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I propose standardisation of sections and their order, in regard to other article on similar languages, like Croatian, Czech, Polish, Slovene, Lithuanian, Estonian, Romanian etc. See Danish language, very nice article.
I found Polish order particularly fine. I.e. History, Geographic distribution, Dialects, Phonology, Ortography, Grammar. Seems to be useful to have section on Using/Use, including official use and status, somewhere. I give my vote in favour of Literature overview (with link to literature) in article on language.
Then, I added already a section with sample text from Universal Declaration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikipcontributor800 ( talk • contribs) 18:15, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
The whole article uses the word "Slovak" (Slovak Republic, Slovak spelling etc.)
Whoever changed "slovenský jazyk" to "kokotskijazyk"... I revised it back. Some people's stupidity amazes me. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
78.99.192.80 (
talk) 08:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I am crying too Brion...
and also... who wrote that nonsense about Slovaks from the western part of the country often not being able to understand those in the east. If, as an foreigner, I have little difficulty in understanding Spisske or Vychodnarske dialects, I think that those not able to understand are really just unwilling to understand.
James
You do not know what you are talking about...It is impossible to understand many of the eastern dialects if you speak standard Slovak only - both phonetically and in terms of vocabulary. There is a special dictionary for Eastern Slovak dialects...Obviously, you did never hear true dialects, because few people are using them today. Juro 12:07, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I am crying
Removed the following non-information:
-- Brion 18:05 Aug 15, 2002 (PDT)
I know German dialects very well (although, of course, not all of them) and they do not have different declension and conjunction (they are only - to put it simply - different, often very different, degrees of vocabulary "distortions") - and generally that`s what makes the main difference between two languages and two dialects (unless there is a very different vocabulary, or a severe political separation (eg. Noth and South Korean language or, in the past, the Netherlands and Germany)).
Juro .... Waiting for a reaction by Rgrg...
And this has not much to do with mutual intelligibility, that depends mostly on similar vocabulary, then on similar phonology (or orthography for written languages), and grammar goes the last (unless you get familiar with the language, you are just guessing the part of speech values anyway). Rgrg
Another question: How "exactly" is a Language continuum defined (if there is an official definition at all)?. Above all, must there be a real "continuum"(i.e.gradual and continuous change)? Juro
There is an orphaned article in the Wikipedia, Ïanà, which is identified as a French-influenced dialect of Slovakian. As such, would it be appropriate to include a link to that article from the article on the Slovak language? I'm no linguist, so I am not sure. Kevyn 02:50, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I have a strong suspicion that Ïanà article is completely bogus. Why it is not impossible that such a language has been invented (however the date given puts it before the planned languages boom inspired by Esperanto), the sentence about existing speakers makes me highly suspicious.
Ïanà is now listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion Kevyn 22:30, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Isn't it true that in those long consonant clusters, what's really happening is that 'r' is functioning as a vowel? If that's true, we should explain it that way.
The text DOES say that (right at the beginning)... Juro 14:58, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Please, don't be "overdefensive". Many people are, especially when it comes down to a national or language feelings, but this does not belong to an encyclopedia. If there are web pages stating incorrect information, let them be. Overdefensiveness practically oozes through the whole article of Slovakia and Slovak language - the smallest hint that could be interpreted as lowering the status of Slovak(ia) is thoroughly analysed, explained, re-analysed, counterexamples are provided, just to defend Slovak(ia) from... whom? Class enemy? In my opinion, neither Slovakia nor Slovak language needs such a defence. And it is at the expense of simplicity and clarity. rado 14:10, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(1) As an example, there is a seriously looking web page ( I do not remember which one) explicitely saying that the Slovak language arose from the Czech language (from Middle Czech as far as I remember). Moreover, I have read an English language book saying that Slovak arose from Polish (2) Is the sentence wrong? - no, Is it unclear - no?, Does it correct wrong information provided by other sources? - yes -> so where's the problem ?? (most of the last changes in the article are superfluous and too dificult for non-linguists - that's what should be changed, not that sentence), (3) actually this is not the matter at hand, but since you have opened this interesting question: the Slovak language needs much more help and defense then any Slovak in Slovakia (even the linguists) can imagine nowadays - but to find that out you would have to spend several years abroad (not in Czehia) and with foreign texts to see how catastrophic the situation is reagarding ANY information on Slovakia, regarding the teaching of the Slovak language compared to any other language in Central Europe, regarding anything...but as opposed to the Slovenes, absolutely nothing happens in this field with Slovaks (no wonder in a country unable to write - in the 21st century - at least one single big bilingual English dictionary) ...[In addition, my personal estimate is that the language will not really be used anymore in 100 years (in favour of the Czech and English language), so it actually needs defense, although that has not been the problem in this particular case] Juro 02:02, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
a) The text I have mentioned is an (allegedly) official serious text. b) It still holds that the statement is correct and represents useful information, thus there is no reason for deleting it c) I understand that you do not know how terrible the situation is, I had the same opinions like you here years ago (and that's somehow typically "Slovak"), but that is simply not true. Even in the neighbouring Austria Slovak virtually does not exist, compared even to Slovenian and other small languages - not the mention knowledge about Slovak history, literature from Slovakia etc... And just do not want to know what would be written about Slovakia in this and other wikipedias if I had not contributed here virtually all the basic articles and ... some other things I cannot mention here. d) The fact that people also do not know about Lithuania etc. is a typical irrational argument - that does not change anything regarding the situation of Slovakia. I did not say Slovakia was the only country in the world with such problems. Juro 22:26, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've copied Slovak lyric to Hey, Slavs from the web [1]. It's all in ASCII; I corrected the ČŠŽ letters where I could guess them, but it needs a native speaker for other diacritics, as well as a thorough checking for correctness.
Additions to the article and/or comments are appreciated as well. Zocky 15:29, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I improved the IPA (or so I hope). As part of this, I stumbled over the fact that ď, ť, ň, ľ, which I would have expected to be palatalized based on other Slavic languages, were transcribed as fully palatal, while the descriptions in the text are more compatible with palatalized consonants. I removed this discrepancy by interpreting them all as palatalized. However, I have not heard enough spoken Slovak to be sure about this. If you are sure that I'm wrong, please edit that, but keep in mind that the Romance sounds written gn and gl in Italian are not [ɲ] and [ʎ] – instead they are [ɲj] and [ʎj]! (I should add some diacritic to the [j], but I can't find a suiting one.)
I changed the SAMPA to Kirshenbaum. The reasons for this are:
Please feel free to change this back to SAMPA, to add SAMPA, or to simply remove both – after all IPA is enough by itself!
www.slavism.net does not exist. Someone please fix the link.
David Marjanović david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at 2005/9/28 00:38 CET-summertime
I say that Romanian "păstor" would be a more likely etymology. bogdan | Talk 09:50, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
The list stems from experts. I "say" the Romanian word is derived from a Slavic word (if it means shepherd). What I mean is that external appearance is not enough for such speculations. You have to know where the word occured first, when it occured first, how it looked like historically etc. Juro 13:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I'd say it came from Latin to Romanian, in the Antiquity (Roman conquests), and then was introduced to both Slovaks and Hungarians. Remember, the Romanians (Wallachians or wlahoi or dahoi dacian origins) taught the Slovaks all about sheep herding. Slovak bryndza originates from Romanian brânzǎ! Jancikotuc 14:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think, that it is quite possible, that the word shephard = pastier/pastor may be a common "Indo-european" word - which means, it is equally good a latin as also a slovak word. I don't speak Latin/Romanian, but I speak Slovak, and we have also a verb "pásť", which means "to shepherd" and it is related to the word pastier. JH from Slovakia
i am just learning and it seems real fun
Just a question is slovak closer to russian or to serbo-croatian? - Lazar
What happened to the "trivia" section? Rmpfu89 17:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi people, i've got a feeling that descriptions for the Gerund and the Present Participle are swapped. i'm not a linguist so i cannot modify it and vouch for the correctness, but i'm a native Slovak speaker and that's quite enough.
Yes, the gerund and the present participle are the same in English (A *sleeping* man. -- A man was lying there, *sleeping*.), but NOT in Slovak. That might be the cause of this error. Jancikotuc 13:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
There is no error in that part of the article. Juro 16:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Is biele read /biɛlɛ/ or /bjɛlɛ/ or /bʲɛlɛ/? - Iopq 09:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Number 3 (but all three are the same, actually, when you try to pronounce them). Juro 17:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, the article in Wikipedia says that "pekný" and "pekní" are read in the same way. As far as I know, there IS a little difference: "ý" does not soften the consonant "n", but "í" does. The same says my grammar that I have at home. Can a native-speaker verify this? Zyx, 7 Jan 2007
There is no difference, they are and have always been proncounced the same way, thy -í is only an orthographical rule to show it is a word in plural and thus an exception from the softening "rule". The article cannot contain the whole grammar and all exceptions, otherwise it would be endless. Juro 00:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
It's interesting that nobody seems to be distracted by the fact that ɛ corresponds to slovak ä, not e. If it wouldn't, all the speakers would speak with "a terrible Hungarian accent" (since it's prevalent in Hungarian, and most of the Slovak speakers view those who have a heavy Hungarian accent to hava an awful/terrible/nasty accent). CoolKoon ( talk) 11:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The article contains the statement "The circumflex ("vokáň") exists only above the letter o. It turns the o into a diphthong (see below).". Afterward O circumflex isn't mentioned. You'd expect such a statement to be followed by an explanation detailing the role of O circumflex, its usage, the IPA representation, etc. No such luck. ???
