This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Does anyone have any idea why the following was cut from the article? "(The eagle is rarely displayed without the shield covering its chest.)" -- Jmabel | Talk 20:55, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)
Moved from the article:
That historic map at Image:Cpw10ct.gif needs replacement for a couple of reasons such as copyright and clarity – see its talk page. A new version under construction is at Image:Serbia - 10th Century - De Administrando Imperio.png. Note: the new image's talk page is at Wikimedia Commons, where your Wikipedia login is unknown.
The technically hard part is done – recreating the coastline, islands, and rivers. The scholarly hard part is still in progress – determining exactly what to put on the map, and where to put it. Contribute on those talk pages, please. -- Kbh3rd 18:38, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
We need to come to a consensus on captioning Image:Balkans05.jpg. A week or two back, my suggestion of simply mentioning that Republika Srpska was "generally unrecognized" was rejected. Now someone has gone in and added an accusation of "genocide" to the caption. Obviously, we have no agreement: we have one party that rejects even mentioning lack of international recognition and another who wants to wave a blood-drenched flag. I again suggest "generally unrecognized" as a compromise.
Or we could remove the map from this article. This is supposed to be an article about an ethnic group, not about political history. I realize that they cannot be completely separated but (for example) the article Jew does not deal with the disputed borders of Israel.-- Jmabel | Talk 18:49, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
I would agree to remove the map from the article for reasons that you stated and primarily because RS is a political entity and not a Serbian nation state.--
Dado 03:34, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Statement that Republika Srpska is generally unrecognised is nonsense. Republika Srpska is internationally recognised as entity (state) within Bosnia-Herzegovina. As for map, this article is about Serbs and both, Serbia and Republika Srpska are Serbian states (no matter if somebody like this or not). As for genocide claims, we could claim that genocide against Serbs was committed in half of Balkans in the last century (including the last Bosnian war). Thousands of Serbs were expelled from Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and thousands of them were killed and tortured in concentration camps in Sarajevo and other cities, which were under control of Bosniak government in the last war (but I didn’t wrote this below the map of Bosnia and Herzegovina). Dado just want to present his political anti-Serb attitude here User:PANONIAN
However, we could specify exact political statuses of both states below the map. We can write that Republika Srpska is entity within BIH and that Serbia is republic within SCG. User:PANONIAN
That would be an improvement, but I still doubt the appropriateness of the map in this article. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:28, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
RS is not internationally recognized. Its existance is stipulated through Dayton Agreement between warring parties in 1995. RS is a political entity not a state. RS is not a Serbian state but teritory where Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks are constituent nations of which latter two lay equal legal property claims to disputed teritory that was taken away from them by force. Please check sources: Dayton Peace Agreement, RS constitution, ICTY. Everything else is, to say the least, wishfull thinking missused as a factual information. By the way I cannot believe that we are having yet another discussion about this issue (see discussion page Republika Srpska). There is 0 proof that concentration camps existed in Sarajevo. In fact individials that raise such claims have never come up with viable and credible facts to prove them. On the other hand ethnic cleansing and genocide commited by RS authorities were proven beyond doubt at ICTY. I accept a fact that genocide was commited by Croatian Fascist regime over Serbian and Jewish population during WWII but it serves in no way to justify genocide and ethnic cleansing over Bosniak population in 1992-95. This is a second time that Panonian has resorted to personal attacks (quote: anti-Serb attitute) in order to discredit the factually correct information. I repeat my opinion that the map in question has no place on this article or any other article which serves to justify political propaganda of Greater Serbia.-- Dado 23:17, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
For Jmabel: Well, I do not agree with you. This map only shows two political entities, in which Serbs live as ethnic majority, and which are named after Serbs. It is only a location map, which shows where Serbs mainly live and nothing more. For example, I draw a similar map, which shows North and South Ossetia in the same way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ossetia.jpg I know that even some Serbs would not regard my map as appropriate, because there are Serbs who regard Montenegro as Serbian land too. However, I simply used census results for drawing this map, and that results claim that largest ethnic group in Montenegro are ethnic Montenegrins, not Serbs. One more thing: comparison between Republika Srpska and disputed lands of Israel is not appropriate because there is nothing disputed about Republika Srpska. Republika Srpska is internationally recognized entity within Bosnia-Herzegovina and Serbs are one of three constitutional nations of Bosnia-Herzegovina (not to mention that those Serbs didn’t come from Serbia, but they live there for hundreds of years). Problem is only that some Bosniaks do not understand these facts. User:PANONIAN
