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The title of this article is inherently POV. Perhaps a name change is in order? Or it can be put under a single article, "US imperialism", which could debate the term, not present it as a POV history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Willowx ( talk • contribs) 17 July 2005
That is not "fact"-- it is POV. The title of this article is fundamentally POV, since the debate would be WHETHER the US was or was not imperial. This article should be merged in Imperialism or deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.184.80.132 ( talk • contribs)
The US was imperialist, all that is arguable is that it still is. It is a fact that it was imperialist however. It was in a situation similar to Russia where its empire was on its borders not in far off lands. I didn't write this too well though hopefully you can understand what I mean and impliment it beter. -- Josquius 16:52, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
CIA support for the overthrow of Allende in Chile is confirmed. Here is a link to the primary source documents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alex S ( talk • contribs)
Uh, no it doesn't. All this confirms is that the US was trying to prevent Allende from coming to power, which is not disputed. Show me the sources where it shows CIA agents giving instructions to the Chilean military on how and when to make the coup. —Preceding unsigned comment added by J.J. ( talk • contribs)
As Im sure the CIA have never tried anything simliar to it. Let me just call my friend at the Agency and Im sure how glad he would be to let me have a copy of the "How to make a Coup D´Etat in 10 steps and letting the whole world know about it". LtDoc 17:11, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
Since this page was ginormous, I moved most of it into an archive. I hope to be expanding several sections of the page soon (don't worry, no more on Indian Wars), so I'm sure that we're going to end up needing some space on the talkpage =). -- Alex S 05:49, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I am a professional editor and technical writer in the oil and gas industry and my comments are focused solely in the role of editor.
There is much in this article that is verifiable fact. However, much of this article is stated in POV terminology and should be restated in NPOV term. Any sentence or phrase that includes “some believe…”, “some would argue…”, or “some claim…” is de facto POV and weakens the entire article. These need to be edited such that they state verifiable fact or cite a direct reference to the source of the opinion quoted (as is done for opinions cited to Mark Twain). If there is no citable, verifiable source, then the sentences or phrases are, by definition, POV comments and should be deleted. This is specifically discussed in the Wikipedia policy titled “Avoid weasel words”.
I also recommend re-phrasing, deleting, or citing sources for views ascribed to historical figures. An example of this can be found in the section on the Louisiana Purchase, in the second paragraph, where the phrase “…Jefferson felt that…” appears. Without a citation as to a source for this (for example, a reference to a published work containing writings by Jefferson where he states why he did something), this is speculation and does not seem to meet Wikipedia’s verifiability policy.
Thank you for your time. --PW July 8, 2005 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.236.0.61 ( talk • contribs)
For refrence here is a copy of the deleted list:
The following is a list of incidents involving the United States which some suspect as having hidden or overt imperialist motivations:
Posted by: —Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonP ( talk • contribs)
I'm restoring some of my past comments on this page, seeing how some of the same confusions keep popping up. 172 07:05, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Ugh. More back and forward normative debates. More moral judgments and catch-phrase throwing. This might as well be Hannity and Colmes on Fox News. While AlexS has been doing some serious work, this article isn't going to work out on Wiki. It's just going to become more of a breeding ground for partisan trolling and posturing. On one hand, you'll have a forum for Anti-Americanism, and, on the other, you'll have to deal with J.J.'s personal essays and rationalizations. The only way to create an atmosphere conductive to some real historical writing on the subject is to redirect it to a new article on the diplomatic and military history of the United States. If anyone wants to do so, I can recommend scores of sources with ISBN numbers. I can also provide links to articles online if users want to get the new article done fairly quickly. 172 01:53, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The title is fine (not my choice for an article entry, though), but I understand why some users are suspicious. When familiar only with the popular usage of "imperialism," general readers and students often use this term without knowing what it means. They assume that it is a pejorative term.
However, in diplomatic and military history, "imperialism" is a standard, value-neutral term. It merely refers to influence by nations or peoples over weaker nations or peoples. Dating from antiquity, imperialism has taken many forms. Thus, general readers often conflate imperialism and colonialism, which is properly used in a more restrictive sense.
Colonialism entails formal political control involving territorial annexation. Imperialism can be exercised formally or informally, directly or indirectly, politically or economically. One can say that colonialism is a form of imperialism, but not vice versa.
Having observed so many ridiculous, protracted edit wars stemming from the failure to understand standard, encyclopedic definitions, I would not have created this article. Given the likelihood of conflicts and misunderstanding on Wiki, a broader focus on the Military and diplomatic history of the United States, IMHO, would have worked out better. But you already have too much work here to change the title. Without a substantial rewrite, no other title is appropriate. While the title is going to raise eyebrows occasionally, it is not a violation of NPOV policies so long as the article stays on focus. 172 11:37, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I haven't added any content to this article (other than removing some irrelevant tangents). Nor was this my choice for an article. If users don't know the definition of the term, you can edit the article and add it to the intro. A word may be widely confused, but it's fine so long as this article uses properly. 172 03:08, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Umm...If you are using a term that is likely to be misunderstood by a large segment of the reading population, it is your responsibility to make its meaning clear. Wikipedia is not a specialized social-sciences encyclopedia. In case you haven't looked, the current contents of the Imperialism article (which this article rightly links to) begins with:
That being said, my major issue with this article is the use of "some" and "others" (as in, "Some argue that this means by which the United States expanded and asserted its authority were classic examples of imperialism; others disagree.") Me and my cat could argue something, and that would be "some". You need verifiable sources of information. Of course, this is an issue with many articles, but it's particularly important to correct it here if there is any hope of this article being anything worthwhile. - Rholton 00:42, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
Even though it might be so that some (many?) people are misinformed with regard to the exact meaning(s) of 'imperialism', the word does best describe the totality of many US foreign policies in especially the late 19th century. Above-mentioned examples such as 'colonialism' and 'hegemony' do not adequately cover the whole situation: especially the projected special status of US traders in Japan and the forcing through of the Chinese Open Door-system cannot be expressed together with the above-mentioned words, and clearly result from imperialist tendencies. (Please note that I believe the page on Imperialism should be modified slightly; see the discussion page of that article for my remarks.)
Wikipedia should use the correct terminology, and if this terminology is somewhat hazy through popular usage, we should redirect readers to Wikipedia's own definition as soon as the possibility presents itself, and stick to that definition except where the specific usage in an article might deviate somewhat. This is why I'm not too happy with having an explanation about the usage of the term 'imperialiasm' in this article, as this only adds to the confusion.
On the whole I do not believe this article to be NPOV, though I too believe the usage of 'some' and 'others' in this article to be somewhat unspecified. Discussion on modern imperialism will always provoke some bad sentiment, as this concept is much less clearly defined than 19th century imperialism; cultural imperialism in particular has few hard definitions. Before fighting over what does and what does not comprise modern American imperialism, a workable definition of modern imperialism should be found, and it should be made clear when foreign policies and even extranational intervention becomes 'imperialist'.--
Santetjan 7 July 2005 18:34 (UTC)
I find that surprising. Or are those "Americans" including the Native Americans? Does anyone have a good source for 1848 population figures? –Hajor 19:33, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. - Splash 01:39, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Portions of an article called American Empire duplicate the subject of this article. The rest of the article is about a rhetorical device and should not be merged. - Acjelen 16:40, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me how I'm supposed to cite an article in a college paper? Thanks. Karatloz 19:34, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand why there is a debate. Just combine the two articles (under the same names) and it's all well and good. - web alias zeppelincheetah
"After the Louisiana Purchase, Thomas Jefferson signed the Louisiana Government Bill, which denied the new United States territory the right to self-government. Instead, it was to be ruled by military officials under direct orders from the capitol. Since most of the population of the territory consisted of non-whites and Catholics, Jefferson felt that the government should suspend its right to self-government until enough white settlers moved west to command a majority."