Just to say that I've removed the reference to the German pronunciation of "ch" in ch – Scottish ch, for example in Loch Ness (like German ch in Bach, Russian х).
The Germans pronounce 'Bach' with an ach-Laut that is to say the voiceless velar fricative [x].
The German 'ch' is not the same as the Czech and Slovak 'ch'. Sladek 14:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
These are certainly not pronounced in the same way; "-ní" is /ɲi:/, but "-ný" is /ni:/, right? Sladek 15:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I see; thanks for that. Sladek 18:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovaks --> there are 5.8 mil. slovaks
but here, you said "total speakers - more than 6 mil???? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.131.152.20 ( talk) 17:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
In "Differences between the Slovak and Czech languages" somebody got emotional: "hundreds of dialects" is not very scientific. In Tyrol most villages have an a bit differing dialect OF THEIR OWN - but they are all subdialects of Tyrolian, which is considered a dialect of German. I'm sure it's the same with Slovakian dialects. Qubux 18:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I've tweaked this section somewhat. Some of the connections are wrong (e.g. Hungarian word for brain agy and isn't borrowed from Slavonic *mozga; words such as könyv/kniha, szán/sane and szóba/soba are classified as Wanderwörter and linguists argue over how they came about into the Hungarian lexicon, since similar words turn up in Turkic, Mongolic and other Slavonic languages. In any case, I've "filled in the blanks" for some of the other loanowrds.
Nevertheless, I have a suscpicion that whoever worked on this originally has a rather anti-Hungarian view and is really trying to underline that the Hungarians were truly barbaric outsiders in contrast to the sedentary and "civilized" Slavs. While no one disputes the amount of borrowing in Hungarian, is it really necessary to make such a big list? I mean we could argue that Proto-Slavs were similar to these barbaric Hungarian pagans before their conversion to Christianity and exposure to the Germanic tribes. Several Slovak loanwords in Hungarian originally entered Proto-Slavonic from Latin, Greek or an Old Germanic language.
e.g. ultimately borrowed from Latin or Greek:
- Christian -> kresťan > keresztény
- angel -> anjel > angyal
- cross -> kríž > kereszt
e.g. ultimately borrowed from Germanic:
- *kuningaz (cf. English 'king', German: könig) -> knieža > kenéz
- *Karol (cf. Charlemagne ~ "Great King") -> kráľ > király
I reason that since we're dealing with the Slovak language, why is there such a relatively substantial list of Slovak words in Hungarian? Shouldn't the emphasis in this Slovak article be on Hungarian loanwords in Slovak? (however few they are) It would make sense for this section of Slovak loanwords in Hungarian to be placed in the article about Hungarian, right? -- Vput 16:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I am Slovak and I think you're right about the attempt to show, that old hungarians were primitive barbarians. The list is too long, it doesnt belong here in this extent. Boris.
I have made changes to your changes in the respective part of the article, since you claimed that Slovak films etc. had to be dubbed into Czech for Czech children now, which had not been the case in the past. This is not quite so:
(1) Why they have to be dubbed? Czech children were not able to understand Slovak well in the period of Czechoslovakia, too, so why they have to be dubbed now and why not in the past? And how the film-makers etc. find out that the children would really not understand? - Their translating etc. activities are based on mere assumptions, not a comparative research or qualified knowledge of the past vs. present-time. I would like to stress that how people understand the other language and how they think they understand it are two different things.
(2) Some fairy tales and other kinds of media products were translated from Slovak to Czech in the past (Czechoslovakia) as well. This is not a new phenomena (albeit more spread).
Another point. You state that Czech children themselves claim that they do not understand Slovak well. Yes, but this was the case in the period Czechoslovakia, too! - If you were interested in literature on this topic (including what is listed in References), where some evidence can be found, you can contact me via icq (268-144-094). Best, Marian Sloboda - Nairam 09:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I reverted "Grammar review for "Na shledanou" and "Do videnia" by native speaker" (78.128.193.66). I am a native speaker of Czech and I'm sure that only "na shledanou" is correct (see official Slovník spisovné češtiny). Although "nashledanou" can be frequently seen, it is treated as incorrect. I don't know the codified rules of the Slovak orthography but I think this is similar in Slovak as in Czech. Maybe, both variants (do videnia/dovidenia) are correct in Slovak. -- Pajast 15:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I've tweaked this section somewhat. Some of the connections are wrong (e.g. Hungarian word for brain agy and isn't borrowed from Slavonic *mozga; words such as könyv/kniha, szán/sane and szóba/soba are classified as Wanderwörter and linguists argue over how they came about into the Hungarian lexicon, since similar words turn up in Turkic, Mongolic and other Slavonic languages. In any case, I've "filled in the blanks" for some of the other loanowrds.
Nevertheless, I have a suscpicion that whoever worked on this originally has a rather anti-Hungarian view and is really trying to underline that the Hungarians were truly barbaric outsiders in contrast to the sedentary and "civilized" Slavs. While no one disputes the amount of borrowing in Hungarian, is it really necessary to make such a big list? I mean we could argue that Proto-Slavs were similar to these barbaric Hungarian pagans before their conversion to Christianity and exposure to the Germanic tribes. Several Slovak loanwords in Hungarian originally entered Proto-Slavonic from Latin, Greek or an Old Germanic language.
e.g. ultimately borrowed from Latin or Greek:
- Christian -> kresťan > keresztény
- angel -> anjel > angyal
- cross -> kríž > kereszt
e.g. ultimately borrowed from Germanic:
- *kuningaz (cf. English 'king', German: könig) -> knieža > kenéz
- *Karol (cf. Charlemagne ~ "Great King") -> kráľ > király
I reason that since we're dealing with the Slovak language, why is there such a relatively substantial list of Slovak words in Hungarian? Shouldn't the emphasis in this Slovak article be on Hungarian loanwords in Slovak? (however few they are) It would make sense for this section of Slovak loanwords in Hungarian to be placed in the article about Hungarian, right? -- Vput 16:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Some of these are Slavic loanwords (not Slovak), but the real question is: why do you put a whole section about the Hungarian language into this article about Slovakian? I don't like to repeat myself, but you force me to. Squash Racket 04:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
ok I do not speak Slovak do not comment on it (however I just repeat what I have read from those who did, but obviously Slovak lingusts know Hungarian better that Hungarian ones), but why do you do on Hungarian, if you do not speak? Further many cited word like pasztor is form LATIN, not Slovak, is it not nonsense that Latin, English, French, German all borrowed from Slovak?? Many Hungarian translations are not correct, some have spelling mistakes. -- Vargatamas ( talk) 11:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter that the list is correct or not, more important that it is absolutely out of place here. The article is about the Slovak language not Hungarian, why anybody is so interested in the topic of Slavic loanwords in Hungarian then? This obviously belongs to the Hungarian language article. Would you put in the "mountains" section of the Geography of Slovakia article a list about how small are the hills of Hungary? Only for the comparison... Zello ( talk) 22:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
1) Slovak as name was not mentioned before 16th century, actually no written evidences before Reformation (according also to wiki articles) 2) it separated from close related Slavic languages only much later, so if no Slovak yet no loanwords could exist... 3) in Hungarian diplomas are no mention of Slovak, while there are Slavs, Croats, Wends, Poles, Czechs, Bulgars, Servians, Bosnians, Slavonians, Russians, etc. from teh earliers times and in teh Angevin period. 4) Many agriculture related words comes from Turkish (Cuman, Pecheneg, Uz, whatever, also nomads...) e.g. arpa, ökör, etc or even Persian (or Alan, Jasz-Philisteus), therewas no good sounding Slovak word for them?
