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Steve Jobs was a Engineering and technology good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Where it states: "In mid-1975, after returning to Atari, Jobs was assigned to create [this should be "modify" I believe] a circuit board for the arcade video game Breakout.[65] According to Bushnell, Atari offered $100 (equivalent to about $500 in 2021) for each TTL chip that was eliminated in the machine. Jobs had little specialized knowledge of circuit board design and made a deal with Wozniak to split the fee evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Much to the amazement of Atari engineers, Wozniak reduced the TTL count to 46, a design so tight that it was impossible to reproduce on an assembly line.[66] According to Wozniak, Jobs told him that Atari paid them only $700 (instead of the actual $5,000), and that Wozniak's share was thus $350.[67] Wozniak did not learn about the actual bonus until ten years later, but said that if Jobs had told him about it and explained that he needed the money, Wozniak would have given it to him.[68]"
You can't "eliminate" chips from a design you haven't "created" yet. It's either that or they wanted him to minimize the amount of TTL IC's to be used in a design.
But from what I've read, Atari had a board, it cost too much to make and was too large, so therefor they wanted it to be reduced in size and complexity .
But irregardless, he wasn't able to do it - Wozniak did it.
Wamnet ( talk) 01:54, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
There would be a bonus, Bushnell told him, for every chip fewer than fifty that he used.If you can find a source that contradicts, please post it here.
Wozniak used only forty-five chips. Recollections differ, but by most accounts Jobs simply gave Wozniak half of the base fee and not the bonus Bushnell paid for saving five chips, which contradicts what we have now. However, while Linzmayer 2004 ("Apple Confidential 2.0", a solid book) agrees on "4 days", it quotes Woz as saying:
“Nolan Bushnell wanted a game with as few chips as possible. Steve said if there were less than 50 chips, we got paid $700 and split it in half. Less than 40 chips, $1,000. After four nights, it was 42 chips. I wasn’t about to spend another second trying to reduce it by two more chips; I’ll settle for $700.”(notice: one says 42 chips, one says 45).
Bushnell knew that Jobs was not a great engineer, but he assumed, correctly, that he would recruit Wozniak, who was always hanging around. “I looked at it as a two-for-one thing,” Bushnell recalled. “Woz was a better engineer.”(btw, "always hanging around" is supported by Malone 1999, too). I'll try to rework this later if I have time, but would rather wait until we figure out whether it was 46, 45 or 42 chips. We need a source that resolves the discrepancy. DFlhb ( talk) 18:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Don't like this section. It should explain his role in these products, his decision-making, etc., not just plainly describe the products. And I think the description of his role would best fit within the general chronology of the biography, rather than as a separate "Products" section. DFlhb ( talk) 23:28, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
@ Flyedit32: why do you persist in reverting despite policy? In articles, when unsourced content is reverted, it stays out until affirmative consensus is reached ( WP:BURDEN).
The first sentence is for occupations. Making one investment in Pixar doesn't make Jobs an investor. You've removed entrepreneur, which is verifiable and WP:BLUESKY, and reinstated "magnate", which is neither. I'd have added "innovator" (along with proper sources) but inventor is fine too. DFlhb ( talk) 21:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Section “Health problems”, second paragraph, last word in the following excerpt:
However, cancer researcher and alternative medicine critic David Gorski wrote that "it's impossible to know whether and by how much he might have decreased his chances of surviving his cancer through his flirtation with woo.
