This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the
legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
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A fact from Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 April 2024 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Neutrality, please explain your drastic changes first before pushing them into the article. Thank you.
CurryCity (
talk) 21:58, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
As I explained in the edit summaries, your edits have massively removed well-sourced material and inserted content not directly supported by the cited source. Your seemingly random removals of text have resulted in quotes not supported by the citation used. Not cool.
Neutralitytalk 22:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
As I have explained in my edit summary, my concern is that you are using sources that predate coverage of this article's subject. This risks introducing content forks, original research, outdated and unbalanced information. I have summarised the background using only sources that are more recent and relevant to this PAFACA.
CurryCity (
talk) 22:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
This makes no sense whatsoever. This is an encyclopedia. Our policies aren't buzzwords to be invoked without explanation.
Neutralitytalk 22:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Using outdated sources that do not mention an article's subject would allow anyone to add old information of their choosing to a new topic regardless of balance and due weight.
CurryCity (
talk) 22:51, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Which "sources" are "outdated" or "don't mention the article's subject"? What's "old information"? I have no clue what you are going on about. Is this some sort of strange dilatory tactic?
Neutralitytalk 23:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Ones that are old and not reporting on PAFACA were removed
[1]. I have restored the Axios source because it was easily missed at first, but as you can see, most of the new ones you added that actually mention this latest bill I did not remove them.
CurryCity (
talk) 10:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Individual concerns
List some of the other concerns you have because it is not easy to tell from edit summaries.
CurryCity (
talk) 22:12, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
First two sentences under "National security concerns": after your random removals, there are two quotes that do not appear in the cited source. Under "Response": you shoved in loaded, flagrantly POV language ("criminalisation of pro-Palestinian voices on social media, where TikTok has been used to expose and condemn Israel's atrocities") that is not supported by the cited source. If you edit, you need to have a firm grasp of the English language, and a firm grasp of Wikipedia policies, including the really basic stuff:
everything needs to be directly supported by a cited source and
we follow the neutral point of view.
Neutralitytalk 22:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I have asked you politely to list the sentences and am asking you again to do so in a way that is easier to review.
CurryCity (
talk) 22:51, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
"criminalisation of pro-Palestinian voices on social media, where TikTok has been used to expose and condemn Israel's atrocities"[1] What are your concerns and suggestion?
References
^"US pro-Israel Jewish group backs ban on 'antisemitic' TikTok". The New Arab. 13 March 2024. Critics say supporters of Israel are weaponising antisemitism to defend Israel's war on Gaza and the criminalisation of pro-Palestinian voices, including on social media. TikTok has been an important tool for activists and users to expose the genocide in Gaza and condemn Israel's atrocities.
OK, to be clear: you're admitting that the prior text, which you shoved into the article at least twice, was not supported by the cited source? And then, once called out on it, you're introducing a new source to try to post hoc support it? And, for the record: the new source you're offering is low-quality, it is
undue weight, and it still doesn't support the assertion made (we can't take a "critics say..." statement and then use it for a statement in wikivoice). This is really painfully obvious stuff. And, I'm not going to play
whac-a-mole, statement-by-statement, like this. Just stop and familiarize yourself with core Wiki policies.
Neutralitytalk 23:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I only restored some of your changes and cannot be held responsible for every edit that happened before then, but clearly it was not in wikivoice in the first place
[2] "Critics, however, objected to the criminalisation of pro-Palestinian voices on social media, where TikTok has been used to expose and condemn Israel's atrocities", so your characterisation is inaccurate.
CurryCity (
talk) 23:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
@
InfiniteNexus: To explain, the bill that Biden signed into law today is the National Security Act, 2024. The House of Representatives amended the RELIEVE Act to include the 21st Century Peace through Strength Act. The Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act referred to in the National Security Act is a separate legislative entity. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Wait, so the "Protecting" and "21st Century" acts are both part of the same National Security Act? If so, then let's move this article to
National Security Act, 2024 and merge the info you had on the Proposed divestment article. In any case, we shouldn't have so many articles covering the same thing.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 19:27, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The 21st Century Peace through Strength Act's provisions were merged into the National Security Act. The act, as passed by Biden, includes the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act. The National Security Act also includes the provisions for aid to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. It would be improper to move this page given that. I have created
National Security Act, 2024 to cover the act's provisions, as it appears that such a substantial expenditure will have some impact on the war in Ukraine. I support merging this article into that one. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
If the National Security Act includes both the Protecting Americans and 21st Century provisions, then I don't see why they can't co-exist on the same article about the foreign aid.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 19:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
No, please don't. We can resolve this speedily through normal discussion; RM takes forever and only does a disservice to readers. If there are concerns after we sort this out, then an RM may be held, but I think there wouldn't be any opposition to fixing the current state of mess (which I too am confused with).
