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The Rebecca De Mornay character on Seinfeld also appeared in the "Homeless Rickshaw/ Uncle Leo the Shoplifter" episode as the "book store clerk" and in the episode where Elaine has to pretend to be a janitor to use the janitor's closet as the address for her chinese food delivery. De Mornay (the character) was Elaine's custodial boss.

Sonya Eddy played De Mornay in all three episodes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.108.216.120 ( talk) 2006-03-15 19:56:45

Probably better to describe the character on Seinfeld as "a character coincidently named Rebecca De Mornay" as clearly the character is not portraying "the" Rebecca De Morney as in the famous actress from Risky Business, etc. Indeed, given that the Seinfeld character is played by a heavyset black woman, it is clear that her name was chosen as a joke. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:801:300:7520:914A:893A:2DDC:D567 ( talk) 17:32, 22 January 2024 (UTC) reply

It will be great if someone that she went to school at Summehill, one of the leading Free School advocating the use of freedom of choice for children.

See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,183564,00.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.127.214 ( talk) 2007-07-27 09:20:44

Reference added. Still need a reliable source for "St. Johann in Tirol" though; all the ones I've found are those usual slapdash biographies which either seem to be cut-and-paste from this Wikipedia article itself (without attribution or references, of course) or something like that. IMDb bio is interesting but not authoritative; I can't really tell if parts of the IMDb bio was sourced from the Wikipedia article, or vice-versa. -- Closeapple ( talk) 06:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC) reply

'De' is grammatically incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.5.1.183 ( talk) 2007-07-17 17:27:59

In Dutch, but not in English. Debresser ( talk) 20:59, 5 May 2014 (UTC) reply

And to the original poster, it's a name. We don't typically apply grammar to proper names in English. TheBaron0530 ( talk) 18:45, 18 December 2023 (UTC) reply

Was Rebecca born in 1959 or 1962? Hotwine8 03:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Whether you can get to Ancestry.com California Birth Index or not, this site has her birthdate, not one she wants but one she has. She was born in 1959. Other sites can say other dates, but they are useless. A California Birth Index is factual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daviddaniel37 ( talk • contribs) 05:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC) reply

Another website answers.com says 1961. 15.251.169.69 14:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC) reply

According to California Birth Index 1905-1995 she was born in 1959. Karbuncle ( talk) 14:03, 23 January 2010 (UTC) reply

Rebecca was born in 1962. I am her brother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monaco1112 ( talk • contribs) 01:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

I've put a reference for 1959 on the article based on California Births, 1905 - 1995. Family Tree Legends Records Collection (Online Database). Pearl Street Software, 2004-2005. That database is sourced from California Birth Index, which is a state government work. What (if any) evidence is there that the state database is wrong? She was adopted when she was 2 or 3 though, wasn't she? If she was born in 1962, are there any verifiable published/released sources we can use for that? -- Closeapple ( talk) 06:51, 30 August 2010 (UTC) reply

Back when I worked in Public Health I had many dealings with state information. Errors are everywhere. I was born in California about 60 years ago. I am not in California Births, 1905 - 1995. My son was born in California about 30 years ago. He is not in California Births, 1905 - 1995. I could try other members of my family but what's the use? JimCubb ( talk) 02:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC) reply

Her father Wally George's real surname was Pearch. The California Birth Index only has one Rebecca Pearch. She was born on August 29, 1959 in Sonoma County. Whilst the index isn't complete, the info that is included usually is. Jim Michael ( talk) 02:48, 28 January 2011 (UTC) reply

In 1958 radio station KJAX-AM went on the air in Santa Rosa, CA and in 1959 I was a guest DJ on the Wally George radio program. The studios were on the 2nd floor of the Santa Rosa Hotel at 508 Fourth Street, which is where I went to be on his show. I don't recall the exact date, but it was in June or July of 1959. Jane Eager was a part of his radio show and she was there and in advanced stages of pregnancy. I really adored Jane and she did a lot of child-like voices that in my opinion made her the star of the Wally George program. Rebecca's birthday has to be in 1959, not 1961. Wally George also had what was a huge local hit record in Santa Rosa called "I Dig" on Ac'cent Records (Hollywood, CA)(AC-1060), Lewis-Whitfield composers, with Jimmy Lewis and His Orchestra. Jack Encell — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Encell ( talk • contribs) 07:04, 20 March 2011 (UTC) reply