-- Vargatamas ( talk) 13:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I repeat my question: what's the aim of this list here? Hungarian etimology is definitely not the topic of the article. The readers here are obviously interested in the development of Slovak language and its etimology, but instead they will find this list about Hungarian words borrowed from Slavic languages. Why? That kind of information belongs to the Hungarian language article. Zello ( talk) 14:43, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey Zello, I wouldn't waste my time here with these guys. We know what the unspoken answer is. Some of the contributors are acting like lawyers and deliberately missing the point by merely hiding behind the defense that these Hungarian words are Slavonic loanwords. They don't have the guts to answer the question about the relevance of such a long list. The fact that the full list keeps returning very quickly after being removed or even pared down (courtesy Tankred and others - Tankred is an obviously proud Slovak if you check his contribution history) leads us to believe that this section is being watched closely by some apparently insecure/touchy Slovaks. While Slovaks were dominated by Hungarians for about 1000 years, this section about allegedly Slovak loanwords in Hungarian (if we check MNyTESz, the sources for Slavonic loanwords into Hungarian were from Moravians or Slovaks to the north and Slovenes, Croats and Serbs from the south) is a way for some Slovaks to insinuate to the rest of the world that if it hadn't been for the Slovaks, the barbaric Hungarians wouldn't have known such items of civilization such as tables (asztal - stôl), crosses (kereszt - kríž) and the like. If you check the history of this page, I reduced this section a bit and made some corrections to it in the fall. My corrections remained but my reduced version was reverted back to its original length. For the record I don't have Hungarian or Slovak ancestry but can speak both Hungarian and Slovak and have friends on both sides of the border. (figure that one out :-P). Thus I have an idea of what the languages are about but the emotional ties that I have to both cultures (through my friends) are equal and I'm unable to favour either side. If we use the questionable logic of Tankred, Bruce95Bruce and others who seem to get a kick at hinting at the supposed cultural superiority of speakers of Old Slovak speakers over speakers of Old Hungarian by virtue of the mainly one-way traffic of Slavonic loanwords into Hungarian, then the Wikipedia entry on the English language would be justified in having a detailed and tedious list showing all of the English loanwords that exist in Spanish, German, Russian, Hungarian, Slovak, Japanese, Chinese etc. More to the point, these same Slovaks should then have no qualms about the Wikipedia articles on Greek, Latin or Old High German each having a detailed list showing all of the Greek, Latin or Germanic loanwords in Slovak (some of which in turn passed on into Hungarian). As I've shown earlier in this talk page, I've put down some examples of the Slovak loanwords in Hungarian being loanwords themselves from Greek, Latin or Old High German. So if we want to be a little snide, we can draw the conclusion that the Slovaks of 1000 years ago were not as high and mighty as their modern-day supporters would like to think. ( Vput ( talk) 06:57, 13 January 2008 (UTC))
I've touched up the section of Hungarian loanwords in Slovak a bit (as far as I can tell, baňa is not a borrowing of the Hungarian bánya). For the sake of balance, I've put some information about Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian with the note that their presence does not automatically mean that the Hungarians borrowed these words or concepts from Slovaks. I consulted my copy of the Hungarian etymological dictionary to ensure accuracy, but didn't want to overload this section and make another long-winded list as was the case before. Vput ( talk) 03:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I removed the examples but left in place the generalities. The examples are very useful for the Hungarian language article and I propose you to add them there. Nobody has anything against Slavic or Slovak loanwords in Hungarian, their existence is a linguistic fact, but there is no need for such kind of list here. Zello ( talk) 13:16, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I do agree that such a list of Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian makes more sense being in the article on Hungarian but I just wanted to keep things balanced (or at least demonstrate to more sensitive folk reading this article that I'm willing to show both sides of the matter). We'll see whether things here will be reverted yet again. Vput ( talk) 17:23, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Relevant discussion copied from my talkpage:
Tankred just reverted the Slovak article to include the long-winded list from before (as I strongly suspected he would do.) This sensitivity and instant revert was the main reason why I included some Slavonic loanwords in my edit. I know what you're trying to say by not going into great detail about Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian and removing my examples from the article, but I felt that my way would at least give even less justification to people like Tankred to belabour the point of Slovak's supposedly major contribution to Hungarian culture. As it is, I can see a mini edit-war going on, since we have an all-or-nothing approach where people like Tankred insist on a long-winded list while you insist on having no list at all. As a non-Slovak and non-Hungarian, can't we all just compromise and put short lists showing both directions? As it was before, my shortened list provided a nice balance to your short list, so it wouldn't look like one side was trying to overwhelm the other. Vput ( talk) 14:48, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Tankred not even bothers to give some explanation for his revert. He never said that he will be contented with your shorter list. But the shorter list is still surplus information in the article, compromising its concision. And I don't think that I always have to take into consideration the phobias of some Slovak users who trying to prove their ethnic superiority even when they are writing about their own mother language. Is it necessary to give a list in the Geography of Slovakia article about the lowness of Hungarian mountains? Is it a good compromise to mention 2-3 Hungarian hills only for comparison? Isn't this absurd? Zello ( talk) 17:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I know what you mean, but as someone who is unable to favour Slovaks over Hungarians and vice-versa, I believe that the only way to acheive some kind of stability in this article is to make a compromise. The example with the mountains may not be the best way to think of this language dispute. As someone who doesn't come from the Carpathian Basin, I am a little turned-off by a language article that has a tag for a neutrality dispute. If I were interested in the language and its structure, I wouldn't want to be dragged into watching a bunch of nationalists arguing over whose word is whose and constantly reverting the article unless there were grave errors in explaining grammar, morphology, syntax or lexicon. The Serbo-Croatian article suffers from a similar problem but to an even greater degree as we have Serbs, Croats and Bosnians using the language's article and its talk-page to criticize each other and act out non-linguistic rivalries. The thing is that mountains change "ownership" because of political or military decisions as it's a matter of one group of people invading or laying claim to that territory. Lexicons can change less deliberately and all speakers from erudite scholars to humble farmers can incorporate new words and structures as they see fit. Thus we could argue that pasting a list showing the sheer number of Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian could be interpreted that Hungarians were somehow culturally inferior in being copycats since they had to borrow a lot of Slavonic words. The presence of geographical features such as which country has higher mountains or cleaner forests can't lead to the same conclusion about cultural sophistication. Vput ( talk) 18:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
It is possible that Hungarians in the 10th century were culturally inferior in many ways than Slavs. What does it matter? Linguistics is not a question of national pride. Anybody can add as a long list of Slavic loanwords to the Hungarian language article as possible. But the same list in the Slovak language article was only meant to prove this superiority theory and contained no information about the topic, the Slovak language itself. It is simply out of place. Comparison for the sake of comparison. Zello ( talk) 21:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately Tankred is in fact a hot-headed Slovak nationalist, who seems to believe only to the "facts" which his fellow nationalists invent. You know, it's really hard to explain to somebody outside of the Carpaths (or even outside of Slovakia) that why do some people fiercely believe in this. Sometimes I have a feeling that it's because of some popular people over here claiming to have the Hungarians civilized themselves (i.e. the Slovak people) when they came into the Carpathian Basin. Unfortunately there's no point in arguing with any of them, as they are absolutely confident in their own version of the "truth" (and sadly Tankred seems to be one of them). So the only thing that I can advise you is to stay away from his "Slavic loanwords in Hungarian" part (or just look for the mistakes and unused words to correct it ;) CoolKoon ( talk) 23:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I would appreciate if you do not resort to ad hominem attacks. Firstly, I have contributed to Wikipedia much more than two users attacking me here. I would like to recommend them to write a couple of featured and good articles instead of making personal attacks. Secondly, I did not put the list into the article, but the list is well referenced, so I am protecting it. Thirdly, this article (including the list in question) does not assume any inferiority of the Hungarian nation and I wonder why this alleged inferiority that no one sane really believes in is such a recurring topic in the comments made by some Hungarian editors. The list of loanwords from Slovak is totally appropriate to an article about the Slovak language and to a section on the relationship between the Slovak and other languages. I do not understand why a list of words loaned by Slovak is all right, but a list of words loaned from Slovak is such a hot issue. Please enlighten me. Tankred ( talk) 23:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Obviously no Hungarian user will be able to write such a list about Slovak loanwords in Rusyn and Polish. Only Slovak users can do this but somehow they are focusing only on Hungarian. I cannot imagine why. Certainly some coincidence. Tankred, could you answer the question why the English language article contains information only about the origin of the English vocabulary? I found a lot of information about foreign loanwords in English but nothing about English words in French, German etc. The same method is followed by the French language article, the German language article etc. European people speak about the origin of the vocabulary of their mother language not about their loanwords in other languages. Zello ( talk) 22:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
We have yet another foolish edit war going on. I'm starting to think that neither Hungarians nor Slovaks should be editing this section of the article as they take their languages too damned seriously. I have some fluency in both Hungarian and Slovak (among others), but neither is my ancestors' tongue so I don't care about whose language is "purer" or "better" or what not. Here is what I propose: Keep Zello's short list and pare down the long-winded list that is constantly reverted by Tankred but NO total removal of the list (Sorry, Zello). As far as I can tell, Tankred's and Bruce95Bruce's defense that it's backed by various sources (some of which seem to be reliable) is their way of evading repeated questions concerning its length and ignores the fact that some of those loanwords in Hungarian are now obsolete anyway and relevant only for those who study the history of Hungarian (itself even more removed from the purpose of this article on Slovak). Furthermore, if we take their logic to its conclusion, then ANYTHING that can be tied back to a reference (biased or not) is worthy of inclusion in this article even if its relevance is practically nil and not representative of other otherwise comparable articles (in this case, articles on English, French, German etc.) As an example, it would then be justified for someone to include sections about Slovak-language instruction in secondary schools and the motivations of Magyarization and Slovakization as they relate to that kind of language instruction. At that point, this article's quality would become even worse and turn into another place for Slovak and Hungarian nationalists/patriots to flame each other.
I will go ahead with this and consult the Hungarian etymological dictionary (MNyTESz) to see which words in the long-list are indeed from Old Slovak, if necessary add some new ones and remove those which are considered to be Slavonic (i.e. undetermined whether it came from Old Slovak / Slovenian / Serbo-Croatian etc.) instead of decisvely Slovak origin. For CoolKoon, I'll also verify the etymology of bánya since as far as I remember, that word was not borrowed from Hungarian (but I could be wrong). Vput ( talk) 18:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Could you answer why other articles contain no similar lists? Zello ( talk) 21:06, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
It is not standard to include lists of differences between closely related language varieties in Wikipedia language articles. I believe that this section has been added to this article as a nationalist polemic, rather than for its informational content. As it is rather poorly written (as is most of this article) and entirely unsourced, I believe that it should be either deleted or improved and moved to a new stub. Helikophis ( talk) 20:12, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I removed this section, and gave it its own article,
Differences between Slovak and Czech. It would be good if whoever wrote this section would move their references to that new page (preferably adding some citations as well!).
Helikophis (
talk) 22:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I would really appreciate your comment about the loanword list, which was discussed above. Your recent edits improved the quality of the whole article so your opinion could also help to decide the question. Zello ( talk) 22:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
While I don't want to get myself too involved in what is apparently an important issue to some people, I do feel that this section (as well as the "Hungarian loans in Slovak" list), is not appropriate. Articles generally do not contain long lists of vocabulary. If the list were properly wikified and more genuine encyclopedic content were added, either or both lists could possibly become content for a seperate article. This content is irregular and not very helpful. I am going to make significant changes to the "relations to other languages" section today. I may deal with this problem. If we need to do so, we can take the problem to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages, as it is likely that as that project takes shape, this article will be revised and standardized anyway. Helikophis ( talk) 16:39, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The quality of the list is only one although serious problem. I would like to see a well-referenced list containing only the Slovak loanwords not dozens of Slavic loanwords with unknown origin. But I prefer to add this imagined list to the vocabulary section of the Hungarian language article. Vocabulary lists in other articles are different: they are about the borrowed words. If somebody thinks the Slovak language article should be an exception of the general rule I will agree. But in this case somebody with expertise should write at least two similar loanword lists and create a new section under the title "Slovak loanwords in other languages". I would accept this as encyclopaedia-like content but the long, dubious Hungarian list in itself serves some other purpose, an obviously non-linguistic one. Zello ( talk) 22:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I think the total removal of vocabulary lists was a bit heavy handed. The existence of Hungarian and German loanwords in the Slovak language absolutely disappeared from the article. I would'n stick to lists but some examples and the paragraphs themselves should remain. I restored this section in a shortened form. Zello ( talk) 22:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Simple non-POV solution. Split the "Relationships to other languages" section. Remove the loanword information to another section specifically dealing with loanwords. It can include two subsections; information on loanwords from other languages into Slovak and information on words Slovak gave to other languages. -- Stacey Doljack Borsody ( talk) 17:48, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Obviously we will never hear anything about Slovak loanwords in Polish or Rusyn only in Hungarian. Everbody knows the reason behind this one-sided interest. Zello ( talk) 01:49, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Is there a single form for these two English concepts, or are there two forms? The adverb section is a bit confusing on this topic. Helikophis ( talk) 20:59, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm thinking of doing some work to get this article in conformity with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages/Template template. Is this alright with everybody? Helikophis ( talk) 15:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Whoever wrote it there, i don't think it should be at the first place - hardly ever Slovak native speaker calls "ä" "prehlaskovane a". They almost always use term "Siroke e" since "ä" in pronunciation has almost nothing to do with a. Just try to say words like "päta" (heel) you don't even say that distorted e - it is almost the same sound as e. From the grammatical and encyclopedic wiev "prehlaskovane a" is right however hardly ever Slovak native speakers call it like that. I suggest change Cunikm ( talk) 21:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
As a native Slovak speaker, I agree. "Prehlaskovane a" is not correct. I believe this incorrect name might originate from Slovak terminology for some foreign language (possibly German?). In Slovak, "ä" is called "Široké e". You are right about the pronunciation, most people do not say (much) different sound. This needs to be looked at, but I believe both of these pronunciations ("ä" as normal "e" or as distorted e) are considered correct. Not sure about that though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.197.127.131 ( talk) 14:06, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
At least in the East of Slovakia they are pronounced exactly the same, which is why the kids have literally no idea whether words are going to be spelt with "e" or "ä" until they are specifically taught lists of them at school - whereas they are able to pick up on plenty of other quite small differences (e.g. long and short "i") and spell accordingly without word-specific training. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.1.230.135 ( talk) 19:00, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
This is a quotation from the article. Er, what about Czech? APW ( talk) 11:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian use the Cyrrilic alphabet. Just need to correct that word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.151.217.138 ( talk) 15:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
The whole introduction has to change. The Slovak word for "Slavic" is slovAnsky not slovEnsky. While there is obviously a common root, words mean what they mean, not what they used to mean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.151.217.130 ( talk) 18:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I have reversed the changes that added the idea that the Slovaks refer to themselves simply as "Slavs".
For information on the differences. Slovaks refer to themselves as Slovaci, women as Slovenky, and the general adjective for them is slovensky. When they wish to refer to (what we in English speaking countries refer to as) Slavic people in general, the words they use are Slovania, Slovanky and the general adjective is slovansky. When Slovaks wish to speak about Slovenians they refer to them as Slovinci, the women Slovinky and the general adjective is slovinsky.
While all clearly have the same root, they are different words which are understood as having different meanings by the people who use them. Otherwise it would be difficult, for example, to make laws referring to overseas Slovaks and not to all Slavs living outside the borders of the republic. If the origin of the word is its "true meaning", then it would be wrong to say that "There were many slaves in the southern states of the USA before the civil war", because the people referred to were not Slavic - only that slave (otrok) has changed its meaning over time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.151.217.139 ( talk) 12:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
I know the word list is controvesial, but can we remove Slovak vinšovať, German wünschen from the list? Zelat and Priat are the normal words for wish and I have never heard vinsovat in the 7 years I've been in this country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.212.36.188 ( talk) 19:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
This article lacks list of "Pády". I mean nominative, genitive, etc.
Various languges differ in this.
slovak: http://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1d_%28jazykoveda%29
"Slovak" is not used attributively. It's either "Slovak" or "Slovakian language", but not *Slovak language. That's like "Democrat Party", which the Republicans came up with because it sounds dyslexic. kwami ( talk) 05:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Moved: So, did we get an answer from the Ľ. Štúr Institute of Linguistics? — kwami ( talk) 18:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Ľ. Štúr Institute of Linguistics is not an authority on words in the English language. IMHO using the word "Slovakian" rather than "Slovak" is generally a mark of someone who rarely speaks about the country. In books "Slovak" is far more common including as an adjective https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Slovak+language%2CSlovakian+language&year_start=1950&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CSlovak%20language%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CSlovakian%20language%3B%2Cc0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.1.230.135 ( talk) 19:07, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
The stuff in Slovak_language#Orthography about "palatalization" seems confused - firstly ť, ď, ň and ľ are listed next to the IPA values /c/, /ɟ/, /ɲ/ and /ʎ/, which are not "palatalized" consonants, but palatal consonants. Then "zelené" is transcribed as /zelʲɛnɛː/, which does give the "l" as a palatalized /l/ (rather than palatal /ʎ/). This may be distribution among dialects, they certainly aren't phonemic, but it would be good to know which is accepted as standard. - filelake shoe 13:55, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Speakers from Bratislava should not really be considered as typical examples of native speakers regarding pronunication (also not the use of Czech and German loanwords as they use a lot more.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:130:400:1660:B8E9:4398:33A6:9855 ( talk) 22:51, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
In the "verbs" section it describes "skrýť" and all it's forms as being "non-continuous" and "skrývať" as being "continuous". I am pretty sure this is a misconception. Translating skryju = I hide / skrývám = I am hiding actually seems like completely the wrong way around to me. In Czech the -vat ending from a perfective verb rather denotes a repeated action, nothing to do with continuous tenses in English, and I would guess this is the same in Slovak? - filelake shoe 23:51, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
আমার দেখা সেরা — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuhin20wiki ( talk • contribs) 18:59, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Dear IP,
you deny that the Czech–Slovak languages group would exist?( KIENGIR ( talk) 17:17, 15 February 2020 (UTC))
Can something be done about the disruptive editing that's been going on here? There have been people (or potentially a single person) removing Slovakian as an alternative term from the infobox, which makes no sense and ruins the overall consistency (the term is also mentioned and sourced in the lede, so why am I the only person reverting these edits??). Moreover, there have been attempts to remove both of those mentions, which is also bad because such changes should be justified, preferably with something more than a mere "I find it incorrect". Maybe we should skip that less common term, maybe it should be included (along with protecting the page), but the thing that's been going on is definitely fruitless. Can we settle upon one version of both the lede and the infobox? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.47.236.98 ( talk) 00:52, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
both should probably be listed under German instead of English, given their pronunciation (š) same as in German "Sport", 77.10.214.148 ( talk) 12:18, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
Recognised minority language in
It is quite unprobable Slovak is recognised minority language in Russia and Belarus. There shall be cited sources. Until that time it shall be deleted. The same as to Ukraine.
In that way, I support source for Croatia, citing official gazette. And added Romania, we shall not forget, its home to some old small Slovak minority, language legally recognized.
As to Vojvodina, please note its not the same as Serbia in general, from legal point of view. So I have installed here bi-flag, as it is in ,,Romanian language" page. Seems to be more appropriate.
I have changed dialect order. Traditional systematic order is Western, Central, Eastern, not other way round. Just like on the map in article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikipcontributor800 ( talk • contribs) 19:39, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Let this section be dispersed. It is ill-grounded. Slovak is language of its own. Yeah, a Slavic idiom, this should be declared in history and grammar section. Borrowings there are many, this should be reflected in vocabulary section, just like in case of other articles on languages- see Polish, Danish, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikipcontributor800 ( talk • contribs) 19:55, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
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I propose standardisation of sections and their order, in regard to other article on similar languages, like Croatian, Czech, Polish, Slovene, Lithuanian, Estonian, Romanian etc. See Danish language, very nice article.
I found Polish order particularly fine. I.e. History, Geographic distribution, Dialects, Phonology, Ortography, Grammar. Seems to be useful to have section on Using/Use, including official use and status, somewhere. I give my vote in favour of Literature overview (with link to literature) in article on language.
Then, I added already a section with sample text from Universal Declaration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikipcontributor800 ( talk • contribs) 18:15, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
The whole article uses the word "Slovak" (Slovak Republic, Slovak spelling etc.)
Whoever changed "slovenský jazyk" to "kokotskijazyk"... I revised it back. Some people's stupidity amazes me. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
78.99.192.80 (
talk) 08:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I am crying too Brion...
and also... who wrote that nonsense about Slovaks from the western part of the country often not being able to understand those in the east. If, as an foreigner, I have little difficulty in understanding Spisske or Vychodnarske dialects, I think that those not able to understand are really just unwilling to understand.
James
You do not know what you are talking about...It is impossible to understand many of the eastern dialects if you speak standard Slovak only - both phonetically and in terms of vocabulary. There is a special dictionary for Eastern Slovak dialects...Obviously, you did never hear true dialects, because few people are using them today. Juro 12:07, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I am crying
Removed the following non-information:
-- Brion 18:05 Aug 15, 2002 (PDT)
I know German dialects very well (although, of course, not all of them) and they do not have different declension and conjunction (they are only - to put it simply - different, often very different, degrees of vocabulary "distortions") - and generally that`s what makes the main difference between two languages and two dialects (unless there is a very different vocabulary, or a severe political separation (eg. Noth and South Korean language or, in the past, the Netherlands and Germany)).
Juro .... Waiting for a reaction by Rgrg...
And this has not much to do with mutual intelligibility, that depends mostly on similar vocabulary, then on similar phonology (or orthography for written languages), and grammar goes the last (unless you get familiar with the language, you are just guessing the part of speech values anyway). Rgrg
Another question: How "exactly" is a Language continuum defined (if there is an official definition at all)?. Above all, must there be a real "continuum"(i.e.gradual and continuous change)? Juro
There is an orphaned article in the Wikipedia, Ïanà, which is identified as a French-influenced dialect of Slovakian. As such, would it be appropriate to include a link to that article from the article on the Slovak language? I'm no linguist, so I am not sure. Kevyn 02:50, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I have a strong suspicion that Ïanà article is completely bogus. Why it is not impossible that such a language has been invented (however the date given puts it before the planned languages boom inspired by Esperanto), the sentence about existing speakers makes me highly suspicious.
Ïanà is now listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion Kevyn 22:30, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Isn't it true that in those long consonant clusters, what's really happening is that 'r' is functioning as a vowel? If that's true, we should explain it that way.
The text DOES say that (right at the beginning)... Juro 14:58, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Please, don't be "overdefensive". Many people are, especially when it comes down to a national or language feelings, but this does not belong to an encyclopedia. If there are web pages stating incorrect information, let them be. Overdefensiveness practically oozes through the whole article of Slovakia and Slovak language - the smallest hint that could be interpreted as lowering the status of Slovak(ia) is thoroughly analysed, explained, re-analysed, counterexamples are provided, just to defend Slovak(ia) from... whom? Class enemy? In my opinion, neither Slovakia nor Slovak language needs such a defence. And it is at the expense of simplicity and clarity. rado 14:10, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(1) As an example, there is a seriously looking web page ( I do not remember which one) explicitely saying that the Slovak language arose from the Czech language (from Middle Czech as far as I remember). Moreover, I have read an English language book saying that Slovak arose from Polish (2) Is the sentence wrong? - no, Is it unclear - no?, Does it correct wrong information provided by other sources? - yes -> so where's the problem ?? (most of the last changes in the article are superfluous and too dificult for non-linguists - that's what should be changed, not that sentence), (3) actually this is not the matter at hand, but since you have opened this interesting question: the Slovak language needs much more help and defense then any Slovak in Slovakia (even the linguists) can imagine nowadays - but to find that out you would have to spend several years abroad (not in Czehia) and with foreign texts to see how catastrophic the situation is reagarding ANY information on Slovakia, regarding the teaching of the Slovak language compared to any other language in Central Europe, regarding anything...but as opposed to the Slovenes, absolutely nothing happens in this field with Slovaks (no wonder in a country unable to write - in the 21st century - at least one single big bilingual English dictionary) ...[In addition, my personal estimate is that the language will not really be used anymore in 100 years (in favour of the Czech and English language), so it actually needs defense, although that has not been the problem in this particular case] Juro 02:02, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
a) The text I have mentioned is an (allegedly) official serious text. b) It still holds that the statement is correct and represents useful information, thus there is no reason for deleting it c) I understand that you do not know how terrible the situation is, I had the same opinions like you here years ago (and that's somehow typically "Slovak"), but that is simply not true. Even in the neighbouring Austria Slovak virtually does not exist, compared even to Slovenian and other small languages - not the mention knowledge about Slovak history, literature from Slovakia etc... And just do not want to know what would be written about Slovakia in this and other wikipedias if I had not contributed here virtually all the basic articles and ... some other things I cannot mention here. d) The fact that people also do not know about Lithuania etc. is a typical irrational argument - that does not change anything regarding the situation of Slovakia. I did not say Slovakia was the only country in the world with such problems. Juro 22:26, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've copied Slovak lyric to Hey, Slavs from the web [1]. It's all in ASCII; I corrected the ČŠŽ letters where I could guess them, but it needs a native speaker for other diacritics, as well as a thorough checking for correctness.
Additions to the article and/or comments are appreciated as well. Zocky 15:29, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I improved the IPA (or so I hope). As part of this, I stumbled over the fact that ď, ť, ň, ľ, which I would have expected to be palatalized based on other Slavic languages, were transcribed as fully palatal, while the descriptions in the text are more compatible with palatalized consonants. I removed this discrepancy by interpreting them all as palatalized. However, I have not heard enough spoken Slovak to be sure about this. If you are sure that I'm wrong, please edit that, but keep in mind that the Romance sounds written gn and gl in Italian are not [ɲ] and [ʎ] – instead they are [ɲj] and [ʎj]! (I should add some diacritic to the [j], but I can't find a suiting one.)
I changed the SAMPA to Kirshenbaum. The reasons for this are:
Please feel free to change this back to SAMPA, to add SAMPA, or to simply remove both – after all IPA is enough by itself!
www.slavism.net does not exist. Someone please fix the link.
David Marjanović david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at 2005/9/28 00:38 CET-summertime
I say that Romanian "păstor" would be a more likely etymology. bogdan | Talk 09:50, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
The list stems from experts. I "say" the Romanian word is derived from a Slavic word (if it means shepherd). What I mean is that external appearance is not enough for such speculations. You have to know where the word occured first, when it occured first, how it looked like historically etc. Juro 13:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I'd say it came from Latin to Romanian, in the Antiquity (Roman conquests), and then was introduced to both Slovaks and Hungarians. Remember, the Romanians (Wallachians or wlahoi or dahoi dacian origins) taught the Slovaks all about sheep herding. Slovak bryndza originates from Romanian brânzǎ! Jancikotuc 14:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think, that it is quite possible, that the word shephard = pastier/pastor may be a common "Indo-european" word - which means, it is equally good a latin as also a slovak word. I don't speak Latin/Romanian, but I speak Slovak, and we have also a verb "pásť", which means "to shepherd" and it is related to the word pastier. JH from Slovakia
i am just learning and it seems real fun
Just a question is slovak closer to russian or to serbo-croatian? - Lazar
What happened to the "trivia" section? Rmpfu89 17:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi people, i've got a feeling that descriptions for the Gerund and the Present Participle are swapped. i'm not a linguist so i cannot modify it and vouch for the correctness, but i'm a native Slovak speaker and that's quite enough.
Yes, the gerund and the present participle are the same in English (A *sleeping* man. -- A man was lying there, *sleeping*.), but NOT in Slovak. That might be the cause of this error. Jancikotuc 13:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
There is no error in that part of the article. Juro 16:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Is biele read /biɛlɛ/ or /bjɛlɛ/ or /bʲɛlɛ/? - Iopq 09:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Number 3 (but all three are the same, actually, when you try to pronounce them). Juro 17:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, the article in Wikipedia says that "pekný" and "pekní" are read in the same way. As far as I know, there IS a little difference: "ý" does not soften the consonant "n", but "í" does. The same says my grammar that I have at home. Can a native-speaker verify this? Zyx, 7 Jan 2007
There is no difference, they are and have always been proncounced the same way, thy -í is only an orthographical rule to show it is a word in plural and thus an exception from the softening "rule". The article cannot contain the whole grammar and all exceptions, otherwise it would be endless. Juro 00:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
It's interesting that nobody seems to be distracted by the fact that ɛ corresponds to slovak ä, not e. If it wouldn't, all the speakers would speak with "a terrible Hungarian accent" (since it's prevalent in Hungarian, and most of the Slovak speakers view those who have a heavy Hungarian accent to hava an awful/terrible/nasty accent). CoolKoon ( talk) 11:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The article contains the statement "The circumflex ("vokáň") exists only above the letter o. It turns the o into a diphthong (see below).". Afterward O circumflex isn't mentioned. You'd expect such a statement to be followed by an explanation detailing the role of O circumflex, its usage, the IPA representation, etc. No such luck. ???
