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The "trivia" states that Quanah Parker was born in the Wichita Mountain area of Oklahoma. While he spent the last 25 year of his life in Wichitas, most historians believe he was born in present day Dawson County, TX as stated in the "Handbook of Texas Online."
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/DD/hcd3.html 70.243.178.104 17:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Help needed from those knowledgable on the subject. I'm just an ignorant, but interested, reader - noticing this discrepancy:
In this article, "Quanah Parker", it states, Cynthia Ann Parker... was given the Indian name Nadua ("Someone Found")...
and
In the closely related article, "Cynthia Ann Parker", it states: Cynthia Ann was named "Naduah" by the Comanches, which means "she carries herself with dignity and grace
Maralrapp 00:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
No sources were ever cited for the claims Quanah was never recognized by his band as a chief, and 6 months have passed, so I eliminated that unsourced claim. If anyone has sources, please let me know, and we can debate this issue further. old windy bear 10:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Amazingly, the current article states that Parker's force won a victory at Abobe Walls, but before correcing that obvious error, perhaps we should ask for the original poster's definition. (The buffalo hunters retained possession of the facility with few losses, in contrast to the Indians, who were repulsed.) In the Wikipedia entry the battle results are listed as 16 Indians killed to 4 whites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Adobe_Walls —Preceding unsigned comment added by BTillman ( talk • contribs) 19:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
hello every one Quanah Parker was the best Comanche chief to me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.233.113.189 ( talk) 22:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Quanah_Parker#Founder_of_the_Native_American_Church_Movement says:
Native_American_Church#The_Native_American_Church_Movement says:
The second version give OC Stewart's "The peyote religion: a history" as a reference, whereas the first is unreferenced, so I'm inclined to go with the latter.
Peter G Werner ( talk) 01:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
As far as Parker being founder of NAC, if he died in 1911 as the Quanah Parker article states he couldn't have been a founder of the NAC as such. Gotta get back to the RW right now I'm thinking of rewriting the section of the NAC on the NAC page with the editing based on The Peyote Cult and properly cited. Any comments about this idea? Moss&Fern ( talk) 00:36, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm reading over Weston La Barre's "The Peyote Cult," and he doesn't say much to the extent of who introduced Peyote to Quanah Parker. Rather a direct quote from the book states, "Quanah Parker, the great Comanche proselytizer of peyote, at first opposed to it, was cured of a stomach ailment in 1884 and became one of the most enthusiastic proponents of the herb." [1] I don't see more than that, and have yet to find any sources claiming that he was gored by a bull or anything of the sort.
As for Quanah Parker being a founder of the Native American Church, I find his founding characteristics to be peripheral, but highly important to note. Not only did he adopt Peyotism in 1884 and begin proselytizing it extensively thereafter, but he encouraged Native Americans to embrace white society and learn their ways as to survive while retaining some of their "Indian-ness." He encouraged Native Americans to go to school and get a white man's education. In 1908 Quanah testified before the Oklahoma legislature and had the anti-peyote law repealed the same year. [2] Thereafter, many former Carlisle students went on to lead Peyote groups and defend Peyotism in the landmark 1918 Carl M. Hayden Anti-Peyote Bill [HR 2614) case that sought to outlaw Peyote for the entire United States. They won, and then with James Mooney's prompting and the aid of other former Carlisle students the Native American Church was incorporated in 1918. [3]
To say Quanah was a direct founder is a stretch, but to insist his influence amongst Native Americans and Peyotists wasn't a catalyst to the NAC's formation seems to be a fallacy. -Caleb Kuntz St.belac ( talk) 08:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
I seriously doubt that a Ute medicine man is the one who first gave him peyote. I am leaning towards he was wounded, (I thought in battle but I wasn't there and do not know nor have I had access to his medical records) and running from the Rangers into the safety of Mexico was given medicines by people there, not the Ute. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.136.34.157 (
talk) 16:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
References
https://wrldrels.org/2016/10/08/native-american-church/ Johnpedwards ( talk) 06:16, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
http://www.stainblue.com/quanahparker.html Johnpedwards ( talk) 07:07, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
I have no idea who he married, how many children he had, and it is missing a BUNCH of important information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.18.141 ( talk) 02:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
The American Indian/Chiefs website is not sourced, so is not a valid source compared to others. There has been much written about Quanah that is well-documented, so editors should go to the books. Parkwells ( talk) 17:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
I request that the rating of "low importance" for Quanah by Texas and American West wikigroups be reconsidered. Quanah deserves at least a "mid-importance" rating. Smallchief 15:55, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/566749934329361603/ Johnpedwards ( talk) 07:14, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
There is a serious fault with the article when it claims that Quanah was almost certainly not at the battle of Pease river. The article gives as one of its sources the book "Empire of the Summer Moon". That book, however, draws the opposite conclusion, that Quanah was in fact there.