Since her parents divorced in 1960 and her mom remarried in 1961 to her stepdad, she was not born in 1962. Her birth year must be 1959. WhoAmIYouDoNotKnow ( talk) 18:43, 21 July 2022 (UTC) reply

Good point, and likely correct, but it would be WP:OR to use it as a reason to exclude references. The divorce and marriage are prominent in the article. Readers can make their own conclusions. Meanwhile, we can keep an eye open for references clarify the inconsistencies. -- Hipal ( talk) 22:57, 21 July 2022 (UTC) reply

Her birth year is 1959. I found this on Ancestry.com's California Birth Index: Name Rebecca J Pearch Birth Date 29 Aug 1959 Gender Female Mother's Maiden Name Eagar Birth County Sonoma

I also found this data on her father Wally George: Walter "Wally" George Pearch Jr married Patricia Jane "Julie" Eager on Dec 19, 1958 Walter "Wally" George Pearch Jr Married Joan M Teipe on July 7, 1961 Making it highly unlikely that Wally fathered a child with his first wife after he married his second.

The article states (with sources) "Her parents divorced in 1960, and she took the surname of her stepfather, Richard De Mornay, after her mother married him in 1961. her stepfather died of a stroke on March 2, 1962" Since it is agreed that her birth date is August 29, Richard De Mornay could never have been her stepfather if she was born in 1962 because he was already dead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.184.49.138 ( talk) 05:39, 2 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Turner Classic Movies shows her birth date as August 29, 1959, she is presently 63 years old. https://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/person/46543%7C0/Rebecca-De-Mornay#overview De Mornay's birthdate should be corrected for the page, TMC is the "Gold Standard" for actor biographies. 199.227.97.254 ( talk) 20:30, 24 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Entertainment websites are rarely high-quality, and I don't think the TCM profile is going to settle this. -- Hipal ( talk) 15:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Turner Classic Movies (TCM) is an American movie-oriented network owned by Warner Bros. Discovery!!! 199.227.97.254 ( talk) 18:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC) reply

It's a profile with no other context or references of it's own. High-quality references would have both. -- Hipal ( talk) 21:00, 25 April 2023 (UTC) reply

TCM is as "High Quality" as it gets for movie information and actor's profiles. Would you like a certified copy of her birth certificate? Ridiculous! 199.227.97.254 ( talk) 15:44, 17 May 2023 (UTC) reply

With so much that speaks in favor of 1959, I don't understand how this can be an issue. She would not have been the first person to lie about her age and having it discovered afterwards. I suggest that we stick to 1959 in the lead and the infobox, but maybe with the footnote that 1962 has been used in the past. Anyone in favor? DrKilleMoff ( talk) 12:02, 7 June 2023 (UTC) reply

Per WP:DOB: If multiple independent reliable sources state differing years or dates of birth in conflict, the consensus is to include all birth dates/years for which a reliable source exists, clearly noting discrepancies.

As it stands, the subject herself is clearly not a reliable source for this information and the definitive proof which used to be cited (the California Birth Index) isn't usable due to WP:BLPPRIMARY. While the birth announcement is also ambiguous because it doesn't actually give a child's name or even specify the gender of the newly born child. Nor does it specifically confirm that the man in the birth notice is the exact same man known as De Mornay's father.