Just to say that I've removed the reference to the German pronunciation of "ch" in ch – Scottish ch, for example in Loch Ness (like German ch in Bach, Russian х).
The Germans pronounce 'Bach' with an ach-Laut that is to say the voiceless velar fricative [x].
The German 'ch' is not the same as the Czech and Slovak 'ch'. Sladek 14:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
These are certainly not pronounced in the same way; "-ní" is /ɲi:/, but "-ný" is /ni:/, right? Sladek 15:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I see; thanks for that. Sladek 18:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovaks --> there are 5.8 mil. slovaks
but here, you said "total speakers - more than 6 mil???? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.131.152.20 ( talk) 17:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
In "Differences between the Slovak and Czech languages" somebody got emotional: "hundreds of dialects" is not very scientific. In Tyrol most villages have an a bit differing dialect OF THEIR OWN - but they are all subdialects of Tyrolian, which is considered a dialect of German. I'm sure it's the same with Slovakian dialects. Qubux 18:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I've tweaked this section somewhat. Some of the connections are wrong (e.g. Hungarian word for brain agy and isn't borrowed from Slavonic *mozga; words such as könyv/kniha, szán/sane and szóba/soba are classified as Wanderwörter and linguists argue over how they came about into the Hungarian lexicon, since similar words turn up in Turkic, Mongolic and other Slavonic languages. In any case, I've "filled in the blanks" for some of the other loanowrds.
Nevertheless, I have a suscpicion that whoever worked on this originally has a rather anti-Hungarian view and is really trying to underline that the Hungarians were truly barbaric outsiders in contrast to the sedentary and "civilized" Slavs. While no one disputes the amount of borrowing in Hungarian, is it really necessary to make such a big list? I mean we could argue that Proto-Slavs were similar to these barbaric Hungarian pagans before their conversion to Christianity and exposure to the Germanic tribes. Several Slovak loanwords in Hungarian originally entered Proto-Slavonic from Latin, Greek or an Old Germanic language.
e.g. ultimately borrowed from Latin or Greek:
- Christian -> kresťan > keresztény
- angel -> anjel > angyal
- cross -> kríž > kereszt
e.g. ultimately borrowed from Germanic:
- *kuningaz (cf. English 'king', German: könig) -> knieža > kenéz
- *Karol (cf. Charlemagne ~ "Great King") -> kráľ > király
I reason that since we're dealing with the Slovak language, why is there such a relatively substantial list of Slovak words in Hungarian? Shouldn't the emphasis in this Slovak article be on Hungarian loanwords in Slovak? (however few they are) It would make sense for this section of Slovak loanwords in Hungarian to be placed in the article about Hungarian, right? -- Vput 16:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I am Slovak and I think you're right about the attempt to show, that old hungarians were primitive barbarians. The list is too long, it doesnt belong here in this extent. Boris.
I have made changes to your changes in the respective part of the article, since you claimed that Slovak films etc. had to be dubbed into Czech for Czech children now, which had not been the case in the past. This is not quite so:
(1) Why they have to be dubbed? Czech children were not able to understand Slovak well in the period of Czechoslovakia, too, so why they have to be dubbed now and why not in the past? And how the film-makers etc. find out that the children would really not understand? - Their translating etc. activities are based on mere assumptions, not a comparative research or qualified knowledge of the past vs. present-time. I would like to stress that how people understand the other language and how they think they understand it are two different things.
(2) Some fairy tales and other kinds of media products were translated from Slovak to Czech in the past (Czechoslovakia) as well. This is not a new phenomena (albeit more spread).
Another point. You state that Czech children themselves claim that they do not understand Slovak well. Yes, but this was the case in the period Czechoslovakia, too! - If you were interested in literature on this topic (including what is listed in References), where some evidence can be found, you can contact me via icq (268-144-094). Best, Marian Sloboda - Nairam 09:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I reverted "Grammar review for "Na shledanou" and "Do videnia" by native speaker" (78.128.193.66). I am a native speaker of Czech and I'm sure that only "na shledanou" is correct (see official Slovník spisovné češtiny). Although "nashledanou" can be frequently seen, it is treated as incorrect. I don't know the codified rules of the Slovak orthography but I think this is similar in Slovak as in Czech. Maybe, both variants (do videnia/dovidenia) are correct in Slovak. -- Pajast 15:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I've tweaked this section somewhat. Some of the connections are wrong (e.g. Hungarian word for brain agy and isn't borrowed from Slavonic *mozga; words such as könyv/kniha, szán/sane and szóba/soba are classified as Wanderwörter and linguists argue over how they came about into the Hungarian lexicon, since similar words turn up in Turkic, Mongolic and other Slavonic languages. In any case, I've "filled in the blanks" for some of the other loanowrds.
Nevertheless, I have a suscpicion that whoever worked on this originally has a rather anti-Hungarian view and is really trying to underline that the Hungarians were truly barbaric outsiders in contrast to the sedentary and "civilized" Slavs. While no one disputes the amount of borrowing in Hungarian, is it really necessary to make such a big list? I mean we could argue that Proto-Slavs were similar to these barbaric Hungarian pagans before their conversion to Christianity and exposure to the Germanic tribes. Several Slovak loanwords in Hungarian originally entered Proto-Slavonic from Latin, Greek or an Old Germanic language.
e.g. ultimately borrowed from Latin or Greek:
- Christian -> kresťan > keresztény
- angel -> anjel > angyal
- cross -> kríž > kereszt
e.g. ultimately borrowed from Germanic:
- *kuningaz (cf. English 'king', German: könig) -> knieža > kenéz
- *Karol (cf. Charlemagne ~ "Great King") -> kráľ > király
I reason that since we're dealing with the Slovak language, why is there such a relatively substantial list of Slovak words in Hungarian? Shouldn't the emphasis in this Slovak article be on Hungarian loanwords in Slovak? (however few they are) It would make sense for this section of Slovak loanwords in Hungarian to be placed in the article about Hungarian, right? -- Vput 16:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Some of these are Slavic loanwords (not Slovak), but the real question is: why do you put a whole section about the Hungarian language into this article about Slovakian? I don't like to repeat myself, but you force me to. Squash Racket 04:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
ok I do not speak Slovak do not comment on it (however I just repeat what I have read from those who did, but obviously Slovak lingusts know Hungarian better that Hungarian ones), but why do you do on Hungarian, if you do not speak? Further many cited word like pasztor is form LATIN, not Slovak, is it not nonsense that Latin, English, French, German all borrowed from Slovak?? Many Hungarian translations are not correct, some have spelling mistakes. -- Vargatamas ( talk) 11:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter that the list is correct or not, more important that it is absolutely out of place here. The article is about the Slovak language not Hungarian, why anybody is so interested in the topic of Slavic loanwords in Hungarian then? This obviously belongs to the Hungarian language article. Would you put in the "mountains" section of the Geography of Slovakia article a list about how small are the hills of Hungary? Only for the comparison... Zello ( talk) 22:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
1) Slovak as name was not mentioned before 16th century, actually no written evidences before Reformation (according also to wiki articles) 2) it separated from close related Slavic languages only much later, so if no Slovak yet no loanwords could exist... 3) in Hungarian diplomas are no mention of Slovak, while there are Slavs, Croats, Wends, Poles, Czechs, Bulgars, Servians, Bosnians, Slavonians, Russians, etc. from teh earliers times and in teh Angevin period. 4) Many agriculture related words comes from Turkish (Cuman, Pecheneg, Uz, whatever, also nomads...) e.g. arpa, ökör, etc or even Persian (or Alan, Jasz-Philisteus), therewas no good sounding Slovak word for them?
