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Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Hi! Could be discussed the change to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Sexual_orientation&oldid=929964734 ? It is, from what I think, more complete, it features the split model attraction, romantic orientation and other things.
148.69.10.241 ( talk) 11:26, 9 December 2019 (UTC)Pedro
The definition Is wrong so are the references. A lot of them don't back up what they are used for. Also the studies on sexual arousal are extreamely outdated and are to be updated which I was going to do. I Will processo to put a lot of references to back up my biology knowledge. I was asked to make a talk about It so let's talk. Biology. So. Definition: wrong biologically and Indeed It Is not confirmed by the references. SGL: cultural appropriation of black culture, also the reference says It. So I don't know why they'd do that. Sexual arousal: outdated. the methods are upgraded and proved controversial data was caused by women disliking the content while being ashamed , basically they cathegorized as materiale of sexual arousal content declared highly disliked. This proved unattendability. I'll explain more. They interpreted the vaginal congestion wrongly as sexual arousal this caused the response to not match "the sexuality declared". They said they didn't like the matherial but scientists were like "we saw Blood, She lying". No. There was more Blood in the area because of shame. Basically data misinterpretation. I was about to update the updated matherial but I have to ask. So here It Is. Also the review I'd use https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/ Francesca Carta ( talk) 21:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Freeknowledgecreator, here in detail are the problems with the content you restored:
As I said in my edit summary, it fails
WP:MEDDATE. MEDDATE says, In many topics, a review that was conducted more than five or so years ago will have been superseded by more up-to-date ones, and editors should try to find those newer sources
.
WP:RS AGE says, Especially in scientific and academic fields, older sources may be inaccurate because new information has been brought to light, new theories proposed, or vocabulary changed....In particular, newer sources are generally preferred in medicine.
The sources in the disputed paragraph are from 2006, 1995 (apparently, at least, as the ref note links to two login screens), and 1994. This compares very unfavorably to the much newer sources in the preceding paragraph.
The removed content also tells the reader nothing of added value compared to the preceding value. It begins by stating, Some research suggests that "[f]or some [people] the focus of sexual interest will shift at various points through the life span..."
This is covered right before where it says, some research indicates that some people may experience change in their sexual orientation,
and it adds the more up to date result that this is more likely for women than for men.
That first sentence of the second paragraph is redundant.
Next, it goes on about There... [was, as of 1995,]...
1995 was a quarter century ago, so how does it not mislead readers to tell them stale overviews of the literature from 1995? As for the bit about not a good predictor of past behavior and self-identity, given the developmental process common to most gay men and lesbians
, the term "sexual fluidity" is not meant to refer to people coming to understand their sexuality, but to a change in it, so this seems off topic. Does the source even mention the phrase "sexual fluidity"? Who knows? And in any case, it is far out of date.
Lastly, it states, Some studies report that "[a number of] lesbian women, and some heterosexual women as well, perceive choice as an important element in their sexual orientations."
Weasel words anyone? What studies? How many lesbians? What heterosexual women? Some of that vagueness is in the source, true, but it underscores that the source is not great. Does the source even mention "sexual fluidity"? And fluidity is not the same thing as it being a "choice" - see
this, page 11. And lastly, giving any legitimacy to the idea that sexual orientation is a choice totally fails
WP:UNDUE.
I see nothing of value in that paragraph; in fact, it is of negative value. Crossroads -talk- 05:38, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Although I won't necessarily revert it, I question edits such as this, by Crossroads. The edit summary was, "Law, politics and theology: Unverifiable, 25 years old and failing WP:MEDDATE/WP:RS AGE, and WP:UNDUE as recent sources are clear sexual orientation is a valid concept". I see no evidence that "recent sources" (a vague term, since "recent" is relative) all take a single view of sexual orientation, nor are sources necessarily correct in their conclusions simply because they could be construed as "recent". Freeknowledgecreator ( talk) 09:16, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Ok. I want gender to be erased from the definition. Reason: if a gay man can be attracted by a masculine female then homosexuality does not exist.
I noticed a lot of people complaining about this definition being homophobic.
If gender Is considered the same as sex then there's no problem..but It Is not the case.