Other third-party sources provide varying years. An article on her DUI arrest in 2007 via the Associated Press states that their records indicates she was 45 while others stated 48. [1] Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 01:17, 25 June 2023 (UTC) reply

Looking for a reliable citation to support that Eugenia Clinchard was her grandmother, anyone local? Off2riorob ( talk) 02:23, 12 December 2010 (UTC) reply

I have reverted recent additions - there is no access to the california birth record, and I see such sources as WP:OR and similar to investigative reporting, truth is, there is in the press and print differences in reports of her birth, there is imo nothing wrong with that and in reporting that we are doing our job - reporting what independent reports say. I also removed this cite as imo it is not WP reliable http://www.mademan.com/chickipedia/rebecca-de-mornay/ - feel free to discuss and convince me otherwise, thanks. Off2riorob ( talk) 11:54, 14 January 2011 (UTC) reply

Good lord this is fail-tastic. IMDb says 1959, while the ref next to the DOB section says age 45 (so 1965) or age 48 (1962) in 2010 (and since it's December, +/-1 year). Almost tempted to go ask a publicist or something for this information. hbdragon88 ( talk) 02:24, 10 August 2011 (UTC) reply

Turner Classic Movies shows her birth date as August 29, 1959, she is presently 63 years old. https://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/person/46543%7C0/Rebecca-De-Mornay#overview De Mornay's birthdate should be corrected for the page, TMC is the "Gold Standard" for actor biographies 199.227.97.254 ( talk) 18:13, 24 April 2023 (UTC) reply

Would a copy of her birth certificate be proof enough? That's how we solved the issue with Doris Day. DrKilleMoff ( talk) 13:16, 7 June 2023 (UTC) reply

De Mornay starred in the made for tv miniseries, but in the article it's not listed in her television work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.128.193.137 ( talk) 00:29, 3 July 2011 (UTC) reply

http://movies.nytimes.com/person/17592/Rebecca-De-Mornay/biography lists the place of birth as Los Angeles, while the article currently says Santa Rosa.  I ran across this as part of another discussion involving multiple sources regarding birth years, so this is an FYI.  Unscintillating ( talk) 03:46, 25 March 2013 (UTC) reply

See the discussions above and the reference. The birth record says Santa Rosa, and that is consistent with other sources we have. -- Ronz ( talk) 22:24, 25 March 2013 (UTC) reply

The source you cite appears to say "Sonoma" County, saying nothing about "Santa Rosa".  Note that the NYT in this diff shows that when retrieved on December 10, 2010, NYT showed the year of birth as 1961.  Now, two years later, they show the year of birth as 1959.  This means that they are actively maintaining the data.  We also are using this article as a reliable reference for other facts on the article page.  Here is the edit that moved "Santa Rosa" into the body of the article, but the source appears to be the hidden "Persondata" template.  Unscintillating ( talk) 23:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC) reply

My mistake. The birth record makes Los Angeles an impossibility, but doesn't confirm Santa Rosa. I wonder if the editor still watches this article. -- Ronz ( talk) 02:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC) reply

Presently, the article say: "at the age of five, she took her stepfather's surname". At age 5, does one "take" or "receive"? Debresser ( talk) 20:59, 5 May 2014 (UTC) reply

Since the BLP issues have been ongoing for quite a long time and they started up as soon as the previous protection lapsed, I've reprotected the article for another 3 months. If it continues from there, then I'll just indef protect it. This has been going on since at least 2010, so if it keeps up then that's a good rationale for an indef semi-protection. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:00, 24 January 2015 (UTC) reply

People who claim to be herself or her step-brother insist on making changes to this article that do not necessarily conform with Wikipedia standards. They even wrote me to my private email about this. I suggest that 1. they read WP:COI and other fundamental Wikipedia policies and guidelines. 2. Any change they want to make to this article they should discuss here first. That will avoid a lot of unpleasantness. Debresser ( talk) 23:54, 24 January 2015 (UTC) reply

• That's some good, sound advice. I'll be honest in that this will have to be sourced properly regardless of who adds it, especially since past discussions have broached the idea that the stepbrother could be a hoax. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:59, 25 January 2015 (UTC) reply