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 19:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I was thinking we should move this article to whatever the final/overarching legislation is called, and then merge the contents of the other article(s) here.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 19:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
If it is
National Security Act, 2024, I think the article with more history (the one this talk is for) should be kept, and that it should be adapted with relevant information, such as from the article currently at
National Security Act, 2024, which itself would be merged into the article. –Gluonztalkcontribs 20:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Consider that the National Security Act, 2024 is independently notable for its appropriations to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. The TikTok portion of the bill is not the entirety of its scope. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 20:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
So we would rename the article and include information about those, while keeping the article that has the most history. –Gluonztalkcontribs 20:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Then I guess we're back to my original alt proposal to reverse-merge the "Proposed divestment" article into here, and then move it to a generic title like
Proposed TikTok ban in the United States (I think calling this a "proposal ... by ByteDance" is ambiguous). Even if it's not exactly a ban, it effectively is, and it's already demonstrably the common name.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 20:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
(This is under my assumption that "Protecting" and "21st Century" are two completely separate entities. If this isn't accurate, please correct me.)
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 20:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
We are? I had not been mentioning that article. I am not so sure we should give this a generic title, but I suppose we can. –Gluonztalkcontribs 20:42, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) I was referring to the original merge discussion on that page. My number one preference is still to rename this to the "final" iteration of the legislation, but apparently that final form is the National Security Act that includes the foreign aid package (which is why they were able to pass this so quickly), and an editor believes we should have separate articles for the act as a whole and its two TikTok provisions (Protecting and 21st Century). The alternative to a generic title would be
Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act and the 21st Century Peace through Strength Act, which obviously wouldn't work.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Why should we have separate articles for the Act as a whole and its TikTok-related provisions? I believe they could be under one article. –Gluonztalkcontribs 21:04, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree that the best course is to merge/redirecting this article on previous proposals to the enacted version. It can be discussed in a "legislative history" section.
Neutralitytalk 20:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Wait a minute, according to
this source, the National Security Act contains four bills, three of which are about foreign aid and the last of which is the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act, "which includes a modified version of the TikTok ban that passed the House earlier this year". It seems this article should remain at its current title and its contents be adjusted accordingly. Not sure whether
National Security Act, 2024 should exist as a separate page or be merged here.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The final legislation contains four primary divisions, as the article mentions. The Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act and 21st Century Peace through Strength Act exist in the National Security Act. The sanctions against Iran, Syria, and Hamas in the 21st Century Peace through Strength Act do not appear to warrant a separate article. The independent Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act did not officially pass in the Senate, only the version mentioned in the National Security Act. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Based on my understanding, the Protecting act was modified and incorporated into the 21st Century act, which was then passed as part of the National Security Act that Biden signed today. Is that correct? So, since the 21st Century act includes other things unrelated to TikTok, as does the National Security Act that includes three other bills, this article should stay as it is.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:31, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes, but the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act that was passed in March is not the same entity as the act that was passed in the National Security Act. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
It doesn't matter though, 21st Century just includes a "modified version" of PAFACA. We can't name this article 21st Century because it includes other unrelated things, and we can't call this article National Security Act because it also includes other things.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I propose that this article be merged into the National Security Act article and the divestment article remain as it is in order to encompass any legal challenges in greater detail; the National Security Act is not all about TikTok.
InfiniteNexus, I ask that you reconsider your bold redirect until this has been discussed in full. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
So now you believe there should not be separate articles for the National Security Act as a whole and the PAFACA/21st Century bill? If so, just copy-and-paste the contents of that new page, redirect it here, and then we can move this page there. I'm not sure what you mean by my BOLD redirect of the
Proposed divestment of TikTok by ByteDance page, which consensus had already decided shouldn't exist.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
No. The National Security Act article needs to cover the entirety of that act's provisions, without additional weight for the TikTok divestment portion. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:50, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Re-reading your comment. You seem to be saying there should be one article about the National Security Act and another about the TikTok bill(s). Regardless of what the latter article is titled, it should result from a move of this page because it has the oldest history.