Sorry for causing trouble. I Just want to fix this. Thank You for your patience. Francesca Carta ( talk) 21:53, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
This topic clearly strucks nome nerves, regardlees of that a scientific definition has to be correct. Even though Wikipedia states that It itself isn't a valid source, It Is clear that for non scientists people and especially teenagers It Is a science Bible. Therefore a not correct definition in here if read by a homosexual teen can clearly being up confusion in their mind. It has to be simple, correct and easy to understand. I also think It should be protect from further vandalization (pretty extensive in this article).
To the point. The definition writes "Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender." The reference 1 though states "Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attraction to men, women, or both sexes". It also talks about gender but not to define "sexual orientation". The reference 2 states "“Sexual orientation” is a term frequently used to describe a person’s romantic, emotional or sexual attraction to another person. A person attracted to another person of the same sex is said to have a homosexual orientation and may be called gay (both men and women) or lesbian. Individuals attracted to persons of the other sex are said to have a heterosexual orientation. Sexual orientation falls along a continuum and individuals who are attracted to both men and women are said to be bisexual. Sexual orientation is different from gender identity..."
While checking the scientific literature I personally did not find any source that affirms that sexual orientation can be towards a gender (current definition of it / different from sex). If someone wants to add "gender" to the definition please do back It up with proof.
At this Moment articles used as references DO NOT Say that. Yet they are used to justify the definition, problem Is someone cannot Say "the American Psychiatrist Association says this" when It isn't true. That Is defamation.
I Will proceed to make the changes and back them up with plenty of references.
Also "These categories are aspects of the more nuanced nature of sexual identity and terminology" Who ever said that. The reference does not say that. How Is this level.of vandalization even possible?
Sexual orientation which Is present in animals Is supposed to be an "aspect" of "sexual identity"? The reference clearly does not say that.
If someone wants to Say "this Is It" then certain someone has to take the paterniship of the definition and clearly state (similarly to homeopathy) that It Is not backed up by science This Is the tip of the iceberg of problems in the Page. Francesca Carta ( talk) 01:55, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
You in no way have proved me wrong. What You quoted did not in any way Say what You Say It does. You are clearly biased. Also ONE STUDY aganist ALL I have provide cannot in any way missprove my point. You Indeed have reiforced my allegation of "vandalization" by using references that do not Say what You are claiming.
Francesca Carta ( talk) 05:39, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm waiting for the others' feedback on my references. Francesca Carta ( talk) 05:40, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
I also realized that my previous response for some reason didn't get through. I'd have re-adress that.
1. It Is essential to describe sexual orientation as sex-based. If a gay man can be attracted by a masculine woman then homosexuality does not exist. Therefore claiming that It can based on gender Is homophobic. Please do wider reaserch on the "cotton ceiling" topic as You can read for yourself the whole homosexual population feels abused by allegation like "sexual orientation Is based on gender" as gender Is Nowadays recognazied as something different from sex.
Also if the use of the Word "gender" had been the biological One then no problem would have arised. But that Is not the current use of the Word. Please take the topic seriously Francesca Carta ( talk) 05:50, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
Firejuggler86 ( talk) 10:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
incompatibloexual = a person which cannot find a partner for psychological, ideological, philosophical, esthetic, cultural, practical etc reasons (it cannot be an asexual, but in some cases it can be the cause of asexuality; in most cases it has nothing to do with asexuality) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4116:62FE:7D98:D20A:8886:EE28 ( talk) 14:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Sexual Preference
A term in which redirects from Sexual Orientation. /info/en/?search=Sexual_orientation
Sexual Preference denotes from the English language as the alignment, or preference (favor? priority?) in sexual encounters.
This preference can be more widely (or properly) defined through Sexual Orientation.
It can also be presumed as a popularized term due to the book by the similar title: /info/en/?search=Sexual_Preference_(book)
It was utilized in the early 2000's as a term within conversation, and has been a topic of debate in the 2020 elections as an "offensive" term.
However, politicians have been known to utilize this term over Sexual Orientation.
Sources in YouTube videos below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYfPtEaBSAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsYGOAVqmQI
Merriam-Webster recently changed the term of Sexual Preference after a political debate in order to label the term as "offensive."
I require help in order to provide some sources to verify this dictionary linguistic change as a viable source for Wikipedia's Sexual Orientation Page.
[Sexual Preference was merged into Sexual Orientation in 2009.]
The Sexual Preference (Early 2000's Term) page is missing, and no longer redirects to the page (Modern Term) Sexual Orientation.
There's current political unrest causing old definitions labeled as offensive to be deleted despite there being historical significance for outdated terms.
(Google no longer shows any results for Sexual Preference.)
Wikipedia has a duty to denote all changes to history, including those which might be seen as offensive or inappropriate.
I have reason to believe it may be best to review edits to the Sexual Orientation page without official federal linguistic and librarian feedback as to which term should be utilized.
So if anyone knows how this information should be put into the Sexual Orientation page, please reply to me for feedback and I will add more sources into the talk page for you to go through and verify as worthy.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by AKB769 ( talk • contribs) 21:00, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you MrOllie, but this post is inquiry as how to inform 2020 users as to why the topic of Sexual Preference was merged in 2009, and not during the political elections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AKB769 ( talk • contribs) 23:43, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
While I understand the topics are merged, I cannot understand how to describe the Sexual Preference page as a need for a new page defining political debates with regards to Sexual Orientation.
If you have any information as to how this technicality works, please reply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AKB769 ( talk • contribs)
I have reason to believe it may be best to review edits to the Sexual Orientation page without official federal linguistic and librarian feedback as to which term should be utilized, that is confusing. There is no federal influence here. As for
why the topic of Sexual Preference was merged in 2009, and not during the political elections, it's because that's when the decision was made; there was no reason to wait until another time. And it was the right decision. Crossroads -talk- 02:10, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Crossroads, there is still no visible connection that I can see in the first notations of the article that properly explains why Sexual Orientation- derived from the derogatory term of Orient (Modern Oriental), is the term utilized in favor of Sexual Preference. Also need citations as to that right time statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AKB769 ( talk • contribs) 03:14, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you anon for adding the redirect information. You can correct the IP Address in the history log of the accidental nuke as my ID. -- AKB769 ( talk) 06:46, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Orientation was reverted, despite the Google search availability of bringing attention to the change of Preference to Orientation. Is there a way to bring that up front to the top of the second paragraph rather than the bottom? Or is the phrasing here meant to be locked?-- AKB769 ( talk) 11:50, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
conversation is clearly not going anywhere, do not add onto it or modify it.
|
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Okay I’m honestly a little scared to comment this because I know this topic is personal to many people but, the article says this. whereas the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is not a choice.[13][14][15] here’s the thing none of those sources ever said there was a consensus. Yes those sources do indeed say that many professionals think it’s not a choice and is influenced by many factors. However, saying there is a consensus is honestly original research. Wikipedia shouldn’t say there is a consensus unless a source directly says there is a consensus. CycoMa ( talk) 03:28, 17 August 2021 (UTC) I’m not sure about saying most medical organizations agree sexual orientation is not a choice. I assume the reason the sources don’t say there is a consensus is because many medical organizations in religious countries are anti gay. This also probably includes countries like China or India. CycoMa ( talk) 06:00, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Crossroads I can understand the whole thing about removing the page numbers tag but there was no need to change that edit regarding scientists thinking it isn’t a choice. Yes the APÁ has scientists but but none of the sources never stated on how many scientists think it isn’t. All they said was most medical organizations and mental health organizations don’t think it’s a choice. I know there is a source out there that directly says most scholars agree sexual orientation isn’t a choice. Maybe I could put it in here. CycoMa ( talk) 05:49, 29 August 2021 (UTC) Actually the source is cited in this article. CycoMa ( talk) 13:55, 29 August 2021 (UTC) Enlightenedstranger0 just to make things clear I’m not saying religious views are above scholarship. It’s common sense that scholarship is above religious views on Wikipedia. I believe you are missing my point. CycoMa ( talk) 23:04, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
Just gonna bold this comment so everyone understands. Yes sexual orientation not being a choice is a majority view and I’m not arguing against the majority view. My overall concern is that saying there is a consensus gives off a misleading impression on the matter. CycoMa ( talk) 19:53, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
Let me make this very clear. I AM NOT SAYING WE SHOULD INCLUDE FRINGE VIEWS FROM RELIGIOUS GROUPS INTO THIS ARTICLE! I made that statement very clear all caps and bolded now I’m gonna analyze the sources to help you people. CycoMa ( talk) 03:12, 8 September 2021 (UTC) I’m gonna respond with a long comment, just give me some time and I’ll be back. CycoMa ( talk) 03:49, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
Here are the sourcesOkay sense quick and easy to read comments are not gonna cut it for you guys, you leave me no choice but to make this massive comment to help you guys understand. To make things easy to understand I’m gonna call
A1, A2, and A3 are the three sources that made people think there is a consensus on the topic.