• I've still got this on my watchlist (the protections lapsed yesterday, I believe) and a warning to anyone coming in to re-add this content: I am ready to indefinitely protect the article if it comes to that and since this has been ongoing since 2010, there's reason for me to indef this. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:19, 25 April 2015 (UTC) reply

Many of the memorials for Harry Dean Stanton mention he had a relationship with her. Is this something that should be in here? 97.93.62.50 ( talk) 02:46, 16 September 2017 (UTC) reply

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@ EamonToPlease: @ Wikitor007: There is no upcoming film, it is a joke cooked up by Ricky Gervais and the guests on his show. Please do not add the YouTube video as a citation or link, it is a copyright violation and a WP:PRIMARY source. Please do not add claims about this "upcoming film" unless they can be corroborated by reliable secondary sources. We will be invoking the policy on removing contentious and poorly-sourced material from biographies on this material. Thank you. Elizium23 ( talk) 23:29, 13 March 2020 (UTC) reply

I've removed the birth year until proper discussion can be done. We cannot use genealogy websites as proof for BLPs, per WP:BLPPRIMARY and WP:ANCESTRY.COM. Because the only source cited as "definite proof" was a California birth index retrieved through a genealogy website akin to Ancestry.com (familytreenow.com). And this birth index was cited in past discussions. And a discussion from 10 years ago mentions IMDb as a source for some reason to "confirm" her 1959 birth year.

So, hopefully we can now resolve this issue. Sources supporting a 1961 or 1962 birth year which have been listed in her article [2] [3] And apparently this book titled: "The New Biographical Dictionary of Film: Completely Updated and Expanded" [4]

An article in November 2007 through the Associated Press [5] states that AP records indicate that she's 45, and the August birth month seems pretty consistent, so that would place her birth year in around 1962. Though they also state that some records say she was 48 around November 2007, which would support the 1959 birth year.

A previous note claimed that this was "erroneously listed", but if many sources were also reporting a 1961 or 1962 birth year, and she was supposedly born in 1959, I think it's very likely that this was a case of age fabrication, as is common in the entertainment industry. But as it stands, if the only definitive proof is a Birth Index (which shouldn't be cited per WP:BLPPRIMARY, I'm removing the birth year until further notice.

Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 22:08, 24 November 2021 (UTC) reply

Note that per WP:DOB, we should consider adding all possible dates that are well-referenced. This is a recent change to WP:DOB, where before it was much more acceptable to simply not present the year(s) at all. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:37, 28 March 2022 (UTC) reply

I don't see a reference for Wally George mentioning the birth on his show. I assume it would be difficult to find, if it exists.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110103042846/http://movies.nytimes.com/person/17592/Rebecca-De-Mornay/biography states '61. We might want to double-check if this can be used given the Baseline and All Media Guide copyrights.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2007-11-07-de-mornay-arrest_N.htm published Nov 11 2007 (?) Associated Press records indicate De Mornay's age is 45, while some other sources give it as 48. That's '59 and '62.

The Washington Post link at the start of this section gives '62.

I think '59 and '62 seem fine. I'm not sure about '61. -- Hipal ( talk) 18:46, 28 March 2022 (UTC) reply

After digging through Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_160#AllMusic/AMG_as_a_source_for_biographical_info and Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_331#AllMusic_(allmusic.com):_summary_of_previous_AllMusic_and/or_"All_Music"_discussions, I'm still not clear if that NYTimes entry should be used for '61. -- Hipal ( talk) 18:55, 28 March 2022 (UTC) reply

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/2021/08/29/UPI-Almanac-for-Sunday-Aug-29-2021/3191629739051/ '59 -- Hipal ( talk) 19:24, 28 March 2022 (UTC) reply

@ Clear Looking Glass:, how about we list '59 and '62? What do you think of adding '61? -- Hipal ( talk) 19:28, 28 March 2022 (UTC) reply

From the "Births" column of the August 31, 1959 Santa Rosa Press Democrat - if you have a newspapers.com subscription, you can view this here: https://www.newspapers.com/image/281622772/?terms=births&match=1

"GEORGE - To Mr. and Mrs. Walter George, Santa Rosa, at Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital, Aug 29, 1959, a girl, 6 pounds, 9 ounces."

