This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
Should there be a section on stone throwing attacks on Egyptian border guards at the Egypt-Gaza border? There have been quite a few such confrontations in recent years. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 22:06, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
If you cite that stuff you must contextualize it. The last named incident occurred when Israel blocked off all exits and entrances, Palestinians broke the Egyptian wall, and stone throwing, and shooting occurred,(for which Hamas apologized) (Ellen Knickmeyer, 'Egyptians Reseal Border, Cutting Access From Gaza,' Washington Post February 4, 2008.
I think therefore, to avoid 'bloat', that one should simply note that stone throwing also extends at times to the Rafah border area. Nishidani ( talk) 04:31, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Subsections are needed separating the use of stone throwing in political demonstrations (which are termed riots in English the minute the segue into throwing stones) from the Palestinian practice practice of standing near roads and throwing stones at vehicles presumed ot carry Isrealis, and throwing stones at pedestrians in quiet streets where no demonstration is taking place. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Speaking of which, article should mention cases where Arabs in a car have been injured by Arabs throwing stones at vehicles they presumed to be carrying Jews? E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
I was going to bring it up some days ago when I saw it but didn't have time so I ask now: what is Category:Deaths by rocks thrown at cars doing here? If this were an article about people killed by that, it would be included. That category is for articles like Death of Adele Biton, which describes a person killed in a car crash because of a rock was thrown at the car. -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 19:16, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Igorp's edit is totally unacceptable Edmond Ghanem's death is alluded to in at least a dozen good sources, since, together with the mysterious death of Basem Rishmawi, it is remembered in Beit Sahour and studied by scholars of the Christian community there. One cannot, Igorp, wipe out scholars who specialize in that area's history and write decades after the event, in the light of broad studies, and interviews, and replace them with a single primary source raw report from 1988, that just sums up two versions. If commonsense prevails over the recent wave of atrocious editing, then most of the sourcing, and paraphrasing of sources, I have provided can be removed. As it is, one has to provisorily give the fuller picture because editors are tampering with this to spin a POV. IDF investigations have no more authority than scholarly investigations. We don't know the truth: we are obliged to give all existing, available versions, and let the reader draw her own conclusions. Nishidani ( talk) 04:12, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Why do you keep doing this kind of thing over numerous pages? The link gave the pages to view. The first page stated exactly what I said was written there. And you persist in plunking down silly tags, 'not in source'. It's now getting to be noisome. Probably, to edit in what was written there, which you apparently did not read, I had to break 1R today, innocuously. Look, if you have a problem, state it on the talk page. In English 'had been killed by an Israeli soldier' in the active means 'An Israeli soldier had killed him'. Got it? Nishidani ( talk) 19:39, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Igorp A minor tutorial This page is an overview of a practice , practical, technical, cultural and historical. All of your edits are getting fixated on minutiae, fail to enlighten, and only complicate the broad narrative. Nishidani ( talk) 19:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I proposed (a) Israeli-Palestinian and (b) ‘demonstrations’ because that was the language of the first source, Grinberg. The principle is not to stray from source language too far.