Can we get some actual cites and evidence for this? Otherwise, it doesn't seem very NPOV
--ViperDaim 64.154.26.251 18:27, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Stating that the current cultural imperialism is "unintentional" and "a side effect of capitalism" and that "government has no role on the industries" of culture is extreme POV. LtDoc 16:08, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I added these quotes to wikipedia and then added an external link to this page.
“…in Britain, empire was justified as a benevolent "white man's burden." And in the United States, empire does not even exist; "we" are merely protecting the causes of freedom, democracy, and justice worldwide.”
--The Editors, "After the attacks…the war on terrorism", Monthly Review, 53, 6, Nov., 2001. P 7
The term “imperialism”...overuse and...abuse is making it nearly meaningless as an analytical concept. Thorton concluded that “imperialism” is “more often the name of the emotion that reacts to a series of events than a definition of the events themselves….Colonization finds analysts and analogies, imperialism must contend with crusaders for and against.” --“Benevolent Assimilation” The American Conquest of the Philippines, 1899-1903; Stuart Creighton Miller Travb
Jingoist Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.
I have been monitoring this entry for about 2 weeks. I am disappointed at the extreme Jingoists who frequent this entry. Every day someone else tries to vandilize this site.
There has never been a "Vote for Deletion" about America being the "beacon of freedom" to the world. None of these jingotists would argue that this is POV.
Since jingotists cannot argue the history of American imperialism, they characteristically attack the source, trying to other like minded jingoists delete the site.
Pathetic, irrational behavior you should be ashamed. Travb 20:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
213.141.89.53 23:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
User 24.60.161.63 deleted the cartoon showing uncle sam balancing all his new imperialist treasures. User 24.60.161.63 deleted it stating that it was a "pointless" cartoon. I reverted this cartoon back--can User 24.60.161.63 explain why he feels that this cartoon is pointless? Travb 16:39, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
In the first sentence of the introduction we read that the United States was initially "of little international import." Little import compared to WHAT?
Later the introduction describes the 13 colonies as "small." Small compared to WHAT? To what it became later? Too obvious to mention. Small compared to European states? Untrue. The remainder of the introduction makes analogies rather than saying what the article is about.
The first dates we encounter in the article itself are the 1960s and 1970s. The historiography is discussed before the history, and then we are told truisms and informed that they are truisms. Fortunately, the rest of the article is better than the terrible start while most of it still manages to be simply bad with lapses into the terrible. I tried to fix American exceptionalism but now I have less time, so I'm just tagging this and hoping someone else will do a repair. This article shouldn't be deleted. It should be improved. Flying Jazz 04:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The 13 american colonies barely survived the war for independence. I would like to know if it means area or power. If area, then not technically small. If by power, then small in all sences of the word. On comparison with a former empire like spain. Not on par with Britain despite victory. Surviving an invasion is not a sign of a superpower. SO yes, small.
I am having a hard time figuring out why this page is here. Most of the topics listed here belong in other articles. Incidents involving the Indian Wars and U.S. westward expansion belong in Manifest Destiny. Incidents involving U.S. policy in the Americas belong in the Monroe Doctrine. Current issues belong in Foreign relations of the United States. This page seems merely to be a place for persons with anti-american views to express themselves. I think this article should be dismantled and the information moved to other appropriate articles. Please discuss.
Excuse me, but isn't it up to people to judge the value of the word imperialism? Not you. Using a word like imperialism, does not make it POV. I see imperialism as a bad thing, I think the US consistently have continued in it for the last 150-200 years or so, but does that mean that that everyone sees it that way? Im sure some ultra conservative jiongist thinks its awesome to invade countries. The simple fact is, the US have had a consistent jiongistic/imperialistic foreign policy for a long time. Specific periods might be excluded. It has expanded it's territory or CONTROLLED territory if you will overseas. Question is in my mind what is expansion? Military bases? If so, then this article is way to weak. If it's military bases and puppet regimes, then WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to weak article. And so on.... If you want to argue the issue I'd be happy to provide incitement.
213.141.89.53 23:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
213.141.89.53 23:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I went through and basically copyedited the entire article ( overall diff). There remains a great deal of work to be done before the NPOV tag can come off, but I hope my edits will be viewed as a step (or giant leap!) in the right direction... Tom e r talk 10:06, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Forgive my provocative comment... Is United States an adjective?
I felt if this article was going to work, it needed a definition of imperialism at the beginning, and to differentiate the different schools of thought about Americas history and place in the world today in America. Inspired by Miller, I added:
Unfortunatly, in every major overhaul, some sentences and even paragraphs will need to be rewritten or deleted. I am sorry if my actions frustrates some of my fellow wikipedians. To avoid a revert war, I will attempt to explain why I am deleting these sentences, and work on a concensus to make this article more encyclopedic.
The following are some of the sentences I have temporarily deleted from the article, and why I feel they should be temporarily deleted and rewritten:
Others argue that there is a difference between expansionism and imperialism. They argue that the American expansion driven by settlers and a need for more land was very different from European imperialism that was primarily a search for raw materials and new markets, with colonization and settlement only an occasional side effect.
"Others" is a weasel word. Who exactly? Please name a historian who feels this way, and please quote him or paraphrase his thoughts. This paragraph becomes a little redundant with Miller's three schools of thought. The three schools of thought already discuss the viewpoints, reasoning, and justifications that Americans use.
And indeed almost every nation on earth is occupied by invaders who wrested territory from previous inhabitants, so the notion that the US began its existence through the conquest of native tribes can be called a truism, since the conquest of one population by another and subsequent change of government/sovereignty is more often than not the very definition of a new country. Otherwise, it must be noted that the United States is no more "imperialistic" on sole account of its relationship to native peoples than such nations as Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia, etc. Therefore, many would argue that while acts of conquest are generally reprehensible, acts of "imperialism" require a more specific and systematic method of exploitation (oppressive and non-mutually-beneficial in nature) and suzerainty over other nations, as opposed to mere territorial acquisition, an argument which likely makes no difference to the people actually losing their sovereignty.
This paragraph is not well written in its current form.
First portion of the paragraph
And indeed almost every nation on earth is occupied by invaders who wrested territory from previous inhabitants, so the notion that the US began its existence through the conquest of native tribes can be called a truism
followed, ironically by another truism:
since the conquest of one population by another and subsequent change of government/sovereignty is more often than not the very definition of a new country.
"more often than not" is not encyclopedic.
Like the other paragraph, this paragraph becomes a little redundant with Miller's three schools of thought, which is much better written and clearer. The three schools of thought already discuss the viewpoints, reasoning, and justifications that Americans use. The author of this difficult to read paragraph would probably fall in the first category: "patriotic American" apologist.
What exactly is this person attempting to say? I am not quite sure, except he/she is trying to minimize and justify America's actions.
almost every nation on earth is occupied by invaders who wrested territory from previous inhabitants
i.e. Since every country does it, America's territoral expansion is normal. This is a red herring falacy of logic, common with apologists. A red herring falacy of logic is when someone justifies the actions of a person by highlighting the crimes of someone else.
This is not encyclopedic, and maybe an example would explain why:
If I were descibing the attrocities of the French in Algeria on a wikipedia article on this war, would I cite Russian attrocities in Afghanistan in this article?
No.
Why?
Because I am talking about French actions in Algeria. What happened in Afghanistan is irrelevant to the discussion. Similarly, whether "Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia" is imperialistic is irrelevant to this wikiarticle. This article is not discussing "Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia". It is discussing America.
Second portion of paragraph
Therefore, many would argue that while acts of conquest are generally reprehensible, acts of "imperialism" require a more specific and systematic method of exploitation (oppressive and non-mutually-beneficial in nature) and suzerainty over other nations, as opposed to mere territorial acquisition, an argument which likely makes no difference to the people actually losing their sovereignty.
"suzerainty" --is a spelling error, I don't know what this is supposed to be.
This sentence appears tacked on to the other sentence, with no smooth transition.
The first portion justifies America's territorial expansion, stating that America is no different than other countries.
The second portion begins with a weasel phrase: "many would argue" and then states to be imperialistic, a country must be more oppresive and less helpful to the natives. This has nothing to do with the first portion of the paragraph.
Further, what authority is the author citing? Again, this sentence reaffirms Miller and Thortons argument that the word "Imperialism" cannot be used as a historical term. Travb 09:45, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
"However, the Louisiana Government Bill that followed it, although less well-known, is often cited as an early instance of heavy-handedness and hypocrisy in the early United States."
Who cited it? This is POV "heavy-handedness and hypocrisy" unless you cite and quote who said it (preferably a historian). Travb 09:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
"Some would argue that the actual owners of the bulk of land was neither France nor the United States but rather the Native Americans who had resided on it for centuries and who were not consulted about this transaction. Others would reply that this would be to apply a 20th century viewpoint to 19th century circumstances, and to assume a concept of ownership of land not actually held by Native Americans, who nevertheless may be entitled to the full benefits of such a concept regardless of their belief systems."
Other weasel phrases: "Some would argue", "Others would reply" Who says this?
This sentence is difficult to understand: "and to assume a concept of ownership of land not actually held by Native Americans, who nevertheless may be entitled to the full benefits of such a concept regardless of their belief systems"
I have no clue what the author is trying to say. Travb 09:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Since most of the population of the territory consisted of non-whites and Catholics, Jefferson felt that the government should suspend its right to self-government until enough white settlers moved west to command a majority. Modern-day critics of this choice point out the irony in the fact that Jefferson, who had decried British denial of American self rule in the Declaration of Independence, was now issuing the orders to deny self-rule in an American territory, issuing commands from half-way across the continent.
Jefferson felt that the government should suspend its right to self-government until enough white settlers moved west to command a majority.
I always cringe when anyone writes how someone felt, especially with no citied source. What did Jefferson say? Why not quote him, or add a footnote with a quote that proves that he felt this way.
Modern-day critics of this choice point out the irony in the fact that Jefferson...
Which "modern day critics"? Travb 10:03, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The Mexican-American War from 1846 to 1848 is often viewed as motivated by American imperialism. In 1846, President James K. Polk sent soldiers to the disputed zone between Mexico and the newly annexed Republic of Texas in what most historians describe as a provocation for war.
"often viewed" By who? I seriously doubt a majority of Americans view the Mexican-American War as American imperialism.
"in what most historians describe as a provocation for war."
Another sentence that makes me cringe--"most historians"
Why not instead write cite one prominent historian and replace "most" with "many". Travb 10:07, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Today, there is some question over the nature of the Mexican-American war. Most claim that it was aggressive in nature, prompted by Manifest Destiny. Among these, some historians claim that it was simply a grab for more territory, whereas others see it as part of a concerted expansionist movement, reminiscent of imperialism.
Who is questioning this? Which historians? Who are most of these people that claim the Mexican war was agressive? Historians? Americans? If this author is talking Americans, this sentence is incorrect, I have been to the Alamo and I see how Americans look upon this portion of history with pride. The Alamo museum mirrors this feeling, emphasing how ruthless the Mexican government was.
Many weasel phrases in this paragraph.... Travb 10:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The population was divided between those that saw the economic and strategic benefits of colonies and those that felt it was countrary to America's founding ideology.
This is a misleading sentence. The majority of Americans were jingoistic and supportive of this war. When the Maine sunk there was national outrage. This imaginary division of the population also ignores the other reason that was peddled by the elite for the Spanish-American war: the freedom of these colonies from Spanish control and for humanitarian reasons. The news had several articles talking about Weyler's attrocities in Cuba. It was the same tired "beacon of freedom and democracy" justification. Travb 10:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Many argue, however, that this situation amounted to the United States having a de facto empire in the Americas throughout this period.
Many would argue, however, that cultural and economic imperialism of far greater import.
Many of these interventions have been denounced by some as imperialist.
Many argue that this serves to inculcate populations with American values, while at the same time destroying indigenous cultures.
who? more weasel words... Travb 10:41, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
than of any insidious U.S. effort to spread its culture abroad, although this expansion is often condemned as such.
"insidous" is POV, condemned by who? Travb 10:55, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Should we make a "ME" list? :P I'm confused though. Who exactly could verify that word? Do I need a PH.D to make it a valid statement? I agree with what you are saying... but.. I'm just saying...
I'm sure we could find at least 5000 people who would agree with that statement, POV as it is. So where does that leave us?
213.141.89.53 23:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
The major weakness of this article is its title ( History of United States Imperialism). That is why I added the large section from Miller about "Is the United States Imperialistic?" No other article needs to explain its title in 5 plus paragraphs like this one.
I close with Miller and Thorton's point:
"Miller concludes that the term "imperialism" recent overuse and abuse makes it nearly meaningless as an analytical concept. Historian Archibald Paton Thorton wrote that "imperialism is more often the name of the emotion that reacts to a series of events than a definition of the events themselves. Where Colonization finds analysts and analogies, imperialism must contend with crusaders for and against."
This article is a lightning rod of criticism because of the "crusaders for and against", making it "nearly meaningless as an analytical concept". I suggest renaming the title to a less POV title, and moving the article, which will cause less people to attack the article.
Maybe the name: Histoy of United States foreign interventions? Travb 22:47, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
What exactly is the POV about the title. Its a fact that United States made the Philippenes, and Guam colonies. Later on we confronted the British and Germans over Samoa. Its a fact that we annexed Hawaii. It is a fact that we bought Alaska. That is all overseas expansion? The problem is the content. This article would better be suited with the title History of American Imperialism.
74.137.230.39 17:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
It can't possibly be neutral, just look at the section about "evil capitalism." It's no more objective than the communist manifesto. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by KongminRegent ( talk • contribs) .
Go ahead. Do it. Kevin Myers, Travb, and myself all agree so do it. WAS 4.250 01:26, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've removed this paragraph:
One paragraph neutrally proposing the thesis of cultural imperialism followed by two refuting it fails NPOV. I started to add some defense of the idea that cultural imperialism is something to be prevented, but decided that would make the subsection far too long. Better to leave the debate for the main cultural imperialism article. Kalkin
For anyone interested, here is some of the info that I have compiled on my blog which may be incorporated in this article or one of the others in the American empire section:
The American Empire (the bottom section quoting Miller is already part of American empire (term). Travb 04:14, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Who wrote "It is also widely believed that the US was behind the Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002." What sources are you getting your info from? T.V. talk shows? Please realize that when you state unsubstanciated info like that you cause harm to the people who are really trying to improve relations. I strongly believe that unsubstantiated claims like that are an unethical, low-blow used to distort reality. Please desist! unless you have the facts. Wikipedia is a powerful learning/teaching tool. Don't make it a cheap political squak box.
I have read the same thing in many British national newspapers including The Times and The Telegraph. Both report on global feelings that the Bush administrantion was behind the coup. CNN online also reported the same feelings.
James Quinn 20 Sept 2006, sorry, dont know my IP. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
88.111.213.247 (
talk •
contribs)
I started trying to get this article into shape, but it's probably hopeless. I added the POV warning. Why is this article even here? -- Cultural Freedom talk 2006-06-28 22:13 (UTC)
I just read the article through again, very carefully. I'll try to make changes that square to some degree with the objections raised here. (Though, yes, leaving the tag up, with a better explanation, and leaving the article alone, might be the best strategy. I may go back to my decision to adopt that strategy.) First, one important point: The article is called "History of United States overseas expansion," not "History of United States overseas expansionism." I was trying to make the article square with its title. -- Cultural Freedom talk 2006-06-29 07:16 (UTC)
Old edit:
New edit:
Thanks for your continued contributions User: Cultural Freedom.
I want to talk about a particular policy page. I wish they would change the name of this page, because it has a negtive conentation: Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words.
I will add a {{fact}} tag to this statment, lets give someone a week to respond, then lets delete the paragraph, and move the link to the see also section. I never did like that section much anyway--it seems off topic here.
The last edit has weasel words, and it is also more ackward. Read both sentences a couple of times, the new one and the old one, and see which one is more awkward.
Signed: Travb ( talk) 15:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I suspect that in the cultural imperialism article a cite could very easily be found for someone alleging the U.S. to be culturally imperialist. Kalkin 00:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Seems to me that Americans are in the minority. Really? maybe you edit other pages then I do. There is this cultural wikiarticle that tackles this, and states that the majority are American, but I read it months ago. So there is probably no way I can find this--but I will try. Travb ( talk) 12:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The article is almost entirely written from an anti-American standpoint; all aspects of US growth are treated as the result of unsavory US actions, as opposed to the result of wars, for which, in some cases, other countries were at least partly responsible. Moreover, despite the article's title, the article is about a more controversial topic: expansionism, not expansion.
The {{POV-because}} was deleted, so I moved all the info here. Travb ( talk) 04:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
The article is almost entirely written from an anti-American standpoint; all aspects of US growth are treated as the result of unsavory US actions, as opposed to the result of wars, for which, in some cases, other countries were at least partly responsible. Moreover, despite the article's title, the article is about a more controversial topic: expansionism, not expansion.
-Travb- Thanks for retaining the above information. I've added a direct link to this new section. I was going to delete the section you added, but we can just leave it for posterity! (Or you can delete it yourself; I didn't want to do anything you might feel was too "aggressive.") -- Cultural Freedom 2006-07-21 14:47 (UTC)
Not sure I grasp what you're trying to say, sorry. One thing I can say that might help: "imperialism" is simply incorrect when describing the U.S. That doesn't mean the U.S. hasn't made highly questionable foreign policy choices. But that's different. I'm not sure people here are "sensitive" in any incorrect way. They're just trying to create accurate articles. -- Cultural Freedom 2006-07-28 8:26 (UTC)
Cultural Freedom, I was perhaps a bit verbose in my last comment. What I'm saying is illustrated by Zleitzen's Cuba example. It's totally hypocritical to deny imperialistic intentions when the US exerts its influence on others for its own interest. You said using the word "imperialism" is wrong but offer no reasoning or evidence of why it is wrong. It is no more POV to label the US as "imperialists" than to label some groups "terrorists". Right after 9-11, General Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr. said in an interview that the terrorists for one side are the freedom fighters for the other. Accuracy can be relative to who you are talking to. Pseudotriton 04:07, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Are there any lingering POV issues that need to be discussed? Otherwise I will remove the POV tag. -- Swift 20:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Apparently, nearly five months after Swift's message just above, there are no lingering POV issues that justify leaving the tag up. That being the case, I'm taking it down. Buck Mulligan 05:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
There is an awful lot of Imperialism theory being employed here to explain the expansion of the U.S. THe overseas expansion of the U.S. boils down to two events: acquisition of colonies from the Spanish-American War, and the incorporation of Hawaii at the request of a foreign leader. If someone wants to diatribe about american imperialist adventures that did not result in the expansion of teh U.S. I am sure there is anotehr article devoted to it. Perhaps america as empire? Mrdthree 14:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Today (August 13th) the following was deleted from this page, this information is not terribly well researched, so I am not going to fight for its continued inclusion in the article:
==Asia==
While American intervention had begun earlier with Matthew Perry forcibly opening Japan to the West with the Convention of Kanagawa in 1854, this period saw the United States expand its presence in Asia. The U.S. pushed through the Open Door Policy that guaranteed equal economic access to China. It also vigorously acquired small islands in the Pacific, mostly to be used as coaling stations.
Throughout the later half of the 19th century, China was divided into "spheres of influence"-areas to which a foreign power ( Austria, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, and Russia) were given exclusive trading rights or even the territory itself as the result of treaties. The United States, having recently gained the Philippines in the Spanish-American War and thereby becoming a player in East Asia, felt impeded by these "spheres of influence". In an effort to equalize trade, John Hay, Secretary of State at the time (under William McKinley), sent letters to European leaders suggesting an "open door" policy in China, one that would grant equivalent trading rights to all powers inside the spheres of influence. The proposal was gently rejected. Following the Boxer Rebellion, John Hay called again for an expanded "open door" policy effective throughout China, not just within "spheres of influence". The United States and the European powers agreed to preserve Chinese independence and government.
==After World War II==
After helping defeat Nazi Germany, the United States occupied the southern portion of the Western sector of Germany (what later became West Germany) for ten years (1945 to 1955). More intense was the occupation of Japan from 1945 to 1951, during which time the US occupation force, led by General Douglas MacArthur staged a dramatic restructuring of Japanese society in order to prevent the nation from re-emerging as a military threat. (See also Japanese nationalism.) Although the occupation officially ended in the 1950's, large numbers of American troops remain today in bases in both countries. The United States also gained control of what are today the Northern Mariana Islands, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, and Palau.
During this period, the United States actively intervened in the politics of many nations, with the purpose of curbing the expansion of the influence of the Soviet Union. Many of the post-war actions were implemented as the result of Cold War policy and anti-Communist sentiment, which were the basis of much of United States foreign policy.
==Europe==
During the 1960s and 1970s it became fashionable to view the Soviet Empire in eastern Europe as comparable to the American domination of western Europe. It was frequently argued that, through economic and military pressure, the United States pursued hegemony just as aggressively as the Soviet Union. The post-revisionist school, which, since the fall of the USSR, has come to dominate the study of Cold War history, has rejected this view, arguing that the full extent of Soviet aggression has become apparent as a result of the opening of the Kremlin's archives. (See historiography of the Cold War.)
==Middle East==
After World War Two, with the continued rise in the importance of oil to the world economy, the United States increased its interest in intervention in the Middle East. While it had no formal colonies, it had sufficient influence in several countries that they are sometimes viewed as client states; these include Israel, Iran under the Shah, and various Gulf states. Since 2001, and the September 11 attacks, the U.S. has had a large number of troops in Afghanistan. Since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, it has had an even larger number in Iraq. At least some U.S. war planners were interested in U.S. military domination of the oil-rich Gulf region, the world's top supply of this most important resource, according to U.S. General Jay Garner, who was in charge of planning and administering post-war reconstruction in Iraq, explaining that the U.S. occupation of Iraq was comparable to the Philippine model: "Look back on the Philippines around the turn of the 20th century: they were a coaling station for the navy, and that allowed us to keep a great presence in the Pacific. That's what Iraq is for the next few decades: our coaling station that gives us great presence in the Middle East". (Interview on National Journal 2004, archived http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=5819&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported, http://www.alternet.org/story/17923/ )
The U.S. denies any intention to maintain long-term control of these countries; this is disputed by many, though very few allege that the U.S. intends actual annexation. However, at least some U.S. war planners are interested in long term bases in Iraq to project American power to the Middle East. "One of the most important things we can do right now is start getting basing rights with (the Iraqi authorities)", "I hope they're there a long time....And I think we'll have basing rights in the north and basing rights in the south ... we'd want to keep at least a brigade", Garner added (Interview on National Journal 2004, archived http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=5819&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported, http://www.alternet.org/story/17923/ ) Also, a report of the U.S. House of Representatives accompanying emergency spending legislation for U.S. military bases in Iraq stated that the money allocated was "of a magnitude normally associated with permanent bases". (BBC News, March 30, 2006, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4834032.stm )
==Coups==
Declassified British Cabinet papers, published in The Guardian in 1994, indicate the possibility that the CIA and MI6 both provided backing for the 1963 military coup of Iraqi Colonel Abdul Salam Arif which overthrew Brigadier General Abdul Karim Qassim. Qassim had attempted to nationalize the Iraq Petroleum Company, of which U.S. companies were major shareholders, and in order to assert Iraqi rights to the territory of Kuwait. Following the coup, the new Iraqi government abandoned both of these policies disapproved of by the governments of both the U.S. and the United Kingdom. (See also History of Iraq.) After the government of Rahman Arif took power, the U.S. again backed a coup in Iraq, bringing the Baath Party to power in 1968, [1] with Saddam Hussein eventually taking the helm. Similar tactics were used by the United States in Iran in 1953 to topple the democractially-elected Moussadegh government and to install the Shah dictatorship, see Operation Ajax, and in Chile in 1973 to install General Pinochet after the overthrow of the democratically-elected government of Dr. Salvadore Allende, see Chilean coup of 1973. In these cases U.S. interest lay in maintaining control over Iran's oil and Chile's copper. It is also widely believed that the U.S. was behind the Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002 to topple the democratically-elected government of President Hugo Chávez. citation needed
==Cultural imperialism==
{{main|Cultural imperialism}} Since the end of the Second World War the United States has been dominant in most cultural industries. US movies, television, food, and music are popular throughout the world. Thus the US has often been accused of cultural imperialism, a form of expansion overseas certainly more subtle than military conquest but perhaps with similar problems.{{fact}}
Signed: Travb ( talk) 23:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Text is already incorporated, this proposal has already been made above. Mrdthree 13:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
A wikiuser added a map to this page (first one). Why not add the other pictures in the group?