Not 100% conclusive, but "Walter George" is likely Wally George. Unfortunately, the baby girl didn't yet have a name. There are no possible matches in 1961 or 1962. Sham1903 ( talk) 10:06, 17 April 2022 (UTC) reply

All evidence points to 1959:

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/2019/08/29/UPI-Almanac-for-Thursday-Aug-29-2019/8801566781617/

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/2021/08/29/UPI-Almanac-for-Sunday-Aug-29-2021/3191629739051/?u3L=1

https://brooklyneagle.com/articles/2016/08/29/august-29-birthdays-for-lea-michele-liam-payne-richard-gere/

https://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/person/46543%7C0/Rebecca-De-Mornay#overview

https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2ba143deb3

https://www.lavanguardia.com/cultura/20180910/451532518065/rebecca-de-mornay-vengativa-ninera-la-mano-que-mece-la-cuna.html

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000360/

She lied about her age in the past, but People magazine outed her in the '90s:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160403164254/http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20123972,00.html

Cali Birth Index is 100% conclusive (the fact that it's considered an unacceptable source on WP is ridiculous):

https://www.californiabirthindex.org/birth/rebecca_j_pearch_born_1959_7009890 — Preceding unsigned comment added by HanginOn ( talk • contribs) 19:58, 8 May 2022 (UTC) reply

Note that the WP page for Age Fabrication states "year of birth was alternately given as 1961 or 1962 for much of her career. She was actually born in 1959." Those editors concerned with this page should make content consistent (somehow). Gprobins ( talk) 15:41, 9 May 2022 (UTC) reply

Age fabrication should be ignored. It's a massive BLP violation, with no references that relate to this article.

The policy is WP:DOB. It is not our place to dismiss reliable references, nor ignore reference policy.

She lied about her age in the past, but People magazine outed her in the '90s I see no reference for "she lied" nor does the People ref demonstrate any "outing". Please be careful with WP:BLP claims. -- Hipal ( talk) 16:31, 10 May 2022 (UTC) reply

@ Hipal: - Hi Hipal, I know this is several months late, but I see that the issue seems to have been resolved and third-party reliable sources have been provided for the 1959 birth year. I'm sorry for bringing up the age fabrication page on Wikipedia. I did that to link to the concept about how lying about one's age isn't that uncommon in the entertainment industry, and that might explain the inconsistency in her birth years. But that is just my opinion and I'm sorry if it caused confusion. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 00:37, 29 October 2022 (UTC) reply

@ HanginOn: - A few months late, but citing IMDb shouldn't be used per WP:IMDB. The California Birth Index shouldn't be used because it would fall under violating WP:BLPPRIMARY as this is a biography of a living person. The issue seems to have been resolved and other reliable sources give a 1959 birth. Though it has been noted that a 1961 or 1962 birth year is also given. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 00:52, 29 October 2022 (UTC) reply

I threw in a start just to get the edit-warring to subside. The templates to use didn't come up with a simple search, so they need to be found and added if we go this way. A footnote including more references should be added. -- Hipal ( talk) 20:09, 16 May 2022 (UTC) reply

I've taken this to WP:BLPN#Rebecca De Mornay and WP:BLPPRIVACY. I'm not sure we're being compliant given the above. Doug Weller talk 10:58, 18 May 2022 (UTC) reply

The discussion was archived to Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive338#Rebecca_De_Mornay_and_WP:BLPPRIVACY -- Hipal ( talk) 23:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC) reply

@ Drown Soda: Why did you change it to '59? From my understanding of the policies and general consensus, we should be listing both rather than saying it's '59 but sources vary. I don't see any reference that puts it to rest, or at least we're not using any such references properly. WP:DOB: If multiple independent reliable sources state differing years or dates of birth in conflict, the consensus is to include all birth dates/years for which a reliable source exists, clearly noting discrepancies. In this situation, editors must not include only one date/year which they consider "most likely", or include merely a single date from one of two or more reliable sources. Original research must not be used to extrapolate the date of birth. -- Hipal ( talk) 01:59, 29 October 2022 (UTC) reply

@ Hipal: You're right--I vaguely remember making this edit and relegating the conflicting birth years to a footnote, but I did leave only the 1959 there (I am guessing I was basing this off the birth announcement cited in the newspaper article, which I think would trump most other secondary sources. I think perhaps the best option would to list her birth year as a " c. 1959–1963", no? -- Drown Soda ( talk) 05:04, 29 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Thanks for the clarification.

My understanding is to list each year for which we have reliable sources. The footnote should reference all that we list. I'm hesitant to present the birth birth announcement as settling the dispute.

I think we should move the sentence about the dispute into the footnote. -- Hipal ( talk) 23:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Hi, I've re-checked the birth announcement and it does seems like a dubious source. This could be any "Mr/Mrs. Walter George". "Walter" or "George" are pretty common names in America. And anyways, wouldn't her father's surname would be "Pearch"? It's what sources claim her birth surname was (though I understand the father eventually adopted "George" as his professional name).

Furthermore, it doesn't mention a daughter named "Rebecca". There isn't even a child's name given. So this could any child born to any "Walter George". Again, neither of these names are uncommon in America. Assuming that this child born on August 1959 to a "Mr/Mrs. Walter George" is without a doubt the same woman now known as "Rebecca De Mornay" would be original research, would it not?

I agree with listing each birth year from which usable sources state. This seems to be an ongoing debate. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 22:06, 21 March 2023 (UTC) reply

Turner Classic Movies shows her birth date as August 29, 1959, she is presently 63 years old. https://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/person/46543%7C0/Rebecca-De-Mornay#overview

De Mornay's birthdate should be corrected for the page, TMC is the "Gold Standard" for actor biographies. 199.227.97.254 ( talk) 16:32, 24 April 2023 (UTC) reply

What proof do you have of TMC being the "Gold Standard" for actor biographies? What makes TMC more reliable than any other entertainment website? I see no sources provided on where they even got their information. That site is as good as any other for her birthday. Which is to say, not definitive so far, especially for a BLP. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 23:11, 22 May 2023 (UTC) reply

UPI which is generally reliable lists her birth year as 1959. In fact most sources use 1959 as her birth year. https://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2019/08/29/Famous-birthdays-for-Aug-29-Rebecca-De-Mornay-Liam-Payne/8331566781621/. Even Brooklyn Eagle and Cleveland.com says 1959. https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2023/08/famous-birthdays-list-for-august-29-2023-includes-celebrities-elliott-gould-rebecca-de-mornay.html https://brooklyneagle.com/articles/2016/08/29/august-29-birthdays-for-lea-michele-liam-payne-richard-gere/ DrKilleMoff ( talk) 17:34, 20 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Associated Press also says 1959. https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-music-tv-arts-and-entertainment-celebrity-16f5296fd513d9f32d8942718cfea995. All recent sources gives 1959 as her birth date. With so much in favour for 1959 I think we shall stick to that year. DrKilleMoff ( talk) 12:57, 13 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Specifically her relationship with Leonard Cohen:

1. 16 (Winnipeg Free Press): merely states he was her "one-time fiance" without indicating time period or evidence of an engagement
2. 17 (Interview Magazine): lede there introduces interviewer Cohen as her "companion" not fiance
3. 18 and #19 (LeonardCohencroatia web site): bogus, probably inserted by someone who couldn't find a reliable source. Neither 18 nor 19 includes terms such as "Genesis" and "Rebecca". Martindo ( talk) 10:08, 19 May 2022 (UTC) reply

I removed the more trivial portion, referenced to LeonardCohencroatia. I agree the references throughout the article need review and cleanup. -- Hipal ( talk) 15:16, 19 May 2022 (UTC) reply