The glaring discrepancy between the article's claim, and the text of the source cited in support of the claim in the current version of the Quanah Parker page, must at a minimum be acknowledged.
Gwynne, in "Empire", writes "Quanah and Peanuts were at the camp because their mother said they were." There is much more to the argument given in favor of Quanah having been there, and the conclusion is given emphatically. Historygamer ( talk) 01:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
The main article also asserts, without citing any reference, that "... in an effort to further his political career, Sul Ross later fabricated a story wherein he claimed to have killed Peta Nocona at Pease River." But according to "Empire of the Summer Moon", Cynthia Parker was taken to where Nokona had been killed, and she "wept and wailed over his body." So Nokona was at the battle and was killed there. According to "Empire", also, Ross was not the only one to give an account of the death of Nokona, and no mention is made of the other accounts contradicting his claim to have been the one who killed him.
On what evidence, then, does the author of the main article assert that Ross "fabricated" his account? On what evidence, indeed, do we know that Ross's account was not contemporaneous? Historygamer ( talk) 17:12, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I've rewritten the Pease River Battle section a bit, taking out somewhat biased and un-cited language, and providing the alternative explanation and citations. There ya go! Waliy sherpa ( talk) 04:24, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
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If one refers to the Template:Infobox person, the birthplace is to be described as it was known at the time of the event. The page entry for "birthplace" reads: "Use the name of the birthplace at the time of birth." The name Oklahoma first appears in a Choctaw treaty from 1866, well after Quanah's birth, and does not accurately reflect the name of the territory at that time. The term Indian Territory was in use during the 1840s-1850s, and was not split off with Oklahoma Territory until 1890. I, of course, encourage users to procure the above information for themselves, but would note that they can be found on the pages for Oklahoma, Indian Territory, and Oklahoma Territory, respectively.
Therefore, it stands to reason that Quanah's birthplace should be described as such: "Elk Valley, Wichita Mountains, Indian Territory." In past edits, this has also read "Indian Territory/Comancheria." It is more difficult to trace the origins of the term Comancheria, and it may thereby be left out, unless, as one may argue, it can be applied in the same way that the term "Byzantine Empire," an academic coinage, is used in the place of "Roman Empire" or "East Roman Empire." At least in that case the name "Byzantium" predates the Roman Constantinople, whereas "Oklahoma" emphatically did not exist as a geopolitical term prior to its use by Choctaw Chief Allen Wright in 1866.\ Sethzel ( talk) 18:53, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
Sethzel ( talk) 03:47, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
I have photos of Star House, as well as the home of my mom's mom's Uncle Frank Rush, Indian Agent for Oklahoma Territory before statehood. He was then the Superintendent of the Wichita Falls Wildlife Refuge and personally brought 17 head of Bison back from the NY Zoological society in 1907, working under Dr Hornaday and Theodore Roosevelt. He was greatly respected by Natives even before, but bringing back the great bison spirit to the plains made him legend to native Americans. Chief Quanah Parker was Frank's best friend. Frank knew him well. The Craterville Park near Cache was Uncle Frank Rush's. The descendants did well with the amusement park and bought more. Today known as Six Flags btw.
