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I want to suggest this page for deletion, no verse does it praise these false gods, but it condemns them one verse below:
They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allāh has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance. (Surah 53:23)
So please, i find this offensive and I am sure other muslims do too. Some1 { talk} 19:27, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
More about it here. Some1 { talk} 19:29, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
@ NEDOCHAN, The version you are pushing clearly misrepresents what Welch said. He did not say "the story in its present form is certainly a later, exegetical fabrication". Instead he said, "It is possible that this story is another example of historical telescoping, i.e. that a situation that was known by Muhammad's contemporaries to have lasted for a long period of time later came to be encapsulated in a story that restricts his acceptance of intercession through these goddesses to a brief period of time and places the responsibility for this departure from a strict monotheism on Satan. This interpretation is completely consistent with what is said above regarding Muhammad's gradual "emergence as a religious reformer" and with evidence from the Kur’an that a strict monotheism arose in stages over an extended period of time during Muhammad's Meccan years." Kaalakaa ( talk) 11:13, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi, @ Czello. I’ve explained just above that the content in the edit you reinstated does not match its source. I've invited @ NEDOCHAN to discuss the matter but he seemed to reject the invitation and asked for something unreasonable as you can see above. Could you in place of him explain why the edit you reinstated is more correct? Kaalakaa ( talk) 07:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
"Have you thought of al-Lāt and al-'Uzzá? And about the third deity, Manāt?" –Quran 53:19–20
The exact translation of this section from Arabic is 'Have you seen the God al-Lat and Al-uzza and the third one Manat.' the very contention is in the usage of the word 'God' which is often altered to 'the idols of', or other words to diminish the original narratological interpretation of text in it's direct and ordinary meaning. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:50FD:2CD8:8930:2A5B ( talk) 23:40, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Hey @ Kaalakaa, I see that you removed a significant chunk of the introduction. While I agree that there are problems with how the information is phrased (and sourced), in my opinion it is quite problematic to basically exclude the modern Islamic view of the subject matter from the introduction. If you exclude any work from contemporary Muslim scholars as failing WP:SOURCE because they are Muslim, I think we lose an entire side of a very much alive debate on such a controversial topic, and that is detrimental to this article in particular. Choucas Bleu ( T· C) 16:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Base articles on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.
An independent source is a source that has no vested interest in a given Wikipedia topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective. Independent sources have editorial independence (advertisers do not dictate content) and no conflicts of interest (there is no potential for personal, financial, or political gain to be made from the existence of the publication).
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Satanic Verses article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I want to suggest this page for deletion, no verse does it praise these false gods, but it condemns them one verse below:
They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allāh has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance. (Surah 53:23)
So please, i find this offensive and I am sure other muslims do too. Some1 { talk} 19:27, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
More about it here. Some1 { talk} 19:29, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
@ NEDOCHAN, The version you are pushing clearly misrepresents what Welch said. He did not say "the story in its present form is certainly a later, exegetical fabrication". Instead he said, "It is possible that this story is another example of historical telescoping, i.e. that a situation that was known by Muhammad's contemporaries to have lasted for a long period of time later came to be encapsulated in a story that restricts his acceptance of intercession through these goddesses to a brief period of time and places the responsibility for this departure from a strict monotheism on Satan. This interpretation is completely consistent with what is said above regarding Muhammad's gradual "emergence as a religious reformer" and with evidence from the Kur’an that a strict monotheism arose in stages over an extended period of time during Muhammad's Meccan years." Kaalakaa ( talk) 11:13, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi, @ Czello. I’ve explained just above that the content in the edit you reinstated does not match its source. I've invited @ NEDOCHAN to discuss the matter but he seemed to reject the invitation and asked for something unreasonable as you can see above. Could you in place of him explain why the edit you reinstated is more correct? Kaalakaa ( talk) 07:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
"Have you thought of al-Lāt and al-'Uzzá? And about the third deity, Manāt?" –Quran 53:19–20
The exact translation of this section from Arabic is 'Have you seen the God al-Lat and Al-uzza and the third one Manat.' the very contention is in the usage of the word 'God' which is often altered to 'the idols of', or other words to diminish the original narratological interpretation of text in it's direct and ordinary meaning. 2001:8003:2961:AD00:50FD:2CD8:8930:2A5B ( talk) 23:40, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Hey @ Kaalakaa, I see that you removed a significant chunk of the introduction. While I agree that there are problems with how the information is phrased (and sourced), in my opinion it is quite problematic to basically exclude the modern Islamic view of the subject matter from the introduction. If you exclude any work from contemporary Muslim scholars as failing WP:SOURCE because they are Muslim, I think we lose an entire side of a very much alive debate on such a controversial topic, and that is detrimental to this article in particular. Choucas Bleu ( T· C) 16:13, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Base articles on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.
An independent source is a source that has no vested interest in a given Wikipedia topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective. Independent sources have editorial independence (advertisers do not dictate content) and no conflicts of interest (there is no potential for personal, financial, or political gain to be made from the existence of the publication).