that it depicts Stigand actually presiding at the coronation - he makes it clear that it is meant to show Stigand involved with the coronation, but that it cannot be said to depict the actual coronation. If we include all this detail on the Tapestry - we have to balance it by more detail about the opposing side's arguements - and then we're way into undue territory. Way too much weight and detail assigned to something that was covered before this edit - we summarize as an encyclopedia. It's worth noting that Rumble's recent article on Stigand mentions this scene in the Tapestry just in a footnote - and doesn't claim that Stigand was the officiant at the coronation. His words are ""Archibishop Stigand is dpicted on the Bayeux Tapestry, standing with arms outstretched in acclamation, in front and on the left of the enthroned King Harold." (This is from 2012). Musset's work on the Tapestry discusses this scene and concludes that Stigand's "presence in this scene suggest that he is performing some king of liturgical function: although it does not seem to be an actual coronation, it is certainly not far removed from one" and then goes on to state that he feels it's probably one of the ceremonial crown-wearings that William later was famous for. So - no, Douglas' EHD is no longer the last word - and all this discussion of what the scene means would be better placed at the article on the Tapestry - not here, where we briefly touch on it and then continue on with discussing Stigand's biography. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:02, 3 August 2014 (UTC)