So yeah, I have pertinent relative photos scanned from mom's photo albums and ready to send. Unfortunately I don't speak wiki and don't know how, am unable to learn due to my work as a C#.NET Software Designer and Developer. (i.e. No time for a new language at this time.)
But have pertinent photos.
Please advise.
Johnpedwards ( talk) 06:06, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Okay, cool. My mom's photo album so yes fully owned but not copyrighted family photos. Give me a few days I'm swamped with beta testing and bug fixes at the moment. Thank for the speedy reply. Johnpedwards ( talk) 07:19, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
In 1957 Quanah Parker and his mother, Cynthia Ann's bodies were moved from Ft. Sill to Chiefs Knoll near Lawton Ok. The re internment was done with full military honors. The person responsible for the ceremony and re internment was my father Command Sargent Major Donald Ray Wilkerson. The post commander picked him because of his heritage. My father was a full blood Creek, born on a reservation in north west Oklahoma. He never forgot the honor of being responsible for the tribute he was able to give Quanah and his mother. I was 10 at the time and will never forget how moving the ceremony was. Michael Wilkerson ( talk) 22:38, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
White English-speaking Americans are almost universally referred to as "Anglos" by Indigenous speakers whether of English, Irish, Scots, German, Scandinavian, etc. origin. It is the term that should be used in all articles about Native North Americans. The Native People of this continent don't note any difference between the atrocities committed by the English or the Scots or the Irish. -- TaivoLinguist (Taivo) ( talk) 21:11, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps this should be added under Memorials and honors (?): Quanah Parker is the namesake of the Quanah Parker District, Golden Spread Council, Boy Scouts of America. Oliver Puertogallera ( talk) 06:32, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Quanah Parker article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The "trivia" states that Quanah Parker was born in the Wichita Mountain area of Oklahoma. While he spent the last 25 year of his life in Wichitas, most historians believe he was born in present day Dawson County, TX as stated in the "Handbook of Texas Online."
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/DD/hcd3.html 70.243.178.104 17:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Help needed from those knowledgable on the subject. I'm just an ignorant, but interested, reader - noticing this discrepancy:
In this article, "Quanah Parker", it states, Cynthia Ann Parker... was given the Indian name Nadua ("Someone Found")...
and
In the closely related article, "Cynthia Ann Parker", it states: Cynthia Ann was named "Naduah" by the Comanches, which means "she carries herself with dignity and grace
Maralrapp 00:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
No sources were ever cited for the claims Quanah was never recognized by his band as a chief, and 6 months have passed, so I eliminated that unsourced claim. If anyone has sources, please let me know, and we can debate this issue further. old windy bear 10:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Amazingly, the current article states that Parker's force won a victory at Abobe Walls, but before correcing that obvious error, perhaps we should ask for the original poster's definition. (The buffalo hunters retained possession of the facility with few losses, in contrast to the Indians, who were repulsed.) In the Wikipedia entry the battle results are listed as 16 Indians killed to 4 whites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Adobe_Walls —Preceding unsigned comment added by BTillman ( talk • contribs) 19:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
hello every one Quanah Parker was the best Comanche chief to me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.233.113.189 ( talk) 22:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Quanah_Parker#Founder_of_the_Native_American_Church_Movement says:
Native_American_Church#The_Native_American_Church_Movement says:
The second version give OC Stewart's "The peyote religion: a history" as a reference, whereas the first is unreferenced, so I'm inclined to go with the latter.
Peter G Werner ( talk) 01:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
As far as Parker being founder of NAC, if he died in 1911 as the Quanah Parker article states he couldn't have been a founder of the NAC as such. Gotta get back to the RW right now I'm thinking of rewriting the section of the NAC on the NAC page with the editing based on The Peyote Cult and properly cited. Any comments about this idea? Moss&Fern ( talk) 00:36, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm reading over Weston La Barre's "The Peyote Cult," and he doesn't say much to the extent of who introduced Peyote to Quanah Parker. Rather a direct quote from the book states, "Quanah Parker, the great Comanche proselytizer of peyote, at first opposed to it, was cured of a stomach ailment in 1884 and became one of the most enthusiastic proponents of the herb." [1] I don't see more than that, and have yet to find any sources claiming that he was gored by a bull or anything of the sort.
As for Quanah Parker being a founder of the Native American Church, I find his founding characteristics to be peripheral, but highly important to note. Not only did he adopt Peyotism in 1884 and begin proselytizing it extensively thereafter, but he encouraged Native Americans to embrace white society and learn their ways as to survive while retaining some of their "Indian-ness." He encouraged Native Americans to go to school and get a white man's education. In 1908 Quanah testified before the Oklahoma legislature and had the anti-peyote law repealed the same year. [2] Thereafter, many former Carlisle students went on to lead Peyote groups and defend Peyotism in the landmark 1918 Carl M. Hayden Anti-Peyote Bill [HR 2614) case that sought to outlaw Peyote for the entire United States. They won, and then with James Mooney's prompting and the aid of other former Carlisle students the Native American Church was incorporated in 1918. [3]
To say Quanah was a direct founder is a stretch, but to insist his influence amongst Native Americans and Peyotists wasn't a catalyst to the NAC's formation seems to be a fallacy. -Caleb Kuntz St.belac ( talk) 08:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
I seriously doubt that a Ute medicine man is the one who first gave him peyote. I am leaning towards he was wounded, (I thought in battle but I wasn't there and do not know nor have I had access to his medical records) and running from the Rangers into the safety of Mexico was given medicines by people there, not the Ute. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.136.34.157 (
talk) 16:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
References
https://wrldrels.org/2016/10/08/native-american-church/ Johnpedwards ( talk) 06:16, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
http://www.stainblue.com/quanahparker.html Johnpedwards ( talk) 07:07, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
I have no idea who he married, how many children he had, and it is missing a BUNCH of important information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.18.141 ( talk) 02:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
The American Indian/Chiefs website is not sourced, so is not a valid source compared to others. There has been much written about Quanah that is well-documented, so editors should go to the books. Parkwells ( talk) 17:44, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
I request that the rating of "low importance" for Quanah by Texas and American West wikigroups be reconsidered. Quanah deserves at least a "mid-importance" rating. Smallchief 15:55, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/566749934329361603/ Johnpedwards ( talk) 07:14, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
There is a serious fault with the article when it claims that Quanah was almost certainly not at the battle of Pease river. The article gives as one of its sources the book "Empire of the Summer Moon". That book, however, draws the opposite conclusion, that Quanah was in fact there.
The glaring discrepancy between the article's claim, and the text of the source cited in support of the claim in the current version of the Quanah Parker page, must at a minimum be acknowledged.
Gwynne, in "Empire", writes "Quanah and Peanuts were at the camp because their mother said they were." There is much more to the argument given in favor of Quanah having been there, and the conclusion is given emphatically. Historygamer ( talk) 01:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
The main article also asserts, without citing any reference, that "... in an effort to further his political career, Sul Ross later fabricated a story wherein he claimed to have killed Peta Nocona at Pease River." But according to "Empire of the Summer Moon", Cynthia Parker was taken to where Nokona had been killed, and she "wept and wailed over his body." So Nokona was at the battle and was killed there. According to "Empire", also, Ross was not the only one to give an account of the death of Nokona, and no mention is made of the other accounts contradicting his claim to have been the one who killed him.
On what evidence, then, does the author of the main article assert that Ross "fabricated" his account? On what evidence, indeed, do we know that Ross's account was not contemporaneous? Historygamer ( talk) 17:12, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I've rewritten the Pease River Battle section a bit, taking out somewhat biased and un-cited language, and providing the alternative explanation and citations. There ya go! Waliy sherpa ( talk) 04:24, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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If one refers to the Template:Infobox person, the birthplace is to be described as it was known at the time of the event. The page entry for "birthplace" reads: "Use the name of the birthplace at the time of birth." The name Oklahoma first appears in a Choctaw treaty from 1866, well after Quanah's birth, and does not accurately reflect the name of the territory at that time. The term Indian Territory was in use during the 1840s-1850s, and was not split off with Oklahoma Territory until 1890. I, of course, encourage users to procure the above information for themselves, but would note that they can be found on the pages for Oklahoma, Indian Territory, and Oklahoma Territory, respectively.
Therefore, it stands to reason that Quanah's birthplace should be described as such: "Elk Valley, Wichita Mountains, Indian Territory." In past edits, this has also read "Indian Territory/Comancheria." It is more difficult to trace the origins of the term Comancheria, and it may thereby be left out, unless, as one may argue, it can be applied in the same way that the term "Byzantine Empire," an academic coinage, is used in the place of "Roman Empire" or "East Roman Empire." At least in that case the name "Byzantium" predates the Roman Constantinople, whereas "Oklahoma" emphatically did not exist as a geopolitical term prior to its use by Choctaw Chief Allen Wright in 1866.\ Sethzel ( talk) 18:53, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
Sethzel ( talk) 03:47, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
I have photos of Star House, as well as the home of my mom's mom's Uncle Frank Rush, Indian Agent for Oklahoma Territory before statehood. He was then the Superintendent of the Wichita Falls Wildlife Refuge and personally brought 17 head of Bison back from the NY Zoological society in 1907, working under Dr Hornaday and Theodore Roosevelt. He was greatly respected by Natives even before, but bringing back the great bison spirit to the plains made him legend to native Americans. Chief Quanah Parker was Frank's best friend. Frank knew him well. The Craterville Park near Cache was Uncle Frank Rush's. The descendants did well with the amusement park and bought more. Today known as Six Flags btw.
So yeah, I have pertinent relative photos scanned from mom's photo albums and ready to send. Unfortunately I don't speak wiki and don't know how, am unable to learn due to my work as a C#.NET Software Designer and Developer. (i.e. No time for a new language at this time.)
But have pertinent photos.
Please advise.
Johnpedwards ( talk) 06:06, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Okay, cool. My mom's photo album so yes fully owned but not copyrighted family photos. Give me a few days I'm swamped with beta testing and bug fixes at the moment. Thank for the speedy reply. Johnpedwards ( talk) 07:19, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
In 1957 Quanah Parker and his mother, Cynthia Ann's bodies were moved from Ft. Sill to Chiefs Knoll near Lawton Ok. The re internment was done with full military honors. The person responsible for the ceremony and re internment was my father Command Sargent Major Donald Ray Wilkerson. The post commander picked him because of his heritage. My father was a full blood Creek, born on a reservation in north west Oklahoma. He never forgot the honor of being responsible for the tribute he was able to give Quanah and his mother. I was 10 at the time and will never forget how moving the ceremony was. Michael Wilkerson ( talk) 22:38, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
White English-speaking Americans are almost universally referred to as "Anglos" by Indigenous speakers whether of English, Irish, Scots, German, Scandinavian, etc. origin. It is the term that should be used in all articles about Native North Americans. The Native People of this continent don't note any difference between the atrocities committed by the English or the Scots or the Irish. -- TaivoLinguist (Taivo) ( talk) 21:11, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps this should be added under Memorials and honors (?): Quanah Parker is the namesake of the Quanah Parker District, Golden Spread Council, Boy Scouts of America. Oliver Puertogallera ( talk) 06:32, 14 March 2023 (UTC)