Both of the references for the above excerpt contain “woo”. I note that “WOO” or “WoO” stands for “Window of Opportunity” per the following:
https://ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.1200/JCO.2020.38.29_suppl.181#:~:text=Background%3A%20In%20%E2%80%9Cwindow%20of%20opportunity,and%20definitive%20anti%2Dcancer%20treatment. In “window of opportunity” (WOO) clinical trials, people with newly diagnosed early-stage cancer are exposed to an experimental drug during the period of time between diagnosis and definitive anti-cancer treatment. These trials allow investigators to study drug efficacy in untreated disease, which can expedite drug development. However, for trial participants, the WOO approach requires them to decide about an altruistic clinical trial during an intense time immediately after cancer diagnosis. This qualitative study aimed to understand patient perspectives on WOO clinical trials.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04644289 WoO: Window of Opportunity Trial of Olaparib and Durvalumab in Histologically Proven EOC (WoO)
Should a reference to the meaning of “woo” (I don’t know whether it’s an acronym or an initialism) and the fact that it should have been written as “WOO” or “WoO” (if both are considered to be correct) in the excerpt’s references be included? I suppose the easiest thing would be to replace “woo” with “[WOO]” (if that’s considered acceptable) and make it a link to the ascopubs.org page above which defines it. Dbsx ( talk) 13:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Should we create a series template for Jobs like there is for Musk or Gates? It wouldn't have to be too long or anything, but I do feel like there is plenty to use for it, and it could help with reader navigation, too. Thanks. ~ Flyedit32 ( talk) 15:10, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
He was a businessman that revealed technology to mass media and the public. Mechanical Keyboarder ( talk) 04:20, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add in "Pre-Apple" Nolan Bushnell recommended Steve Jobs to Don Valentine who in turn introduced him to Mike Markkula. https://articles.sequoiacap.com/apple-story Linzmayer 2004, pp. 8–10 207.96.32.81 ( talk) 00:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
I recently created a draft for Reed Jobs. Any help would be appreciated. Thriley ( talk) 02:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Actually, Steve's original birth name was Abdul Lateef John Jandali. 97.118.121.7 ( talk) 22:50, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hi Wikipedia, I have a lot of knowledge I have read from books and would like to share with everyone, I am an enthusiastic person, and trustworthy, I would like to share my prior and current knowledge with everyone using Wikipedia
Thank You, BobYan69 BobYan69 ( talk) 06:14, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
The lead sentence has been repeatedly changed this past year, with slow-motion edit warring instead of talk page discussions. I disputed "business magnate" and "investor" above as against MOS:ROLEBIO, and the user who reinstated them didn't discuss on talk. Mechanical Keyboarder disputed Flyedit32's bold addition of "inventor", and I've come to agree since it's redundant with the end of the first paragraph, but this was reinstated several times without discussion.
Could we all collaborate on what the lead sentence should say? How about the simplest, "American entrepreneur"? The relevant guidelines are MOS:FIRSTBIO and MOS:ROLEBIO. DFlhb ( talk) 08:07, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the Health problems > Death section, add at the end of the 5th paragraph:
Richard Stallman commented on his death: "I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone". [1] Flakesosa ( talk) 21:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit semi-protected}}
template.
Why?
Pinchme123 (
talk) 04:28, 26 November 2023 (UTC)References
Can we get a better infobox photo? Why do we have the infobox photo of him near the end of his life? The 1984 portrait of him is better for the infobox photo in my humble opinion. Ccole2006 ( talk) 03:34, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
To be honest, some parts of early life section is a bit confusing to me. Paul, Jobs, Paul Jobs, Clara, Clara Hagopian. Arggh, sometimes I saw no clear distinction of what refers to what. Natsuikomin ( talk) 13:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
According to Wozniak, Jobs told him that Atari paid them only $750 (instead of the actual $5,000), and that Wozniak's share was thus $375.
Change the wording to be the same as Steve Wozniak's page, where it is much clearer that Steve Jobs scammed his best friend. It is ambiguous enough here to where I didn't realize what had happened. It sounds like he was only paid $750.
Corrected version (Source: /info/en/?search=Steve_Wozniak) : Jobs had little knowledge of circuit board design and made a deal with Wozniak to split the fee evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Wozniak reduced the number of chips by 50, by using RAM for the brick representation. The fact that this prototype had no scoring or coin mechanisms meant Woz's prototype could not be used. Jobs was paid the full bonus regardless. Jobs told Wozniak that Atari gave them only $700 and that Wozniak's share was thus $350 (equivalent to $2,400 in 2023).[33][5]: 147–148, 180 Wozniak did not learn about the actual $5,000 bonus (equivalent to $34,300 in 2023) until ten years later. While dismayed, he said that if Jobs had told him about it and had said he needed the money, Wozniak would have given it to him.[34]: 104–107 Quantumcon ( talk) 09:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
'''[[
User:CanonNi]]'''
(
talk|
contribs) 09:01, 9 April 2024 (UTC)I think the 1984 portrait of him is better for the infobox than the cuurent one, which shows him at the near end of his life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccole2006 ( talk • contribs) 19:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Steve Jobs article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 |
Steve Jobs was a Engineering and technology good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Where it states: "In mid-1975, after returning to Atari, Jobs was assigned to create [this should be "modify" I believe] a circuit board for the arcade video game Breakout.[65] According to Bushnell, Atari offered $100 (equivalent to about $500 in 2021) for each TTL chip that was eliminated in the machine. Jobs had little specialized knowledge of circuit board design and made a deal with Wozniak to split the fee evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Much to the amazement of Atari engineers, Wozniak reduced the TTL count to 46, a design so tight that it was impossible to reproduce on an assembly line.[66] According to Wozniak, Jobs told him that Atari paid them only $700 (instead of the actual $5,000), and that Wozniak's share was thus $350.[67] Wozniak did not learn about the actual bonus until ten years later, but said that if Jobs had told him about it and explained that he needed the money, Wozniak would have given it to him.[68]"
You can't "eliminate" chips from a design you haven't "created" yet. It's either that or they wanted him to minimize the amount of TTL IC's to be used in a design.
