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Vice President of the United States says he was a Democrat; this says he was a Democrat-Republican. Which is it? -- Golbez 06:37, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The Democratic-Republican is the correct term for the party of the time, this party would be more similar to the Democratic party of today than to the Republican party, which would be more similar to the Whig party of the time of Richard Johnson. AG
This reference states that after his first two wives died, he took Julia Chin as his common law wife. Who were his first two wives and what is the source referenced for that information? AG 5-Aug 2005
Richard Mentor Johnson never married. I've read many references that say he had a long-term relationship with a family's slave, Julia Chinn. He had two daughter with her that he married into white society. After Julia's death he had a relationship with another slave that ended badly--he sold her at auction. I live in his home county, Scott County KY. Our library has many sources for this information.-- FloNight 04:55, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Please expand, he must have had other careers than a barman.
The Ronin 16:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
So who was his rival for election "with Johnson becoming vice-president by a vote of 36 to 16"? Who got the 16? talk 16:01 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I expanded the discussion of Johnson's interracial relationship, explaining that it was, very unusually, overt, and that it was notorious, with an example. I also explained exactly how this affected his political career in 1836-1840.
Also, the quoted version of his "election slogan" was incomplete.
Finally, every date and year mentioned was a link, which is not appropriate.
I added links to US Vice President and to some other references that might require explanation.
-- Rich Rostrom 04:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
On balance, I am happy to pass this article as a GA. It is decently written, well-sourced with a wide range of references and appears to conform to all other guidelines. Should the authors wish to take the article further, I would suggest obtaining at least one thorough copyedit, as the prose is not of the brillant standard required by FA. One other minor problem is that the article includes several unecessary links (e.g. riot). Otherwise this is a very nice article, well done.-- Jackyd101 ( talk) 22:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Don't worry about it too much; FA operates on a tight schedule, and it will take you a while to absorb the unsolicited advice. Come badk when you're done. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:08, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll be happy to help as I can also. It's got the makings of a very nice article, and I enjoyed learning about his life. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I have access to the 1833 life by Emmons, and the 1843 by "a Kentuckian". (Meyers is out.) Both are manifestly campaign biographies, and of limited reliability; but they are not the same book, and both should be consulted, although not trusted (Johnson's publicity is part of the subject here). ANB and Pratt may be the best modern biographies. Good luck. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Would anybody mind if I redid the format: I dislike two results of {{ cite book}}: Last names should be second, so we can link, and dates should not be third unless we expect, as we do not here, two different sources by the same author?
FA shouldn't mind as long as we are consistent; cite templates are not required.
If I can change, I would like to do so before I add Pratt. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:34, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations.
What does Meyer say about
Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Just what preparatory school he attended is a conjecture...Johnson read law under George Nicholas, who died shortly after he accepted a professorship in the law department of Transylvania Seminary. According to Robert B. McAfee...[Johnson] was reading law with the Honorable James Brown in Lexington in 1800...At this time, Brown was a professor in Transylvania's law department. Some writers state that Johnson "finished a classic and scientific education;" others, that he was a graduate of Transylvania. But the name of Richard M. Johnson does not appear in the list published in 1824, which names graduates from 1802 to that date, nor do the records of the old seminary, or those of the early university after the merger, give Richard's name.
I'm going to my local college library this afternoon, and am going to try to pry out of JSTOR the following articles:
Also ran across these which aren't in JSTOR:
I may or may not be able to get all of these, the local university doesn't subscribe to all the journals in JSTOR. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
The article Bryan Station has an image that could be used here: the famous incident of the women going out of the fort to get the water. However, The Kentucky Encyclopdia entry on Bryan Station says (p. 134) that this story was "long believed true but now relegated to legend." Alas. — Kevin Myers 16:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I have expanded the information about Johnson's trademark red vest; I have seen it mentioned in multiple sources, so it was apparently significant. However, I don't believe the information belongs in the lead, where it is presently located. I'm open for suggestions as to where it should go. Either discuss them here, or be bold and move it to a new location. Thanks. Acdixon ( talk • contribs • count) 12:49, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Time Magazine recently did a feature on the "15 Worst Vice Presidents" in United States history, and Johnson had the misfortune to make the list. Something in the article that I found quite fascinating was a mention that while in office Johnson proposed an expedition to the North Pole for the purposes of drilling a hole to the center of the earth. I'm not sure I understand the supposed physics behind the idea, but to me this seems like a very colorful story, and perhaps someone who knows this article better than I do could find a way to add it in, perhaps with additional explanation beyond what is provided in Time. [1] Adlerschloß ( talk) 05:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
In the intro, it says Johnson was chosen US senator to replace John Crittenden in 1819 when the latter resigned to become attorney general. However, Crittenden didn't become AG until 1841 (& again in 1850). The Crittenden article confirms this and goes on to say that he resigned in 1819 because he found state politics more interesting than that of Washington. Please consider a rewrite of the phrase about the resignation.
Smallfixer ( talk) 18:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
In the section on his relationship with Julia Chinn, the article links "sold at auction" to the article "Slave auction." But this does not appear to be the correct type of slave auction, as it is redirected to the page on charity slave auctions. There is an italic link from there to the page on "Slavery," but I think this is where the link should actually go in the first place. IrishCowboy ( talk) 13:21, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm not fond of the way that the info box lists Johnson as unmarried, so I edited it. Before 1852, Kentucky recognized common-law marriage. If Julia Chinn is Johnson's common-law wife, then he is not unmarried. I looked, and I don't think Wikipedia has a policy on how to handle common law marriage. Debbie W. 04:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dwainwr123 ( talk • contribs)
While in many ways Julia Chinn was treated by Johnson as a common-law-wife, she was clearly not leagally acknowledged as such. I am torn on how best to consider this matter. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 23:12, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
A biography from the late19th century makes the interesting point that the one who left him was no worse off; she was not 'sold south'. It was to a similar plantation to Johnson's where her life went on much as before. The motive for the sale was said to be not vengeance, but mainly to avoid embarrassment in daily life. 73.70.250.164 ( talk) 04:50, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
The version I have seen is:
Ripsey Rampsey Rumpsey Dumpsey I, Dick Johnson Killed Tecumseh
Does anyone have a primary source for either this, or the version in the article? 73.70.250.164 ( talk) 04:54, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
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Footnotes 17 & 18 (as accessed 20 Feb 2021) cite "Great Mountain Freeman." Should this be "Green Mountain Freeman"? See https://www.loc.gov/item/sn84023209 -- A12n ( talk) 05:45, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
The second of the two notes mentioned above has been corrected & enlinked. -- A12n ( talk) 18:54, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
The second paragraph of Marriage and family seems very confused and possibly from an unreliable source. It seems Daniel was living in Canada, not Benjamin, and Marcellus was his son, not his and Julia's brother. There's also a questionable reference to the Chinn family in the fifth paragraph. Dates are missing for the marriage to Julia and birth of their daughters, as well as his father's death. 174.67.226.163 ( talk) 08:55, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Richard Mentor Johnson article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Richard Mentor Johnson has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Vice President of the United States says he was a Democrat; this says he was a Democrat-Republican. Which is it? -- Golbez 06:37, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The Democratic-Republican is the correct term for the party of the time, this party would be more similar to the Democratic party of today than to the Republican party, which would be more similar to the Whig party of the time of Richard Johnson. AG
This reference states that after his first two wives died, he took Julia Chin as his common law wife. Who were his first two wives and what is the source referenced for that information? AG 5-Aug 2005
Richard Mentor Johnson never married. I've read many references that say he had a long-term relationship with a family's slave, Julia Chinn. He had two daughter with her that he married into white society. After Julia's death he had a relationship with another slave that ended badly--he sold her at auction. I live in his home county, Scott County KY. Our library has many sources for this information.-- FloNight 04:55, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Please expand, he must have had other careers than a barman.
The Ronin 16:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
So who was his rival for election "with Johnson becoming vice-president by a vote of 36 to 16"? Who got the 16? talk 16:01 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I expanded the discussion of Johnson's interracial relationship, explaining that it was, very unusually, overt, and that it was notorious, with an example. I also explained exactly how this affected his political career in 1836-1840.
Also, the quoted version of his "election slogan" was incomplete.
Finally, every date and year mentioned was a link, which is not appropriate.
I added links to US Vice President and to some other references that might require explanation.
-- Rich Rostrom 04:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
On balance, I am happy to pass this article as a GA. It is decently written, well-sourced with a wide range of references and appears to conform to all other guidelines. Should the authors wish to take the article further, I would suggest obtaining at least one thorough copyedit, as the prose is not of the brillant standard required by FA. One other minor problem is that the article includes several unecessary links (e.g. riot). Otherwise this is a very nice article, well done.-- Jackyd101 ( talk) 22:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Don't worry about it too much; FA operates on a tight schedule, and it will take you a while to absorb the unsolicited advice. Come badk when you're done. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:08, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll be happy to help as I can also. It's got the makings of a very nice article, and I enjoyed learning about his life. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I have access to the 1833 life by Emmons, and the 1843 by "a Kentuckian". (Meyers is out.) Both are manifestly campaign biographies, and of limited reliability; but they are not the same book, and both should be consulted, although not trusted (Johnson's publicity is part of the subject here). ANB and Pratt may be the best modern biographies. Good luck. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Would anybody mind if I redid the format: I dislike two results of {{ cite book}}: Last names should be second, so we can link, and dates should not be third unless we expect, as we do not here, two different sources by the same author?