That article already exists. It is
Restrictions on TikTok in the United States, with information dating back to the Trump administration. This article (regardless of what it ends up being titled) is about the recent (2024) effort to ban TikTok.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree that determining the notability of the other bills is important. I support a move to
National Security Act, 2024, so long as its other provisions are notable enough to warrant this. –Gluonztalkcontribs 12:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
In the alternative case, the article currently at
National Security Act, 2024 could be redirected and the existing article kept at its current title. If the National Security Act is notable enough to have its own article but not a substantial amount of content, the status quo could be kept with both articles remaining. I do not support a move to
21st Century Peace Through Strength Act, as that is at an intermediate level in the hierarchy of this law. Moving to a generic name is an opinion if the above options do not work out. –Gluonztalkcontribs 14:34, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
There's only one enacted act. The text (
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815/text) clarifies. The final legislation (inartfully called H.R. 815,
long title "Making emergency supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2024, and for other purposes" but usually just called the
2024 national security supplemental) incorporates different (formerly separate) pieces of legislation as separate "divisions." So the TikTok provisions are Division H of the Act, the 21st Century Peace through Strength Act is Division D, the Israel aid is Division A, the Ukraine aid is Division B, the Taiwan aide is Division C, etc. I think it's most more efficient to handle all in one unified article, with separate subsections.
Neutralitytalk 22:50, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
"DIVISION H—PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM FOREIGN ADVERSARY CONTROLLED APPLICATIONS ACT" appears to be part of "DIVISION D—21ST CENTURY PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH ACT", according to the
table of contents nested under Division D. The White House
calls the overall legislation H.R. 815; I don't see any mention of "National Security Act" and am wondering where ElijahPepe came up with that. That is basically what was already established above: there was the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act, which was then incorporated into the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act, which was then incorporated into H.R.815 (a.k.a. "National Security Act").
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 23:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I found it:
[3]. This Act may be cited as the "National Security Act, 2024"InfiniteNexus (
talk) 23:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Slight correction, an amended version of the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act was included in the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act. The distinction is important, because what the House passed independently and what appeared in the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act are different, even without consideration for the extended timeframe for ByteDance to divest TikTok. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Remain or rename. The efforts to ban TikTok since late 2023 are notable due to the heavy media coverage. The other acts are there only to fast-track this. They have very different purpose, background, and legislative histories and are not nearly as notable without the part about banning TikTok.
Newsback (
talk) 23:33, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the
legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject TikTok, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
TikTok on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TikTokWikipedia:WikiProject TikTokTemplate:WikiProject TikTokTikTok articles
A fact from Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 April 2024 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Neutrality, please explain your drastic changes first before pushing them into the article. Thank you.
CurryCity (
talk) 21:58, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
As I explained in the edit summaries, your edits have massively removed well-sourced material and inserted content not directly supported by the cited source. Your seemingly random removals of text have resulted in quotes not supported by the citation used. Not cool.
Neutralitytalk 22:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
As I have explained in my edit summary, my concern is that you are using sources that predate coverage of this article's subject. This risks introducing content forks, original research, outdated and unbalanced information. I have summarised the background using only sources that are more recent and relevant to this PAFACA.
CurryCity (
talk) 22:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
This makes no sense whatsoever. This is an encyclopedia. Our policies aren't buzzwords to be invoked without explanation.
Neutralitytalk 22:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Using outdated sources that do not mention an article's subject would allow anyone to add old information of their choosing to a new topic regardless of balance and due weight.
CurryCity (
talk) 22:51, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Which "sources" are "outdated" or "don't mention the article's subject"? What's "old information"? I have no clue what you are going on about. Is this some sort of strange dilatory tactic?
Neutralitytalk 23:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Ones that are old and not reporting on PAFACA were removed
[1]. I have restored the Axios source because it was easily missed at first, but as you can see, most of the new ones you added that actually mention this latest bill I did not remove them.
CurryCity (
talk) 10:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Individual concerns
List some of the other concerns you have because it is not easy to tell from edit summaries.
CurryCity (
talk) 22:12, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
First two sentences under "National security concerns": after your random removals, there are two quotes that do not appear in the cited source. Under "Response": you shoved in loaded, flagrantly POV language ("criminalisation of pro-Palestinian voices on social media, where TikTok has been used to expose and condemn Israel's atrocities") that is not supported by the cited source. If you edit, you need to have a firm grasp of the English language, and a firm grasp of Wikipedia policies, including the really basic stuff:
everything needs to be directly supported by a cited source and
we follow the neutral point of view.
Neutralitytalk 22:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I have asked you politely to list the sentences and am asking you again to do so in a way that is easier to review.
CurryCity (
talk) 22:51, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
"criminalisation of pro-Palestinian voices on social media, where TikTok has been used to expose and condemn Israel's atrocities"[1] What are your concerns and suggestion?
References
^"US pro-Israel Jewish group backs ban on 'antisemitic' TikTok". The New Arab. 13 March 2024. Critics say supporters of Israel are weaponising antisemitism to defend Israel's war on Gaza and the criminalisation of pro-Palestinian voices, including on social media. TikTok has been an important tool for activists and users to expose the genocide in Gaza and condemn Israel's atrocities.
OK, to be clear: you're admitting that the prior text, which you shoved into the article at least twice, was not supported by the cited source? And then, once called out on it, you're introducing a new source to try to post hoc support it? And, for the record: the new source you're offering is low-quality, it is
undue weight, and it still doesn't support the assertion made (we can't take a "critics say..." statement and then use it for a statement in wikivoice). This is really painfully obvious stuff. And, I'm not going to play
whac-a-mole, statement-by-statement, like this. Just stop and familiarize yourself with core Wiki policies.
Neutralitytalk 23:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I only restored some of your changes and cannot be held responsible for every edit that happened before then, but clearly it was not in wikivoice in the first place
[2] "Critics, however, objected to the criminalisation of pro-Palestinian voices on social media, where TikTok has been used to expose and condemn Israel's atrocities", so your characterisation is inaccurate.
CurryCity (
talk) 23:29, 19 April 2024 (UTC)reply
@
InfiniteNexus: To explain, the bill that Biden signed into law today is the National Security Act, 2024. The House of Representatives amended the RELIEVE Act to include the 21st Century Peace through Strength Act. The Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act referred to in the National Security Act is a separate legislative entity. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Wait, so the "Protecting" and "21st Century" acts are both part of the same National Security Act? If so, then let's move this article to
National Security Act, 2024 and merge the info you had on the Proposed divestment article. In any case, we shouldn't have so many articles covering the same thing.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 19:27, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The 21st Century Peace through Strength Act's provisions were merged into the National Security Act. The act, as passed by Biden, includes the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act. The National Security Act also includes the provisions for aid to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. It would be improper to move this page given that. I have created
National Security Act, 2024 to cover the act's provisions, as it appears that such a substantial expenditure will have some impact on the war in Ukraine. I support merging this article into that one. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
If the National Security Act includes both the Protecting Americans and 21st Century provisions, then I don't see why they can't co-exist on the same article about the foreign aid.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 19:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
No, please don't. We can resolve this speedily through normal discussion; RM takes forever and only does a disservice to readers. If there are concerns after we sort this out, then an RM may be held, but I think there wouldn't be any opposition to fixing the current state of mess (which I too am confused with).
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 19:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I was thinking we should move this article to whatever the final/overarching legislation is called, and then merge the contents of the other article(s) here.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 19:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
If it is
National Security Act, 2024, I think the article with more history (the one this talk is for) should be kept, and that it should be adapted with relevant information, such as from the article currently at
National Security Act, 2024, which itself would be merged into the article. –Gluonztalkcontribs 20:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Consider that the National Security Act, 2024 is independently notable for its appropriations to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. The TikTok portion of the bill is not the entirety of its scope. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 20:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
So we would rename the article and include information about those, while keeping the article that has the most history. –Gluonztalkcontribs 20:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Then I guess we're back to my original alt proposal to reverse-merge the "Proposed divestment" article into here, and then move it to a generic title like
Proposed TikTok ban in the United States (I think calling this a "proposal ... by ByteDance" is ambiguous). Even if it's not exactly a ban, it effectively is, and it's already demonstrably the common name.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 20:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
(This is under my assumption that "Protecting" and "21st Century" are two completely separate entities. If this isn't accurate, please correct me.)
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 20:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
We are? I had not been mentioning that article. I am not so sure we should give this a generic title, but I suppose we can. –Gluonztalkcontribs 20:42, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) I was referring to the original merge discussion on that page. My number one preference is still to rename this to the "final" iteration of the legislation, but apparently that final form is the National Security Act that includes the foreign aid package (which is why they were able to pass this so quickly), and an editor believes we should have separate articles for the act as a whole and its two TikTok provisions (Protecting and 21st Century). The alternative to a generic title would be
Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act and the 21st Century Peace through Strength Act, which obviously wouldn't work.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Why should we have separate articles for the Act as a whole and its TikTok-related provisions? I believe they could be under one article. –Gluonztalkcontribs 21:04, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree that the best course is to merge/redirecting this article on previous proposals to the enacted version. It can be discussed in a "legislative history" section.