But from what I've read, Atari had a board, it cost too much to make and was too large, so therefor they wanted it to be reduced in size and complexity .
But irregardless, he wasn't able to do it - Wozniak did it.
Wamnet ( talk) 01:54, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
There would be a bonus, Bushnell told him, for every chip fewer than fifty that he used.If you can find a source that contradicts, please post it here.
Wozniak used only forty-five chips. Recollections differ, but by most accounts Jobs simply gave Wozniak half of the base fee and not the bonus Bushnell paid for saving five chips, which contradicts what we have now. However, while Linzmayer 2004 ("Apple Confidential 2.0", a solid book) agrees on "4 days", it quotes Woz as saying:
“Nolan Bushnell wanted a game with as few chips as possible. Steve said if there were less than 50 chips, we got paid $700 and split it in half. Less than 40 chips, $1,000. After four nights, it was 42 chips. I wasn’t about to spend another second trying to reduce it by two more chips; I’ll settle for $700.”(notice: one says 42 chips, one says 45).
Bushnell knew that Jobs was not a great engineer, but he assumed, correctly, that he would recruit Wozniak, who was always hanging around. “I looked at it as a two-for-one thing,” Bushnell recalled. “Woz was a better engineer.”(btw, "always hanging around" is supported by Malone 1999, too). I'll try to rework this later if I have time, but would rather wait until we figure out whether it was 46, 45 or 42 chips. We need a source that resolves the discrepancy. DFlhb ( talk) 18:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Don't like this section. It should explain his role in these products, his decision-making, etc., not just plainly describe the products. And I think the description of his role would best fit within the general chronology of the biography, rather than as a separate "Products" section. DFlhb ( talk) 23:28, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
@ Flyedit32: why do you persist in reverting despite policy? In articles, when unsourced content is reverted, it stays out until affirmative consensus is reached ( WP:BURDEN).
The first sentence is for occupations. Making one investment in Pixar doesn't make Jobs an investor. You've removed entrepreneur, which is verifiable and WP:BLUESKY, and reinstated "magnate", which is neither. I'd have added "innovator" (along with proper sources) but inventor is fine too. DFlhb ( talk) 21:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Section “Health problems”, second paragraph, last word in the following excerpt:
However, cancer researcher and alternative medicine critic David Gorski wrote that "it's impossible to know whether and by how much he might have decreased his chances of surviving his cancer through his flirtation with woo.
