This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Russian occupation of Crimea article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 9 October 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Russian occupation of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol to Russian occupation of Crimea. The result of the discussion was moved. |
This article presents a very pro-Ukraine viewpoint, even as compared to other articles in this subject area. Examples: the use of scare quotes around "militia" or the use of phrases such as "so-called". Also, stating things like "An illegal referendum was held" as opposed to "A referendum, found to be illegal by [ ], was held" is also non-neutral. In the other articles I have read describing this, the Russian viewpoint (i.e. objecting to the label of annexation) is at least brought up. Bensci54 ( talk) 16:45, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
On the topic of "military occupation", there seems to be differing views in the academia about whether a military occupation ends once an annexation has been officiated. I.e. does the annexation override the military occupation, or does the military occupation continue even after the de jure annexation has taken place? Indeed, with regards to the territories that were first occupied by Russia in 2022, such as Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, they are still widely considered by the international community to be under military occupation, even though Russia has officially annexed them in September-October 2022. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 05:48, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
There's definitely a Ukrainian POV being presented in terms of saying that the Russian occupation+annexation of Crimea occurred "during the Russo-Ukrainian War" and has been ongoing for eight years. Indeed, from an outside perspective, the dispute over Crimea occurred separately from the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. The international community did not care about Ukraine back in February 2014, but they started to pay a lot closer attention to Ukraine in February 2022. So, from a Ukrainian perspective, the war began back in February 2014, but from a Western perspective, they came late to the party in February 2022. | A comparable situation is the Second Sino-Japanese War versus the Pacific Theatre of World War II. From a Chinese perspective, World War II began as early as 1931, with the Mukden Incident. A more conservative date would be 1937, with the Marco Polo Bridge Incident. However, the West (especially the United States) didn't really care about China up until 1941, with the Attack on Pearl Harbor. So, from a Western perspective, the war only really started in 1941, although the Chinese would agree to disagree. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 06:16, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 11:07, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. per discussion consensus and COMMONNAME ( closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 18:01, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Russian occupation of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol → Russian occupation of Crimea – Autonomous Republic of Crimea + Sevastopol = Crimea.
WP:COMMONNAME. Counting Google Books results (per WP:SET):
Supports the WP:CRITERIA of recognizability, naturalness, concision, and consistency (with Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and many other articles), without compromising precision. — Michael Z. 15:48, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
The annexation section has been a mess from the beginning: The second sentence of that section starts "Representatives of the so-called Crimean militia ... seized other administrative buildings, airports in Simferopol and Sevastopol, communications facilities, the mass media, etc. autonomy of Crimea May 25, 2014..."
Something is wrong-- the phrase "autonomy of Crimea May 25, 2014" makes no sense as part of the list of seized buildings, etc.
And having mentioned May 25, 2014, we jump back to March two sentences later.
I don't know enough to fix it, but it is clear that it needs work! Mwanner | Talk 00:55, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Russian occupation of Crimea's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "auto1":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:54, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
I propose merging the Republic of Crimea article into the Russian occupation of Crimea article. I believe the content of the "Republic of Crimea" can be seamlessly integrated into the context of the Russian occupation, without causing any issues related to article size or undue weight in the "Russian occupation of Crimea" article. When we look at other regions of Ukraine that have been annexed by Russia, such mergers are already in practice. For instance, Kherson Oblast (Russia) and Zaporizhzhia Oblast (Russia) have been merged into Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast and Russian occupation of Zaporizhzhia Oblast, respectively. Similarly, Russian occupation of Donetsk Oblast and Russian occupation of Luhansk Oblast have been merged into the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic articles. In the case of Crimea, the first type of merger is more appropriate, as the Russian occupation of Crimea article broadly covers the Russian occupation, including that of Sevastopol. Yorkporter ( talk) 22:03, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
was created by a sockpuppet: if you're concerned that the abuser will be listed as the first author of the merged article, it can be reverse-merged and then moved. Yorkporter ( talk) 22:23, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Крым не является оккупированной территорией Украины, это официально законно аннексированная территория. Статья попахивает проукраинской пропагандой и вводом в заблуждение. Авторы либо на нейтралитете, либо признаются что используют украинские источники и методы подачи информации Markus14412 ( talk) 11:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Russian occupation of Crimea article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 9 October 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Russian occupation of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol to Russian occupation of Crimea. The result of the discussion was moved. |
