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Nobody is perfect but that his biography only consists out of his (supposedly) comments towards gay people is bizar. Looks more like online harassment to me. Why did his family moved from South Africa? What is known about his school time? Who and what influenced him making music? Is he famous in his region? What was his first breakthrough world wide? etc. 85.199.104.153 ( talk) 16:48, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Why wouldn't this meet the notability guidlines? I love Pogo's music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.16.141 ( talk) 01:08, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Keep. The Wall Street Journal reported about Pogo's latest exploits of Pixar's UP. [1]-- Conrad Kilroy ( talk) 19:25, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I fixed the image, but I have no idea where it's from and tineye gave me nothing. If someone would like to upload a better photo (I'm looking at http://www.flickr.com/photos/pogomix/4735881575/in/photostream/ right now), please feel free. Aar ► 01:33, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Please keep this article. I have found the discography very helpful recently. -- RND T C 21:48, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Is there a reason that this article makes no mention of his previous handle, Fagotron? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TychaBrahe ( talk • contribs) 17:57, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
“He took part in a project hosted by Disney/Pixar to produce a track based on their film, Up, titled "UPular".”
The article shows Disney as a partner. All past controversy have disappeared [2]. Alice was never officially offline for a while and only illegally backuped by fans. As Sony never shut down Bangarang.
Citation was duly needed. Let have some Pogo quotes:
Why was he talking about things that hadn't happen?
Lacrymocéphale 19:27, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
Can anyone back this up, I'm pretty sure he is a Kiwi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.125.233 ( talk) 07:30, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that many of the songs found in archives of his downloads and store pages, such as "Benny's Book Store" and "Re-Existence," are not in the discography section.
The so-called music videos lack third party sources. We cannot link to the youtube channel of the artist as his material is a likely copyright violation. Karst ( talk) 09:42, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, this section isn't really a consensus. Unless he's been sued and someone has won, there is no evidence that he's actually violated any copyright. No one here is a lawyer, and your opinion is original research. A primary source is a reference for content. Regardless of whether or not you think it may violate copyright. Wikipedia links to all kinds of things that could potentially violate copyright.-- 59.6.95.81 ( talk) 03:21, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm seeing two activist blogs (Waxy and We Hunted the Mammoth) as the sole source for the whole thing. Neither fit the [WP:RS] guidelines at all. The other link to Crowder at least has the justification that it's used solely to document that Bertke was on the show. The specific quotes are fine so long as they're accurate, notable, and representative (I haven't checked yet).
So there's a sourcing problem, and given that this makes allegations of misogyny (or, narrowly, gives weight to the allegations on those blogs), I think it also triggers a [WP:BLP] issue.
Can someone produce a reliable source documenting the controversy? I'd prefer not to delete the entire section but BLP suggests we need to err on the side of deletion if there isn't proper sourcing. 131.96.47.18 ( talk) 10:50, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I think that the section about Pogo's political views shouldn't added until a reliable source appears. The sources that are currently being used seem to fall under "Self-published sources (online and paper)".
JohnnyNumma ( talk) 19:37, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
Information removed per WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTSOAPBOX. Spintendo ᔦᔭ 00:59, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Not strictly related to misogyny but Pogo has just put up a video on his YT channel called Why I called my channel Fagottron which was also covered here. I'll leave it to the community to decide if there's merit in a 'controversy' section?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.130.57.80 ( talk) 02:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Pogo (electronic musician) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
This information needs to be included. It was accidentally removed as vandalism. The mentioned scandal is driving a huge amount of traffic (and vandalism) to this page. This is relevant, important and verifiable information. In a 2018 YouTube video, Bertke stated that he has a "fairly robust resentment of the gay community," and that he's "always had a very thorough dislike of homosexuality." In the same video, Bertke recalls his celebrating the Orlando nightclub shooting, in which a terrorist attack in a gay nightclub in Florida in 2016 killed 49 and wounded 53, [1] before saying he finds it "fantastic" to see "the West actually welcoming in a culture that wants to see gays dead." [2] Bisaknospus ( talk) 15:45, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
References
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
Eggishorn
(talk)
(contrib) 16:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Agree with this. Why is this information not being included when there is a clear citation containing a link to the video of him saying precisely this?
