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A fact from Pinwill sisters appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 1 September 2022 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that the woodcarver Violet Pinwill of the Pinwill sisters was still working on a life-size figure of Saint Peter days before her death in 1957, aged 82?
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 00:34, 29 August 2022 (UTC)reply
... that the Pinwill sisters's workshop had created 168 woodcarvings in Devon and Cornwall churches by the 1950s? Source: Wilson, Helen. [www.pinwillsisters.org.uk "The catalogue"]. The Remarkable Pinwill Sisters. Retrieved 21 July 2022.
ALT1: ... that woodcarver Violet Pinwill was still working on a life size figure of St Peter days before her death in 1957, aged 82 ? Source: "Life Spent Wood-Carving for Churches. Miss V. Pinwill of Plymouth Dies". Western Morning News. 2 January 1957. p. 2.
Firstly, congratulations on your first DYK! A long article on an interesting subject that must have been quite a lot of work. New enough (moved into mainspace on 13 August). Long enough. Editor's first DYK, so no QPQ needed. NPOV throughout, and generally well-cited. Earwig found no copyright etc issues. The last bit of "legacy" needs a citation. I am a bit concerned about the main source, a book entitled "The Remarkable Pinwill Sisters" published by Willow Productions of Plymouth. I can find nothing about this company, suggesting this is a self-published book. Both of the hooks are interesting. I am unclear where the "168" figure in the first hook comes from. Presumably from "Nevertheless, there remain today at least 76 churches in Devon and 92 in Cornwall containing ecclesiastical wood carvings by the Pinwill workshop". But, that workshop "was employing 29 men and boys", so is it right to say that the sisters "created" all 168? As for ALT1, the article states that Violet "was finishing off a life size figure of St Peter for a Lancashire church". So, singular not plural, and life-size is not really "huge". Of course, I must AGF generally as most of the sources are offline, but the hooks do need to be consistent with the article.
Edwardx (
talk) 23:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Edwardx: Hi, Ive been adding pics to this article myself and adding Pinwill stuff to other articles about churches as this is a Women in Red contribution. I can see that "The Remarkable Pinwill Sisters" is probably self published but it doesnt seem to be a vanity publication just a way of publishing research by an acknowledged expert.... The author is acknowledged as an expert by the Devon Buildings Group - and I suspect that pdf may be an alt source for her book. (Maybe Balance person could add extra refs from that source to bolster doubt?) Also a lifesize carving isnt huge but it is large (people and many trees have a similar girth), and thats what the hook says. Also "is it right to say that the sisters "created" all 168" No it isnt, their workshop did, and thats what the hook says. Am I missing something?
Victuallers (
talk) 11:29, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Victuallers Thank you. What you appear to be missing is that
Balance person had already tweaked both hooks in light of my comments. Of course, they should ideally have mentioned those tweaks on this nom page (or created ALT0a and ALT1a), but they are new, and it is no big deal. Longstanding editors such as ourselves can always check the page history ;) I will come back to this later, as I am off to the London Wiki meet-up now.
Edwardx (
talk) 12:07, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Aaah that makes sense. Sorry for the confusion. Good time I hope for you in London. I'm off for a holiday too.
Victuallers (
talk) 12:19, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Balance person Thank you. However, I rather doubt that is the same Willow Productions, as "Nature of business" is listed as "Motion picture production activities".
Edwardx (
talk) 18:54, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
I have tweaked both hooks. I prefer ALT1, but both are interesting.
Edwardx (
talk) 19:00, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
I see this is a rather unconventional DYK page but if we go for ALT 1, I think we should at least mention the Pinwill sisters: e.g.
ALT1 (bis): ... that the woodcarver Violet Pinwill of the Pinwill sisters was still working on a life-size figure of St Peter days before her death in 1957, aged 82?--
Ipigott (
talk) 14:32, 16 August 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles about women in
business on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject Women in BusinessTemplate:WikiProject Women in BusinessWomen in Business articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women artists, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
women artists on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women artistsWikipedia:WikiProject Women artistsTemplate:WikiProject Women artistsWomen artists articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Craft, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
craft on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CraftWikipedia:WikiProject CraftTemplate:WikiProject CraftCraft articles
This article was created or improved during the
#1day1woman initiative hosted by the Women in Red project in 2022. The editor(s) involved may be new; please
assume good faith regarding their contributions before making changes.Women in RedWikipedia:WikiProject Women in RedTemplate:WikiProject Women in RedWomen in Red articles
A fact from Pinwill sisters appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 1 September 2022 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that the woodcarver Violet Pinwill of the Pinwill sisters was still working on a life-size figure of Saint Peter days before her death in 1957, aged 82?
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 00:34, 29 August 2022 (UTC)reply
... that the Pinwill sisters's workshop had created 168 woodcarvings in Devon and Cornwall churches by the 1950s? Source: Wilson, Helen. [www.pinwillsisters.org.uk "The catalogue"]. The Remarkable Pinwill Sisters. Retrieved 21 July 2022.
ALT1: ... that woodcarver Violet Pinwill was still working on a life size figure of St Peter days before her death in 1957, aged 82 ? Source: "Life Spent Wood-Carving for Churches. Miss V. Pinwill of Plymouth Dies". Western Morning News. 2 January 1957. p. 2.
Firstly, congratulations on your first DYK! A long article on an interesting subject that must have been quite a lot of work. New enough (moved into mainspace on 13 August). Long enough. Editor's first DYK, so no QPQ needed. NPOV throughout, and generally well-cited. Earwig found no copyright etc issues. The last bit of "legacy" needs a citation. I am a bit concerned about the main source, a book entitled "The Remarkable Pinwill Sisters" published by Willow Productions of Plymouth. I can find nothing about this company, suggesting this is a self-published book. Both of the hooks are interesting. I am unclear where the "168" figure in the first hook comes from. Presumably from "Nevertheless, there remain today at least 76 churches in Devon and 92 in Cornwall containing ecclesiastical wood carvings by the Pinwill workshop". But, that workshop "was employing 29 men and boys", so is it right to say that the sisters "created" all 168? As for ALT1, the article states that Violet "was finishing off a life size figure of St Peter for a Lancashire church". So, singular not plural, and life-size is not really "huge". Of course, I must AGF generally as most of the sources are offline, but the hooks do need to be consistent with the article.
Edwardx (
talk) 23:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Edwardx: Hi, Ive been adding pics to this article myself and adding Pinwill stuff to other articles about churches as this is a Women in Red contribution. I can see that "The Remarkable Pinwill Sisters" is probably self published but it doesnt seem to be a vanity publication just a way of publishing research by an acknowledged expert.... The author is acknowledged as an expert by the Devon Buildings Group - and I suspect that pdf may be an alt source for her book. (Maybe Balance person could add extra refs from that source to bolster doubt?) Also a lifesize carving isnt huge but it is large (people and many trees have a similar girth), and thats what the hook says. Also "is it right to say that the sisters "created" all 168" No it isnt, their workshop did, and thats what the hook says. Am I missing something?
Victuallers (
talk) 11:29, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Victuallers Thank you. What you appear to be missing is that
Balance person had already tweaked both hooks in light of my comments. Of course, they should ideally have mentioned those tweaks on this nom page (or created ALT0a and ALT1a), but they are new, and it is no big deal. Longstanding editors such as ourselves can always check the page history ;) I will come back to this later, as I am off to the London Wiki meet-up now.
Edwardx (
talk) 12:07, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Aaah that makes sense. Sorry for the confusion. Good time I hope for you in London. I'm off for a holiday too.
Victuallers (
talk) 12:19, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Balance person Thank you. However, I rather doubt that is the same Willow Productions, as "Nature of business" is listed as "Motion picture production activities".
Edwardx (
talk) 18:54, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
I have tweaked both hooks. I prefer ALT1, but both are interesting.
Edwardx (
talk) 19:00, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
I see this is a rather unconventional DYK page but if we go for ALT 1, I think we should at least mention the Pinwill sisters: e.g.
ALT1 (bis): ... that the woodcarver Violet Pinwill of the Pinwill sisters was still working on a life-size figure of St Peter days before her death in 1957, aged 82?--
Ipigott (
talk) 14:32, 16 August 2022 (UTC)reply
.jpg){kind=small}
Firstly, congratulations on your first DYK! A long article on an interesting subject that must have been quite a lot of work. New enough (moved into mainspace on 13 August). Long enough. Editor's first DYK, so no QPQ needed. NPOV throughout, and generally well-cited. Earwig found no copyright etc issues. The last bit of "legacy" needs a citation. I am a bit concerned about the main source, a book entitled "The Remarkable Pinwill Sisters" published by Willow Productions of Plymouth. I can find nothing about this company, suggesting this is a self-published book. Both of the hooks are interesting. I am unclear where the "168" figure in the first hook comes from. Presumably from "Nevertheless, there remain today at least 76 churches in Devon and 92 in Cornwall containing ecclesiastical wood carvings by the Pinwill workshop". But, that workshop "was employing 29 men and boys", so is it right to say that the sisters "created" all 168? As for ALT1, the article states that Violet "was finishing off a life size figure of St Peter for a Lancashire church". So, singular not plural, and life-size is not really "huge". Of course, I must AGF generally as most of the sources are offline, but the hooks do need to be consistent with the article.
Edwardx (
talk) 23:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