You come back with
Which is (a) ungrammatical, i.e. unacceptable English and (b) contains a meaningless italicization. As shown in earlier arguments on wiki, though Israeli Arab is the preferred government term, the self-identifier ‘Israeli Palestinian’/Palestinian Israeli’ became the preferred term in the wake of 2000. Nishidani ( talk) 19:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
There’s another point. The article October 2000 events is about Northern Israel. The Jaffa riots was in response per sources to events reported both throughout Israel and from Gaza and the West Bank, suggesting that October 2000 page is inappropriate. Nishidani ( talk) 19:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
The Hassan Bek Mosque in Jaffa was stoned in October 2000 by Jews, who tried to set it on fire, in the wake of "Palestinian citizens of Israel" demonstrations (Grinberg, 2009[81]) and local rioting, and stone throwing in solidarity with West Bank protesters (Adam LeBor[159]), and Ilan Pappe has claimed it is regularly ({{ clarify}} should be added) subject to stoning.[160]
"Your (Ehud) account of events does not match the impression of any country in the world,” he (Chirac) said. “At Camp David, Israel did in fact make a significant step towards peace, but Sharon’s visit was the detonator, and everything has exploded. This morning, sixty-four Palestinians are dead, nine Israeli-Arabs were also killed,and you’re pressing on. You cannot, Mr Prime Minister, explain this ratio in the number of wounded. You cannot make anyone believe that the Palestinians are the aggressors . . .When I was a company commander in Algeria, I also thought I was right. I fought the guerillas. Later I realized I was wrong. It is the honour of the strong, to reach out and not to shoot. Today you must reach out your hand. If you continue to fire from helicopters on people throwing rocks, and you continue to refuse an international inquiry, you are turning down a gesture from Arafat. You have no idea how hard I pushed Arafat to agree to a trilateral meeting. Gilead Sher , The Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations, 1999–2001: within reach, Routledge 2006 pp.161-162.</ref>
according to Lev Luis Grinberg (added by me), to use all the weapons in its arsenal, including snipers, and shooting missiles from Apache helicopters at demonstrators and buildings. He concludes ‘It responded with disproportionate force that only an army can unleash totally out of place against stone-throwing civilians
( 13:23, 13 April 2015; with sources see in " Palestinian_stone-throwing|Such reliable (?) sources, used by Nishidani :( subtopic above)"
Sometimes, in clashes between IDF forces and Palestinians, concrete blocks were used to kill the adversary. In Beit Sahour on the 18th of July 1988 Edmond Ghanem (17) was killed when a soldier dropped a building block on his head from the third story Israeli army outpost in the municipal building as Ghanem walked by.<[110][111][112] In Nablus on 24 February 1989 Israeli Paratrooper Binyamin Meisner was killed by a cement block dropped from the top of a building during clashes between Israeli troops and local residents in the town market.[113]
Last his edit (19:27, 15 April 2015):
Sometimes, in clashes between IDF forces and Palestinians, concrete blocks were used to kill or occasioned the death of the adversary. In Beit Sahour on the 18th of July 1988, a building block from the third story of the municipal building where an Israeli army outpost was located, hit and killed Edmond Ghanem (17), a Roman Catholic who happened to be passing by after shopping in a suq. Villagers claimed soldiers had thrown it. Israeli soldiers stationed on the roof subsequently stated that had blown off the roof.An IDF investigation concluded it was a 'tragic accident'. Some scholars interpret it as a killing.[113][114][115][116][117][118][119]
-- Igorp_lj ( talk) 22:47, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
In Beit Sahour on the 18th of July 1988, a building block from the third story of the municipal building where an Israeli army outpost was located, hit and killed Edmond Ghanem (17),[113] a Roman Catholic who happened to be passing by after shopping in a suq. Villagers claimed soldiers had thrown it. Israeli soldiers stationed on the roof subsequently stated that had blown off the roof.[114] An IDF investigation concluded it was a 'tragic accident'.[113][115] Some scholars interpret it as a killing.[116][117]
BTW: what connection to the article's subject has such your text:
? -- Igorp_lj ( talk) 10:00, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Settler stone throwing is endemic and widely video-ed and photographed. Are there no pictures uploaded to provide a balance to the article? Likewise, Palestinian cars are often targeted by settler stone-throwers, as today's example shows, which exactly parallels the picture of a damaged Israeli settler car damaged, which we have here. Can anyone find some photos of this aspect, for use here? Nishidani ( talk) 15:39, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Stone throwing is illegal worldwide.[9] In Israel as in other western countries police attempt to control stone-throwing rioters with non-lethal tactics, such as riot shields and tear gas
The wiki article that links this is Criminal rock throwing. Two countries are mentioned, Australia and the US. (b) wiki is not RS (c) Israel is a not a Western country (4) the sources that stated the contrary were buried in footnotes, but contradict the reformulation, since many sources state that Israel's historic response is not that adopted in 'most other countries' and certainly not in Western countries. An editor that readjusts against sources, manipulating links and justifying this as NPOV is being provocative, not serious.
You can't allow that to stand in the face of sources that say:
Stone throwing is not considered a deadly force in most countries: in the West firearms are not used in crowd or riot dispersals and proportionality of force is the norm, except where immediate danger to life exists.(Pete van Reenben in ‘Children as Victims in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. Policing Realities and Police Training,' Charles W. Greenbaum,Philip E. Veerman,Naomi Bacon-Shnoor (eds.), Protection of Children During Armed Political Conflict: A Multidisciplinary Perspective, Intersentia Antwerp/Oxford 2006 pp371-393 p.384:’Stone throwing is not considered a deadly force in most countries, and the reaction of the police is protection by shields and protective clothing, out-manoeuvering the stone-throwers, water cannons and occasional tear-gas. In Western countries, fire-arms are not used, apart from cases of immediate danger to life.to life. The open fire regulation used by Israeli forces, as far as is clear what it contains, seems to allow for a much faster use of fire arms and for heavier arms than is usual in demonstrations elsewhere. The requirement of proportionality of force, . . does not appear to apply here.')
Rock throwing is also illegal, both in Israel and around the world. In Australia, Section 49A of the Crimes Act provides a maximum 5-year prison sentence for "throwing rocks and other objects at vehicles and vessels." In the United States, tossing rocks at cars can be a felony assault, or get you charged with "throwing a deadly missile" in some states, which comes with a sentence of up to 15 years in prison. There is nothing at all unusual or extreme about Israel’s treatment of rock throwers.
Linn is misconstrued: she writes,’an undeclared war that that wasd often led by women and children who used “cold,” though very often lethal, ammunition.’ Becomes ‘lethal assault’. My version respected that ‘very often’( ‘Other argue that such stone throwing has involved recourse to lethel objects’. Gregory has made an absolute statement out of a qualified statement. Nishidani ( talk) 11:02, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Again, Gregory's sheer incompetence. The reference is on the page (David A. McDonald, ‘Performative Politics: Folklore and Popular resistance in the First Palestine Intifada,’ in Moslih Kanaaneh, Stig-Magnus Thorsén, Heather Bursheh, David A. McDonald (eds.) Palestinian Music and Song: Expression and Resistance since 1900, Indiana University Press, 2013 pp123-140), and he can't see it. Perhaps because the name conjures up hamburgers if misspelt, as it was before I began rewriting the page. I.e. David A. MacDonald understands stone throwing as, "resistance performance... strategically engineered to reinforce the sacred relationship between the nation and the land". Nishidani ( talk) 15:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
(One) ‘looks in vain for a handsome face among the grown-up males (Jews). This I attribute to the constant debasement of their minds, in which the thoughts of servility, avarice, deceit, and the meanest subtlety, are daily gaining the ascendancy over the more radiant virtues of nature, visible in the jocund open countenance of extreme youth. Then Jewish boy has hardly turned his seventh year, when he is taken in hand by the elder brethren, and taught “to make the worse appear the better bargain.” From this moment, so strong are their passions, the child becomes ugly. This will be easier imagined when we consider the debasement to which they are subject, even from the children of a true believer. "I have seen a little fellow of six years old, with a troop of fat toddlers of only three and four, teaching [them] to throw stones at a Jew.But such, and ten times as much will Moses endure for the sake of cheating his persecutor at some future period, and this is, besides its individual advanrtage, the sweetest revenge of a Jew.’ Captain George Robert Beauclerk, A journey to Marocco, in 1826, Poole &Edwards, London 1828 pp.279-230.
In answer to User:IRISZOOM's question. The law is not a matter of "view". It is a matter of law. Stone throwing is a criminal act, stone-throwers are arrested, tried and convicted. Many observers share your "view" that this is unjust. Other observers take the "view" that since thrown stones can kill and maim, stone-throwers are appropriately subject ot arrest. But none of these "views" is relevant. Journalists, even journalists writing articles stridently opposing the arrest of stone-throwing Palestinians, acknowledge that the law as it presently stands treats throwing stones as a crime (whether during demonstrations or at cars) (see [1], [2], [3] for articles highly sympathetic to Palestinian rock-throwere that describe arrest, trial and imprisonment under law) The mere fact that you "view" a fact as unjust does not change the fact. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 16:16, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Nishidani ( talk) 15:02, 26 March 2015 (UTC) Input would be appreciated by editors, preferably with a neutral attitude to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, regarding the appropriatness of the title of this article. Stone-throwing in the I/P area is often associated with Palestinian behavior. It is also widely attested for settler behavior. Should the article's focus be changed to include stone-throwing behavior by both parties to the dispute? Nishidani ( talk) 15:08, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Igorp lj, you changed from "Palestinians" to "Arabs" and wrote in the edit summary "(Palestinian) Arabs - as in RS". So why did you then not change to "Palestinian Arabs"? If you look in the two sources, they use both terms many times. Why not specify it and only say "Arabs"? It is not like any Arab, like from Bahrain or Tunisia, is referred to but those in Palestine. -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 23:18, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Stone throwing played an important, if secondary role, after firearms,[42] in the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine (thawra) against the British Mandatory government. In October 1936 a Collective Punishment Ordinance was invoked to impose punitive measures on villages implicated in stone-throwing against passing vehicles. The Nablus District Commissioner Hugh Foot posted a notice warning Arabs that not only boy stone-throwers but also their fathers and guardians would be punished.[43] British Mandatory forces shot into a milling crowd when stones were thrown at Barkley's Bank in Nablus in October 1933, as Arabs went on strike and demonstrated out of fears they would be replaced by a nation of Jewish immigrants, large numbers of whom had recently entered the country. Several protestors were wounded. On the same day, in Haifa, 4 protesters among a stone-throwing crowd swarming around a police station were killed. Similar incidents occurred in Jaffa. In all 26 Palestinian Arabs were shot dead, and a further 187 wounded as the nation-wide strike was suppressed.[44]
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
Should there be a section on stone throwing attacks on Egyptian border guards at the Egypt-Gaza border? There have been quite a few such confrontations in recent years. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 22:06, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
If you cite that stuff you must contextualize it. The last named incident occurred when Israel blocked off all exits and entrances, Palestinians broke the Egyptian wall, and stone throwing, and shooting occurred,(for which Hamas apologized) (Ellen Knickmeyer, 'Egyptians Reseal Border, Cutting Access From Gaza,' Washington Post February 4, 2008.
I think therefore, to avoid 'bloat', that one should simply note that stone throwing also extends at times to the Rafah border area. Nishidani ( talk) 04:31, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Subsections are needed separating the use of stone throwing in political demonstrations (which are termed riots in English the minute the segue into throwing stones) from the Palestinian practice practice of standing near roads and throwing stones at vehicles presumed ot carry Isrealis, and throwing stones at pedestrians in quiet streets where no demonstration is taking place. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Speaking of which, article should mention cases where Arabs in a car have been injured by Arabs throwing stones at vehicles they presumed to be carrying Jews? E.M.Gregory ( talk) 17:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
I was going to bring it up some days ago when I saw it but didn't have time so I ask now: what is Category:Deaths by rocks thrown at cars doing here? If this were an article about people killed by that, it would be included. That category is for articles like Death of Adele Biton, which describes a person killed in a car crash because of a rock was thrown at the car. -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 19:16, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Igorp's edit is totally unacceptable Edmond Ghanem's death is alluded to in at least a dozen good sources, since, together with the mysterious death of Basem Rishmawi, it is remembered in Beit Sahour and studied by scholars of the Christian community there. One cannot, Igorp, wipe out scholars who specialize in that area's history and write decades after the event, in the light of broad studies, and interviews, and replace them with a single primary source raw report from 1988, that just sums up two versions. If commonsense prevails over the recent wave of atrocious editing, then most of the sourcing, and paraphrasing of sources, I have provided can be removed. As it is, one has to provisorily give the fuller picture because editors are tampering with this to spin a POV. IDF investigations have no more authority than scholarly investigations. We don't know the truth: we are obliged to give all existing, available versions, and let the reader draw her own conclusions. Nishidani ( talk) 04:12, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Why do you keep doing this kind of thing over numerous pages? The link gave the pages to view. The first page stated exactly what I said was written there. And you persist in plunking down silly tags, 'not in source'. It's now getting to be noisome. Probably, to edit in what was written there, which you apparently did not read, I had to break 1R today, innocuously. Look, if you have a problem, state it on the talk page. In English 'had been killed by an Israeli soldier' in the active means 'An Israeli soldier had killed him'. Got it? Nishidani ( talk) 19:39, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Igorp A minor tutorial This page is an overview of a practice , practical, technical, cultural and historical. All of your edits are getting fixated on minutiae, fail to enlighten, and only complicate the broad narrative. Nishidani ( talk) 19:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I proposed (a) Israeli-Palestinian and (b) ‘demonstrations’ because that was the language of the first source, Grinberg. The principle is not to stray from source language too far.
You come back with
Which is (a) ungrammatical, i.e. unacceptable English and (b) contains a meaningless italicization. As shown in earlier arguments on wiki, though Israeli Arab is the preferred government term, the self-identifier ‘Israeli Palestinian’/Palestinian Israeli’ became the preferred term in the wake of 2000. Nishidani ( talk) 19:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
There’s another point. The article October 2000 events is about Northern Israel. The Jaffa riots was in response per sources to events reported both throughout Israel and from Gaza and the West Bank, suggesting that October 2000 page is inappropriate. Nishidani ( talk) 19:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
The Hassan Bek Mosque in Jaffa was stoned in October 2000 by Jews, who tried to set it on fire, in the wake of "Palestinian citizens of Israel" demonstrations (Grinberg, 2009[81]) and local rioting, and stone throwing in solidarity with West Bank protesters (Adam LeBor[159]), and Ilan Pappe has claimed it is regularly ({{ clarify}} should be added) subject to stoning.[160]
"Your (Ehud) account of events does not match the impression of any country in the world,” he (Chirac) said. “At Camp David, Israel did in fact make a significant step towards peace, but Sharon’s visit was the detonator, and everything has exploded. This morning, sixty-four Palestinians are dead, nine Israeli-Arabs were also killed,and you’re pressing on. You cannot, Mr Prime Minister, explain this ratio in the number of wounded. You cannot make anyone believe that the Palestinians are the aggressors . . .When I was a company commander in Algeria, I also thought I was right. I fought the guerillas. Later I realized I was wrong. It is the honour of the strong, to reach out and not to shoot. Today you must reach out your hand. If you continue to fire from helicopters on people throwing rocks, and you continue to refuse an international inquiry, you are turning down a gesture from Arafat. You have no idea how hard I pushed Arafat to agree to a trilateral meeting. Gilead Sher , The Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations, 1999–2001: within reach, Routledge 2006 pp.161-162.</ref>
according to Lev Luis Grinberg (added by me), to use all the weapons in its arsenal, including snipers, and shooting missiles from Apache helicopters at demonstrators and buildings. He concludes ‘It responded with disproportionate force that only an army can unleash totally out of place against stone-throwing civilians
( 13:23, 13 April 2015; with sources see in " Palestinian_stone-throwing|Such reliable (?) sources, used by Nishidani :( subtopic above)"
Sometimes, in clashes between IDF forces and Palestinians, concrete blocks were used to kill the adversary. In Beit Sahour on the 18th of July 1988 Edmond Ghanem (17) was killed when a soldier dropped a building block on his head from the third story Israeli army outpost in the municipal building as Ghanem walked by.<[110][111][112] In Nablus on 24 February 1989 Israeli Paratrooper Binyamin Meisner was killed by a cement block dropped from the top of a building during clashes between Israeli troops and local residents in the town market.[113]
Last his edit (19:27, 15 April 2015):
Sometimes, in clashes between IDF forces and Palestinians, concrete blocks were used to kill or occasioned the death of the adversary. In Beit Sahour on the 18th of July 1988, a building block from the third story of the municipal building where an Israeli army outpost was located, hit and killed Edmond Ghanem (17), a Roman Catholic who happened to be passing by after shopping in a suq. Villagers claimed soldiers had thrown it. Israeli soldiers stationed on the roof subsequently stated that had blown off the roof.An IDF investigation concluded it was a 'tragic accident'. Some scholars interpret it as a killing.[113][114][115][116][117][118][119]
-- Igorp_lj ( talk) 22:47, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
In Beit Sahour on the 18th of July 1988, a building block from the third story of the municipal building where an Israeli army outpost was located, hit and killed Edmond Ghanem (17),[113] a Roman Catholic who happened to be passing by after shopping in a suq. Villagers claimed soldiers had thrown it. Israeli soldiers stationed on the roof subsequently stated that had blown off the roof.[114] An IDF investigation concluded it was a 'tragic accident'.[113][115] Some scholars interpret it as a killing.[116][117]
BTW: what connection to the article's subject has such your text:
? -- Igorp_lj ( talk) 10:00, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Settler stone throwing is endemic and widely video-ed and photographed. Are there no pictures uploaded to provide a balance to the article? Likewise, Palestinian cars are often targeted by settler stone-throwers, as today's example shows, which exactly parallels the picture of a damaged Israeli settler car damaged, which we have here. Can anyone find some photos of this aspect, for use here? Nishidani ( talk) 15:39, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Stone throwing is illegal worldwide.[9] In Israel as in other western countries police attempt to control stone-throwing rioters with non-lethal tactics, such as riot shields and tear gas
The wiki article that links this is Criminal rock throwing. Two countries are mentioned, Australia and the US. (b) wiki is not RS (c) Israel is a not a Western country (4) the sources that stated the contrary were buried in footnotes, but contradict the reformulation, since many sources state that Israel's historic response is not that adopted in 'most other countries' and certainly not in Western countries. An editor that readjusts against sources, manipulating links and justifying this as NPOV is being provocative, not serious.
You can't allow that to stand in the face of sources that say:
Stone throwing is not considered a deadly force in most countries: in the West firearms are not used in crowd or riot dispersals and proportionality of force is the norm, except where immediate danger to life exists.(Pete van Reenben in ‘Children as Victims in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. Policing Realities and Police Training,' Charles W. Greenbaum,Philip E. Veerman,Naomi Bacon-Shnoor (eds.), Protection of Children During Armed Political Conflict: A Multidisciplinary Perspective, Intersentia Antwerp/Oxford 2006 pp371-393 p.384:’Stone throwing is not considered a deadly force in most countries, and the reaction of the police is protection by shields and protective clothing, out-manoeuvering the stone-throwers, water cannons and occasional tear-gas. In Western countries, fire-arms are not used, apart from cases of immediate danger to life.to life. The open fire regulation used by Israeli forces, as far as is clear what it contains, seems to allow for a much faster use of fire arms and for heavier arms than is usual in demonstrations elsewhere. The requirement of proportionality of force, . . does not appear to apply here.')
Rock throwing is also illegal, both in Israel and around the world. In Australia, Section 49A of the Crimes Act provides a maximum 5-year prison sentence for "throwing rocks and other objects at vehicles and vessels." In the United States, tossing rocks at cars can be a felony assault, or get you charged with "throwing a deadly missile" in some states, which comes with a sentence of up to 15 years in prison. There is nothing at all unusual or extreme about Israel’s treatment of rock throwers.
Linn is misconstrued: she writes,’an undeclared war that that wasd often led by women and children who used “cold,” though very often lethal, ammunition.’ Becomes ‘lethal assault’. My version respected that ‘very often’( ‘Other argue that such stone throwing has involved recourse to lethel objects’. Gregory has made an absolute statement out of a qualified statement. Nishidani ( talk) 11:02, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Again, Gregory's sheer incompetence. The reference is on the page (David A. McDonald, ‘Performative Politics: Folklore and Popular resistance in the First Palestine Intifada,’ in Moslih Kanaaneh, Stig-Magnus Thorsén, Heather Bursheh, David A. McDonald (eds.) Palestinian Music and Song: Expression and Resistance since 1900, Indiana University Press, 2013 pp123-140), and he can't see it. Perhaps because the name conjures up hamburgers if misspelt, as it was before I began rewriting the page. I.e. David A. MacDonald understands stone throwing as, "resistance performance... strategically engineered to reinforce the sacred relationship between the nation and the land". Nishidani ( talk) 15:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
(One) ‘looks in vain for a handsome face among the grown-up males (Jews). This I attribute to the constant debasement of their minds, in which the thoughts of servility, avarice, deceit, and the meanest subtlety, are daily gaining the ascendancy over the more radiant virtues of nature, visible in the jocund open countenance of extreme youth. Then Jewish boy has hardly turned his seventh year, when he is taken in hand by the elder brethren, and taught “to make the worse appear the better bargain.” From this moment, so strong are their passions, the child becomes ugly. This will be easier imagined when we consider the debasement to which they are subject, even from the children of a true believer. "I have seen a little fellow of six years old, with a troop of fat toddlers of only three and four, teaching [them] to throw stones at a Jew.But such, and ten times as much will Moses endure for the sake of cheating his persecutor at some future period, and this is, besides its individual advanrtage, the sweetest revenge of a Jew.’ Captain George Robert Beauclerk, A journey to Marocco, in 1826, Poole &Edwards, London 1828 pp.279-230.
In answer to User:IRISZOOM's question. The law is not a matter of "view". It is a matter of law. Stone throwing is a criminal act, stone-throwers are arrested, tried and convicted. Many observers share your "view" that this is unjust. Other observers take the "view" that since thrown stones can kill and maim, stone-throwers are appropriately subject ot arrest. But none of these "views" is relevant. Journalists, even journalists writing articles stridently opposing the arrest of stone-throwing Palestinians, acknowledge that the law as it presently stands treats throwing stones as a crime (whether during demonstrations or at cars) (see [1], [2], [3] for articles highly sympathetic to Palestinian rock-throwere that describe arrest, trial and imprisonment under law) The mere fact that you "view" a fact as unjust does not change the fact. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 16:16, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Nishidani ( talk) 15:02, 26 March 2015 (UTC) Input would be appreciated by editors, preferably with a neutral attitude to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, regarding the appropriatness of the title of this article. Stone-throwing in the I/P area is often associated with Palestinian behavior. It is also widely attested for settler behavior. Should the article's focus be changed to include stone-throwing behavior by both parties to the dispute? Nishidani ( talk) 15:08, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Igorp lj, you changed from "Palestinians" to "Arabs" and wrote in the edit summary "(Palestinian) Arabs - as in RS". So why did you then not change to "Palestinian Arabs"? If you look in the two sources, they use both terms many times. Why not specify it and only say "Arabs"? It is not like any Arab, like from Bahrain or Tunisia, is referred to but those in Palestine. -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 23:18, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Stone throwing played an important, if secondary role, after firearms,[42] in the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine (thawra) against the British Mandatory government. In October 1936 a Collective Punishment Ordinance was invoked to impose punitive measures on villages implicated in stone-throwing against passing vehicles. The Nablus District Commissioner Hugh Foot posted a notice warning Arabs that not only boy stone-throwers but also their fathers and guardians would be punished.[43] British Mandatory forces shot into a milling crowd when stones were thrown at Barkley's Bank in Nablus in October 1933, as Arabs went on strike and demonstrated out of fears they would be replaced by a nation of Jewish immigrants, large numbers of whom had recently entered the country. Several protestors were wounded. On the same day, in Haifa, 4 protesters among a stone-throwing crowd swarming around a police station were killed. Similar incidents occurred in Jaffa. In all 26 Palestinian Arabs were shot dead, and a further 187 wounded as the nation-wide strike was suppressed.[44]