-- Vargatamas ( talk) 13:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I repeat my question: what's the aim of this list here? Hungarian etimology is definitely not the topic of the article. The readers here are obviously interested in the development of Slovak language and its etimology, but instead they will find this list about Hungarian words borrowed from Slavic languages. Why? That kind of information belongs to the Hungarian language article. Zello ( talk) 14:43, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey Zello, I wouldn't waste my time here with these guys. We know what the unspoken answer is. Some of the contributors are acting like lawyers and deliberately missing the point by merely hiding behind the defense that these Hungarian words are Slavonic loanwords. They don't have the guts to answer the question about the relevance of such a long list. The fact that the full list keeps returning very quickly after being removed or even pared down (courtesy Tankred and others - Tankred is an obviously proud Slovak if you check his contribution history) leads us to believe that this section is being watched closely by some apparently insecure/touchy Slovaks. While Slovaks were dominated by Hungarians for about 1000 years, this section about allegedly Slovak loanwords in Hungarian (if we check MNyTESz, the sources for Slavonic loanwords into Hungarian were from Moravians or Slovaks to the north and Slovenes, Croats and Serbs from the south) is a way for some Slovaks to insinuate to the rest of the world that if it hadn't been for the Slovaks, the barbaric Hungarians wouldn't have known such items of civilization such as tables (asztal - stôl), crosses (kereszt - kríž) and the like. If you check the history of this page, I reduced this section a bit and made some corrections to it in the fall. My corrections remained but my reduced version was reverted back to its original length. For the record I don't have Hungarian or Slovak ancestry but can speak both Hungarian and Slovak and have friends on both sides of the border. (figure that one out :-P). Thus I have an idea of what the languages are about but the emotional ties that I have to both cultures (through my friends) are equal and I'm unable to favour either side. If we use the questionable logic of Tankred, Bruce95Bruce and others who seem to get a kick at hinting at the supposed cultural superiority of speakers of Old Slovak speakers over speakers of Old Hungarian by virtue of the mainly one-way traffic of Slavonic loanwords into Hungarian, then the Wikipedia entry on the English language would be justified in having a detailed and tedious list showing all of the English loanwords that exist in Spanish, German, Russian, Hungarian, Slovak, Japanese, Chinese etc. More to the point, these same Slovaks should then have no qualms about the Wikipedia articles on Greek, Latin or Old High German each having a detailed list showing all of the Greek, Latin or Germanic loanwords in Slovak (some of which in turn passed on into Hungarian). As I've shown earlier in this talk page, I've put down some examples of the Slovak loanwords in Hungarian being loanwords themselves from Greek, Latin or Old High German. So if we want to be a little snide, we can draw the conclusion that the Slovaks of 1000 years ago were not as high and mighty as their modern-day supporters would like to think. ( Vput ( talk) 06:57, 13 January 2008 (UTC))
I've touched up the section of Hungarian loanwords in Slovak a bit (as far as I can tell, baňa is not a borrowing of the Hungarian bánya). For the sake of balance, I've put some information about Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian with the note that their presence does not automatically mean that the Hungarians borrowed these words or concepts from Slovaks. I consulted my copy of the Hungarian etymological dictionary to ensure accuracy, but didn't want to overload this section and make another long-winded list as was the case before. Vput ( talk) 03:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I removed the examples but left in place the generalities. The examples are very useful for the Hungarian language article and I propose you to add them there. Nobody has anything against Slavic or Slovak loanwords in Hungarian, their existence is a linguistic fact, but there is no need for such kind of list here. Zello ( talk) 13:16, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I do agree that such a list of Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian makes more sense being in the article on Hungarian but I just wanted to keep things balanced (or at least demonstrate to more sensitive folk reading this article that I'm willing to show both sides of the matter). We'll see whether things here will be reverted yet again. Vput ( talk) 17:23, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Relevant discussion copied from my talkpage:
Tankred just reverted the Slovak article to include the long-winded list from before (as I strongly suspected he would do.) This sensitivity and instant revert was the main reason why I included some Slavonic loanwords in my edit. I know what you're trying to say by not going into great detail about Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian and removing my examples from the article, but I felt that my way would at least give even less justification to people like Tankred to belabour the point of Slovak's supposedly major contribution to Hungarian culture. As it is, I can see a mini edit-war going on, since we have an all-or-nothing approach where people like Tankred insist on a long-winded list while you insist on having no list at all. As a non-Slovak and non-Hungarian, can't we all just compromise and put short lists showing both directions? As it was before, my shortened list provided a nice balance to your short list, so it wouldn't look like one side was trying to overwhelm the other. Vput ( talk) 14:48, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Tankred not even bothers to give some explanation for his revert. He never said that he will be contented with your shorter list. But the shorter list is still surplus information in the article, compromising its concision. And I don't think that I always have to take into consideration the phobias of some Slovak users who trying to prove their ethnic superiority even when they are writing about their own mother language. Is it necessary to give a list in the Geography of Slovakia article about the lowness of Hungarian mountains? Is it a good compromise to mention 2-3 Hungarian hills only for comparison? Isn't this absurd? Zello ( talk) 17:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I know what you mean, but as someone who is unable to favour Slovaks over Hungarians and vice-versa, I believe that the only way to acheive some kind of stability in this article is to make a compromise. The example with the mountains may not be the best way to think of this language dispute. As someone who doesn't come from the Carpathian Basin, I am a little turned-off by a language article that has a tag for a neutrality dispute. If I were interested in the language and its structure, I wouldn't want to be dragged into watching a bunch of nationalists arguing over whose word is whose and constantly reverting the article unless there were grave errors in explaining grammar, morphology, syntax or lexicon. The Serbo-Croatian article suffers from a similar problem but to an even greater degree as we have Serbs, Croats and Bosnians using the language's article and its talk-page to criticize each other and act out non-linguistic rivalries. The thing is that mountains change "ownership" because of political or military decisions as it's a matter of one group of people invading or laying claim to that territory. Lexicons can change less deliberately and all speakers from erudite scholars to humble farmers can incorporate new words and structures as they see fit. Thus we could argue that pasting a list showing the sheer number of Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian could be interpreted that Hungarians were somehow culturally inferior in being copycats since they had to borrow a lot of Slavonic words. The presence of geographical features such as which country has higher mountains or cleaner forests can't lead to the same conclusion about cultural sophistication. Vput ( talk) 18:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
It is possible that Hungarians in the 10th century were culturally inferior in many ways than Slavs. What does it matter? Linguistics is not a question of national pride. Anybody can add as a long list of Slavic loanwords to the Hungarian language article as possible. But the same list in the Slovak language article was only meant to prove this superiority theory and contained no information about the topic, the Slovak language itself. It is simply out of place. Comparison for the sake of comparison. Zello ( talk) 21:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately Tankred is in fact a hot-headed Slovak nationalist, who seems to believe only to the "facts" which his fellow nationalists invent. You know, it's really hard to explain to somebody outside of the Carpaths (or even outside of Slovakia) that why do some people fiercely believe in this. Sometimes I have a feeling that it's because of some popular people over here claiming to have the Hungarians civilized themselves (i.e. the Slovak people) when they came into the Carpathian Basin. Unfortunately there's no point in arguing with any of them, as they are absolutely confident in their own version of the "truth" (and sadly Tankred seems to be one of them). So the only thing that I can advise you is to stay away from his "Slavic loanwords in Hungarian" part (or just look for the mistakes and unused words to correct it ;) CoolKoon ( talk) 23:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I would appreciate if you do not resort to ad hominem attacks. Firstly, I have contributed to Wikipedia much more than two users attacking me here. I would like to recommend them to write a couple of featured and good articles instead of making personal attacks. Secondly, I did not put the list into the article, but the list is well referenced, so I am protecting it. Thirdly, this article (including the list in question) does not assume any inferiority of the Hungarian nation and I wonder why this alleged inferiority that no one sane really believes in is such a recurring topic in the comments made by some Hungarian editors. The list of loanwords from Slovak is totally appropriate to an article about the Slovak language and to a section on the relationship between the Slovak and other languages. I do not understand why a list of words loaned by Slovak is all right, but a list of words loaned from Slovak is such a hot issue. Please enlighten me. Tankred ( talk) 23:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Obviously no Hungarian user will be able to write such a list about Slovak loanwords in Rusyn and Polish. Only Slovak users can do this but somehow they are focusing only on Hungarian. I cannot imagine why. Certainly some coincidence. Tankred, could you answer the question why the English language article contains information only about the origin of the English vocabulary? I found a lot of information about foreign loanwords in English but nothing about English words in French, German etc. The same method is followed by the French language article, the German language article etc. European people speak about the origin of the vocabulary of their mother language not about their loanwords in other languages. Zello ( talk) 22:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
We have yet another foolish edit war going on. I'm starting to think that neither Hungarians nor Slovaks should be editing this section of the article as they take their languages too damned seriously. I have some fluency in both Hungarian and Slovak (among others), but neither is my ancestors' tongue so I don't care about whose language is "purer" or "better" or what not. Here is what I propose: Keep Zello's short list and pare down the long-winded list that is constantly reverted by Tankred but NO total removal of the list (Sorry, Zello). As far as I can tell, Tankred's and Bruce95Bruce's defense that it's backed by various sources (some of which seem to be reliable) is their way of evading repeated questions concerning its length and ignores the fact that some of those loanwords in Hungarian are now obsolete anyway and relevant only for those who study the history of Hungarian (itself even more removed from the purpose of this article on Slovak). Furthermore, if we take their logic to its conclusion, then ANYTHING that can be tied back to a reference (biased or not) is worthy of inclusion in this article even if its relevance is practically nil and not representative of other otherwise comparable articles (in this case, articles on English, French, German etc.) As an example, it would then be justified for someone to include sections about Slovak-language instruction in secondary schools and the motivations of Magyarization and Slovakization as they relate to that kind of language instruction. At that point, this article's quality would become even worse and turn into another place for Slovak and Hungarian nationalists/patriots to flame each other.
I will go ahead with this and consult the Hungarian etymological dictionary (MNyTESz) to see which words in the long-list are indeed from Old Slovak, if necessary add some new ones and remove those which are considered to be Slavonic (i.e. undetermined whether it came from Old Slovak / Slovenian / Serbo-Croatian etc.) instead of decisvely Slovak origin. For CoolKoon, I'll also verify the etymology of bánya since as far as I remember, that word was not borrowed from Hungarian (but I could be wrong). Vput ( talk) 18:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Could you answer why other articles contain no similar lists? Zello ( talk) 21:06, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
It is not standard to include lists of differences between closely related language varieties in Wikipedia language articles. I believe that this section has been added to this article as a nationalist polemic, rather than for its informational content. As it is rather poorly written (as is most of this article) and entirely unsourced, I believe that it should be either deleted or improved and moved to a new stub. Helikophis ( talk) 20:12, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I removed this section, and gave it its own article,
Differences between Slovak and Czech. It would be good if whoever wrote this section would move their references to that new page (preferably adding some citations as well!).