Vorpal22 (
talk) 19:53, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed the passage per BLP concerns. I don't consider the single source strong enough to include the passage as written. I think we can do better in finding an encyclopedic way of putting this in the article. Valeince ( talk) 23:10, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
It also seems to be at least as notable, based on secondary source coverage, as his music being used on Louder With Crowder or his visa issue. Who is to say whether future coverage of him will discuss that video or not? It seems premature to say that this but isn't notable just because no one has written about Pogo at all in the weeks after right when the news about the video came out. Umimmak ( talk) 03:50, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
In a YouTube livestream that was uploaded in 2016, Bertke stated that he has a "fairly robust resentment of the gay community". [1] On the topic of the Orlando nightclub shooting, a terrorist attack at a gay bar in Florida in 2016, he said, "It amazes me to see the West welcoming a culture through the floodgates that wants gays dead. I think that's fantastic". [2] [3] Bertke later stated that he was trying to "impersonate the far right and create hysteria". [4] YourEDM compared his "homophobic rhetoric" to a 2015 video in which Bertke criticizes feminism, which he similarly tried to explain as a " social experiment". [5]
References
Fine, all. Show me the RS's that state that Disney cut ties. "Seems Disney has severed its relationship" is not something we can use. Valeince ( talk) 18:28, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Okay, so as I mentioned in my edit notes I added correct information from when that video was uploaded and in what way, source backing it up here: https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/1/17417748/pogo-youtube-homophobic-nick-bertke
Now, I also edited specific language used in that text. Such as the mention of the causalities caused by the Pulse nightclub shooter. See, now, I don't think its ethically sound to go and put this on here when there is an opposing argument that this is being taken out of context. Should the whole thing be erased cause of that? No. Cause this is getting high media attention and talk surrounding it. But that doesn't mean we should be slapping these details onto the article. Why? Cause its unnecessary, simple as that.
Linking to the article of the incident in-question and detailing what exactly he said is what we need to do. Not add data that exists solely to help back the narrative of why Bertke should be condemned in the eyes of one side, any side. If you disagree, tell me, you think we should also add the death toll of the 2011 Japanese tsunami to Gilbert Gottfried's article? Or do you believe Bertke wasn't joking and he was dead serious? Well, sorry to say, but you have no place on a website whose purpose is to provide a neutral pov.
Besides that can of worms, I also edited "claimed" to "stated." Claimed often used in the context that the person in-question has no proof. Google definition: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof. Obviously of course, he doesn't. But neither do the people who disagree, so I'm not handing "claimed" to either and instead opting for "stated" for both.
Feel free to disagree. Bold and Brash ( talk) 02:50, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 11 January 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Nobody is perfect but that his biography only consists out of his (supposedly) comments towards gay people is bizar. Looks more like online harassment to me. Why did his family moved from South Africa? What is known about his school time? Who and what influenced him making music? Is he famous in his region? What was his first breakthrough world wide? etc. 85.199.104.153 ( talk) 16:48, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Why wouldn't this meet the notability guidlines? I love Pogo's music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.16.141 ( talk) 01:08, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Keep. The Wall Street Journal reported about Pogo's latest exploits of Pixar's UP. [1]-- Conrad Kilroy ( talk) 19:25, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I fixed the image, but I have no idea where it's from and tineye gave me nothing. If someone would like to upload a better photo (I'm looking at http://www.flickr.com/photos/pogomix/4735881575/in/photostream/ right now), please feel free. Aar ► 01:33, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Please keep this article. I have found the discography very helpful recently. -- RND T C 21:48, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Is there a reason that this article makes no mention of his previous handle, Fagotron? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TychaBrahe ( talk • contribs) 17:57, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
“He took part in a project hosted by Disney/Pixar to produce a track based on their film, Up, titled "UPular".”
The article shows Disney as a partner. All past controversy have disappeared [2]. Alice was never officially offline for a while and only illegally backuped by fans. As Sony never shut down Bangarang.
Citation was duly needed. Let have some Pogo quotes:
Why was he talking about things that hadn't happen?
Lacrymocéphale 19:27, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
Can anyone back this up, I'm pretty sure he is a Kiwi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.125.233 ( talk) 07:30, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that many of the songs found in archives of his downloads and store pages, such as "Benny's Book Store" and "Re-Existence," are not in the discography section.
The so-called music videos lack third party sources. We cannot link to the youtube channel of the artist as his material is a likely copyright violation. Karst ( talk) 09:42, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, this section isn't really a consensus. Unless he's been sued and someone has won, there is no evidence that he's actually violated any copyright. No one here is a lawyer, and your opinion is original research. A primary source is a reference for content. Regardless of whether or not you think it may violate copyright. Wikipedia links to all kinds of things that could potentially violate copyright.-- 59.6.95.81 ( talk) 03:21, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm seeing two activist blogs (Waxy and We Hunted the Mammoth) as the sole source for the whole thing. Neither fit the [WP:RS] guidelines at all. The other link to Crowder at least has the justification that it's used solely to document that Bertke was on the show. The specific quotes are fine so long as they're accurate, notable, and representative (I haven't checked yet).
