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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Krawlinson.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 08:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I contributed the edits referring to 'saudade', the death of her favorite son and her cancer of the face. Alloco1 00:55, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Can someone tell me—what's the source of the translation of "Nasín cand' as prantas nasen"? Is it under copyright? — JerryFriedman (Talk) 01:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that the two translations included here would be better off on Wikisource, seeing as they are source materials. Also, perhaps it would be best to merely include links to translations hosted elsewhere on the internet, such as those by Louis Rodrigues, John F. Nims and Michael Smith. My impression is that editors should only provide their own translations as a last resort. Moreover, I'm not sure how this translator got you taunt me from te me amostras. The only thing I can think of is that it was intended as an extension of the meaning "to show off." Szfski ( talk) 23:56, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
No mesmo sol te me amostras... Literally, "On the very sun you reveal yourself"; but I employed the phrase, "From the very sun you taunt me," because it carries implicit the literal translation and additionally states the purpose of the revelation by harking back to the fourth line of the first stanza, "to poke fun at her." Equally important the meter of the translation is preserved which allows the English lyrics to be sung to the same tune as the Galician lyrics are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EduardoFreireCanosa ( talk • contribs) 14:40, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
You are welcome. Why "From"? Well, Rosalia is not on the sun so the sentence, "On/In the very sun you taunt me" would make little sense or be dangerously ambiguous at best. "From" conveys the right perspective: Rosalia is looking up at the sun and sees the Black Shadow instead of the bright orb. The Black Shadow taunts her from up there, from the face of the sun, by its very presence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.15.169 ( talk) 02:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Reply to Jerry Friedman: Here are several examples of the similar use of the preposition "From" by reputable publications,
"The black-clad girl taunted him from the magazine lying open on the floor" (The New Yorker).
"But Munoz stormed past him when the other man taunted him from across the road" (The Winnipeg Sun).
"As I taunted him from above, his eyes big with terror, that was my hour of triumph" (The Ludgate Illustrated Magazine).
Reply to Szfski: If somebody knows how and has the time or desire to do it, following up on your initial suggestion, the two poems could be moved to WikiSource and there let anyone insert his/her particular translation. That done, a link to WikiSource could be placed on this page. It would be a shame to lose any of this.
I too think the poems belong at Wikisource, not here.
Also, I have some doubts about the translations. For instance, why "sod"? In America the normal meaning is this, and in Britain the term is little used because it sounds like an obscenity. And is asombrar really "overshade" with no meaning of "amaze" like its Spanish cognate?
Finally, I think the informative and well-cited section on the Galician migration belongs in the section on migration of the Galicia article, with the briefest possible mention here. I'd suggest shortening the quotations and abbreviating them if necessary. Also, the writing is rather emotional; I think Wikipedia articles should let the facts speak for themselves. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 05:56, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Sod... (1) Turf. (2) One's native land. Merriam Webster's Online Dictionary. E.g. Marty Robbins: "This Peaceful Sod."
Marty Robbins: "I belong in this valley, on this peaceful sod." Only if Marty were a cow would he long to "live forever on this peaceful grass" (closing line of the song). The line makes sense if reworked as "Let me live forever on this peaceful native land" ("where my fathers have trod"). I left your contribution intact because it is not wrong per se and because I am not the sole editor of Wikipedia, everybody has the right to have his/her own say. However on my webpage I have indeed kept the term "sod." Even if "sod" sounds outdated that aspect doesn't hurt a poem which itself is more than a hundred years old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.15.169 ( talk) 02:04, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Reply to Jerry Friedman. I think it's an excellent idea, however I don't have the energy to do it myself.
Is there any reason in particular to go with these translations? Many of the choices seem rather sketchy. Here's a link, for example, that goes into the process of translation, and gets something considerably better than what is here (not to promote that particular translation). Keeping the meter so that it can be sung is a valiant goal, but if it ends up with bad English translations that undermine the tone or sound of the poem ("hem of my head pillows," "poking fun," "rumour"), it's not worth it.
At the very least, for Negra Sombra, "tornas facéndome mofa" could be "you come back again to mock me"; "gone" could be "left," "rumour" could be "murmur," And so on. User:Szfski's line (on his website he links to) "You are all and all becomes you" is much better than the current verse; "For me you live and in me you dwell," is what I might use instead of the current line, which is awkward; "Never to abandon me" could be next, and the last line would much better, as mentioned in the note, with "shades" instead of "haunts" because of the repetition of sound.
