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 | Text and/or other creative content from this version of School District Public Library was copied or moved into Public libraries in North America with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
I added references to the earliest public libraries in America based on two sources: the diary of Rev. John Sharpe, and the letters of John Checkley. Both men were important to the development of early colonial culture and libraries, and their works have been documented in multiple sources, including the two works I cited in the addition.
Thus I'm a bit confused on the reason for a revert by contributor "Steve Lux, Jr." reverting the addition by based on "All unverifiable sources." The citations are all books that have been digitized and are available on the internet. I could put a link to them in if that would help.
If it also would help, in addition, I could cite "Sharpe, John, “Journal of Rev. John Sharpe”, The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, Volume 40, January 1, 1916, pp. 283-284" Or I could add one or two from about a dozen other articles, books and blogs on him based on his role in founding the NYPL. The Rev. Sharpe's contributions to the history of the American Library have been documented by the New York Public Library in several places ( http://archives.nypl.org/mss/2735), and there are a large number of "blog" entries and articles ( https://www.nysoclib.org/about/articles-about-library) by New York Public Library staff that I did not cite as they were online. In particular, I could add the finding aid "New York Public Library, Archives and Manuscripts, Reverend John Sharpe documents, 1713-1715", and two excellent blogs by library historian Erin Schneier, but I'm not sure that citing finding aids and blog entries are good practice for citations.
Instead of using these, I went to the best known early book on the subject -- which contains a image of Sharpe's letter, just about as close to an original source as you might want. If it would help, I could also add "Sharpe, John, “Journal of Rev. John Sharpe”, The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, Volume 40, January 1, 1916, pp. 283-284" as the source, and there is a JSTOR version of this article as well. I also direct you to two excellent internet essays by Erin Schreiner, The John Sharp Collection at the New York Society Library, Tuesday, December 24, 2013, http://www.nysoclib.org/blog/john-sharp-collection-new-york-society-library, accessed on July 1, 2015). Presumably, these NYPL librarian historians are satisfied with the historical veracity of the Sharpe letters/diaries.
John Checkley's letter is from the well known by on him by Slafter. Checkley in important because he was the man who funded Jame Franklin's street print shop and newspaper, and where Benjamin Franklin was an apprentice. He is likely one on the men mentioned in Franklin's autobiography. Franklin in many of his early 1730 civic improvements was actually modeling his work (and himself) on Checkley, including the publick libary next cited in the article.
If citing more secondary sources addresses your concern, they can be added. As parts of the article cite Routers news releases (certainly a transient source), I should expect a citation of the book to be good enough for Wikipedia standards and certainly for this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrycroswell ( talk • contribs) 09:22, 18 September 2015
- @ Harrycroswell: Thanks for explaining, but it seems like Steve Lux, Jr. has misinterpreted WP:V. "Verifiable" means that if you read something on Wikipedia, there should be a reliable source that backs it up. Any reliable source, regardless of a reader's ability to access it. Accessible is better, but not having access to the sources cited is never a reason to remove content. See WP:SOURCEACCESS. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:54, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks Rhododendrites, that was my understanding of Wikipedia policy as well. I've "undone" the revert. This talk section will do for more citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrycroswell ( talk • contribs) 15:23, 18 September 2015
The section "Carnegie libraries" begins one paragraph
- A total of 2,509 Carnegie libraries were built between 1883 and 1929, including some belonging to universities.
while the second sentence of the next paragraph reads
- Carnegie systematically funded 2,507 libraries throughout the English-speaking world.
Which number is correct? Thnidu ( talk) 06:22, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Where’s Mexico? — Wiki Wikardo 22:10, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
Also Central America? As long as Mexico and the Central American countries are missing, this entry is inaccurate and should be flagged as incomplete.
The suggestion that there was a public library in New York before 1754 is questionable.
There is some confusion between parish/parochial libraries, and public libraries -- a confusion shared by men at the time as well as today. A suggestion was recently added to the page that the NYPL was established in 1729 based on "the collection of Dr. Millington". The two references are garbled due to quoting google books URLs (I've done the same thing, and I've learned to stick with text references only), but appear to be from two books:"The Goede Vrouw of Mana-ha-ta at Home and in Society, 1609-1760, By Mrs. John King Van Rensselaer, 1898, and "History for Ready Reference: Greece-Nibelungenlied, 1895 By Josephus Nelson Larned, page 2019."
There is an earlier and more useful reference in Jewett, Charles Coffin, Notices of Public Libraries in U.S.A., Printed for the House of representatives, 1851, pp. 86-87, suggesting that the 1754 NYPL "was engrafted upon the "Public Library of New York," founded in 1700. (See Grahame's United States* Minutes of the Common Council of New York, &c.) Grahame says, "a library was founded under the government of Lord Bellamont, in 1700."
Jewett adds that "In 1729 the Rev. Dr. Millington, rector of Newington, England, bequeathed his library to the society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts. By this society the library of Dr. Millington was presented to the corporation of the city, for the use of the clergy and gentlemen of New York, and the neighboring provinces."
Given that the donation was from an English clergyman for SPG's use, the 1700 library was probably a parochial library (Anglican Church library), not a modern public one, despite the name -- as Rev. Sharpe noted in his letter. I suggest we replace the reference to Dr. Millington with "a parochial library was opened in 1700", with a reference to the Jewett 1851 book. Harrycroswell ( talk) 15:06, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
Proposed merge with School District Public Library
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This info is not present in the Public libraries in North America article, and does not seem enough for a stand-alone article, so the encyclopedia would be improved if this info was added, sourced, to that article with a redirect from this title. Pam D 07:49, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
The US context for public libraries differs significantly from other countries in North America. [1] A separate article that discusses US national and local history, policy, funding, operations, etc., would be useful. Thoughts? -- M2545 ( talk) 10:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
References
- ^ Public Libraries Survey, Institute of Museum and Library Services, retrieved December 21, 2020
- Agree with split to a US section. Gusfriend ( talk) 10:37, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support. -- Oa01 ( talk) 10:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Support. -- YoungstownToast ( talk) 05:53, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- Support -- the entire article should be split into the three countries included. It is missing too many countries to successfully cover the topic. Rublamb ( talk) 06:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
There appears to be sufficient information for a Canada page. Gusfriend ( talk) 10:37, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support creation of separate article on public libraries in Canada. -- Oa01 ( talk) 10:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Support. -- YoungstownToast ( talk) 05:53, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- Support -- as stated above. Rublamb ( talk) 06:06, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
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| Text and/or other creative content from this version of School District Public Library was copied or moved into Public libraries in North America with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
I added references to the earliest public libraries in America based on two sources: the diary of Rev. John Sharpe, and the letters of John Checkley. Both men were important to the development of early colonial culture and libraries, and their works have been documented in multiple sources, including the two works I cited in the addition.
Thus I'm a bit confused on the reason for a revert by contributor "Steve Lux, Jr." reverting the addition by based on "All unverifiable sources." The citations are all books that have been digitized and are available on the internet. I could put a link to them in if that would help.
If it also would help, in addition, I could cite "Sharpe, John, “Journal of Rev. John Sharpe”, The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, Volume 40, January 1, 1916, pp. 283-284" Or I could add one or two from about a dozen other articles, books and blogs on him based on his role in founding the NYPL. The Rev. Sharpe's contributions to the history of the American Library have been documented by the New York Public Library in several places ( http://archives.nypl.org/mss/2735), and there are a large number of "blog" entries and articles ( https://www.nysoclib.org/about/articles-about-library) by New York Public Library staff that I did not cite as they were online. In particular, I could add the finding aid "New York Public Library, Archives and Manuscripts, Reverend John Sharpe documents, 1713-1715", and two excellent blogs by library historian Erin Schneier, but I'm not sure that citing finding aids and blog entries are good practice for citations.
Instead of using these, I went to the best known early book on the subject -- which contains a image of Sharpe's letter, just about as close to an original source as you might want. If it would help, I could also add "Sharpe, John, “Journal of Rev. John Sharpe”, The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, Volume 40, January 1, 1916, pp. 283-284" as the source, and there is a JSTOR version of this article as well. I also direct you to two excellent internet essays by Erin Schreiner, The John Sharp Collection at the New York Society Library, Tuesday, December 24, 2013, http://www.nysoclib.org/blog/john-sharp-collection-new-york-society-library, accessed on July 1, 2015). Presumably, these NYPL librarian historians are satisfied with the historical veracity of the Sharpe letters/diaries.
John Checkley's letter is from the well known by on him by Slafter. Checkley in important because he was the man who funded Jame Franklin's street print shop and newspaper, and where Benjamin Franklin was an apprentice. He is likely one on the men mentioned in Franklin's autobiography. Franklin in many of his early 1730 civic improvements was actually modeling his work (and himself) on Checkley, including the publick libary next cited in the article.
If citing more secondary sources addresses your concern, they can be added. As parts of the article cite Routers news releases (certainly a transient source), I should expect a citation of the book to be good enough for Wikipedia standards and certainly for this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrycroswell ( talk • contribs) 09:22, 18 September 2015
- @ Harrycroswell: Thanks for explaining, but it seems like Steve Lux, Jr. has misinterpreted WP:V. "Verifiable" means that if you read something on Wikipedia, there should be a reliable source that backs it up. Any reliable source, regardless of a reader's ability to access it. Accessible is better, but not having access to the sources cited is never a reason to remove content. See WP:SOURCEACCESS. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:54, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks Rhododendrites, that was my understanding of Wikipedia policy as well. I've "undone" the revert. This talk section will do for more citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrycroswell ( talk • contribs) 15:23, 18 September 2015
The section "Carnegie libraries" begins one paragraph
- A total of 2,509 Carnegie libraries were built between 1883 and 1929, including some belonging to universities.
while the second sentence of the next paragraph reads
- Carnegie systematically funded 2,507 libraries throughout the English-speaking world.
Which number is correct? Thnidu ( talk) 06:22, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Where’s Mexico? — Wiki Wikardo 22:10, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
Also Central America? As long as Mexico and the Central American countries are missing, this entry is inaccurate and should be flagged as incomplete.
The suggestion that there was a public library in New York before 1754 is questionable.
There is some confusion between parish/parochial libraries, and public libraries -- a confusion shared by men at the time as well as today. A suggestion was recently added to the page that the NYPL was established in 1729 based on "the collection of Dr. Millington". The two references are garbled due to quoting google books URLs (I've done the same thing, and I've learned to stick with text references only), but appear to be from two books:"The Goede Vrouw of Mana-ha-ta at Home and in Society, 1609-1760, By Mrs. John King Van Rensselaer, 1898, and "History for Ready Reference: Greece-Nibelungenlied, 1895 By Josephus Nelson Larned, page 2019."
There is an earlier and more useful reference in Jewett, Charles Coffin, Notices of Public Libraries in U.S.A., Printed for the House of representatives, 1851, pp. 86-87, suggesting that the 1754 NYPL "was engrafted upon the "Public Library of New York," founded in 1700. (See Grahame's United States* Minutes of the Common Council of New York, &c.) Grahame says, "a library was founded under the government of Lord Bellamont, in 1700."
Jewett adds that "In 1729 the Rev. Dr. Millington, rector of Newington, England, bequeathed his library to the society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts. By this society the library of Dr. Millington was presented to the corporation of the city, for the use of the clergy and gentlemen of New York, and the neighboring provinces."
Given that the donation was from an English clergyman for SPG's use, the 1700 library was probably a parochial library (Anglican Church library), not a modern public one, despite the name -- as Rev. Sharpe noted in his letter. I suggest we replace the reference to Dr. Millington with "a parochial library was opened in 1700", with a reference to the Jewett 1851 book. Harrycroswell ( talk) 15:06, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
Proposed merge with School District Public Library
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This info is not present in the Public libraries in North America article, and does not seem enough for a stand-alone article, so the encyclopedia would be improved if this info was added, sourced, to that article with a redirect from this title. Pam D 07:49, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
The US context for public libraries differs significantly from other countries in North America. [1] A separate article that discusses US national and local history, policy, funding, operations, etc., would be useful. Thoughts? -- M2545 ( talk) 10:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
References
- ^ Public Libraries Survey, Institute of Museum and Library Services, retrieved December 21, 2020
- Agree with split to a US section. Gusfriend ( talk) 10:37, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support. -- Oa01 ( talk) 10:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Support. -- YoungstownToast ( talk) 05:53, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- Support -- the entire article should be split into the three countries included. It is missing too many countries to successfully cover the topic. Rublamb ( talk) 06:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
There appears to be sufficient information for a Canada page. Gusfriend ( talk) 10:37, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support creation of separate article on public libraries in Canada. -- Oa01 ( talk) 10:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Support. -- YoungstownToast ( talk) 05:53, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- Support -- as stated above. Rublamb ( talk) 06:06, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)