Scholars from what field exactly. Sociology? Sexology? Biology? Medicine? I don’t know the person who put this source didn’t quote it. A2 says this. Most health and mental health organizations do not view sexual orientation as a 'choice. Notice how this didn’t say they agree. Also another issue is that this source was used as a source for this sentence. Scientists do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice,[13][14][15] Here is the definition of a scientist according to Wikipedia. A scientist is a person who conducts scientific research to advance knowledge in an area of interest. Not all physicians or mental health professionals fall under the definition of scientist. Yes you can indeed be both. But they aren’t synonymous. A3 says this The reason some individuals develop a gay sexual identity has not been definitively established – nor do we yet understand the development of heterosexuality. The American Psychological Association (APA) takes the position that a variety of factors impact a person's sexuality. The most recent literature from the APA says that sexual orientation is not a choice that can be changed at will, and that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors...is shaped at an early age...[and evidence suggests] biological, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality (American Psychological Association 2010). Yes the American Psychological Association is indeed a reliable source. But, I'm not too sure saying “the most recent literature” gives an idea how mainstream an idea is not to mention the APA is not the only science organization in the world. Yes two reliable sources directly say most think this and yes sexual orientation not being a choice is obviously a large view. But saying most doesn’t give much information, most literally mean greatest in amount, quantity, or degree. when they say most do not think it is a choice do they mean 90% of them agree its not a choice, 80%, 70%, 60%, 51%? I don’t know they don’t say or give stats.
It is so annoying that you people are misunderstanding my arguments and assuming I’m trying to promote religious propaganda. What I am doing here is trying my very best to stick to a neutral perspective on the matter. Let me make things clear, I am honestly straight however I have been questioning my sexuality a bit a lot. To be honest a part of me thinks I might be bisexual and to be honest I have been experimenting with my sexuality in a way. Also I have been pro-LGBT when I was young and this was before homosexuality became fully legalized in my country. Also I’m part of one of the most pro-LGBTQ+ communities out there. Plus I’m not even religious. So in all honestly I have no reason to be anti-gay, anti-bisexual, or anti any sexual orientation. Look guys all I am asking is that we fix up this article, read through the sources to get a better idea on what they are trying to say. And maybe add more sources like statistics or something, to get a better idea on how mainstream this view is. CycoMa ( talk) 04:07, 8 September 2021 (UTC) Just in case y'all haven't seen this comment. I'm just gonna y'all into this. -sche, Crossroads, and Mathglot. CycoMa ( talk) 05:10, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
But anyway as I stated before I am not entirely sure how the statements I quoted earlier equate to there being a consensus. I’m sorry if I’m coming off as being repetitive. But, I feel like one of us is missing the context of what the sources are trying to say. Or maybe I’m not reading the sources the same way you guys are reading it. CycoMa ( talk) 12:23, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
Also me personally I don’t personally believe sexual orientation is a choice. But, I try my best to leave my opinions and beliefs to the side. CycoMa ( talk) 13:48, 8 September 2021 (UTC) Also I don't understand why you people keep saying stuff life. Do you have any sources that say it's a choice? You guys saying that makes it obvious you are all missing my point. CycoMa ( talk) 19:04, 8 September 2021 (UTC) You know what screw this conversation is going anywhere. I try my very best to be neutral and get treated like I'm some bigot. CycoMa ( talk) 19:52, 8 September 2021 (UTC) |
It is good that this was resolved, but, CycoMa, I don't think you should close a discussion this way in the future. If others have more to say, they will say it. As long as there is no disruption or violation of the talk page guidelines, all is well. Enlightenedstranger0 ( talk) 23:46, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Pepperbeast, where at WP:TALK is it acceptable for CycoMa to close a discussion he was involved in, saying, "do not add onto it or modify it"? You say my post is WP:NOTAFORUM, but it was in direct reference to this close, which I do not think was appropriate as it can lead others to think that they can no longer comment in this section. They can. Enlightenedstranger0 ( talk) 01:02, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2019 and 2 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Yangxinxin0407.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Hi! Could be discussed the change to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Sexual_orientation&oldid=929964734 ? It is, from what I think, more complete, it features the split model attraction, romantic orientation and other things.
148.69.10.241 ( talk) 11:26, 9 December 2019 (UTC)Pedro
The definition Is wrong so are the references. A lot of them don't back up what they are used for. Also the studies on sexual arousal are extreamely outdated and are to be updated which I was going to do. I Will processo to put a lot of references to back up my biology knowledge. I was asked to make a talk about It so let's talk. Biology. So. Definition: wrong biologically and Indeed It Is not confirmed by the references. SGL: cultural appropriation of black culture, also the reference says It. So I don't know why they'd do that. Sexual arousal: outdated. the methods are upgraded and proved controversial data was caused by women disliking the content while being ashamed , basically they cathegorized as materiale of sexual arousal content declared highly disliked. This proved unattendability. I'll explain more. They interpreted the vaginal congestion wrongly as sexual arousal this caused the response to not match "the sexuality declared". They said they didn't like the matherial but scientists were like "we saw Blood, She lying". No. There was more Blood in the area because of shame. Basically data misinterpretation. I was about to update the updated matherial but I have to ask. So here It Is. Also the review I'd use https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/ Francesca Carta ( talk) 21:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Freeknowledgecreator, here in detail are the problems with the content you restored:
As I said in my edit summary, it fails
WP:MEDDATE. MEDDATE says, In many topics, a review that was conducted more than five or so years ago will have been superseded by more up-to-date ones, and editors should try to find those newer sources
.
WP:RS AGE says, Especially in scientific and academic fields, older sources may be inaccurate because new information has been brought to light, new theories proposed, or vocabulary changed....In particular, newer sources are generally preferred in medicine.
The sources in the disputed paragraph are from 2006, 1995 (apparently, at least, as the ref note links to two login screens), and 1994. This compares very unfavorably to the much newer sources in the preceding paragraph.
The removed content also tells the reader nothing of added value compared to the preceding value. It begins by stating, Some research suggests that "[f]or some [people] the focus of sexual interest will shift at various points through the life span..."
This is covered right before where it says, some research indicates that some people may experience change in their sexual orientation,
and it adds the more up to date result that this is more likely for women than for men.
That first sentence of the second paragraph is redundant.
Next, it goes on about There... [was, as of 1995,]...
1995 was a quarter century ago, so how does it not mislead readers to tell them stale overviews of the literature from 1995? As for the bit about not a good predictor of past behavior and self-identity, given the developmental process common to most gay men and lesbians
, the term "sexual fluidity" is not meant to refer to people coming to understand their sexuality, but to a change in it, so this seems off topic. Does the source even mention the phrase "sexual fluidity"? Who knows? And in any case, it is far out of date.
Lastly, it states, Some studies report that "[a number of] lesbian women, and some heterosexual women as well, perceive choice as an important element in their sexual orientations."
Weasel words anyone? What studies? How many lesbians? What heterosexual women? Some of that vagueness is in the source, true, but it underscores that the source is not great. Does the source even mention "sexual fluidity"? And fluidity is not the same thing as it being a "choice" - see
this, page 11. And lastly, giving any legitimacy to the idea that sexual orientation is a choice totally fails
WP:UNDUE.
I see nothing of value in that paragraph; in fact, it is of negative value. Crossroads -talk- 05:38, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Although I won't necessarily revert it, I question edits such as this, by Crossroads. The edit summary was, "Law, politics and theology: Unverifiable, 25 years old and failing WP:MEDDATE/WP:RS AGE, and WP:UNDUE as recent sources are clear sexual orientation is a valid concept". I see no evidence that "recent sources" (a vague term, since "recent" is relative) all take a single view of sexual orientation, nor are sources necessarily correct in their conclusions simply because they could be construed as "recent". Freeknowledgecreator ( talk) 09:16, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Ok. I want gender to be erased from the definition. Reason: if a gay man can be attracted by a masculine female then homosexuality does not exist.
I noticed a lot of people complaining about this definition being homophobic.
If gender Is considered the same as sex then there's no problem..but It Is not the case.