Anyways, I'm no expert, certainly neither in translation nor in gallego, but since the source of the translation is just some guy, not anyone particularly notable with regard to translation, I don't see any reason to stick perfectly to what is there. So I'm changing a few lines to what I think work better(being bold and all that) --feel free to add on/change/improve as you see fit.
zafiroblue05 | Talk 07:12, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
BTW: here's a translation of "Adiós ríos, adios fontes," keeping the rhyme scheme. Again, I'm not sure if maintaining this sort of strictness is worth awkwardness of phrase, but it's an attempt, and, for what it's worth, I think it's better than what's on the page right now.
zafiroblue05 | Talk 09:20, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Reply. That's a fine way to wreck Rosalia's poetry. Nevertheless you are as entitled to write your own translation as I was. Still I do reserve the right to erase my contribution completely. Please write your own version of "Black Shadow" if you want to and link to your webpage or put your name to it. 68.179.15.169 ( talk) 01:31, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
That was exactly my point. There's no reason to have amateur translations on the main page, me or you or anyone. The above version shows what happens when you translate so that it scans line by line equally with the same meaning, keeps the meter, and the rhyme as well. There was just an outside link and it seemed at first that the translation was official in some regard. zafiroblue05 | Talk 04:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Reply. Okay, the two appendices are gone. 68.179.15.169 ( talk) 13:28, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
On another note: since the translations linked to in the external links section are by me, and I'm the one who put the links there, it raises conflict of interest issues as per WP: Conflict of Interest. So I'll ask: do you all think the links are worth keeping?
Szfski (
talk) 04:47, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Rosalia writes in Galician language and also in Spanish, but her contribution to the Spanish speaking poetry and tales is so high and important; I can't understand why you forget the sad an deep "En las orillas del Sar" or "El caballero de las botas azules". Only a poor nationalism can forget this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.156.128.81 ( talk) 00:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Rosalía de Castro/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → | ||
---|---|---|---|
Translation of another poem by Rosalía de Castro from her work "Cantares Gallegos" by Eduardo Freire Canosa
|
Last edited at 20:53, 21 April 2013 (UTC). Substituted at 04:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 17, 2012, May 17, 2013, and May 17, 2016. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Krawlinson.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 08:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I contributed the edits referring to 'saudade', the death of her favorite son and her cancer of the face. Alloco1 00:55, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Can someone tell me—what's the source of the translation of "Nasín cand' as prantas nasen"? Is it under copyright? — JerryFriedman (Talk) 01:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that the two translations included here would be better off on Wikisource, seeing as they are source materials. Also, perhaps it would be best to merely include links to translations hosted elsewhere on the internet, such as those by Louis Rodrigues, John F. Nims and Michael Smith. My impression is that editors should only provide their own translations as a last resort. Moreover, I'm not sure how this translator got you taunt me from te me amostras. The only thing I can think of is that it was intended as an extension of the meaning "to show off." Szfski ( talk) 23:56, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
No mesmo sol te me amostras... Literally, "On the very sun you reveal yourself"; but I employed the phrase, "From the very sun you taunt me," because it carries implicit the literal translation and additionally states the purpose of the revelation by harking back to the fourth line of the first stanza, "to poke fun at her." Equally important the meter of the translation is preserved which allows the English lyrics to be sung to the same tune as the Galician lyrics are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EduardoFreireCanosa ( talk • contribs) 14:40, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
You are welcome. Why "From"? Well, Rosalia is not on the sun so the sentence, "On/In the very sun you taunt me" would make little sense or be dangerously ambiguous at best. "From" conveys the right perspective: Rosalia is looking up at the sun and sees the Black Shadow instead of the bright orb. The Black Shadow taunts her from up there, from the face of the sun, by its very presence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.15.169 ( talk) 02:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Reply to Jerry Friedman: Here are several examples of the similar use of the preposition "From" by reputable publications,
"The black-clad girl taunted him from the magazine lying open on the floor" (The New Yorker).
"But Munoz stormed past him when the other man taunted him from across the road" (The Winnipeg Sun).
"As I taunted him from above, his eyes big with terror, that was my hour of triumph" (The Ludgate Illustrated Magazine).
Reply to Szfski: If somebody knows how and has the time or desire to do it, following up on your initial suggestion, the two poems could be moved to WikiSource and there let anyone insert his/her particular translation. That done, a link to WikiSource could be placed on this page. It would be a shame to lose any of this.
I too think the poems belong at Wikisource, not here.
Also, I have some doubts about the translations. For instance, why "sod"? In America the normal meaning is this, and in Britain the term is little used because it sounds like an obscenity. And is asombrar really "overshade" with no meaning of "amaze" like its Spanish cognate?
Finally, I think the informative and well-cited section on the Galician migration belongs in the section on migration of the Galicia article, with the briefest possible mention here. I'd suggest shortening the quotations and abbreviating them if necessary. Also, the writing is rather emotional; I think Wikipedia articles should let the facts speak for themselves. — JerryFriedman (Talk) 05:56, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Sod... (1) Turf. (2) One's native land. Merriam Webster's Online Dictionary. E.g. Marty Robbins: "This Peaceful Sod."
Marty Robbins: "I belong in this valley, on this peaceful sod." Only if Marty were a cow would he long to "live forever on this peaceful grass" (closing line of the song). The line makes sense if reworked as "Let me live forever on this peaceful native land" ("where my fathers have trod"). I left your contribution intact because it is not wrong per se and because I am not the sole editor of Wikipedia, everybody has the right to have his/her own say. However on my webpage I have indeed kept the term "sod." Even if "sod" sounds outdated that aspect doesn't hurt a poem which itself is more than a hundred years old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.15.169 ( talk) 02:04, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Reply to Jerry Friedman. I think it's an excellent idea, however I don't have the energy to do it myself.
Is there any reason in particular to go with these translations? Many of the choices seem rather sketchy. Here's a link, for example, that goes into the process of translation, and gets something considerably better than what is here (not to promote that particular translation). Keeping the meter so that it can be sung is a valiant goal, but if it ends up with bad English translations that undermine the tone or sound of the poem ("hem of my head pillows," "poking fun," "rumour"), it's not worth it.
At the very least, for Negra Sombra, "tornas facéndome mofa" could be "you come back again to mock me"; "gone" could be "left," "rumour" could be "murmur," And so on. User:Szfski's line (on his website he links to) "You are all and all becomes you" is much better than the current verse; "For me you live and in me you dwell," is what I might use instead of the current line, which is awkward; "Never to abandon me" could be next, and the last line would much better, as mentioned in the note, with "shades" instead of "haunts" because of the repetition of sound.
Anyways, I'm no expert, certainly neither in translation nor in gallego, but since the source of the translation is just some guy, not anyone particularly notable with regard to translation, I don't see any reason to stick perfectly to what is there. So I'm changing a few lines to what I think work better(being bold and all that) --feel free to add on/change/improve as you see fit.
zafiroblue05 | Talk 07:12, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
BTW: here's a translation of "Adiós ríos, adios fontes," keeping the rhyme scheme. Again, I'm not sure if maintaining this sort of strictness is worth awkwardness of phrase, but it's an attempt, and, for what it's worth, I think it's better than what's on the page right now.
zafiroblue05 | Talk 09:20, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Reply. That's a fine way to wreck Rosalia's poetry. Nevertheless you are as entitled to write your own translation as I was. Still I do reserve the right to erase my contribution completely. Please write your own version of "Black Shadow" if you want to and link to your webpage or put your name to it. 68.179.15.169 ( talk) 01:31, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
That was exactly my point. There's no reason to have amateur translations on the main page, me or you or anyone. The above version shows what happens when you translate so that it scans line by line equally with the same meaning, keeps the meter, and the rhyme as well. There was just an outside link and it seemed at first that the translation was official in some regard. zafiroblue05 | Talk 04:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Reply. Okay, the two appendices are gone. 68.179.15.169 ( talk) 13:28, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
On another note: since the translations linked to in the external links section are by me, and I'm the one who put the links there, it raises conflict of interest issues as per WP: Conflict of Interest. So I'll ask: do you all think the links are worth keeping?
Szfski (
talk) 04:47, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Rosalia writes in Galician language and also in Spanish, but her contribution to the Spanish speaking poetry and tales is so high and important; I can't understand why you forget the sad an deep "En las orillas del Sar" or "El caballero de las botas azules". Only a poor nationalism can forget this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.156.128.81 ( talk) 00:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Rosalía de Castro/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → | ||
---|---|---|---|
Translation of another poem by Rosalía de Castro from her work "Cantares Gallegos" by Eduardo Freire Canosa
|
Last edited at 20:53, 21 April 2013 (UTC). Substituted at 04:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)