This article presents a very pro-Ukraine viewpoint, even as compared to other articles in this subject area. Examples: the use of scare quotes around "militia" or the use of phrases such as "so-called". Also, stating things like "An illegal referendum was held" as opposed to "A referendum, found to be illegal by [ ], was held" is also non-neutral. In the other articles I have read describing this, the Russian viewpoint (i.e. objecting to the label of annexation) is at least brought up. Bensci54 ( talk) 16:45, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
On the topic of "military occupation", there seems to be differing views in the academia about whether a military occupation ends once an annexation has been officiated. I.e. does the annexation override the military occupation, or does the military occupation continue even after the de jure annexation has taken place? Indeed, with regards to the territories that were first occupied by Russia in 2022, such as Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, they are still widely considered by the international community to be under military occupation, even though Russia has officially annexed them in September-October 2022. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 05:48, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
There's definitely a Ukrainian POV being presented in terms of saying that the Russian occupation+annexation of Crimea occurred "during the Russo-Ukrainian War" and has been ongoing for eight years. Indeed, from an outside perspective, the dispute over Crimea occurred separately from the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. The international community did not care about Ukraine back in February 2014, but they started to pay a lot closer attention to Ukraine in February 2022. So, from a Ukrainian perspective, the war began back in February 2014, but from a Western perspective, they came late to the party in February 2022. | A comparable situation is the Second Sino-Japanese War versus the Pacific Theatre of World War II. From a Chinese perspective, World War II began as early as 1931, with the Mukden Incident. A more conservative date would be 1937, with the Marco Polo Bridge Incident. However, the West (especially the United States) didn't really care about China up until 1941, with the Attack on Pearl Harbor. So, from a Western perspective, the war only really started in 1941, although the Chinese would agree to disagree. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 06:16, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 11:07, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. per discussion consensus and COMMONNAME ( closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 18:01, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Russian occupation of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol → Russian occupation of Crimea – Autonomous Republic of Crimea + Sevastopol = Crimea.
WP:COMMONNAME. Counting Google Books results (per WP:SET):
Supports the WP:CRITERIA of recognizability, naturalness, concision, and consistency (with Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and many other articles), without compromising precision. — Michael Z. 15:48, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
The annexation section has been a mess from the beginning: The second sentence of that section starts "Representatives of the so-called Crimean militia ... seized other administrative buildings, airports in Simferopol and Sevastopol, communications facilities, the mass media, etc. autonomy of Crimea May 25, 2014..."
Something is wrong-- the phrase "autonomy of Crimea May 25, 2014" makes no sense as part of the list of seized buildings, etc.
And having mentioned May 25, 2014, we jump back to March two sentences later.
I don't know enough to fix it, but it is clear that it needs work! Mwanner | Talk 00:55, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Russian occupation of Crimea's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "auto1":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:54, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
I propose merging the Republic of Crimea article into the Russian occupation of Crimea article. I believe the content of the "Republic of Crimea" can be seamlessly integrated into the context of the Russian occupation, without causing any issues related to article size or undue weight in the "Russian occupation of Crimea" article. When we look at other regions of Ukraine that have been annexed by Russia, such mergers are already in practice. For instance, Kherson Oblast (Russia) and Zaporizhzhia Oblast (Russia) have been merged into Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast and Russian occupation of Zaporizhzhia Oblast, respectively. Similarly, Russian occupation of Donetsk Oblast and Russian occupation of Luhansk Oblast have been merged into the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic articles. In the case of Crimea, the first type of merger is more appropriate, as the Russian occupation of Crimea article broadly covers the Russian occupation, including that of Sevastopol. Yorkporter ( talk) 22:03, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
was created by a sockpuppet: if you're concerned that the abuser will be listed as the first author of the merged article, it can be reverse-merged and then moved. Yorkporter ( talk) 22:23, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Крым не является оккупированной территорией Украины, это официально законно аннексированная территория. Статья попахивает проукраинской пропагандой и вводом в заблуждение. Авторы либо на нейтралитете, либо признаются что используют украинские источники и методы подачи информации Markus14412 ( talk) 11:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC)