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Bill Clinton slipped and fell at the home of professional golfer Greg Norman in Florida the night of March 13-14, 1997. The fall was severe enough to require surgery. This is more than a coincidence to me, and it adds to the legitimacy of the Phoenix Lights, since one scenario of how a president surrounded by Secret Service agents could slip and fall would be that the military was on high alert that night and the president was running for his limo with a Secret Service man's hand on his back, when he fell. It is plausible. I would love to ask Hillary Clinton how Bill really injured his knee that night. Consider adding some information about the coincidence, to the article, please. Thanks. 71.115.178.46 ( talk) 05:48, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Wow, that's quite a stretch. The president slipped and fell and somehow you extrapolate that it "must" be related to something in a the sky halfway across the country? 2600:1700:BC01:9B0:544F:E012:2320:EFE4 ( talk) 02:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
I took the box for npov off, since this entry here is the first on the talk page. If there is a neutrality issue, please put the box back up, but also make an entry on the talk page to say what the issue is. Jmlk17 20:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
There was no NPOV dispute at all. It was placed by a Anon User. Martial Law 23:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :)
Alright...thanks Jmlk17 00:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
As of March 2007
Actually I have some problems with the neutrality of this article as well. The writing style leans heavily in support of USAF explanations. Regardless of what the truth may be, the article should only present verifiable info, and not draw conclusion on it's own. But I'm also saying that verifiable info includes what witnesses have said, and what the USAF has said. Then if there is verifiable info about what decisions were made about it, and who made them, great. Include that. Statements like and it was easily seen that the lights vanished in line with the outline of the mountain are not appropriate. Also but the USAF identified them is kind of weasily. I'm putting up an NPOV tag myself.
x 22:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
The NPOV tag was removed with no clear explanation as to why, and the isses I've brought up here have not been addressed. In terms of sources, that's not specifically a NPOV issue; the issue is how the information is presented. Too much of it is more an inline debate than an objective encyclopedic article. I've placed the tag back. x 13:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
The article contains all pro's and con's, detailed explanations of what many people claim to have seen and what officials later explained. It is well balanced and neutral at the end, well written too and cites many sources. So the only conclusion is to remove all tags! Thank you. Please do so if there are no further objections. -- 89.247.30.41 01:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Um, first paragraph... why is Fox news criticized for taking the stance that the US Goverment, and therefore every other news agency, took? I disagree with the flare story as well, but dont act like Fox is the one perpatrating it. I know you guys at wiki really hate on fox/conservatism, but this is just ridiculous 136.160.191.18 ( talk) 20:09, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
And the thing thats most ridiculous about accusing fox news for saying it was flares is that later in the same article there is a huge paragraph explaining the likelyhood of it being flares!!!! As i said, you guys notoriously favor liberalism here, but this is just on a whole new level. I mean what are u guys taking donations for, to donate them back to the obama admin? Come on guys, have just a little integrity. 136.160.191.18 ( talk) 20:34, 30 December 2009 (UTC) About the USAF and the direction this report should go in, I can refer you to new ideas supported by a video contributor at You Tube named DERRUFO360. He has listed some new messages in video format for ideas that challenge how to perceive what occurred in Arizona in 1997.-BlondeIgnore Blondeignore ( talk) 18:18, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
There is still ongoing activity going on in Phoenix. Go to the external links, such as the UFO Casebook link, and the Jeff Rense link. Martial Law 23:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :)
Due to the ongoing activity, should the article be renamed The Phoenix UFO Incident ? Martial Law 21:02, 12 March 2006 (UTC) :)
Everyone needs to stop referring to these events as "lights." It reduces the size of the object(s). The "lights" that everyone is referring to are the visible aspects of energy; we don't know what kind of energy, but clearly something that is in the visual light spectrum. This energy is being emitted from something that is an "object." As the object is in the sky and is unidentified, it is an unidentified flying object, which is what UFOs are. Therefore, this entire incident should be referred to as the "Massive UFO Incident" of Arizona (MUI) because there are certainly going to be more Massive UFO sightings in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.124.151.5 ( talk • contribs)
We should not be supposing UFO sightings in the future which can not be proven so it is not a legitimate reason for calling it Massive UFO incident anyway.
We don't know exactly how large the object really is yet or whether these were multiple objects so the term massive would be inappropriate. We know there were lights. Nothing else has been proven. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.62.209.10 ( talk) 18:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I inserted the "disputed" tag on this article because it is so horrendously unencyclopedic. Examples? Let's look just at the second paragraph alone, which is as follows.
The whole article is dodgy, and these anomalies I list here result from only one paragraph. I would attempt a fix, but knowing how quickly it would be reverted I won't bother. So I've attached the tag instead. Moriori 02:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Go to UFO Casebook's homepage to see a TUBE shaped UFO. Martial Law 20:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)
Since this is a videotape, there are language issues. This was shot on 3-13-06. Martial Law 20:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)
The picture should be removed from the article and replaced with a genuine one - this picture is a recreation that was made for the cover of her book and bears little resemblance to the hundreds of actual photographs and videos, which show a long slanting line of lights.
Due to the still ongoing activities, see Re.:UFO Pix above, the article should be titled, The Phoenix UFO Incident to reflect this fact. The incident started in 1997, and, in spite of what others have stated, the incident is still ongoing, Jeff Rense is also getting pixes of UFOs photographed over Phoenix, Arizona. Martial Law 21:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)
I have personally investigated this incident while getting a $60,000 trailer fixed. The "flare explanation" is a true farce. Was also trying to locate one Peter Gersten, who was running CAUS at the time. I have caught a UFO on "film" as it was passing a auto dealership. That pix is now my Wall Paper, and seen one near Willcox, Arizona as well. I did not find "The UFO Lawyer" at all. One witness I had discussed this matter with stated that the(polite) expletive had flown over her house. Another stated that armed jets were seen chasing, yes, chasing UFOs, not dropping (polite) expletive flares, and that the govt. had better quit the expletive and tell the expletive truth. Only being honest, yet complying with Wikipedia:Profanity and WP:NOR. By the way, the UFO was one of those "classic lights". I have also seen on TV (Have Satellite TV) the farce that was perpetrated when two DPS officers had a BIG "Alien" in handcuffs and shackles placed on TV. Martial Law 06:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC) :) 'Bold text
There were alleged reports of air force planes being launched to intercept the object but actually provable reports that say the military was active that night. as well as the air force saying there were only a couple of calls to report the object, However on the contrary the police stations and millitary base were flooded with calls from people and this triangular craft was seen by thousands of people some air force pilots themselves that say "these were not flares" as well as pilots who say the same thing. Also one has to think, the air force would never release flares over civillian cities.
For more information on the investigation go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiEPbTBm60I
I think people are making large assumptions when they say the military would or would not do something that might endanger civilians or be seen by thousands of civilians.
Someone said something similar in the documentary "The Phoenix Lights". They said the military would never fly in formation like that over the state and then right over Phoenix. My thought was you seem to be trying to make the argument that the government is covering up something and then you say the government would never do something. It's an odd thing to say to me if the person believes in UFOs that are extra-terrestrial.
You might say they want to keep things secret but it's too big of an assumption to eliminate the possibility the military was doing an exercise. You need to keep your mind open for that possibility instead of shutting it down because you want it to be an extra-terrestrial UFO.
Should we not have a section of this page devoted to the theory that the Phoenix Lights were a secret military airship, as described in this article: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/black_triangle_020805.html
another sighting of the phoenix lights has returned in the past week and close up footage was taken by residents and also fox skycam also captured the lights during a video
You can still see the video from 2007 here [1]. It's pretty obviously the same thing again. Skeptic2 ( talk) 22:38, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
The article says that the lights were observed by an amateur astronomer with a "TELEVUE 32mm Plossl telescope" however the Televue item described is an eyepiece and not a telescope. Picky maybe but lack of technical accuracy tends to undermine credibility. Maryyugo 23:42, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Fox 10 News in Phoenix, Arizona just aired a report about someone who videotaped a sighting of the Phoenix Lights, 11 years, and 1 week after the original date of 03.18.97. I can't find reports anywhere. I am going to look it up and report back. Just wanted to put the word out there. Layalzebub ( talk) 05:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Should this page be tagged as a current event? 72.198.2.87 ( talk) 21:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Please tell me why, because the article linked to the A-10 Warthog does not, why on earth a high-speed, close-support, military aircraft, one of the most advanced in our arsenal, would ever be dropping flares over civilian populations in a clearly discernable, slow-moving pattern? To cite this as a reference requires, to my mind, at least a comparable assertion in the article on the A-10 itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.187.73 ( talk) 07:18, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
The most common use of Flares is to illuminate the ground for Airstrikes, or to confuse Heat Seeking Missiles. The Phoenix Lights seem to be doing neither. Add to this witness accounts of strange flying objects in the weeks before Phoenix and you have a genuinely puzzling event. Johnwrd ( talk) 04:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Well it would make sense that any kind of aircraft, especially something designed just for CAS would have flares and therefore have to train in using them. If an enemy were to lock onto to an A-10 or any other plane with some kind of missle, either shoulder fired or aircraft, the A-10 would drop flares to confuse the missle and mis-guide it. The heat given off by the flare would do this. However, our military is very very technologically advanced and i seriously doubt they would endanger thousands of lives potentially by dropping these over populated areas. Regardless of where they actually were dropped, they would take wind and other things into consideration so as to not harm the citizens. Personally i think this event was due to some sort of still secret military project —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.160.191.18 ( talk) 20:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
If you read Gerald Haines' excellent 1997 article on the CIA website about the CIA's involvement with the UFO phenomenon since the 1950s, it becomes clear that numerous "UFO" sightings since the 1950s have been of (then) secret military hardware/technology being tested. Haines demonstrates that the CIA, Air Force, and other groups even deliberately encouraged some sightings to be labeled as "UFOs" to keep people from learning it was actually a U-2, Stealth fighter, or some other secret military project. My own take is that the Phoenix Lights and many other "unexplained" sightings were/are probably some secret US military project, and not aliens from outer space/another dimension, etc.
Collective thought is our future —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torchofaz ( talk • contribs) 06:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
im thinking that using that phrase is a way to forced(akward) attempt at "neutrality". lets break this down. the lights were flying, they are yet to be identified, and we can assume that they are some sort of object. UFO will do. Using the phrase UFO does not imply little green men from mars. it implys that its flying and we dont know what it is. only the ignorant attach the little green man part. 74.192.29.148 ( talk)im too lazy to sign in thanks —Preceding undated comment was added at 17:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC).
All, don't you think after the Stephenville Texas sighting ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_Blimp) we can safely conclude the "flares" explanation is bunk? This object was picked up on radar. Flares don't generate a radar return. Those entries should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hyper formance ( talk • contribs) 19:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Those entries should stay. The plane dropping the flares generated the radar return. 216.115.60.247 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:00, 11 March 2009 (UTC).
Im gonna assume this was the person who also implicated Fox News as the ones who originated this theory. Please take that off of this article, as this is probably one of the most important UFO sightings ever, and also one of the most well documented. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.160.191.18 ( talk) 20:44, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
In the "explanations and skepticism," it is correctly noted that the second part of the 1998 event was explained by the USAF as being "slow falling, long burning flares."
It incorrectly suggest that [http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=39860 this source concludes] "[m]ore recent investigations have come to the same conclusion." It's true that more recent investigations, of more recent events, have come to the same conclusion, but that source does not suggest that the event in 1998 was flares. The source specifically talks about a January 9, 2007 event, that is not even reference in this article. The bad block is below:
The second event has been more thoroughly covered by the media, due in part to the military's backing of the explanation. The USAF explained the second event as slow falling, long burning flares dropped by an A-10 Warthog aircraft on a training exercise over Luke Air Force Base. An investigation by Luke AFB itself also came to this conclusion and declared the case solved.[23] More recent investigations have come to the same conclusion.[24]
24.209.227.186 ( talk) 16:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
I've started to go through the sourcing on this article, it was and still is, in really bad shape. I'll do some reference hunting once some of the more badly sourced info is removed. Feel free to source and add material back in. BrendanFrye ( talk) 23:52, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
So if this "UFO" sighting was so well documented, why is the only photo on the wikipedia page a drawing? 128.223.131.109 ( talk) 21:13, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Well, my good sir, that would be because they were flares and it was well documented, but Wikipedia, instead of going with factual-based evidence, is so hardcore with their neutrality stance that these are the kind of people that would give intelligent design equal teaching time in biology class. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.195.230.26 ( talk) 01:04, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
If there are no objections I am going to remove the following paragraph from the article:
Is there any point in stating a scientifically invalid claim, then pointing to statements attesting to its invalidity? 128.223.131.109 ( talk) 22:33, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
To be really clear here - the problem with even the concept of doing spectral analysis of a photograph is that the photographic emulsion consists of three light-sensitive dyes - one is responsive to red light, another to green and the third to blue. Digital photography works the same way...as to do our eyes. If you take the light from a photograph or a computer screen - or even attempt to do math to seek out the light frequencies present in a digital or emulsion photograph - all you'll get is the spectrum from the three dyes, pigments or phosphors present in the imaging device. The result is essentially three colored lines...nothing like a useable spectrum. A true spectral analysis would have had to be done from the direct light from the actual Phoenix lights themselves. Such analysis, done by some incredible flook or foresight while the actual event was happening, would have yielded some invaluable information as to the true sources of those lights. But carrying out any such analysis on the photograph of that light is beyond useless.
So it is 100% clear that this claim is not just untrue - it's completely and utterly naive, crazy! Either the original claimant is an outright liar and did not do the experiment as claimed (seems most likely) or this is someone who is incredibly scientifically naive and therefore in no position to interpret the results in any meaningful manner. Either way, any and all claims from the results of such "analysis" are entirely useless. SteveBaker ( talk) 00:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Let's focus on the subject at hand, the paragraph relating to Dilletoso. My thoughts on the matter are as follows: Any yahoo can make scientific-sounding claims regarding the Phoenix Lights incident, but only the notable claims need be included in the Wikipedia page. The question at hand is whether Dilletoso's claims, proven to be false, are notable enough to be included here. I am interested in hearing other points of view on this matter. 128.223.131.109 ( talk) 20:12, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
It seems that the phenomenon has occured two more times : November 2010 and November 2011. Should we talk about this in the article ? Workingonwp ( talk) 19:38, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
The last paragraph of this section currently reads:
Given the lack of neutrality in this paragraph, I recommend:
This would render the paragraph as follows:
This would be much cleaner and more neutral. The town hall meeting sentence (#4 in the paragraph) is certainly very interesting, and if a source can be found for it, it should probably be kept. If it was actually televised it seems like getting a citation for it shouldn't be that hard. 174.63.118.131 ( talk) 11:45, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello to all watchers of this page. I am about to attempt an improvement of this article. Mainly, I want to smooth out the way the text reads and improve both the number and quality of the references cited. I see it has been several years since there has been significant activity on the talk page here, but if anyone has suggestions I would be very grateful for the help. VaDawn ( talk) 01:28, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
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Is it at all relevant to add actor Kurt Russell's involvement in this article? He has gone on record multiple times stating he was the one general aviation pilot who reported the incident while flying from California to Arizona. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkclaw1256 ( talk • contribs) 07:00, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Where are the original photo's in this article?? All is only text here. That is really sad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.161.86.195 ( talk) 02:52, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
I just manually reverted 4 edits from February by 2003:dd:3f30:b700:e0e4:9020:7f20:6c24 ( talk) (I mangled the IP address in the edit desription). The edits were blanking a referenced section, modifying a referenced section to change its meaning and adding an unreferenced claim. I'm pretty certain they should have been reverted. — Marvin talk 19:45, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
This citation reads: '"Phoenix Lights". Spartechsoftware.com. Retrieved 2011-03-23.'
However, the link to spartechsoftware.com reaches a 404 page, and I could find no reference to the quotation at that url/domain. Al Begamut ( talk) 19:48, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
This suspicious edit changed the names of the witnesses from "John Kaiser" to "Devon Lorenz and his Aunt Jamie Lorenz". It could be someone adding the names of people they know, or it could be a revert of such an edit. The source is offline, so I can't check what is correct. -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 09:30, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Not WP:FRIND WP:RS sources. Citations like this, this, this, and this need to go. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 14:39, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia states all these phoenix lights were "military aircraft" flying in formation and/or " flares", as if this is the indisputable truth. This view is also word for word the unashamed lies from officialdom about the incident- a position which has since been descredited by the original proponents themselves (Phoenix Mayor at the time, independent pilots, airmen,etc) under FOI recent disclosures. That the view is (as time of writing) still on this page, sadly puts the credibility of this platform as a reliable source of unbaised kmowledge in doubt. For crying out loud, how can flares/known aircraft remain near stationary in the air, or fly in inch-pefect formation for over 3 hours and 300 miles, and without making even a whisper of sound. Genuine science alone tells you that is an impossibility, if you may still discount the multitudes of videos and witness reports at hand. I do believe I am not alone in feeling this is an uncharacteristic (so far as i thinK) laxity of standards, hopefully the article can be recast to change the view. Joseph S. Mawejje ( talk) 23:03, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
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Bill Clinton slipped and fell at the home of professional golfer Greg Norman in Florida the night of March 13-14, 1997. The fall was severe enough to require surgery. This is more than a coincidence to me, and it adds to the legitimacy of the Phoenix Lights, since one scenario of how a president surrounded by Secret Service agents could slip and fall would be that the military was on high alert that night and the president was running for his limo with a Secret Service man's hand on his back, when he fell. It is plausible. I would love to ask Hillary Clinton how Bill really injured his knee that night. Consider adding some information about the coincidence, to the article, please. Thanks. 71.115.178.46 ( talk) 05:48, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Wow, that's quite a stretch. The president slipped and fell and somehow you extrapolate that it "must" be related to something in a the sky halfway across the country? 2600:1700:BC01:9B0:544F:E012:2320:EFE4 ( talk) 02:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
I took the box for npov off, since this entry here is the first on the talk page. If there is a neutrality issue, please put the box back up, but also make an entry on the talk page to say what the issue is. Jmlk17 20:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
There was no NPOV dispute at all. It was placed by a Anon User. Martial Law 23:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :)
Alright...thanks Jmlk17 00:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
As of March 2007
Actually I have some problems with the neutrality of this article as well. The writing style leans heavily in support of USAF explanations. Regardless of what the truth may be, the article should only present verifiable info, and not draw conclusion on it's own. But I'm also saying that verifiable info includes what witnesses have said, and what the USAF has said. Then if there is verifiable info about what decisions were made about it, and who made them, great. Include that. Statements like and it was easily seen that the lights vanished in line with the outline of the mountain are not appropriate. Also but the USAF identified them is kind of weasily. I'm putting up an NPOV tag myself.
x 22:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
The NPOV tag was removed with no clear explanation as to why, and the isses I've brought up here have not been addressed. In terms of sources, that's not specifically a NPOV issue; the issue is how the information is presented. Too much of it is more an inline debate than an objective encyclopedic article. I've placed the tag back. x 13:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
The article contains all pro's and con's, detailed explanations of what many people claim to have seen and what officials later explained. It is well balanced and neutral at the end, well written too and cites many sources. So the only conclusion is to remove all tags! Thank you. Please do so if there are no further objections. -- 89.247.30.41 01:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Um, first paragraph... why is Fox news criticized for taking the stance that the US Goverment, and therefore every other news agency, took? I disagree with the flare story as well, but dont act like Fox is the one perpatrating it. I know you guys at wiki really hate on fox/conservatism, but this is just ridiculous 136.160.191.18 ( talk) 20:09, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
And the thing thats most ridiculous about accusing fox news for saying it was flares is that later in the same article there is a huge paragraph explaining the likelyhood of it being flares!!!! As i said, you guys notoriously favor liberalism here, but this is just on a whole new level. I mean what are u guys taking donations for, to donate them back to the obama admin? Come on guys, have just a little integrity. 136.160.191.18 ( talk) 20:34, 30 December 2009 (UTC) About the USAF and the direction this report should go in, I can refer you to new ideas supported by a video contributor at You Tube named DERRUFO360. He has listed some new messages in video format for ideas that challenge how to perceive what occurred in Arizona in 1997.-BlondeIgnore Blondeignore ( talk) 18:18, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
There is still ongoing activity going on in Phoenix. Go to the external links, such as the UFO Casebook link, and the Jeff Rense link. Martial Law 23:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :)
Due to the ongoing activity, should the article be renamed The Phoenix UFO Incident ? Martial Law 21:02, 12 March 2006 (UTC) :)
Everyone needs to stop referring to these events as "lights." It reduces the size of the object(s). The "lights" that everyone is referring to are the visible aspects of energy; we don't know what kind of energy, but clearly something that is in the visual light spectrum. This energy is being emitted from something that is an "object." As the object is in the sky and is unidentified, it is an unidentified flying object, which is what UFOs are. Therefore, this entire incident should be referred to as the "Massive UFO Incident" of Arizona (MUI) because there are certainly going to be more Massive UFO sightings in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.124.151.5 ( talk • contribs)
We should not be supposing UFO sightings in the future which can not be proven so it is not a legitimate reason for calling it Massive UFO incident anyway.
We don't know exactly how large the object really is yet or whether these were multiple objects so the term massive would be inappropriate. We know there were lights. Nothing else has been proven. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.62.209.10 ( talk) 18:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I inserted the "disputed" tag on this article because it is so horrendously unencyclopedic. Examples? Let's look just at the second paragraph alone, which is as follows.
The whole article is dodgy, and these anomalies I list here result from only one paragraph. I would attempt a fix, but knowing how quickly it would be reverted I won't bother. So I've attached the tag instead. Moriori 02:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Go to UFO Casebook's homepage to see a TUBE shaped UFO. Martial Law 20:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)
Since this is a videotape, there are language issues. This was shot on 3-13-06. Martial Law 20:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)
The picture should be removed from the article and replaced with a genuine one - this picture is a recreation that was made for the cover of her book and bears little resemblance to the hundreds of actual photographs and videos, which show a long slanting line of lights.
Due to the still ongoing activities, see Re.:UFO Pix above, the article should be titled, The Phoenix UFO Incident to reflect this fact. The incident started in 1997, and, in spite of what others have stated, the incident is still ongoing, Jeff Rense is also getting pixes of UFOs photographed over Phoenix, Arizona. Martial Law 21:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC) :)
I have personally investigated this incident while getting a $60,000 trailer fixed. The "flare explanation" is a true farce. Was also trying to locate one Peter Gersten, who was running CAUS at the time. I have caught a UFO on "film" as it was passing a auto dealership. That pix is now my Wall Paper, and seen one near Willcox, Arizona as well. I did not find "The UFO Lawyer" at all. One witness I had discussed this matter with stated that the(polite) expletive had flown over her house. Another stated that armed jets were seen chasing, yes, chasing UFOs, not dropping (polite) expletive flares, and that the govt. had better quit the expletive and tell the expletive truth. Only being honest, yet complying with Wikipedia:Profanity and WP:NOR. By the way, the UFO was one of those "classic lights". I have also seen on TV (Have Satellite TV) the farce that was perpetrated when two DPS officers had a BIG "Alien" in handcuffs and shackles placed on TV. Martial Law 06:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC) :) 'Bold text
There were alleged reports of air force planes being launched to intercept the object but actually provable reports that say the military was active that night. as well as the air force saying there were only a couple of calls to report the object, However on the contrary the police stations and millitary base were flooded with calls from people and this triangular craft was seen by thousands of people some air force pilots themselves that say "these were not flares" as well as pilots who say the same thing. Also one has to think, the air force would never release flares over civillian cities.
For more information on the investigation go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiEPbTBm60I
I think people are making large assumptions when they say the military would or would not do something that might endanger civilians or be seen by thousands of civilians.
Someone said something similar in the documentary "The Phoenix Lights". They said the military would never fly in formation like that over the state and then right over Phoenix. My thought was you seem to be trying to make the argument that the government is covering up something and then you say the government would never do something. It's an odd thing to say to me if the person believes in UFOs that are extra-terrestrial.
You might say they want to keep things secret but it's too big of an assumption to eliminate the possibility the military was doing an exercise. You need to keep your mind open for that possibility instead of shutting it down because you want it to be an extra-terrestrial UFO.
Should we not have a section of this page devoted to the theory that the Phoenix Lights were a secret military airship, as described in this article: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/black_triangle_020805.html
another sighting of the phoenix lights has returned in the past week and close up footage was taken by residents and also fox skycam also captured the lights during a video
You can still see the video from 2007 here [1]. It's pretty obviously the same thing again. Skeptic2 ( talk) 22:38, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
The article says that the lights were observed by an amateur astronomer with a "TELEVUE 32mm Plossl telescope" however the Televue item described is an eyepiece and not a telescope. Picky maybe but lack of technical accuracy tends to undermine credibility. Maryyugo 23:42, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Fox 10 News in Phoenix, Arizona just aired a report about someone who videotaped a sighting of the Phoenix Lights, 11 years, and 1 week after the original date of 03.18.97. I can't find reports anywhere. I am going to look it up and report back. Just wanted to put the word out there. Layalzebub ( talk) 05:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Should this page be tagged as a current event? 72.198.2.87 ( talk) 21:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Please tell me why, because the article linked to the A-10 Warthog does not, why on earth a high-speed, close-support, military aircraft, one of the most advanced in our arsenal, would ever be dropping flares over civilian populations in a clearly discernable, slow-moving pattern? To cite this as a reference requires, to my mind, at least a comparable assertion in the article on the A-10 itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.187.73 ( talk) 07:18, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
The most common use of Flares is to illuminate the ground for Airstrikes, or to confuse Heat Seeking Missiles. The Phoenix Lights seem to be doing neither. Add to this witness accounts of strange flying objects in the weeks before Phoenix and you have a genuinely puzzling event. Johnwrd ( talk) 04:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Well it would make sense that any kind of aircraft, especially something designed just for CAS would have flares and therefore have to train in using them. If an enemy were to lock onto to an A-10 or any other plane with some kind of missle, either shoulder fired or aircraft, the A-10 would drop flares to confuse the missle and mis-guide it. The heat given off by the flare would do this. However, our military is very very technologically advanced and i seriously doubt they would endanger thousands of lives potentially by dropping these over populated areas. Regardless of where they actually were dropped, they would take wind and other things into consideration so as to not harm the citizens. Personally i think this event was due to some sort of still secret military project —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.160.191.18 ( talk) 20:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
If you read Gerald Haines' excellent 1997 article on the CIA website about the CIA's involvement with the UFO phenomenon since the 1950s, it becomes clear that numerous "UFO" sightings since the 1950s have been of (then) secret military hardware/technology being tested. Haines demonstrates that the CIA, Air Force, and other groups even deliberately encouraged some sightings to be labeled as "UFOs" to keep people from learning it was actually a U-2, Stealth fighter, or some other secret military project. My own take is that the Phoenix Lights and many other "unexplained" sightings were/are probably some secret US military project, and not aliens from outer space/another dimension, etc.
Collective thought is our future —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torchofaz ( talk • contribs) 06:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
im thinking that using that phrase is a way to forced(akward) attempt at "neutrality". lets break this down. the lights were flying, they are yet to be identified, and we can assume that they are some sort of object. UFO will do. Using the phrase UFO does not imply little green men from mars. it implys that its flying and we dont know what it is. only the ignorant attach the little green man part. 74.192.29.148 ( talk)im too lazy to sign in thanks —Preceding undated comment was added at 17:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC).
All, don't you think after the Stephenville Texas sighting ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_Blimp) we can safely conclude the "flares" explanation is bunk? This object was picked up on radar. Flares don't generate a radar return. Those entries should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hyper formance ( talk • contribs) 19:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Those entries should stay. The plane dropping the flares generated the radar return. 216.115.60.247 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:00, 11 March 2009 (UTC).
Im gonna assume this was the person who also implicated Fox News as the ones who originated this theory. Please take that off of this article, as this is probably one of the most important UFO sightings ever, and also one of the most well documented. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.160.191.18 ( talk) 20:44, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
In the "explanations and skepticism," it is correctly noted that the second part of the 1998 event was explained by the USAF as being "slow falling, long burning flares."
It incorrectly suggest that [http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=39860 this source concludes] "[m]ore recent investigations have come to the same conclusion." It's true that more recent investigations, of more recent events, have come to the same conclusion, but that source does not suggest that the event in 1998 was flares. The source specifically talks about a January 9, 2007 event, that is not even reference in this article. The bad block is below:
The second event has been more thoroughly covered by the media, due in part to the military's backing of the explanation. The USAF explained the second event as slow falling, long burning flares dropped by an A-10 Warthog aircraft on a training exercise over Luke Air Force Base. An investigation by Luke AFB itself also came to this conclusion and declared the case solved.[23] More recent investigations have come to the same conclusion.[24]
24.209.227.186 ( talk) 16:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
I've started to go through the sourcing on this article, it was and still is, in really bad shape. I'll do some reference hunting once some of the more badly sourced info is removed. Feel free to source and add material back in. BrendanFrye ( talk) 23:52, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
So if this "UFO" sighting was so well documented, why is the only photo on the wikipedia page a drawing? 128.223.131.109 ( talk) 21:13, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Well, my good sir, that would be because they were flares and it was well documented, but Wikipedia, instead of going with factual-based evidence, is so hardcore with their neutrality stance that these are the kind of people that would give intelligent design equal teaching time in biology class. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.195.230.26 ( talk) 01:04, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
If there are no objections I am going to remove the following paragraph from the article:
Is there any point in stating a scientifically invalid claim, then pointing to statements attesting to its invalidity? 128.223.131.109 ( talk) 22:33, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
To be really clear here - the problem with even the concept of doing spectral analysis of a photograph is that the photographic emulsion consists of three light-sensitive dyes - one is responsive to red light, another to green and the third to blue. Digital photography works the same way...as to do our eyes. If you take the light from a photograph or a computer screen - or even attempt to do math to seek out the light frequencies present in a digital or emulsion photograph - all you'll get is the spectrum from the three dyes, pigments or phosphors present in the imaging device. The result is essentially three colored lines...nothing like a useable spectrum. A true spectral analysis would have had to be done from the direct light from the actual Phoenix lights themselves. Such analysis, done by some incredible flook or foresight while the actual event was happening, would have yielded some invaluable information as to the true sources of those lights. But carrying out any such analysis on the photograph of that light is beyond useless.
So it is 100% clear that this claim is not just untrue - it's completely and utterly naive, crazy! Either the original claimant is an outright liar and did not do the experiment as claimed (seems most likely) or this is someone who is incredibly scientifically naive and therefore in no position to interpret the results in any meaningful manner. Either way, any and all claims from the results of such "analysis" are entirely useless. SteveBaker ( talk) 00:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Let's focus on the subject at hand, the paragraph relating to Dilletoso. My thoughts on the matter are as follows: Any yahoo can make scientific-sounding claims regarding the Phoenix Lights incident, but only the notable claims need be included in the Wikipedia page. The question at hand is whether Dilletoso's claims, proven to be false, are notable enough to be included here. I am interested in hearing other points of view on this matter. 128.223.131.109 ( talk) 20:12, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
It seems that the phenomenon has occured two more times : November 2010 and November 2011. Should we talk about this in the article ? Workingonwp ( talk) 19:38, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
The last paragraph of this section currently reads:
Given the lack of neutrality in this paragraph, I recommend:
This would render the paragraph as follows:
This would be much cleaner and more neutral. The town hall meeting sentence (#4 in the paragraph) is certainly very interesting, and if a source can be found for it, it should probably be kept. If it was actually televised it seems like getting a citation for it shouldn't be that hard. 174.63.118.131 ( talk) 11:45, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Hello to all watchers of this page. I am about to attempt an improvement of this article. Mainly, I want to smooth out the way the text reads and improve both the number and quality of the references cited. I see it has been several years since there has been significant activity on the talk page here, but if anyone has suggestions I would be very grateful for the help. VaDawn ( talk) 01:28, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
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Is it at all relevant to add actor Kurt Russell's involvement in this article? He has gone on record multiple times stating he was the one general aviation pilot who reported the incident while flying from California to Arizona. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkclaw1256 ( talk • contribs) 07:00, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Where are the original photo's in this article?? All is only text here. That is really sad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.161.86.195 ( talk) 02:52, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
I just manually reverted 4 edits from February by 2003:dd:3f30:b700:e0e4:9020:7f20:6c24 ( talk) (I mangled the IP address in the edit desription). The edits were blanking a referenced section, modifying a referenced section to change its meaning and adding an unreferenced claim. I'm pretty certain they should have been reverted. — Marvin talk 19:45, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
This citation reads: '"Phoenix Lights". Spartechsoftware.com. Retrieved 2011-03-23.'
However, the link to spartechsoftware.com reaches a 404 page, and I could find no reference to the quotation at that url/domain. Al Begamut ( talk) 19:48, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
This suspicious edit changed the names of the witnesses from "John Kaiser" to "Devon Lorenz and his Aunt Jamie Lorenz". It could be someone adding the names of people they know, or it could be a revert of such an edit. The source is offline, so I can't check what is correct. -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 09:30, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Not WP:FRIND WP:RS sources. Citations like this, this, this, and this need to go. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 14:39, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia states all these phoenix lights were "military aircraft" flying in formation and/or " flares", as if this is the indisputable truth. This view is also word for word the unashamed lies from officialdom about the incident- a position which has since been descredited by the original proponents themselves (Phoenix Mayor at the time, independent pilots, airmen,etc) under FOI recent disclosures. That the view is (as time of writing) still on this page, sadly puts the credibility of this platform as a reliable source of unbaised kmowledge in doubt. For crying out loud, how can flares/known aircraft remain near stationary in the air, or fly in inch-pefect formation for over 3 hours and 300 miles, and without making even a whisper of sound. Genuine science alone tells you that is an impossibility, if you may still discount the multitudes of videos and witness reports at hand. I do believe I am not alone in feeling this is an uncharacteristic (so far as i thinK) laxity of standards, hopefully the article can be recast to change the view. Joseph S. Mawejje ( talk) 23:03, 1 February 2024 (UTC)