Neutralitytalk 20:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Wait a minute, according to
this source, the National Security Act contains four bills, three of which are about foreign aid and the last of which is the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act, "which includes a modified version of the TikTok ban that passed the House earlier this year". It seems this article should remain at its current title and its contents be adjusted accordingly. Not sure whether
National Security Act, 2024 should exist as a separate page or be merged here.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The final legislation contains four primary divisions, as the article mentions. The Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act and 21st Century Peace through Strength Act exist in the National Security Act. The sanctions against Iran, Syria, and Hamas in the 21st Century Peace through Strength Act do not appear to warrant a separate article. The independent Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act did not officially pass in the Senate, only the version mentioned in the National Security Act. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Based on my understanding, the Protecting act was modified and incorporated into the 21st Century act, which was then passed as part of the National Security Act that Biden signed today. Is that correct? So, since the 21st Century act includes other things unrelated to TikTok, as does the National Security Act that includes three other bills, this article should stay as it is.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:31, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes, but the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act that was passed in March is not the same entity as the act that was passed in the National Security Act. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
It doesn't matter though, 21st Century just includes a "modified version" of PAFACA. We can't name this article 21st Century because it includes other unrelated things, and we can't call this article National Security Act because it also includes other things.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I propose that this article be merged into the National Security Act article and the divestment article remain as it is in order to encompass any legal challenges in greater detail; the National Security Act is not all about TikTok.
InfiniteNexus, I ask that you reconsider your bold redirect until this has been discussed in full. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
So now you believe there should not be separate articles for the National Security Act as a whole and the PAFACA/21st Century bill? If so, just copy-and-paste the contents of that new page, redirect it here, and then we can move this page there. I'm not sure what you mean by my BOLD redirect of the
Proposed divestment of TikTok by ByteDance page, which consensus had already decided shouldn't exist.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
No. The National Security Act article needs to cover the entirety of that act's provisions, without additional weight for the TikTok divestment portion. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:50, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Re-reading your comment. You seem to be saying there should be one article about the National Security Act and another about the TikTok bill(s). Regardless of what the latter article is titled, it should result from a move of this page because it has the oldest history.
That article already exists. It is
Restrictions on TikTok in the United States, with information dating back to the Trump administration. This article (regardless of what it ends up being titled) is about the recent (2024) effort to ban TikTok.
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree that determining the notability of the other bills is important. I support a move to
National Security Act, 2024, so long as its other provisions are notable enough to warrant this. –Gluonztalkcontribs 12:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
In the alternative case, the article currently at
National Security Act, 2024 could be redirected and the existing article kept at its current title. If the National Security Act is notable enough to have its own article but not a substantial amount of content, the status quo could be kept with both articles remaining. I do not support a move to
21st Century Peace Through Strength Act, as that is at an intermediate level in the hierarchy of this law. Moving to a generic name is an opinion if the above options do not work out. –Gluonztalkcontribs 14:34, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
There's only one enacted act. The text (
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815/text) clarifies. The final legislation (inartfully called H.R. 815,
long title "Making emergency supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2024, and for other purposes" but usually just called the
2024 national security supplemental) incorporates different (formerly separate) pieces of legislation as separate "divisions." So the TikTok provisions are Division H of the Act, the 21st Century Peace through Strength Act is Division D, the Israel aid is Division A, the Ukraine aid is Division B, the Taiwan aide is Division C, etc. I think it's most more efficient to handle all in one unified article, with separate subsections.
Neutralitytalk 22:50, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
"DIVISION H—PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM FOREIGN ADVERSARY CONTROLLED APPLICATIONS ACT" appears to be part of "DIVISION D—21ST CENTURY PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH ACT", according to the
table of contents nested under Division D. The White House
calls the overall legislation H.R. 815; I don't see any mention of "National Security Act" and am wondering where ElijahPepe came up with that. That is basically what was already established above: there was the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act, which was then incorporated into the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act, which was then incorporated into H.R.815 (a.k.a. "National Security Act").
InfiniteNexus (
talk) 23:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I found it:
[3]. This Act may be cited as the "National Security Act, 2024"InfiniteNexus (
talk) 23:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Slight correction, an amended version of the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act was included in the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act. The distinction is important, because what the House passed independently and what appeared in the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act are different, even without consideration for the extended timeframe for ByteDance to divest TikTok. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Remain or rename. The efforts to ban TikTok since late 2023 are notable due to the heavy media coverage. The other acts are there only to fast-track this. They have very different purpose, background, and legislative histories and are not nearly as notable without the part about banning TikTok.
Newsback (
talk) 23:33, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply