I read, Middayexpress, on your contributions that you are a kind of "specialist" in Somalian topics on en.wikipedia, and I respect your continuous commitment. But I understand even that you are a moslem and you seem to want to "erase" the catholic presence in Somalia even in en.wikipedia. I, as a catholic, feel a bit upset by your denial of catholicism in Somalia. I have added references and you quickly erased those evidences....why? They are not OR. The sentences added can be found here, just before the "after slavery" section. I am sorry, but this is en. wikipedia and I am ready to start a complaint procedure if you revert again.-- LittleTony ( talk) 02:26, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
moved from LittleTony's talkpage:
Kindly stop adding original research to the Roman Catholicism in Somalia article. You claim the following:
Catholicism was introduced in the part of Somalia that was called Italian Somalia in the late 1800s. The other areas with Somalian people (namely former British Somaliland, French Somaliland, Ethiopian Ogaden and Kenya north-eastern provinces) practically had no catholic presence.
Initially catholicism was practiced only by the few Italian colonists in Mogadishu and the Shebelle river farmer areas. But after WWI many Somalians become catholics: most of them were former black slaves, called Somali Bantu, in the Villaggio Duca degli Abruzzi and Genale plantations.
In 1895, the first 45 slaves were freed by the Italian colonial authority under the administration of the chartered catholic company "Filonardi" and converted to catholicism. Massive emancipation and conversion of slaves in Somalia only began after the antislavery activist father Robecchi Bricchetti informed the Italian public about the slave trade in Somalia and the indifferent attitude of the Italian colonial government toward the trade.
You've indicated that this source supports your edit, even though that source does not even once mention Catholicism. In fact, the last paragraph you paraphrased actually reads as follows:
In 1895, the first 45 slaves were freed by the Italian colonial authority under the administration of the chartered company, V. Filonardi. Massive emancipation of slaves in Somalia only began after the antislavery activist Robecchi Bricchetti informed the Italian public about the slave trade in Somalia and the indifferent attitude of the Italian colonial government toward the trade. Slavery in southern Somalia lasted until early into the 20th century when it was abolished by the Italian colonial authority in accordance with the Belgium protocol. Some inland groups remained in slavery until the 1930s, however.
As can be seen above, it's all about the slave trade, not Catholicism. That is both off-topic & original research (OR) on your part, and OR is not permitted on Wikipedia. Again, please desist with this disruptive behavior. Middayexpress ( talk) 05:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
You, Middayexpress, repeat and repeat and repeat the same things in a byzantine way. Please stop reverting. I am NOT inserting false material. Here it is why:
Finally, where and what are your sources? Please, for the last time, do not revert repeating the same contemporary moslem POVs that the "Catholicism never managed to penetrate the Somali community". This is propaganda not accepted in Wikipedia. Reliable sources demonstrate that there was a penetration in the 1930s, even if small.-- LittleTony ( talk) 04:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
"The Bishop of Mogadishu, Franco Filippini, declared in 1940 that there were about 40,000 Somali Catholics due to the work of missionaries in the rural regions of Juba and Shebelle, but WWII damaged in an irreversibly way most of the catholic missions in Italian Somalia." [1]
"While upholding the perception of Somalis as distinct from and superior to the European construct of "black Africans", both British and Italian colonial administrators placed the Jubba valley population in the latter category. Colonial discourse described the Jubba valley as occupied by a distinct group of inferior races, collectively identified as the WaGosha by the British and the WaGoscia by the Italians. Colonial authorities administratively distinguished the Gosha as an inferior social category, delineating a separate Gosha political district called Goshaland, and proposing a "native reserve" for the Gosha.
"a colonial census of Italian Somalia (which would obviously not have included the population of British Somaliland) in 1935 concluded that 6.2% of the population was "Negroid groups" a figure which is not far off the estimate given above. See Istituto centrale di statistica, VII censimento generale della populazione V".
"In Italian Somaliland, which contains about 250,000 Mohammedans and about 50,000 pagans, there are apparently no Christian missions."
"Properly speaking there is no Chrisitianity in Somaliland. The few Christians, perhaps one or two hundred, that can actually be counted, have come from schools and orphanages of the Catholic missions of Aden, Jibuti and of Berbera. As Somaliland is divided into three zones of influence, French, English, and Italian, there are three distinct mission centres: the French Somali coast is under the care of the Vicariate Apostolic of the Gallas, which is entrusted to the French Capuchins of the Province of Lyons; English Somaliland is under the care of the Vicariate Apostolic of Arabia, also confided to the Capuchins; Italian Somaliland was detached in 1904 from the Vicariate Apostolic of Zanzibar, erected into the Precture Apostolic of Benadir and confided to the ancient Order of the Holy Trinity or Trinitarians."
"Practically all the inhabitants of Italian Somaliland are Mohammedans."
"English-language sources are preferable to sources in other languages so that readers can easily verify the content of the article. However, sources in other languages are acceptable where an English equivalent is not available. Where editors translate a direct quotation, they should quote the relevant portion of the original text in a footnote or in the article. Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors."
As a consequence of investigations and ANI discussions, on June 2015 Middayexpress has been BANNED from all Somalia related articles on en.wikipedia. See [1]
Topic Banned result: User:Middayexpress is hereby topic banned (broadly) from all Somalia-related topics. Additionally, in order to effect a timely halt to any alleged sock or meat puppets that may be editing the pages, administrators may at their discretion adopt a WP:1RR policy on all Somalia-related topics to enforce this ban. This topic ban and 1RR policy shall be in effect until such time as community consensus or arbcom supersede this ANI thread. TomStar81 ( Talk) 07:35, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
References
An "overview" makes sense for United States and France and maybe other places with multiple dioceses and ecclesiastical provinces, but why isn't this article part of the diocese article and let it go at that? It makes no sense for a one-diocese country to have two articles on it for RC IMO. I suggest merging and/or deleting this article. Student7 ( talk) 16:43, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Desecration of Sufi graves is not an appropriate topic for RC in Somalia article. Sufis are not Catholic. If you wish to argue that the desecration of Catholic graves is not reportable here because the gravesites of other religions were afforded equal opportunity, that is another matter. But reporting Sufis here is off WP:TOPIC. This can be in another article, "Somalia" maybe, or extremists in Somalia, but just not here. It is not germane to this article. Student7 ( talk) 14:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
As that article says, there is "no Christianity in Somaliland" and the region's self-declared independence of Somalia remains unrecognized by any country. Roman Catholicism in Somaliland is just not notable. Carlaude: Talk 04:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
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I read, Middayexpress, on your contributions that you are a kind of "specialist" in Somalian topics on en.wikipedia, and I respect your continuous commitment. But I understand even that you are a moslem and you seem to want to "erase" the catholic presence in Somalia even in en.wikipedia. I, as a catholic, feel a bit upset by your denial of catholicism in Somalia. I have added references and you quickly erased those evidences....why? They are not OR. The sentences added can be found here, just before the "after slavery" section. I am sorry, but this is en. wikipedia and I am ready to start a complaint procedure if you revert again.-- LittleTony ( talk) 02:26, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
moved from LittleTony's talkpage:
Kindly stop adding original research to the Roman Catholicism in Somalia article. You claim the following:
Catholicism was introduced in the part of Somalia that was called Italian Somalia in the late 1800s. The other areas with Somalian people (namely former British Somaliland, French Somaliland, Ethiopian Ogaden and Kenya north-eastern provinces) practically had no catholic presence.
Initially catholicism was practiced only by the few Italian colonists in Mogadishu and the Shebelle river farmer areas. But after WWI many Somalians become catholics: most of them were former black slaves, called Somali Bantu, in the Villaggio Duca degli Abruzzi and Genale plantations.
In 1895, the first 45 slaves were freed by the Italian colonial authority under the administration of the chartered catholic company "Filonardi" and converted to catholicism. Massive emancipation and conversion of slaves in Somalia only began after the antislavery activist father Robecchi Bricchetti informed the Italian public about the slave trade in Somalia and the indifferent attitude of the Italian colonial government toward the trade.
You've indicated that this source supports your edit, even though that source does not even once mention Catholicism. In fact, the last paragraph you paraphrased actually reads as follows:
In 1895, the first 45 slaves were freed by the Italian colonial authority under the administration of the chartered company, V. Filonardi. Massive emancipation of slaves in Somalia only began after the antislavery activist Robecchi Bricchetti informed the Italian public about the slave trade in Somalia and the indifferent attitude of the Italian colonial government toward the trade. Slavery in southern Somalia lasted until early into the 20th century when it was abolished by the Italian colonial authority in accordance with the Belgium protocol. Some inland groups remained in slavery until the 1930s, however.
As can be seen above, it's all about the slave trade, not Catholicism. That is both off-topic & original research (OR) on your part, and OR is not permitted on Wikipedia. Again, please desist with this disruptive behavior. Middayexpress ( talk) 05:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
You, Middayexpress, repeat and repeat and repeat the same things in a byzantine way. Please stop reverting. I am NOT inserting false material. Here it is why:
Finally, where and what are your sources? Please, for the last time, do not revert repeating the same contemporary moslem POVs that the "Catholicism never managed to penetrate the Somali community". This is propaganda not accepted in Wikipedia. Reliable sources demonstrate that there was a penetration in the 1930s, even if small.-- LittleTony ( talk) 04:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
"The Bishop of Mogadishu, Franco Filippini, declared in 1940 that there were about 40,000 Somali Catholics due to the work of missionaries in the rural regions of Juba and Shebelle, but WWII damaged in an irreversibly way most of the catholic missions in Italian Somalia." [1]
"While upholding the perception of Somalis as distinct from and superior to the European construct of "black Africans", both British and Italian colonial administrators placed the Jubba valley population in the latter category. Colonial discourse described the Jubba valley as occupied by a distinct group of inferior races, collectively identified as the WaGosha by the British and the WaGoscia by the Italians. Colonial authorities administratively distinguished the Gosha as an inferior social category, delineating a separate Gosha political district called Goshaland, and proposing a "native reserve" for the Gosha.
"a colonial census of Italian Somalia (which would obviously not have included the population of British Somaliland) in 1935 concluded that 6.2% of the population was "Negroid groups" a figure which is not far off the estimate given above. See Istituto centrale di statistica, VII censimento generale della populazione V".
"In Italian Somaliland, which contains about 250,000 Mohammedans and about 50,000 pagans, there are apparently no Christian missions."
"Properly speaking there is no Chrisitianity in Somaliland. The few Christians, perhaps one or two hundred, that can actually be counted, have come from schools and orphanages of the Catholic missions of Aden, Jibuti and of Berbera. As Somaliland is divided into three zones of influence, French, English, and Italian, there are three distinct mission centres: the French Somali coast is under the care of the Vicariate Apostolic of the Gallas, which is entrusted to the French Capuchins of the Province of Lyons; English Somaliland is under the care of the Vicariate Apostolic of Arabia, also confided to the Capuchins; Italian Somaliland was detached in 1904 from the Vicariate Apostolic of Zanzibar, erected into the Precture Apostolic of Benadir and confided to the ancient Order of the Holy Trinity or Trinitarians."
"Practically all the inhabitants of Italian Somaliland are Mohammedans."
"English-language sources are preferable to sources in other languages so that readers can easily verify the content of the article. However, sources in other languages are acceptable where an English equivalent is not available. Where editors translate a direct quotation, they should quote the relevant portion of the original text in a footnote or in the article. Translations published by reliable sources are preferred over translations made by Wikipedia editors."
As a consequence of investigations and ANI discussions, on June 2015 Middayexpress has been BANNED from all Somalia related articles on en.wikipedia. See [1]
Topic Banned result: User:Middayexpress is hereby topic banned (broadly) from all Somalia-related topics. Additionally, in order to effect a timely halt to any alleged sock or meat puppets that may be editing the pages, administrators may at their discretion adopt a WP:1RR policy on all Somalia-related topics to enforce this ban. This topic ban and 1RR policy shall be in effect until such time as community consensus or arbcom supersede this ANI thread. TomStar81 ( Talk) 07:35, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
References
An "overview" makes sense for United States and France and maybe other places with multiple dioceses and ecclesiastical provinces, but why isn't this article part of the diocese article and let it go at that? It makes no sense for a one-diocese country to have two articles on it for RC IMO. I suggest merging and/or deleting this article. Student7 ( talk) 16:43, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Desecration of Sufi graves is not an appropriate topic for RC in Somalia article. Sufis are not Catholic. If you wish to argue that the desecration of Catholic graves is not reportable here because the gravesites of other religions were afforded equal opportunity, that is another matter. But reporting Sufis here is off WP:TOPIC. This can be in another article, "Somalia" maybe, or extremists in Somalia, but just not here. It is not germane to this article. Student7 ( talk) 14:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
As that article says, there is "no Christianity in Somaliland" and the region's self-declared independence of Somalia remains unrecognized by any country. Roman Catholicism in Somaliland is just not notable. Carlaude: Talk 04:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Catholic Church in Somalia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:50, 1 August 2017 (UTC)