So there's a sourcing problem, and given that this makes allegations of misogyny (or, narrowly, gives weight to the allegations on those blogs), I think it also triggers a [WP:BLP] issue.
Can someone produce a reliable source documenting the controversy? I'd prefer not to delete the entire section but BLP suggests we need to err on the side of deletion if there isn't proper sourcing. 131.96.47.18 ( talk) 10:50, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I think that the section about Pogo's political views shouldn't added until a reliable source appears. The sources that are currently being used seem to fall under "Self-published sources (online and paper)".
JohnnyNumma ( talk) 19:37, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
Information removed per WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTSOAPBOX. Spintendo ᔦᔭ 00:59, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Not strictly related to misogyny but Pogo has just put up a video on his YT channel called Why I called my channel Fagottron which was also covered here. I'll leave it to the community to decide if there's merit in a 'controversy' section?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.130.57.80 ( talk) 02:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Pogo (electronic musician) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
This information needs to be included. It was accidentally removed as vandalism. The mentioned scandal is driving a huge amount of traffic (and vandalism) to this page. This is relevant, important and verifiable information. In a 2018 YouTube video, Bertke stated that he has a "fairly robust resentment of the gay community," and that he's "always had a very thorough dislike of homosexuality." In the same video, Bertke recalls his celebrating the Orlando nightclub shooting, in which a terrorist attack in a gay nightclub in Florida in 2016 killed 49 and wounded 53, [1] before saying he finds it "fantastic" to see "the West actually welcoming in a culture that wants to see gays dead." [2] Bisaknospus ( talk) 15:45, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
References
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
Eggishorn
(talk)
(contrib) 16:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Agree with this. Why is this information not being included when there is a clear citation containing a link to the video of him saying precisely this?
Vorpal22 (
talk) 19:53, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed the passage per BLP concerns. I don't consider the single source strong enough to include the passage as written. I think we can do better in finding an encyclopedic way of putting this in the article. Valeince ( talk) 23:10, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
It also seems to be at least as notable, based on secondary source coverage, as his music being used on Louder With Crowder or his visa issue. Who is to say whether future coverage of him will discuss that video or not? It seems premature to say that this but isn't notable just because no one has written about Pogo at all in the weeks after right when the news about the video came out. Umimmak ( talk) 03:50, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
In a YouTube livestream that was uploaded in 2016, Bertke stated that he has a "fairly robust resentment of the gay community". [1] On the topic of the Orlando nightclub shooting, a terrorist attack at a gay bar in Florida in 2016, he said, "It amazes me to see the West welcoming a culture through the floodgates that wants gays dead. I think that's fantastic". [2] [3] Bertke later stated that he was trying to "impersonate the far right and create hysteria". [4] YourEDM compared his "homophobic rhetoric" to a 2015 video in which Bertke criticizes feminism, which he similarly tried to explain as a " social experiment". [5]
References
Fine, all. Show me the RS's that state that Disney cut ties. "Seems Disney has severed its relationship" is not something we can use. Valeince ( talk) 18:28, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Okay, so as I mentioned in my edit notes I added correct information from when that video was uploaded and in what way, source backing it up here: https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/1/17417748/pogo-youtube-homophobic-nick-bertke
Now, I also edited specific language used in that text. Such as the mention of the causalities caused by the Pulse nightclub shooter. See, now, I don't think its ethically sound to go and put this on here when there is an opposing argument that this is being taken out of context. Should the whole thing be erased cause of that? No. Cause this is getting high media attention and talk surrounding it. But that doesn't mean we should be slapping these details onto the article. Why? Cause its unnecessary, simple as that.
Linking to the article of the incident in-question and detailing what exactly he said is what we need to do. Not add data that exists solely to help back the narrative of why Bertke should be condemned in the eyes of one side, any side. If you disagree, tell me, you think we should also add the death toll of the 2011 Japanese tsunami to Gilbert Gottfried's article? Or do you believe Bertke wasn't joking and he was dead serious? Well, sorry to say, but you have no place on a website whose purpose is to provide a neutral pov.
Besides that can of worms, I also edited "claimed" to "stated." Claimed often used in the context that the person in-question has no proof. Google definition: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof. Obviously of course, he doesn't. But neither do the people who disagree, so I'm not handing "claimed" to either and instead opting for "stated" for both.
Feel free to disagree. Bold and Brash ( talk) 02:50, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)