FA shouldn't mind as long as we are consistent; cite templates are not required.
If I can change, I would like to do so before I add Pratt. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:34, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations.
What does Meyer say about
Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Just what preparatory school he attended is a conjecture...Johnson read law under George Nicholas, who died shortly after he accepted a professorship in the law department of Transylvania Seminary. According to Robert B. McAfee...[Johnson] was reading law with the Honorable James Brown in Lexington in 1800...At this time, Brown was a professor in Transylvania's law department. Some writers state that Johnson "finished a classic and scientific education;" others, that he was a graduate of Transylvania. But the name of Richard M. Johnson does not appear in the list published in 1824, which names graduates from 1802 to that date, nor do the records of the old seminary, or those of the early university after the merger, give Richard's name.
I'm going to my local college library this afternoon, and am going to try to pry out of JSTOR the following articles:
Also ran across these which aren't in JSTOR:
I may or may not be able to get all of these, the local university doesn't subscribe to all the journals in JSTOR. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
The article Bryan Station has an image that could be used here: the famous incident of the women going out of the fort to get the water. However, The Kentucky Encyclopdia entry on Bryan Station says (p. 134) that this story was "long believed true but now relegated to legend." Alas. — Kevin Myers 16:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I have expanded the information about Johnson's trademark red vest; I have seen it mentioned in multiple sources, so it was apparently significant. However, I don't believe the information belongs in the lead, where it is presently located. I'm open for suggestions as to where it should go. Either discuss them here, or be bold and move it to a new location. Thanks. Acdixon ( talk • contribs • count) 12:49, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Time Magazine recently did a feature on the "15 Worst Vice Presidents" in United States history, and Johnson had the misfortune to make the list. Something in the article that I found quite fascinating was a mention that while in office Johnson proposed an expedition to the North Pole for the purposes of drilling a hole to the center of the earth. I'm not sure I understand the supposed physics behind the idea, but to me this seems like a very colorful story, and perhaps someone who knows this article better than I do could find a way to add it in, perhaps with additional explanation beyond what is provided in Time. [1] Adlerschloß ( talk) 05:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
In the intro, it says Johnson was chosen US senator to replace John Crittenden in 1819 when the latter resigned to become attorney general. However, Crittenden didn't become AG until 1841 (& again in 1850). The Crittenden article confirms this and goes on to say that he resigned in 1819 because he found state politics more interesting than that of Washington. Please consider a rewrite of the phrase about the resignation.
Smallfixer ( talk) 18:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
In the section on his relationship with Julia Chinn, the article links "sold at auction" to the article "Slave auction." But this does not appear to be the correct type of slave auction, as it is redirected to the page on charity slave auctions. There is an italic link from there to the page on "Slavery," but I think this is where the link should actually go in the first place. IrishCowboy ( talk) 13:21, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm not fond of the way that the info box lists Johnson as unmarried, so I edited it. Before 1852, Kentucky recognized common-law marriage. If Julia Chinn is Johnson's common-law wife, then he is not unmarried. I looked, and I don't think Wikipedia has a policy on how to handle common law marriage. Debbie W. 04:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dwainwr123 ( talk • contribs)
While in many ways Julia Chinn was treated by Johnson as a common-law-wife, she was clearly not leagally acknowledged as such. I am torn on how best to consider this matter. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 23:12, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
A biography from the late19th century makes the interesting point that the one who left him was no worse off; she was not 'sold south'. It was to a similar plantation to Johnson's where her life went on much as before. The motive for the sale was said to be not vengeance, but mainly to avoid embarrassment in daily life. 73.70.250.164 ( talk) 04:50, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
The version I have seen is:
Ripsey Rampsey Rumpsey Dumpsey I, Dick Johnson Killed Tecumseh
Does anyone have a primary source for either this, or the version in the article? 73.70.250.164 ( talk) 04:54, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Richard Mentor Johnson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:35, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Richard Mentor Johnson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:21, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Footnotes 17 & 18 (as accessed 20 Feb 2021) cite "Great Mountain Freeman." Should this be "Green Mountain Freeman"? See https://www.loc.gov/item/sn84023209 -- A12n ( talk) 05:45, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
The second of the two notes mentioned above has been corrected & enlinked. -- A12n ( talk) 18:54, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
The second paragraph of Marriage and family seems very confused and possibly from an unreliable source. It seems Daniel was living in Canada, not Benjamin, and Marcellus was his son, not his and Julia's brother. There's also a questionable reference to the Chinn family in the fifth paragraph. Dates are missing for the marriage to Julia and birth of their daughters, as well as his father's death. 174.67.226.163 ( talk) 08:55, 26 December 2023 (UTC)