For Dado: RS is internationally recognised as a non-independent state (generally called entity). It is a state in the same way as Serbia, Texas or Bayern. And please Dado can you stop your nationalistic anti-Serb propaganda already? If there was not genocide committed against Serbs in Bosnia, can you tell me, why Bosniak leaders and generals are charged for war crimes against the Serbs? I never deny that authorities of RS committed genocide against Bosniaks, but why you want to deny undisputed fact that your own government committed genocide against the Serbs? As for your claim that I personally attacking you, can you prove that you do not have anti-Serb attitude? Everything you say and done so far prove otherwise. And please, stop this science fiction story about Greater Serbia. Your story is actually a story about unitary Islamic Bosnia-Herzegovina. Issue of Republika Srpska have nothing to do with Serbia (smaller or greater). It is issue about Serbs who live there for hundreds of years (You know that because your ancestors were probably Serbs too). User:PANONIAN
One more thing, Dado: You say that all three nations: Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats are constitutional in Republika Srpska and therefore it is not a Serbian state. Well, according to constitution of Serbia, Serbia is state of all its citizens no matter what is their nationality. However, these things does not change the fact that both oh these states (Serbia and RS) are predominantly Serbian. User:PANONIAN
There is a difference beween war crimes and genocide as well as there is a difference between killing 60 and 10000 people. Although both are crimes there is a difference and word genocide is not to be used lightly. There is a difference between idictment and convictions (see cases prosecutor vs Krsic and prosecutor vs. Brdjanin) I would recommend you to visit www.icty.org if you need more proof on what is a war crime and what is a genocide. It is true that Serbs are a majority in RS especially after the ethnic cleansing that was commited in that region but it does not make it (from legal or any other stand point) a Serbian nation state especially while there are still legal claims to the same teritory by non-Serb population. If you want to point out the presence of Serbian population in the Balkan region there are several maps that were created from census data from 1991 that would be much more appropriate to be shown in this article rather than a political map that you are trying to push through. Finally, if I understand correctly, you are calling me a Serb who is fighting for a unitary Islamic Bosnia-Herzegovina?? The depths of your POV nonsense are begining to amuse me.-- Dado 06:08, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I will repeat again: I do not claim that RS is Serbian nation state. Both, Serbia and RS are not Serbian nation states. I only say that they are predominantly Serbian states and the whole purpose of this map is to show the location where Serbian people mostly live today and to show two political entities, which are named after Serbs. If we already discuss this, then RS is more close to be Serbian nation state then Serbia, because Serbs are one of three constitutional nations of RS, while Serbs are not constitutional nation in Serbia at all, because Serbia is defined as a state of all its citizens. Second thing: Serbs were majority in the territory of present day RS before the war too. Today, population of RS is about 90% Serbian, and before the war it was something between 60% and 70% Serbian. You can claim that Bosniaks were ethnic majority in some municipalities of RS before the war, but most of the territory of present day RS had Serbian majority before that war. And fact is that Serbs were the one who lost largest portion of their ethnic territories during the Yugoslav wars and largest percent of refugees are Serbs too. So, I know that you want to present here that only your people were victims of the war, but this is completely false, because Serbs and Croats were victims of the war as much as Bosniaks are. Difference is only that Bosniak leaders had efficient propaganda machine during the war. For example, Bosniak government killed their own citizens in the massacre of Markale in Sarajevo and then claimed that Serbs done this (It is proven that this grenade couldn’t come from Serb positions). So, do not try to present your leaders as angels, because we both know that leaders of Bosniak SDA political party are Islamic fanatics who hiding behind pro-European rhetoric, but their true goal is to create unitary Islamic state, in which there would be no place for Serbs and Croats. As for ethnic maps from 1991, that maps are out of date now, and their purpose is purely historical. My intention was to show where Serbs live today. And I do not say that you are a Serb. I only said that your ancestors probably were Serbs, but that does not mean that you are Serb too. For example, anthropology claims that most of the Serbs are descendants of Illyrians. So, my ancestors probably were Illyrians, but that does not make me to be Albanian, does it? User:PANONIAN
Dado, I don't know where you get off coming to the definition for Serbs and then leaving lame comments. You know nothing about RS or Serbs, (although a very good note was you probably were one at one point), I should go and make a dispute on the Bosnian Muslim site and say the fact that they used to be Serbs and Croats but were cowards and took the easy way out, all bosnian muslims now are descendents from COWARDS that lived in the Balkans that didnt want to fight for the glory of their heritage and then were swamped up by the Turks and turned into them even though they arent so today they are all living lies, lives that they arent and were changed because of being wusses and not defending their family and turning on their own people. congratulations.
I don't know where this comment came about only too be few months late. Anyway, if you were remotly right about my heritage (which I cannot see why would that be) I don't see you putting on your resume that you (and all of us) are descendants from monkeys as "you probably were one at one point". Is is amusing to me that some are still pushing this nonsense. Živio -- Dado 20:39, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Very dumb analogy, because we are Christian, don't believe we derive from Monkeys and there is a lot of evidence to prove, this belongs on a different stub, because we are discussing Serbs, not monkeys, go add that to the monkey stub, because that could very well be where you are from, but sorry you need to learn a thing or two about christianity, very different from being monkeys or cutting peoples heads off nowadays, have a good day dado, i was just wondering, what slava did your relatives celebrate before they started wearing turbins? Oh, and to add were arent talking about speculation here, if we come from monkeys then why are there still monkeys? Only a few decided to change? I'm talking about good hard facts, you were serbian, you were christian... (christianity started before islam, was in the balkans well before islam spread there). So dont elude the whole topic, you are bitter, so you want to cause trouble on our history and information because your's is a black mark, its like you popped out onto earth when islam started, dont forget where you come from, i pity the fool...
(the previous 2 paragraphs were anonymous, 25 July 2005)
??????-- Hipi Zhdripi 00:21, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
Who claims the Serboi were first mentioned in the 1st century by Ptolemy? The first mention of them was by Plinius the Younger in the first century BC (69-75) as living on the Black sea and the Sea of Azov as Serboi in his Geographica.
We're really short on citations for populations here; could someone please add some? You are obviously getting your numbers somewhere... -- Jmabel | Talk 04:00, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
Again, Joy just added a very precise figure for 1991, but still no citation. Surely no one knew a number accurate to 6 digits off the top of his head! This came from somewhere, cite it! -- Jmabel | Talk 06:00, May 12, 2005 (UTC)
Part of the section Subgroups with Zlatiborians listed there should be removed. ( User:Ђорђе Д. Божовић 23 July 2005)
Zlatiborians should be deleted, since they're not a notable subgroup. I live in Zlatibor. All of Zlatiborians are Serbs, but they are not a separated subgroup.-- Ђорђе Д. Божовић 11:07, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
We were wondering if we could be added as a link to the main page for several reasons:
Please see our site at Rodoslovlje: Serbian Genealogical Society
User:SGS 3 Aug 2005
I added all the statistics up (plus added another 50,000 for any that may have gone missing) and got 9.9 millon, hardly close to 11 million. Please considering revising the number. (anon 6 Aug 2005)
This page has been protected for quite a while. Doesn't this violate the spirit and standards of Wikipedia? Jpers36 14:30, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
My relatives live in USA, and though several apply as "Americans" they call themselves Serbs. And no change can change the fact that they are Serbs. Look at [1] for a little more detailed info, please. It is well known that Chicago is the second mostly-populated by Serbs city everywhere. HolyRomanEmperor 10:26, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Is there a citation for 300,000 Serbs around Chicago? I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying it should be cited. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:39, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
At the risk of opening a can of worms, U.S. census estimates are notoriously low for Eurpopean nationalities. I don't know their methodology, but this seems to be pretty consistently the case. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:38, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
I used the calculator that there is almost 9,800,000 Serbs in all, if you didn't know, so please aquiesce to my request to change it (my current 14.4 Kb/s isn't sufficient) Just do the math. He also detracked 100,000 Serbs from Germany, and gave no proof (besides, I found around 597,000 in one encyclopedia at my cousin's) Look next to the 140,000 number, there is a link which leads to a 2004 USA claims in pdf. (actually, it is from 2000) but did not validate the German number. Please revert 9,2 million to over 9,8 milion and 500,000 to 600,000 HolyRomanEmperor 20:37, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
It doesn't. And I meantioned the article just for you to see. I am not contradicting it, or anything, I am just pointing out an interesting article to you (what did you think that I did?)... But the person had changed 600,000 to 500,000 without even noting in the talk page. Does that mean that I can freely deduct 500,000 Serbs from Bosnia and Herzegovina, or 1,000,000 from Serbia and Montenegro? (without someone changing it) HolyRomanEmperor 10:43, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I meantioned the article just for you to see. I am not contradicting it, or anything, I am just pointing out an interesting article to you. The person had changed 600,000 to 500,000 without even noting in the talk page. Does that mean that I can freely deduct 500,000 Serbs from Bosnia and Herzegovina, or 1,000,000 from Serbia and Montenegro? HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, this technical problem is both maiking me mad and making me seem foolish on this talk page. I will stop posting for a while, until I solve this, but that doesn't mean that I will stop reading. (you asked how could I post? simply, by pressing the + right to the "edit this page"; for it opens a completly new Edition, but continues just after the last post) HolyRomanEmperor 18:30, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Do you speak Serbo-Croatian? —Preceding unsigned comment added by HolyRomanEmperor ( talk • contribs) 9 Sept 2005
My god, that Vandal is vandlising the number .... AGAIN....
If you take free time, you will calculate those numbers yourself, you don't need to take my word. Besides, in the Georgraphical Encyclopedium of Mladen Janković it says "Serbs are a Soth Slavic people, one of the consituent peoples of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia; the number varies in cases like should we seperated the American Serbs, and should we seperate the Serbs that are considered as Yugoslavs; the highest number (if we count all these) is somewhere near 10,000,000." HolyRomanEmperor 09:20, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
I am asking 'cause I found diaspora Serb pages (on cyrilic) Could we, PLEASE, LOCK this page (after the re-edit)? HolyRomanEmperor 09:24, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
Unfortunatly, yes, I am translating. The year is 1990, although to find the publishing house, I will have to dig-in a little (the book is not currently in my hands). Although, I know one thing; the publisher is from Novi Sad. Without the Yugoslavs, he claims that there were around 5,650,000 Serbs in the world. He sistematicly seperates: 1. citizens of the Globe that consider themselves Serbs (a little over 5 and a half million; and 2. citizens of the Globe that are by many factors (dominantly, the Serb Orthodox Church and the father's lineage) Serbs (a little over 10,000,000) HolyRomanEmperor 15:15, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
The first (around 5,000,000) is the number of citiyens of the globe declaring themselves Serbs in a national cencus. The Second claims the number of Serbs in the globe bz origin, predominantly those concidering themselves Yugoslavs (around 3,750,000) and others concidering themselves Germans, Australians and Americans, mostly. Besides, the lowest numbers of Serbs in diaspora is 1,5 milion and the highest is 2,5 milion. While we have over 8 milion Serbs that are constitutional in Serbia and Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina. That last editor that changed the number of Serbs to 8-9 milion wrote that "Nikola Tesla is a Croat and nothing more... He cannot be concidered otherwise as in most encyclopedias he is concidered a Croat" He is obviously a propaganda-spreader... HolyRomanEmperor 19:04, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Does anyone have any idea why the following was cut from the article? "(The eagle is rarely displayed without the shield covering its chest.)" -- Jmabel | Talk 20:55, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)
Moved from the article:
That historic map at Image:Cpw10ct.gif needs replacement for a couple of reasons such as copyright and clarity – see its talk page. A new version under construction is at Image:Serbia - 10th Century - De Administrando Imperio.png. Note: the new image's talk page is at Wikimedia Commons, where your Wikipedia login is unknown.
The technically hard part is done – recreating the coastline, islands, and rivers. The scholarly hard part is still in progress – determining exactly what to put on the map, and where to put it. Contribute on those talk pages, please. -- Kbh3rd 18:38, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
We need to come to a consensus on captioning Image:Balkans05.jpg. A week or two back, my suggestion of simply mentioning that Republika Srpska was "generally unrecognized" was rejected. Now someone has gone in and added an accusation of "genocide" to the caption. Obviously, we have no agreement: we have one party that rejects even mentioning lack of international recognition and another who wants to wave a blood-drenched flag. I again suggest "generally unrecognized" as a compromise.
Or we could remove the map from this article. This is supposed to be an article about an ethnic group, not about political history. I realize that they cannot be completely separated but (for example) the article Jew does not deal with the disputed borders of Israel.-- Jmabel | Talk 18:49, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
I would agree to remove the map from the article for reasons that you stated and primarily because RS is a political entity and not a Serbian nation state.--
Dado 03:34, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Statement that Republika Srpska is generally unrecognised is nonsense. Republika Srpska is internationally recognised as entity (state) within Bosnia-Herzegovina. As for map, this article is about Serbs and both, Serbia and Republika Srpska are Serbian states (no matter if somebody like this or not). As for genocide claims, we could claim that genocide against Serbs was committed in half of Balkans in the last century (including the last Bosnian war). Thousands of Serbs were expelled from Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and thousands of them were killed and tortured in concentration camps in Sarajevo and other cities, which were under control of Bosniak government in the last war (but I didn’t wrote this below the map of Bosnia and Herzegovina). Dado just want to present his political anti-Serb attitude here User:PANONIAN
However, we could specify exact political statuses of both states below the map. We can write that Republika Srpska is entity within BIH and that Serbia is republic within SCG. User:PANONIAN
That would be an improvement, but I still doubt the appropriateness of the map in this article. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:28, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
RS is not internationally recognized. Its existance is stipulated through Dayton Agreement between warring parties in 1995. RS is a political entity not a state. RS is not a Serbian state but teritory where Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks are constituent nations of which latter two lay equal legal property claims to disputed teritory that was taken away from them by force. Please check sources: Dayton Peace Agreement, RS constitution, ICTY. Everything else is, to say the least, wishfull thinking missused as a factual information. By the way I cannot believe that we are having yet another discussion about this issue (see discussion page Republika Srpska). There is 0 proof that concentration camps existed in Sarajevo. In fact individials that raise such claims have never come up with viable and credible facts to prove them. On the other hand ethnic cleansing and genocide commited by RS authorities were proven beyond doubt at ICTY. I accept a fact that genocide was commited by Croatian Fascist regime over Serbian and Jewish population during WWII but it serves in no way to justify genocide and ethnic cleansing over Bosniak population in 1992-95. This is a second time that Panonian has resorted to personal attacks (quote: anti-Serb attitute) in order to discredit the factually correct information. I repeat my opinion that the map in question has no place on this article or any other article which serves to justify political propaganda of Greater Serbia.-- Dado 23:17, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
For Jmabel: Well, I do not agree with you. This map only shows two political entities, in which Serbs live as ethnic majority, and which are named after Serbs. It is only a location map, which shows where Serbs mainly live and nothing more. For example, I draw a similar map, which shows North and South Ossetia in the same way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ossetia.jpg I know that even some Serbs would not regard my map as appropriate, because there are Serbs who regard Montenegro as Serbian land too. However, I simply used census results for drawing this map, and that results claim that largest ethnic group in Montenegro are ethnic Montenegrins, not Serbs. One more thing: comparison between Republika Srpska and disputed lands of Israel is not appropriate because there is nothing disputed about Republika Srpska. Republika Srpska is internationally recognized entity within Bosnia-Herzegovina and Serbs are one of three constitutional nations of Bosnia-Herzegovina (not to mention that those Serbs didn’t come from Serbia, but they live there for hundreds of years). Problem is only that some Bosniaks do not understand these facts. User:PANONIAN
For Dado: RS is internationally recognised as a non-independent state (generally called entity). It is a state in the same way as Serbia, Texas or Bayern. And please Dado can you stop your nationalistic anti-Serb propaganda already? If there was not genocide committed against Serbs in Bosnia, can you tell me, why Bosniak leaders and generals are charged for war crimes against the Serbs? I never deny that authorities of RS committed genocide against Bosniaks, but why you want to deny undisputed fact that your own government committed genocide against the Serbs? As for your claim that I personally attacking you, can you prove that you do not have anti-Serb attitude? Everything you say and done so far prove otherwise. And please, stop this science fiction story about Greater Serbia. Your story is actually a story about unitary Islamic Bosnia-Herzegovina. Issue of Republika Srpska have nothing to do with Serbia (smaller or greater). It is issue about Serbs who live there for hundreds of years (You know that because your ancestors were probably Serbs too). User:PANONIAN
One more thing, Dado: You say that all three nations: Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats are constitutional in Republika Srpska and therefore it is not a Serbian state. Well, according to constitution of Serbia, Serbia is state of all its citizens no matter what is their nationality. However, these things does not change the fact that both oh these states (Serbia and RS) are predominantly Serbian. User:PANONIAN
There is a difference beween war crimes and genocide as well as there is a difference between killing 60 and 10000 people. Although both are crimes there is a difference and word genocide is not to be used lightly. There is a difference between idictment and convictions (see cases prosecutor vs Krsic and prosecutor vs. Brdjanin) I would recommend you to visit www.icty.org if you need more proof on what is a war crime and what is a genocide. It is true that Serbs are a majority in RS especially after the ethnic cleansing that was commited in that region but it does not make it (from legal or any other stand point) a Serbian nation state especially while there are still legal claims to the same teritory by non-Serb population. If you want to point out the presence of Serbian population in the Balkan region there are several maps that were created from census data from 1991 that would be much more appropriate to be shown in this article rather than a political map that you are trying to push through. Finally, if I understand correctly, you are calling me a Serb who is fighting for a unitary Islamic Bosnia-Herzegovina?? The depths of your POV nonsense are begining to amuse me.-- Dado 06:08, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I will repeat again: I do not claim that RS is Serbian nation state. Both, Serbia and RS are not Serbian nation states. I only say that they are predominantly Serbian states and the whole purpose of this map is to show the location where Serbian people mostly live today and to show two political entities, which are named after Serbs. If we already discuss this, then RS is more close to be Serbian nation state then Serbia, because Serbs are one of three constitutional nations of RS, while Serbs are not constitutional nation in Serbia at all, because Serbia is defined as a state of all its citizens. Second thing: Serbs were majority in the territory of present day RS before the war too. Today, population of RS is about 90% Serbian, and before the war it was something between 60% and 70% Serbian. You can claim that Bosniaks were ethnic majority in some municipalities of RS before the war, but most of the territory of present day RS had Serbian majority before that war. And fact is that Serbs were the one who lost largest portion of their ethnic territories during the Yugoslav wars and largest percent of refugees are Serbs too. So, I know that you want to present here that only your people were victims of the war, but this is completely false, because Serbs and Croats were victims of the war as much as Bosniaks are. Difference is only that Bosniak leaders had efficient propaganda machine during the war. For example, Bosniak government killed their own citizens in the massacre of Markale in Sarajevo and then claimed that Serbs done this (It is proven that this grenade couldn’t come from Serb positions). So, do not try to present your leaders as angels, because we both know that leaders of Bosniak SDA political party are Islamic fanatics who hiding behind pro-European rhetoric, but their true goal is to create unitary Islamic state, in which there would be no place for Serbs and Croats. As for ethnic maps from 1991, that maps are out of date now, and their purpose is purely historical. My intention was to show where Serbs live today. And I do not say that you are a Serb. I only said that your ancestors probably were Serbs, but that does not mean that you are Serb too. For example, anthropology claims that most of the Serbs are descendants of Illyrians. So, my ancestors probably were Illyrians, but that does not make me to be Albanian, does it? User:PANONIAN
Dado, I don't know where you get off coming to the definition for Serbs and then leaving lame comments. You know nothing about RS or Serbs, (although a very good note was you probably were one at one point), I should go and make a dispute on the Bosnian Muslim site and say the fact that they used to be Serbs and Croats but were cowards and took the easy way out, all bosnian muslims now are descendents from COWARDS that lived in the Balkans that didnt want to fight for the glory of their heritage and then were swamped up by the Turks and turned into them even though they arent so today they are all living lies, lives that they arent and were changed because of being wusses and not defending their family and turning on their own people. congratulations.
I don't know where this comment came about only too be few months late. Anyway, if you were remotly right about my heritage (which I cannot see why would that be) I don't see you putting on your resume that you (and all of us) are descendants from monkeys as "you probably were one at one point". Is is amusing to me that some are still pushing this nonsense. Živio -- Dado 20:39, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Very dumb analogy, because we are Christian, don't believe we derive from Monkeys and there is a lot of evidence to prove, this belongs on a different stub, because we are discussing Serbs, not monkeys, go add that to the monkey stub, because that could very well be where you are from, but sorry you need to learn a thing or two about christianity, very different from being monkeys or cutting peoples heads off nowadays, have a good day dado, i was just wondering, what slava did your relatives celebrate before they started wearing turbins? Oh, and to add were arent talking about speculation here, if we come from monkeys then why are there still monkeys? Only a few decided to change? I'm talking about good hard facts, you were serbian, you were christian... (christianity started before islam, was in the balkans well before islam spread there). So dont elude the whole topic, you are bitter, so you want to cause trouble on our history and information because your's is a black mark, its like you popped out onto earth when islam started, dont forget where you come from, i pity the fool...
(the previous 2 paragraphs were anonymous, 25 July 2005)
??????-- Hipi Zhdripi 00:21, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
Who claims the Serboi were first mentioned in the 1st century by Ptolemy? The first mention of them was by Plinius the Younger in the first century BC (69-75) as living on the Black sea and the Sea of Azov as Serboi in his Geographica.
We're really short on citations for populations here; could someone please add some? You are obviously getting your numbers somewhere... -- Jmabel | Talk 04:00, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
Again, Joy just added a very precise figure for 1991, but still no citation. Surely no one knew a number accurate to 6 digits off the top of his head! This came from somewhere, cite it! -- Jmabel | Talk 06:00, May 12, 2005 (UTC)
Part of the section Subgroups with Zlatiborians listed there should be removed. ( User:Ђорђе Д. Божовић 23 July 2005)
Zlatiborians should be deleted, since they're not a notable subgroup. I live in Zlatibor. All of Zlatiborians are Serbs, but they are not a separated subgroup.-- Ђорђе Д. Божовић 11:07, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
We were wondering if we could be added as a link to the main page for several reasons:
Please see our site at Rodoslovlje: Serbian Genealogical Society
User:SGS 3 Aug 2005
I added all the statistics up (plus added another 50,000 for any that may have gone missing) and got 9.9 millon, hardly close to 11 million. Please considering revising the number. (anon 6 Aug 2005)
This page has been protected for quite a while. Doesn't this violate the spirit and standards of Wikipedia? Jpers36 14:30, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
My relatives live in USA, and though several apply as "Americans" they call themselves Serbs. And no change can change the fact that they are Serbs. Look at [1] for a little more detailed info, please. It is well known that Chicago is the second mostly-populated by Serbs city everywhere. HolyRomanEmperor 10:26, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Is there a citation for 300,000 Serbs around Chicago? I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying it should be cited. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:39, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
At the risk of opening a can of worms, U.S. census estimates are notoriously low for Eurpopean nationalities. I don't know their methodology, but this seems to be pretty consistently the case. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:38, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
I used the calculator that there is almost 9,800,000 Serbs in all, if you didn't know, so please aquiesce to my request to change it (my current 14.4 Kb/s isn't sufficient) Just do the math. He also detracked 100,000 Serbs from Germany, and gave no proof (besides, I found around 597,000 in one encyclopedia at my cousin's) Look next to the 140,000 number, there is a link which leads to a 2004 USA claims in pdf. (actually, it is from 2000) but did not validate the German number. Please revert 9,2 million to over 9,8 milion and 500,000 to 600,000 HolyRomanEmperor 20:37, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
It doesn't. And I meantioned the article just for you to see. I am not contradicting it, or anything, I am just pointing out an interesting article to you (what did you think that I did?)... But the person had changed 600,000 to 500,000 without even noting in the talk page. Does that mean that I can freely deduct 500,000 Serbs from Bosnia and Herzegovina, or 1,000,000 from Serbia and Montenegro? (without someone changing it) HolyRomanEmperor 10:43, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I meantioned the article just for you to see. I am not contradicting it, or anything, I am just pointing out an interesting article to you. The person had changed 600,000 to 500,000 without even noting in the talk page. Does that mean that I can freely deduct 500,000 Serbs from Bosnia and Herzegovina, or 1,000,000 from Serbia and Montenegro? HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, this technical problem is both maiking me mad and making me seem foolish on this talk page. I will stop posting for a while, until I solve this, but that doesn't mean that I will stop reading. (you asked how could I post? simply, by pressing the + right to the "edit this page"; for it opens a completly new Edition, but continues just after the last post) HolyRomanEmperor 18:30, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Do you speak Serbo-Croatian? —Preceding unsigned comment added by HolyRomanEmperor ( talk • contribs) 9 Sept 2005
My god, that Vandal is vandlising the number .... AGAIN....
If you take free time, you will calculate those numbers yourself, you don't need to take my word. Besides, in the Georgraphical Encyclopedium of Mladen Janković it says "Serbs are a Soth Slavic people, one of the consituent peoples of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia; the number varies in cases like should we seperated the American Serbs, and should we seperate the Serbs that are considered as Yugoslavs; the highest number (if we count all these) is somewhere near 10,000,000." HolyRomanEmperor 09:20, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
I am asking 'cause I found diaspora Serb pages (on cyrilic) Could we, PLEASE, LOCK this page (after the re-edit)? HolyRomanEmperor 09:24, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
Unfortunatly, yes, I am translating. The year is 1990, although to find the publishing house, I will have to dig-in a little (the book is not currently in my hands). Although, I know one thing; the publisher is from Novi Sad. Without the Yugoslavs, he claims that there were around 5,650,000 Serbs in the world. He sistematicly seperates: 1. citizens of the Globe that consider themselves Serbs (a little over 5 and a half million; and 2. citizens of the Globe that are by many factors (dominantly, the Serb Orthodox Church and the father's lineage) Serbs (a little over 10,000,000) HolyRomanEmperor 15:15, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
The first (around 5,000,000) is the number of citiyens of the globe declaring themselves Serbs in a national cencus. The Second claims the number of Serbs in the globe bz origin, predominantly those concidering themselves Yugoslavs (around 3,750,000) and others concidering themselves Germans, Australians and Americans, mostly. Besides, the lowest numbers of Serbs in diaspora is 1,5 milion and the highest is 2,5 milion. While we have over 8 milion Serbs that are constitutional in Serbia and Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina. That last editor that changed the number of Serbs to 8-9 milion wrote that "Nikola Tesla is a Croat and nothing more... He cannot be concidered otherwise as in most encyclopedias he is concidered a Croat" He is obviously a propaganda-spreader... HolyRomanEmperor 19:04, 19 September 2005 (UTC)