Sorry for causing trouble. I Just want to fix this. Thank You for your patience. Francesca Carta ( talk) 21:53, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
This topic clearly strucks nome nerves, regardlees of that a scientific definition has to be correct. Even though Wikipedia states that It itself isn't a valid source, It Is clear that for non scientists people and especially teenagers It Is a science Bible. Therefore a not correct definition in here if read by a homosexual teen can clearly being up confusion in their mind. It has to be simple, correct and easy to understand. I also think It should be protect from further vandalization (pretty extensive in this article).
To the point. The definition writes "Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender." The reference 1 though states "Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attraction to men, women, or both sexes". It also talks about gender but not to define "sexual orientation". The reference 2 states "“Sexual orientation” is a term frequently used to describe a person’s romantic, emotional or sexual attraction to another person. A person attracted to another person of the same sex is said to have a homosexual orientation and may be called gay (both men and women) or lesbian. Individuals attracted to persons of the other sex are said to have a heterosexual orientation. Sexual orientation falls along a continuum and individuals who are attracted to both men and women are said to be bisexual. Sexual orientation is different from gender identity..."
While checking the scientific literature I personally did not find any source that affirms that sexual orientation can be towards a gender (current definition of it / different from sex). If someone wants to add "gender" to the definition please do back It up with proof.
At this Moment articles used as references DO NOT Say that. Yet they are used to justify the definition, problem Is someone cannot Say "the American Psychiatrist Association says this" when It isn't true. That Is defamation.
I Will proceed to make the changes and back them up with plenty of references.
Also "These categories are aspects of the more nuanced nature of sexual identity and terminology" Who ever said that. The reference does not say that. How Is this level.of vandalization even possible?
Sexual orientation which Is present in animals Is supposed to be an "aspect" of "sexual identity"? The reference clearly does not say that.
If someone wants to Say "this Is It" then certain someone has to take the paterniship of the definition and clearly state (similarly to homeopathy) that It Is not backed up by science This Is the tip of the iceberg of problems in the Page. Francesca Carta ( talk) 01:55, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
You in no way have proved me wrong. What You quoted did not in any way Say what You Say It does. You are clearly biased. Also ONE STUDY aganist ALL I have provide cannot in any way missprove my point. You Indeed have reiforced my allegation of "vandalization" by using references that do not Say what You are claiming.
Francesca Carta ( talk) 05:39, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm waiting for the others' feedback on my references. Francesca Carta ( talk) 05:40, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
I also realized that my previous response for some reason didn't get through. I'd have re-adress that.
1. It Is essential to describe sexual orientation as sex-based. If a gay man can be attracted by a masculine woman then homosexuality does not exist. Therefore claiming that It can based on gender Is homophobic. Please do wider reaserch on the "cotton ceiling" topic as You can read for yourself the whole homosexual population feels abused by allegation like "sexual orientation Is based on gender" as gender Is Nowadays recognazied as something different from sex.
Also if the use of the Word "gender" had been the biological One then no problem would have arised. But that Is not the current use of the Word. Please take the topic seriously Francesca Carta ( talk) 05:50, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
Firejuggler86 ( talk) 10:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
incompatibloexual = a person which cannot find a partner for psychological, ideological, philosophical, esthetic, cultural, practical etc reasons (it cannot be an asexual, but in some cases it can be the cause of asexuality; in most cases it has nothing to do with asexuality) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4116:62FE:7D98:D20A:8886:EE28 ( talk) 14:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Sexual Preference
A term in which redirects from Sexual Orientation. /info/en/?search=Sexual_orientation
Sexual Preference denotes from the English language as the alignment, or preference (favor? priority?) in sexual encounters.
This preference can be more widely (or properly) defined through Sexual Orientation.
It can also be presumed as a popularized term due to the book by the similar title: /info/en/?search=Sexual_Preference_(book)
It was utilized in the early 2000's as a term within conversation, and has been a topic of debate in the 2020 elections as an "offensive" term.
However, politicians have been known to utilize this term over Sexual Orientation.
Sources in YouTube videos below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYfPtEaBSAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsYGOAVqmQI
Merriam-Webster recently changed the term of Sexual Preference after a political debate in order to label the term as "offensive."
I require help in order to provide some sources to verify this dictionary linguistic change as a viable source for Wikipedia's Sexual Orientation Page.
[Sexual Preference was merged into Sexual Orientation in 2009.]
The Sexual Preference (Early 2000's Term) page is missing, and no longer redirects to the page (Modern Term) Sexual Orientation.