Helikophis (
talk) 22:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I would really appreciate your comment about the loanword list, which was discussed above. Your recent edits improved the quality of the whole article so your opinion could also help to decide the question. Zello ( talk) 22:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
While I don't want to get myself too involved in what is apparently an important issue to some people, I do feel that this section (as well as the "Hungarian loans in Slovak" list), is not appropriate. Articles generally do not contain long lists of vocabulary. If the list were properly wikified and more genuine encyclopedic content were added, either or both lists could possibly become content for a seperate article. This content is irregular and not very helpful. I am going to make significant changes to the "relations to other languages" section today. I may deal with this problem. If we need to do so, we can take the problem to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages, as it is likely that as that project takes shape, this article will be revised and standardized anyway. Helikophis ( talk) 16:39, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The quality of the list is only one although serious problem. I would like to see a well-referenced list containing only the Slovak loanwords not dozens of Slavic loanwords with unknown origin. But I prefer to add this imagined list to the vocabulary section of the Hungarian language article. Vocabulary lists in other articles are different: they are about the borrowed words. If somebody thinks the Slovak language article should be an exception of the general rule I will agree. But in this case somebody with expertise should write at least two similar loanword lists and create a new section under the title "Slovak loanwords in other languages". I would accept this as encyclopaedia-like content but the long, dubious Hungarian list in itself serves some other purpose, an obviously non-linguistic one. Zello ( talk) 22:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I think the total removal of vocabulary lists was a bit heavy handed. The existence of Hungarian and German loanwords in the Slovak language absolutely disappeared from the article. I would'n stick to lists but some examples and the paragraphs themselves should remain. I restored this section in a shortened form. Zello ( talk) 22:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Simple non-POV solution. Split the "Relationships to other languages" section. Remove the loanword information to another section specifically dealing with loanwords. It can include two subsections; information on loanwords from other languages into Slovak and information on words Slovak gave to other languages. -- Stacey Doljack Borsody ( talk) 17:48, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Obviously we will never hear anything about Slovak loanwords in Polish or Rusyn only in Hungarian. Everbody knows the reason behind this one-sided interest. Zello ( talk) 01:49, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Is there a single form for these two English concepts, or are there two forms? The adverb section is a bit confusing on this topic. Helikophis ( talk) 20:59, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm thinking of doing some work to get this article in conformity with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages/Template template. Is this alright with everybody? Helikophis ( talk) 15:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Whoever wrote it there, i don't think it should be at the first place - hardly ever Slovak native speaker calls "ä" "prehlaskovane a". They almost always use term "Siroke e" since "ä" in pronunciation has almost nothing to do with a. Just try to say words like "päta" (heel) you don't even say that distorted e - it is almost the same sound as e. From the grammatical and encyclopedic wiev "prehlaskovane a" is right however hardly ever Slovak native speakers call it like that. I suggest change Cunikm ( talk) 21:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
As a native Slovak speaker, I agree. "Prehlaskovane a" is not correct. I believe this incorrect name might originate from Slovak terminology for some foreign language (possibly German?). In Slovak, "ä" is called "Široké e". You are right about the pronunciation, most people do not say (much) different sound. This needs to be looked at, but I believe both of these pronunciations ("ä" as normal "e" or as distorted e) are considered correct. Not sure about that though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.197.127.131 ( talk) 14:06, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
At least in the East of Slovakia they are pronounced exactly the same, which is why the kids have literally no idea whether words are going to be spelt with "e" or "ä" until they are specifically taught lists of them at school - whereas they are able to pick up on plenty of other quite small differences (e.g. long and short "i") and spell accordingly without word-specific training. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.1.230.135 ( talk) 19:00, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
This is a quotation from the article. Er, what about Czech? APW ( talk) 11:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian use the Cyrrilic alphabet. Just need to correct that word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.151.217.138 ( talk) 15:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
The whole introduction has to change. The Slovak word for "Slavic" is slovAnsky not slovEnsky. While there is obviously a common root, words mean what they mean, not what they used to mean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.151.217.130 ( talk) 18:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I have reversed the changes that added the idea that the Slovaks refer to themselves simply as "Slavs".
For information on the differences. Slovaks refer to themselves as Slovaci, women as Slovenky, and the general adjective for them is slovensky. When they wish to refer to (what we in English speaking countries refer to as) Slavic people in general, the words they use are Slovania, Slovanky and the general adjective is slovansky. When Slovaks wish to speak about Slovenians they refer to them as Slovinci, the women Slovinky and the general adjective is slovinsky.
While all clearly have the same root, they are different words which are understood as having different meanings by the people who use them. Otherwise it would be difficult, for example, to make laws referring to overseas Slovaks and not to all Slavs living outside the borders of the republic. If the origin of the word is its "true meaning", then it would be wrong to say that "There were many slaves in the southern states of the USA before the civil war", because the people referred to were not Slavic - only that slave (otrok) has changed its meaning over time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.151.217.139 ( talk) 12:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
I know the word list is controvesial, but can we remove Slovak vinšovať, German wünschen from the list? Zelat and Priat are the normal words for wish and I have never heard vinsovat in the 7 years I've been in this country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.212.36.188 ( talk) 19:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
This article lacks list of "Pády". I mean nominative, genitive, etc.
Various languges differ in this.
slovak: http://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1d_%28jazykoveda%29
"Slovak" is not used attributively. It's either "Slovak" or "Slovakian language", but not *Slovak language. That's like "Democrat Party", which the Republicans came up with because it sounds dyslexic. kwami ( talk) 05:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Moved: So, did we get an answer from the Ľ. Štúr Institute of Linguistics? — kwami ( talk) 18:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Ľ. Štúr Institute of Linguistics is not an authority on words in the English language. IMHO using the word "Slovakian" rather than "Slovak" is generally a mark of someone who rarely speaks about the country. In books "Slovak" is far more common including as an adjective https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Slovak+language%2CSlovakian+language&year_start=1950&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CSlovak%20language%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CSlovakian%20language%3B%2Cc0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.1.230.135 ( talk) 19:07, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
The stuff in Slovak_language#Orthography about "palatalization" seems confused - firstly ť, ď, ň and ľ are listed next to the IPA values /c/, /ɟ/, /ɲ/ and /ʎ/, which are not "palatalized" consonants, but palatal consonants. Then "zelené" is transcribed as /zelʲɛnɛː/, which does give the "l" as a palatalized /l/ (rather than palatal /ʎ/). This may be distribution among dialects, they certainly aren't phonemic, but it would be good to know which is accepted as standard. - filelake shoe 13:55, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Speakers from Bratislava should not really be considered as typical examples of native speakers regarding pronunication (also not the use of Czech and German loanwords as they use a lot more.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:130:400:1660:B8E9:4398:33A6:9855 ( talk) 22:51, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
In the "verbs" section it describes "skrýť" and all it's forms as being "non-continuous" and "skrývať" as being "continuous". I am pretty sure this is a misconception. Translating skryju = I hide / skrývám = I am hiding actually seems like completely the wrong way around to me. In Czech the -vat ending from a perfective verb rather denotes a repeated action, nothing to do with continuous tenses in English, and I would guess this is the same in Slovak? - filelake shoe 23:51, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
আমার দেখা সেরা — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuhin20wiki ( talk • contribs) 18:59, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Dear IP,
you deny that the Czech–Slovak languages group would exist?( KIENGIR ( talk) 17:17, 15 February 2020 (UTC))
Can something be done about the disruptive editing that's been going on here? There have been people (or potentially a single person) removing Slovakian as an alternative term from the infobox, which makes no sense and ruins the overall consistency (the term is also mentioned and sourced in the lede, so why am I the only person reverting these edits??). Moreover, there have been attempts to remove both of those mentions, which is also bad because such changes should be justified, preferably with something more than a mere "I find it incorrect". Maybe we should skip that less common term, maybe it should be included (along with protecting the page), but the thing that's been going on is definitely fruitless. Can we settle upon one version of both the lede and the infobox? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.47.236.98 ( talk) 00:52, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
both should probably be listed under German instead of English, given their pronunciation (š) same as in German "Sport", 77.10.214.148 ( talk) 12:18, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
Recognised minority language in
It is quite unprobable Slovak is recognised minority language in Russia and Belarus. There shall be cited sources. Until that time it shall be deleted. The same as to Ukraine.
In that way, I support source for Croatia, citing official gazette. And added Romania, we shall not forget, its home to some old small Slovak minority, language legally recognized.
As to Vojvodina, please note its not the same as Serbia in general, from legal point of view. So I have installed here bi-flag, as it is in ,,Romanian language" page. Seems to be more appropriate.
I have changed dialect order. Traditional systematic order is Western, Central, Eastern, not other way round. Just like on the map in article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikipcontributor800 ( talk • contribs) 19:39, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Let this section be dispersed. It is ill-grounded. Slovak is language of its own. Yeah, a Slavic idiom, this should be declared in history and grammar section. Borrowings there are many, this should be reflected in vocabulary section, just like in case of other articles on languages- see Polish, Danish, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikipcontributor800 ( talk • contribs) 19:55, 27 January 2024 (UTC)