Both of the references for the above excerpt contain “woo”. I note that “WOO” or “WoO” stands for “Window of Opportunity” per the following:
https://ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.1200/JCO.2020.38.29_suppl.181#:~:text=Background%3A%20In%20%E2%80%9Cwindow%20of%20opportunity,and%20definitive%20anti%2Dcancer%20treatment. In “window of opportunity” (WOO) clinical trials, people with newly diagnosed early-stage cancer are exposed to an experimental drug during the period of time between diagnosis and definitive anti-cancer treatment. These trials allow investigators to study drug efficacy in untreated disease, which can expedite drug development. However, for trial participants, the WOO approach requires them to decide about an altruistic clinical trial during an intense time immediately after cancer diagnosis. This qualitative study aimed to understand patient perspectives on WOO clinical trials.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04644289 WoO: Window of Opportunity Trial of Olaparib and Durvalumab in Histologically Proven EOC (WoO)
Should a reference to the meaning of “woo” (I don’t know whether it’s an acronym or an initialism) and the fact that it should have been written as “WOO” or “WoO” (if both are considered to be correct) in the excerpt’s references be included? I suppose the easiest thing would be to replace “woo” with “[WOO]” (if that’s considered acceptable) and make it a link to the ascopubs.org page above which defines it. Dbsx ( talk) 13:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Should we create a series template for Jobs like there is for Musk or Gates? It wouldn't have to be too long or anything, but I do feel like there is plenty to use for it, and it could help with reader navigation, too. Thanks. ~ Flyedit32 ( talk) 15:10, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
He was a businessman that revealed technology to mass media and the public. Mechanical Keyboarder ( talk) 04:20, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add in "Pre-Apple" Nolan Bushnell recommended Steve Jobs to Don Valentine who in turn introduced him to Mike Markkula. https://articles.sequoiacap.com/apple-story Linzmayer 2004, pp. 8–10 207.96.32.81 ( talk) 00:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
I recently created a draft for Reed Jobs. Any help would be appreciated. Thriley ( talk) 02:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Actually, Steve's original birth name was Abdul Lateef John Jandali. 97.118.121.7 ( talk) 22:50, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hi Wikipedia, I have a lot of knowledge I have read from books and would like to share with everyone, I am an enthusiastic person, and trustworthy, I would like to share my prior and current knowledge with everyone using Wikipedia
Thank You, BobYan69 BobYan69 ( talk) 06:14, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
The lead sentence has been repeatedly changed this past year, with slow-motion edit warring instead of talk page discussions. I disputed "business magnate" and "investor" above as against MOS:ROLEBIO, and the user who reinstated them didn't discuss on talk. Mechanical Keyboarder disputed Flyedit32's bold addition of "inventor", and I've come to agree since it's redundant with the end of the first paragraph, but this was reinstated several times without discussion.
Could we all collaborate on what the lead sentence should say? How about the simplest, "American entrepreneur"? The relevant guidelines are MOS:FIRSTBIO and MOS:ROLEBIO. DFlhb ( talk) 08:07, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the Health problems > Death section, add at the end of the 5th paragraph:
Richard Stallman commented on his death: "I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone". [1] Flakesosa ( talk) 21:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit semi-protected}}
template.
Why?
Pinchme123 (
talk) 04:28, 26 November 2023 (UTC)References
Can we get a better infobox photo? Why do we have the infobox photo of him near the end of his life? The 1984 portrait of him is better for the infobox photo in my humble opinion. Ccole2006 ( talk) 03:34, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
To be honest, some parts of early life section is a bit confusing to me. Paul, Jobs, Paul Jobs, Clara, Clara Hagopian. Arggh, sometimes I saw no clear distinction of what refers to what. Natsuikomin ( talk) 13:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
According to Wozniak, Jobs told him that Atari paid them only $750 (instead of the actual $5,000), and that Wozniak's share was thus $375.
Change the wording to be the same as Steve Wozniak's page, where it is much clearer that Steve Jobs scammed his best friend. It is ambiguous enough here to where I didn't realize what had happened. It sounds like he was only paid $750.
Corrected version (Source: /info/en/?search=Steve_Wozniak) : Jobs had little knowledge of circuit board design and made a deal with Wozniak to split the fee evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Wozniak reduced the number of chips by 50, by using RAM for the brick representation. The fact that this prototype had no scoring or coin mechanisms meant Woz's prototype could not be used. Jobs was paid the full bonus regardless. Jobs told Wozniak that Atari gave them only $700 and that Wozniak's share was thus $350 (equivalent to $2,400 in 2023).[33][5]: 147–148, 180 Wozniak did not learn about the actual $5,000 bonus (equivalent to $34,300 in 2023) until ten years later. While dismayed, he said that if Jobs had told him about it and had said he needed the money, Wozniak would have given it to him.[34]: 104–107 Quantumcon ( talk) 09:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
'''[[
User:CanonNi]]'''
(
talk|
contribs) 09:01, 9 April 2024 (UTC)I think the 1984 portrait of him is better for the infobox than the cuurent one, which shows him at the near end of his life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccole2006 ( talk • contribs) 19:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)