There's current political unrest causing old definitions labeled as offensive to be deleted despite there being historical significance for outdated terms.
(Google no longer shows any results for Sexual Preference.)
Wikipedia has a duty to denote all changes to history, including those which might be seen as offensive or inappropriate.
I have reason to believe it may be best to review edits to the Sexual Orientation page without official federal linguistic and librarian feedback as to which term should be utilized.
So if anyone knows how this information should be put into the Sexual Orientation page, please reply to me for feedback and I will add more sources into the talk page for you to go through and verify as worthy.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by AKB769 ( talk • contribs) 21:00, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you MrOllie, but this post is inquiry as how to inform 2020 users as to why the topic of Sexual Preference was merged in 2009, and not during the political elections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AKB769 ( talk • contribs) 23:43, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
While I understand the topics are merged, I cannot understand how to describe the Sexual Preference page as a need for a new page defining political debates with regards to Sexual Orientation.
If you have any information as to how this technicality works, please reply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AKB769 ( talk • contribs)
I have reason to believe it may be best to review edits to the Sexual Orientation page without official federal linguistic and librarian feedback as to which term should be utilized, that is confusing. There is no federal influence here. As for
why the topic of Sexual Preference was merged in 2009, and not during the political elections, it's because that's when the decision was made; there was no reason to wait until another time. And it was the right decision. Crossroads -talk- 02:10, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Crossroads, there is still no visible connection that I can see in the first notations of the article that properly explains why Sexual Orientation- derived from the derogatory term of Orient (Modern Oriental), is the term utilized in favor of Sexual Preference. Also need citations as to that right time statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AKB769 ( talk • contribs) 03:14, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you anon for adding the redirect information. You can correct the IP Address in the history log of the accidental nuke as my ID. -- AKB769 ( talk) 06:46, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Orientation was reverted, despite the Google search availability of bringing attention to the change of Preference to Orientation. Is there a way to bring that up front to the top of the second paragraph rather than the bottom? Or is the phrasing here meant to be locked?-- AKB769 ( talk) 11:50, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
conversation is clearly not going anywhere, do not add onto it or modify it.
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Okay I’m honestly a little scared to comment this because I know this topic is personal to many people but, the article says this. whereas the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is not a choice.[13][14][15] here’s the thing none of those sources ever said there was a consensus. Yes those sources do indeed say that many professionals think it’s not a choice and is influenced by many factors. However, saying there is a consensus is honestly original research. Wikipedia shouldn’t say there is a consensus unless a source directly says there is a consensus. CycoMa ( talk) 03:28, 17 August 2021 (UTC) I’m not sure about saying most medical organizations agree sexual orientation is not a choice. I assume the reason the sources don’t say there is a consensus is because many medical organizations in religious countries are anti gay. This also probably includes countries like China or India. CycoMa ( talk) 06:00, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Crossroads I can understand the whole thing about removing the page numbers tag but there was no need to change that edit regarding scientists thinking it isn’t a choice. Yes the APÁ has scientists but but none of the sources never stated on how many scientists think it isn’t. All they said was most medical organizations and mental health organizations don’t think it’s a choice. I know there is a source out there that directly says most scholars agree sexual orientation isn’t a choice. Maybe I could put it in here. CycoMa ( talk) 05:49, 29 August 2021 (UTC) Actually the source is cited in this article. CycoMa ( talk) 13:55, 29 August 2021 (UTC) Enlightenedstranger0 just to make things clear I’m not saying religious views are above scholarship. It’s common sense that scholarship is above religious views on Wikipedia. I believe you are missing my point. CycoMa ( talk) 23:04, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
Just gonna bold this comment so everyone understands. Yes sexual orientation not being a choice is a majority view and I’m not arguing against the majority view. My overall concern is that saying there is a consensus gives off a misleading impression on the matter. CycoMa ( talk) 19:53, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
Let me make this very clear. I AM NOT SAYING WE SHOULD INCLUDE FRINGE VIEWS FROM RELIGIOUS GROUPS INTO THIS ARTICLE! I made that statement very clear all caps and bolded now I’m gonna analyze the sources to help you people. CycoMa ( talk) 03:12, 8 September 2021 (UTC) I’m gonna respond with a long comment, just give me some time and I’ll be back. CycoMa ( talk) 03:49, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
Here are the sourcesOkay sense quick and easy to read comments are not gonna cut it for you guys, you leave me no choice but to make this massive comment to help you guys understand. To make things easy to understand I’m gonna call
A1, A2, and A3 are the three sources that made people think there is a consensus on the topic.
Scholars from what field exactly. Sociology? Sexology? Biology? Medicine? I don’t know the person who put this source didn’t quote it. A2 says this. Most health and mental health organizations do not view sexual orientation as a 'choice. Notice how this didn’t say they agree. Also another issue is that this source was used as a source for this sentence. Scientists do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice,[13][14][15] Here is the definition of a scientist according to Wikipedia. A scientist is a person who conducts scientific research to advance knowledge in an area of interest. Not all physicians or mental health professionals fall under the definition of scientist. Yes you can indeed be both. But they aren’t synonymous. A3 says this The reason some individuals develop a gay sexual identity has not been definitively established – nor do we yet understand the development of heterosexuality. The American Psychological Association (APA) takes the position that a variety of factors impact a person's sexuality. The most recent literature from the APA says that sexual orientation is not a choice that can be changed at will, and that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors...is shaped at an early age...[and evidence suggests] biological, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality (American Psychological Association 2010). Yes the American Psychological Association is indeed a reliable source. But, I'm not too sure saying “the most recent literature” gives an idea how mainstream an idea is not to mention the APA is not the only science organization in the world. Yes two reliable sources directly say most think this and yes sexual orientation not being a choice is obviously a large view. But saying most doesn’t give much information, most literally mean greatest in amount, quantity, or degree. when they say most do not think it is a choice do they mean 90% of them agree its not a choice, 80%, 70%, 60%, 51%? I don’t know they don’t say or give stats.
It is so annoying that you people are misunderstanding my arguments and assuming I’m trying to promote religious propaganda. What I am doing here is trying my very best to stick to a neutral perspective on the matter. Let me make things clear, I am honestly straight however I have been questioning my sexuality a bit a lot. To be honest a part of me thinks I might be bisexual and to be honest I have been experimenting with my sexuality in a way. Also I have been pro-LGBT when I was young and this was before homosexuality became fully legalized in my country. Also I’m part of one of the most pro-LGBTQ+ communities out there. Plus I’m not even religious. So in all honestly I have no reason to be anti-gay, anti-bisexual, or anti any sexual orientation. Look guys all I am asking is that we fix up this article, read through the sources to get a better idea on what they are trying to say. And maybe add more sources like statistics or something, to get a better idea on how mainstream this view is. CycoMa ( talk) 04:07, 8 September 2021 (UTC) Just in case y'all haven't seen this comment. I'm just gonna y'all into this. -sche, Crossroads, and Mathglot. CycoMa ( talk) 05:10, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
But anyway as I stated before I am not entirely sure how the statements I quoted earlier equate to there being a consensus. I’m sorry if I’m coming off as being repetitive. But, I feel like one of us is missing the context of what the sources are trying to say. Or maybe I’m not reading the sources the same way you guys are reading it. CycoMa ( talk) 12:23, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
Also me personally I don’t personally believe sexual orientation is a choice. But, I try my best to leave my opinions and beliefs to the side. CycoMa ( talk) 13:48, 8 September 2021 (UTC) Also I don't understand why you people keep saying stuff life. Do you have any sources that say it's a choice? You guys saying that makes it obvious you are all missing my point. CycoMa ( talk) 19:04, 8 September 2021 (UTC) You know what screw this conversation is going anywhere. I try my very best to be neutral and get treated like I'm some bigot. CycoMa ( talk) 19:52, 8 September 2021 (UTC) |
It is good that this was resolved, but, CycoMa, I don't think you should close a discussion this way in the future. If others have more to say, they will say it. As long as there is no disruption or violation of the talk page guidelines, all is well. Enlightenedstranger0 ( talk) 23:46, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Pepperbeast, where at WP:TALK is it acceptable for CycoMa to close a discussion he was involved in, saying, "do not add onto it or modify it"? You say my post is WP:NOTAFORUM, but it was in direct reference to this close, which I do not think was appropriate as it can lead others to think that they can no longer comment in this section. They can. Enlightenedstranger0 ( talk) 01:02, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2019 and 2 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Yangxinxin0407.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)