The maps were once on American Empire but first one map (Coalition map), and then the other two were removed for the American Empire page.
Reason: Talk:American_Empire#American_Empire_Map.
If this map stays, I think a great map would be the map of the Spanish empire, before the Spanish American War, and the U.S. and possessions at the turn of the 20th Century. Basically this map would show that America seized/bought all of the empire of Spain in the Western Hempisphere.
Another user brought up the point on the American_Empire page that the colonies of Spain made Spain an empire but when the US aquired them, that didn't make the US an empire? What changed? Travb ( talk) 06:26, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
The following text was flagged {{fact}}, then removed today. [4]
Signed:
Travb (
talk) 15:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
The following text was flagged {{fact}}, then removed today.
Best wishes, Travb ( talk) 17:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Being that History of United States imperialism currently redirects here, it is extremely disappointing that there is no mention of the new imperial grand strategy, popularised by John Ikenberry and Noam Chomsky. Its absence is conspicuous yet this page may already be too confused to deal with such an addition. On the other hand, I don't really know enough about it to start a new page for it. -- abfackeln 02:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and redirected the article here. It is a new article, with not much information. Travb ( talk) 18:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
The article is named 'US Overseas Expansion' and should relate only to the literal territorial expansion of the US overseas. Since everyone seems to think that this article is about American 'imperialism'(however you want to define that word)'overseas'(as if to imply the US has no right to exist where it does), I suggest that we follow the above recommendation and merge the article immediately. I am not sure how to begin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.97.15 ( talk • contribs)
Declaring overseas interventions of the united states as efforts at expanding the territorial holdings of the United States is editorializing. The fact of overseas expansion as documented in the introduction of this article can be confirmed. The fact fo overseas interventions can be confirmed. The argument that overseas interventions constitute efforts at expansion is opinion. So I started a new page Overseas interventions of the United States. Mrdthree 13:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I do not really understand the purpose of this article. Is is supposed to be about an American Empire? There is already such an article. Is it supposed to be about Opposition to United States foreign policy? There is already such an article. It is supposed to be a List of United States military history events? There is already such an article
The "Background" section talks abourt the motivations for US colonialism before WWII. On the other hand, the section on "Overseas interventions", mostly after WWII, seems to imply that all of these interventions are examples of "overseas expansion". This is OR conclusions, most of these did not lead to any expansion of US territory or possessions. Therefore, I propose that that the "Background" section should be moved to the American Empire article. If there are any interventions not listed in List of United States military history events, they should be moved there. If there is any criticisms not in Opposition to United States foreign policy, they should be moved there. Thoughts? Ultramarine 13:56, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
The purpose is simple, it identifies American expansion into foreign territories with imperialistic intent. This is a small subset of the List of United States military history events. This is a historical overview of events that the American Empire took part in, not an article on the Empire itself. It in no way endorses Opposition to United States foreign policy, it just points out some of the actions in which foreign policy has taken form. The article is substantially different from those three articles you mentioned. The existence of an 'American Empire' is disputed, and discussed in a modern context on that page, yet this history of imperialistic behaviour is undisputed and therefore should be kept separate. Therefore, the background section should stay. The military interventions listed serve as examples to this point, so they should stay. If it is critical of US foreign policy, it shouldn't be, as this would violate NPOV. The correct way to deal with criticisms would be to point them out and rework them into NPOV, perhaps by redirecting or deleting them but preferably by rewording them. Oh, and I didn't undo your wholesale redirect of this article, but really you should not have done that - this page hasn't survived a deletion review just to get redirected to a different topic. Nazlfrag 06:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
The tag is on a cite following this sentence: "After the government of Rahman Arif took power, the U.S. again backed a coup in Iraq, bringing the Baath Party to power in 1968," The cited source says:
[...] In Cairo, Damascus, Tehran and Baghdad, American agents marshaled opponents of the Iraqi regime. Washington set up a base of operations in Kuwait, intercepting Iraqi communications and radioing orders to rebels. The United States armed Kurdish insurgents. The C.I.A.'s Health Alteration Committee, as it was tactfully called, sent Kassem a monogrammed, poisoned handkerchief, though the potentially lethal gift either failed to work or never reached its victim.
Then, on Feb. 8, 1963, the conspirators staged a coup in Baghdad. For a time the government held out, but eventually Kassem gave up, and after a swift trial was shot; his body was later shown on Baghdad television. Washington immediately befriended the successor regime. Almost certainly a gain for our side, Robert Komer, a National Security Council aide, wrote to Kennedy the day of the takeover.
As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and anti-Communist Baath Party, in 1963 still a relatively small political faction influential in the Iraqi Army. According to the former Baathist leader Hani Fkaiki, among party members colluding with the C.I.A. in 1962 and 1963 was Saddam Hussein, then a 25-year-old who had fled to Cairo after taking part in a failed assassination of Kassem in 1958.
As I read that, "American agents" marshaled opponents of the Iraqi regime, then those agents and others ("the conspirators") staged a coup. Later, speaking of the coup, the author says, "As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and anti-Communist Baath Party, [...]". Perhaps the text could stand a bit of rewording, but I think that the cited source does support what the text asserts. The cited source is a bit soft, though -- a NYT Op-Ed piece requoted on a blog. -- Boracay Bill 23:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Unregistered user 203.218.71.185 had changed the section heading Annexation of Hawaii to read Invasion of Hawaii, providing as an edit summary: "American always says China invaded Tibet, why not saying USA invaded Hawaii?". User:Ultramarine reverted that with the edit summary: "not a military invasion". 203.218.71.185 re-reverted that without an edit summary, and I re-re-reverted that reversion with an edit summary pointing to this talk page discussion.
IMHO, conducting guerilla warfare is not a good way to resolve ideological differences; especially not within wikipedia. I won't take the trouble to search Wikipedia guidelines about this just now, but I feel confident that the guidelines would bear me out.
I suggest that the Tibet/China questions are better discussed in Talk:South Tibet, Talk:Sino-Indian_War, or Talk:Tibet. -- Boracay Bill 12:50, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I reject the idea to retitle this article as listed above. A better title may be possible but this is not it. A previous user finds it more objective to retitle this article american overseas empire. However I find this to be editorializing in favor of the 'american empire' notion that has become popular since 9-11. In titling the section American Empire assumptions about the nature of the current governance and administration of regions are being made that rely on ideological definitions of imperialism. Mrdthree 03:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
A map is being added to this article entitled the "American Empire". I have reverted it again [6] because as per previous discussions on this page, "American Empire" is not equal to "Overseas expansion of the United States" (that is why two separate articles exist). Furthermore, there is already a map on the page showing the overseas territories. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 01:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the FormerPossessions section and moved its former contents here
US has voluntarily left some of its overseas territories and they have gained independence. Cuba (1902), the Philippines (1946), the Panama Canal Zone (1979/1999), the Federated States of Micronesia (1986), Marshall Islands (1986), and Palau (1994) are examples.
Firstly, the language "US has voluntarily left ... and they have gained independence" is clumsy. It oversimplifies and distorts.
Secondly:
-- Boracay Bill ( talk) 22:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
It's known that Japan was occupied and essentially under American management after that country lost WWII, mostly to the USA. Shouldn't or should this be mentioned in our treatment of "overseas expansion of the USA"? 68.32.48.59 ( talk) 14:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Should the entry for Cuba be shortened? The statement regarding Guantanemo Naval Base better belongs within that article rather than as a statement within what should be a brief statement. -- 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 06:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
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After speaking of the Philippine Organic Act of 1902, bicameral legislature, the Philippine Commission (an appointive body having both U.S. and Filipino members), a popularly elected lower house, the Philippine Autonomy Act (Jones Law) of 1916, and the United States commitment to grant independence to the Philippines, "...as soon as a stable government can be established therein.", the article backed up to 1899 and said, "... the guerrilla fighters soon found that the Americans were not prepared to grant them much more autonomy than Spain had allowed." (, of courthe insurgent Malolos Republic declared war on the U.S. long before Aguinaldo shifted from conventional to guerrilla tactics, of course). There was also a "Thus," which I took as drawing an unwarranted conclusion.
The problematic bits were unsupported (though not completely untrue, despite the biased presentation). I have boldly eliminated what I saw as the most problematic bits and have rearranged some of the remaining text. I think this is an improvement. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:39, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
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The title of this article is inherently POV. Perhaps a name change is in order? Or it can be put under a single article, "US imperialism", which could debate the term, not present it as a POV history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Willowx ( talk • contribs) 17 July 2005
That is not "fact"-- it is POV. The title of this article is fundamentally POV, since the debate would be WHETHER the US was or was not imperial. This article should be merged in Imperialism or deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.184.80.132 ( talk • contribs)
The US was imperialist, all that is arguable is that it still is. It is a fact that it was imperialist however. It was in a situation similar to Russia where its empire was on its borders not in far off lands. I didn't write this too well though hopefully you can understand what I mean and impliment it beter. -- Josquius 16:52, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
CIA support for the overthrow of Allende in Chile is confirmed. Here is a link to the primary source documents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alex S ( talk • contribs)
Uh, no it doesn't. All this confirms is that the US was trying to prevent Allende from coming to power, which is not disputed. Show me the sources where it shows CIA agents giving instructions to the Chilean military on how and when to make the coup. —Preceding unsigned comment added by J.J. ( talk • contribs)
As Im sure the CIA have never tried anything simliar to it. Let me just call my friend at the Agency and Im sure how glad he would be to let me have a copy of the "How to make a Coup D´Etat in 10 steps and letting the whole world know about it". LtDoc 17:11, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
Since this page was ginormous, I moved most of it into an archive. I hope to be expanding several sections of the page soon (don't worry, no more on Indian Wars), so I'm sure that we're going to end up needing some space on the talkpage =). -- Alex S 05:49, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I am a professional editor and technical writer in the oil and gas industry and my comments are focused solely in the role of editor.
There is much in this article that is verifiable fact. However, much of this article is stated in POV terminology and should be restated in NPOV term. Any sentence or phrase that includes “some believe…”, “some would argue…”, or “some claim…” is de facto POV and weakens the entire article. These need to be edited such that they state verifiable fact or cite a direct reference to the source of the opinion quoted (as is done for opinions cited to Mark Twain). If there is no citable, verifiable source, then the sentences or phrases are, by definition, POV comments and should be deleted. This is specifically discussed in the Wikipedia policy titled “Avoid weasel words”.
I also recommend re-phrasing, deleting, or citing sources for views ascribed to historical figures. An example of this can be found in the section on the Louisiana Purchase, in the second paragraph, where the phrase “…Jefferson felt that…” appears. Without a citation as to a source for this (for example, a reference to a published work containing writings by Jefferson where he states why he did something), this is speculation and does not seem to meet Wikipedia’s verifiability policy.
Thank you for your time. --PW July 8, 2005 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.236.0.61 ( talk • contribs)
For refrence here is a copy of the deleted list:
The following is a list of incidents involving the United States which some suspect as having hidden or overt imperialist motivations:
Posted by: —Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonP ( talk • contribs)
I'm restoring some of my past comments on this page, seeing how some of the same confusions keep popping up. 172 07:05, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Ugh. More back and forward normative debates. More moral judgments and catch-phrase throwing. This might as well be Hannity and Colmes on Fox News. While AlexS has been doing some serious work, this article isn't going to work out on Wiki. It's just going to become more of a breeding ground for partisan trolling and posturing. On one hand, you'll have a forum for Anti-Americanism, and, on the other, you'll have to deal with J.J.'s personal essays and rationalizations. The only way to create an atmosphere conductive to some real historical writing on the subject is to redirect it to a new article on the diplomatic and military history of the United States. If anyone wants to do so, I can recommend scores of sources with ISBN numbers. I can also provide links to articles online if users want to get the new article done fairly quickly. 172 01:53, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The title is fine (not my choice for an article entry, though), but I understand why some users are suspicious. When familiar only with the popular usage of "imperialism," general readers and students often use this term without knowing what it means. They assume that it is a pejorative term.
However, in diplomatic and military history, "imperialism" is a standard, value-neutral term. It merely refers to influence by nations or peoples over weaker nations or peoples. Dating from antiquity, imperialism has taken many forms. Thus, general readers often conflate imperialism and colonialism, which is properly used in a more restrictive sense.
Colonialism entails formal political control involving territorial annexation. Imperialism can be exercised formally or informally, directly or indirectly, politically or economically. One can say that colonialism is a form of imperialism, but not vice versa.
Having observed so many ridiculous, protracted edit wars stemming from the failure to understand standard, encyclopedic definitions, I would not have created this article. Given the likelihood of conflicts and misunderstanding on Wiki, a broader focus on the Military and diplomatic history of the United States, IMHO, would have worked out better. But you already have too much work here to change the title. Without a substantial rewrite, no other title is appropriate. While the title is going to raise eyebrows occasionally, it is not a violation of NPOV policies so long as the article stays on focus. 172 11:37, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I haven't added any content to this article (other than removing some irrelevant tangents). Nor was this my choice for an article. If users don't know the definition of the term, you can edit the article and add it to the intro. A word may be widely confused, but it's fine so long as this article uses properly. 172 03:08, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Umm...If you are using a term that is likely to be misunderstood by a large segment of the reading population, it is your responsibility to make its meaning clear. Wikipedia is not a specialized social-sciences encyclopedia. In case you haven't looked, the current contents of the Imperialism article (which this article rightly links to) begins with:
That being said, my major issue with this article is the use of "some" and "others" (as in, "Some argue that this means by which the United States expanded and asserted its authority were classic examples of imperialism; others disagree.") Me and my cat could argue something, and that would be "some". You need verifiable sources of information. Of course, this is an issue with many articles, but it's particularly important to correct it here if there is any hope of this article being anything worthwhile. - Rholton 00:42, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
Even though it might be so that some (many?) people are misinformed with regard to the exact meaning(s) of 'imperialism', the word does best describe the totality of many US foreign policies in especially the late 19th century. Above-mentioned examples such as 'colonialism' and 'hegemony' do not adequately cover the whole situation: especially the projected special status of US traders in Japan and the forcing through of the Chinese Open Door-system cannot be expressed together with the above-mentioned words, and clearly result from imperialist tendencies. (Please note that I believe the page on Imperialism should be modified slightly; see the discussion page of that article for my remarks.)
Wikipedia should use the correct terminology, and if this terminology is somewhat hazy through popular usage, we should redirect readers to Wikipedia's own definition as soon as the possibility presents itself, and stick to that definition except where the specific usage in an article might deviate somewhat. This is why I'm not too happy with having an explanation about the usage of the term 'imperialiasm' in this article, as this only adds to the confusion.
On the whole I do not believe this article to be NPOV, though I too believe the usage of 'some' and 'others' in this article to be somewhat unspecified. Discussion on modern imperialism will always provoke some bad sentiment, as this concept is much less clearly defined than 19th century imperialism; cultural imperialism in particular has few hard definitions. Before fighting over what does and what does not comprise modern American imperialism, a workable definition of modern imperialism should be found, and it should be made clear when foreign policies and even extranational intervention becomes 'imperialist'.--
Santetjan 7 July 2005 18:34 (UTC)
I find that surprising. Or are those "Americans" including the Native Americans? Does anyone have a good source for 1848 population figures? –Hajor 19:33, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. - Splash 01:39, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Portions of an article called American Empire duplicate the subject of this article. The rest of the article is about a rhetorical device and should not be merged. - Acjelen 16:40, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me how I'm supposed to cite an article in a college paper? Thanks. Karatloz 19:34, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand why there is a debate. Just combine the two articles (under the same names) and it's all well and good. - web alias zeppelincheetah
"After the Louisiana Purchase, Thomas Jefferson signed the Louisiana Government Bill, which denied the new United States territory the right to self-government. Instead, it was to be ruled by military officials under direct orders from the capitol. Since most of the population of the territory consisted of non-whites and Catholics, Jefferson felt that the government should suspend its right to self-government until enough white settlers moved west to command a majority."
Can we get some actual cites and evidence for this? Otherwise, it doesn't seem very NPOV
--ViperDaim 64.154.26.251 18:27, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Stating that the current cultural imperialism is "unintentional" and "a side effect of capitalism" and that "government has no role on the industries" of culture is extreme POV. LtDoc 16:08, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I added these quotes to wikipedia and then added an external link to this page.
“…in Britain, empire was justified as a benevolent "white man's burden." And in the United States, empire does not even exist; "we" are merely protecting the causes of freedom, democracy, and justice worldwide.”
--The Editors, "After the attacks…the war on terrorism", Monthly Review, 53, 6, Nov., 2001. P 7
The term “imperialism”...overuse and...abuse is making it nearly meaningless as an analytical concept. Thorton concluded that “imperialism” is “more often the name of the emotion that reacts to a series of events than a definition of the events themselves….Colonization finds analysts and analogies, imperialism must contend with crusaders for and against.” --“Benevolent Assimilation” The American Conquest of the Philippines, 1899-1903; Stuart Creighton Miller Travb
Jingoist Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.
I have been monitoring this entry for about 2 weeks. I am disappointed at the extreme Jingoists who frequent this entry. Every day someone else tries to vandilize this site.
There has never been a "Vote for Deletion" about America being the "beacon of freedom" to the world. None of these jingotists would argue that this is POV.
Since jingotists cannot argue the history of American imperialism, they characteristically attack the source, trying to other like minded jingoists delete the site.
Pathetic, irrational behavior you should be ashamed. Travb 20:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
213.141.89.53 23:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
User 24.60.161.63 deleted the cartoon showing uncle sam balancing all his new imperialist treasures. User 24.60.161.63 deleted it stating that it was a "pointless" cartoon. I reverted this cartoon back--can User 24.60.161.63 explain why he feels that this cartoon is pointless? Travb 16:39, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
In the first sentence of the introduction we read that the United States was initially "of little international import." Little import compared to WHAT?
Later the introduction describes the 13 colonies as "small." Small compared to WHAT? To what it became later? Too obvious to mention. Small compared to European states? Untrue. The remainder of the introduction makes analogies rather than saying what the article is about.
The first dates we encounter in the article itself are the 1960s and 1970s. The historiography is discussed before the history, and then we are told truisms and informed that they are truisms. Fortunately, the rest of the article is better than the terrible start while most of it still manages to be simply bad with lapses into the terrible. I tried to fix American exceptionalism but now I have less time, so I'm just tagging this and hoping someone else will do a repair. This article shouldn't be deleted. It should be improved. Flying Jazz 04:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The 13 american colonies barely survived the war for independence. I would like to know if it means area or power. If area, then not technically small. If by power, then small in all sences of the word. On comparison with a former empire like spain. Not on par with Britain despite victory. Surviving an invasion is not a sign of a superpower. SO yes, small.
I am having a hard time figuring out why this page is here. Most of the topics listed here belong in other articles. Incidents involving the Indian Wars and U.S. westward expansion belong in Manifest Destiny. Incidents involving U.S. policy in the Americas belong in the Monroe Doctrine. Current issues belong in Foreign relations of the United States. This page seems merely to be a place for persons with anti-american views to express themselves. I think this article should be dismantled and the information moved to other appropriate articles. Please discuss.
Excuse me, but isn't it up to people to judge the value of the word imperialism? Not you. Using a word like imperialism, does not make it POV. I see imperialism as a bad thing, I think the US consistently have continued in it for the last 150-200 years or so, but does that mean that that everyone sees it that way? Im sure some ultra conservative jiongist thinks its awesome to invade countries. The simple fact is, the US have had a consistent jiongistic/imperialistic foreign policy for a long time. Specific periods might be excluded. It has expanded it's territory or CONTROLLED territory if you will overseas. Question is in my mind what is expansion? Military bases? If so, then this article is way to weak. If it's military bases and puppet regimes, then WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to weak article. And so on.... If you want to argue the issue I'd be happy to provide incitement.
213.141.89.53 23:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
213.141.89.53 23:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I went through and basically copyedited the entire article ( overall diff). There remains a great deal of work to be done before the NPOV tag can come off, but I hope my edits will be viewed as a step (or giant leap!) in the right direction... Tom e r talk 10:06, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Forgive my provocative comment... Is United States an adjective?
I felt if this article was going to work, it needed a definition of imperialism at the beginning, and to differentiate the different schools of thought about Americas history and place in the world today in America. Inspired by Miller, I added:
Unfortunatly, in every major overhaul, some sentences and even paragraphs will need to be rewritten or deleted. I am sorry if my actions frustrates some of my fellow wikipedians. To avoid a revert war, I will attempt to explain why I am deleting these sentences, and work on a concensus to make this article more encyclopedic.
The following are some of the sentences I have temporarily deleted from the article, and why I feel they should be temporarily deleted and rewritten:
Others argue that there is a difference between expansionism and imperialism. They argue that the American expansion driven by settlers and a need for more land was very different from European imperialism that was primarily a search for raw materials and new markets, with colonization and settlement only an occasional side effect.
"Others" is a weasel word. Who exactly? Please name a historian who feels this way, and please quote him or paraphrase his thoughts. This paragraph becomes a little redundant with Miller's three schools of thought. The three schools of thought already discuss the viewpoints, reasoning, and justifications that Americans use.
And indeed almost every nation on earth is occupied by invaders who wrested territory from previous inhabitants, so the notion that the US began its existence through the conquest of native tribes can be called a truism, since the conquest of one population by another and subsequent change of government/sovereignty is more often than not the very definition of a new country. Otherwise, it must be noted that the United States is no more "imperialistic" on sole account of its relationship to native peoples than such nations as Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia, etc. Therefore, many would argue that while acts of conquest are generally reprehensible, acts of "imperialism" require a more specific and systematic method of exploitation (oppressive and non-mutually-beneficial in nature) and suzerainty over other nations, as opposed to mere territorial acquisition, an argument which likely makes no difference to the people actually losing their sovereignty.
This paragraph is not well written in its current form.
First portion of the paragraph
And indeed almost every nation on earth is occupied by invaders who wrested territory from previous inhabitants, so the notion that the US began its existence through the conquest of native tribes can be called a truism
followed, ironically by another truism:
since the conquest of one population by another and subsequent change of government/sovereignty is more often than not the very definition of a new country.
"more often than not" is not encyclopedic.
Like the other paragraph, this paragraph becomes a little redundant with Miller's three schools of thought, which is much better written and clearer. The three schools of thought already discuss the viewpoints, reasoning, and justifications that Americans use. The author of this difficult to read paragraph would probably fall in the first category: "patriotic American" apologist.
What exactly is this person attempting to say? I am not quite sure, except he/she is trying to minimize and justify America's actions.
almost every nation on earth is occupied by invaders who wrested territory from previous inhabitants
i.e. Since every country does it, America's territoral expansion is normal. This is a red herring falacy of logic, common with apologists. A red herring falacy of logic is when someone justifies the actions of a person by highlighting the crimes of someone else.
This is not encyclopedic, and maybe an example would explain why:
If I were descibing the attrocities of the French in Algeria on a wikipedia article on this war, would I cite Russian attrocities in Afghanistan in this article?
No.
Why?
Because I am talking about French actions in Algeria. What happened in Afghanistan is irrelevant to the discussion. Similarly, whether "Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia" is imperialistic is irrelevant to this wikiarticle. This article is not discussing "Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia". It is discussing America.
Second portion of paragraph
Therefore, many would argue that while acts of conquest are generally reprehensible, acts of "imperialism" require a more specific and systematic method of exploitation (oppressive and non-mutually-beneficial in nature) and suzerainty over other nations, as opposed to mere territorial acquisition, an argument which likely makes no difference to the people actually losing their sovereignty.
"suzerainty" --is a spelling error, I don't know what this is supposed to be.
This sentence appears tacked on to the other sentence, with no smooth transition.
The first portion justifies America's territorial expansion, stating that America is no different than other countries.
The second portion begins with a weasel phrase: "many would argue" and then states to be imperialistic, a country must be more oppresive and less helpful to the natives. This has nothing to do with the first portion of the paragraph.
Further, what authority is the author citing? Again, this sentence reaffirms Miller and Thortons argument that the word "Imperialism" cannot be used as a historical term. Travb 09:45, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
"However, the Louisiana Government Bill that followed it, although less well-known, is often cited as an early instance of heavy-handedness and hypocrisy in the early United States."
Who cited it? This is POV "heavy-handedness and hypocrisy" unless you cite and quote who said it (preferably a historian). Travb 09:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
"Some would argue that the actual owners of the bulk of land was neither France nor the United States but rather the Native Americans who had resided on it for centuries and who were not consulted about this transaction. Others would reply that this would be to apply a 20th century viewpoint to 19th century circumstances, and to assume a concept of ownership of land not actually held by Native Americans, who nevertheless may be entitled to the full benefits of such a concept regardless of their belief systems."
Other weasel phrases: "Some would argue", "Others would reply" Who says this?
This sentence is difficult to understand: "and to assume a concept of ownership of land not actually held by Native Americans, who nevertheless may be entitled to the full benefits of such a concept regardless of their belief systems"
I have no clue what the author is trying to say. Travb 09:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Since most of the population of the territory consisted of non-whites and Catholics, Jefferson felt that the government should suspend its right to self-government until enough white settlers moved west to command a majority. Modern-day critics of this choice point out the irony in the fact that Jefferson, who had decried British denial of American self rule in the Declaration of Independence, was now issuing the orders to deny self-rule in an American territory, issuing commands from half-way across the continent.
Jefferson felt that the government should suspend its right to self-government until enough white settlers moved west to command a majority.
I always cringe when anyone writes how someone felt, especially with no citied source. What did Jefferson say? Why not quote him, or add a footnote with a quote that proves that he felt this way.
Modern-day critics of this choice point out the irony in the fact that Jefferson...
Which "modern day critics"? Travb 10:03, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The Mexican-American War from 1846 to 1848 is often viewed as motivated by American imperialism. In 1846, President James K. Polk sent soldiers to the disputed zone between Mexico and the newly annexed Republic of Texas in what most historians describe as a provocation for war.
"often viewed" By who? I seriously doubt a majority of Americans view the Mexican-American War as American imperialism.
"in what most historians describe as a provocation for war."
Another sentence that makes me cringe--"most historians"
Why not instead write cite one prominent historian and replace "most" with "many". Travb 10:07, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Today, there is some question over the nature of the Mexican-American war. Most claim that it was aggressive in nature, prompted by Manifest Destiny. Among these, some historians claim that it was simply a grab for more territory, whereas others see it as part of a concerted expansionist movement, reminiscent of imperialism.
Who is questioning this? Which historians? Who are most of these people that claim the Mexican war was agressive? Historians? Americans? If this author is talking Americans, this sentence is incorrect, I have been to the Alamo and I see how Americans look upon this portion of history with pride. The Alamo museum mirrors this feeling, emphasing how ruthless the Mexican government was.
Many weasel phrases in this paragraph.... Travb 10:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The population was divided between those that saw the economic and strategic benefits of colonies and those that felt it was countrary to America's founding ideology.
This is a misleading sentence. The majority of Americans were jingoistic and supportive of this war. When the Maine sunk there was national outrage. This imaginary division of the population also ignores the other reason that was peddled by the elite for the Spanish-American war: the freedom of these colonies from Spanish control and for humanitarian reasons. The news had several articles talking about Weyler's attrocities in Cuba. It was the same tired "beacon of freedom and democracy" justification. Travb 10:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Many argue, however, that this situation amounted to the United States having a de facto empire in the Americas throughout this period.
Many would argue, however, that cultural and economic imperialism of far greater import.
Many of these interventions have been denounced by some as imperialist.
Many argue that this serves to inculcate populations with American values, while at the same time destroying indigenous cultures.
who? more weasel words... Travb 10:41, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
than of any insidious U.S. effort to spread its culture abroad, although this expansion is often condemned as such.
"insidous" is POV, condemned by who? Travb 10:55, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Should we make a "ME" list? :P I'm confused though. Who exactly could verify that word? Do I need a PH.D to make it a valid statement? I agree with what you are saying... but.. I'm just saying...
I'm sure we could find at least 5000 people who would agree with that statement, POV as it is. So where does that leave us?
213.141.89.53 23:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
The major weakness of this article is its title ( History of United States Imperialism). That is why I added the large section from Miller about "Is the United States Imperialistic?" No other article needs to explain its title in 5 plus paragraphs like this one.
I close with Miller and Thorton's point:
"Miller concludes that the term "imperialism" recent overuse and abuse makes it nearly meaningless as an analytical concept. Historian Archibald Paton Thorton wrote that "imperialism is more often the name of the emotion that reacts to a series of events than a definition of the events themselves. Where Colonization finds analysts and analogies, imperialism must contend with crusaders for and against."
This article is a lightning rod of criticism because of the "crusaders for and against", making it "nearly meaningless as an analytical concept". I suggest renaming the title to a less POV title, and moving the article, which will cause less people to attack the article.
Maybe the name: Histoy of United States foreign interventions? Travb 22:47, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
What exactly is the POV about the title. Its a fact that United States made the Philippenes, and Guam colonies. Later on we confronted the British and Germans over Samoa. Its a fact that we annexed Hawaii. It is a fact that we bought Alaska. That is all overseas expansion? The problem is the content. This article would better be suited with the title History of American Imperialism.
74.137.230.39 17:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
It can't possibly be neutral, just look at the section about "evil capitalism." It's no more objective than the communist manifesto. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by KongminRegent ( talk • contribs) .
Go ahead. Do it. Kevin Myers, Travb, and myself all agree so do it. WAS 4.250 01:26, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've removed this paragraph:
One paragraph neutrally proposing the thesis of cultural imperialism followed by two refuting it fails NPOV. I started to add some defense of the idea that cultural imperialism is something to be prevented, but decided that would make the subsection far too long. Better to leave the debate for the main cultural imperialism article. Kalkin
For anyone interested, here is some of the info that I have compiled on my blog which may be incorporated in this article or one of the others in the American empire section:
The American Empire (the bottom section quoting Miller is already part of American empire (term). Travb 04:14, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Who wrote "It is also widely believed that the US was behind the Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002." What sources are you getting your info from? T.V. talk shows? Please realize that when you state unsubstanciated info like that you cause harm to the people who are really trying to improve relations. I strongly believe that unsubstantiated claims like that are an unethical, low-blow used to distort reality. Please desist! unless you have the facts. Wikipedia is a powerful learning/teaching tool. Don't make it a cheap political squak box.
I have read the same thing in many British national newspapers including The Times and The Telegraph. Both report on global feelings that the Bush administrantion was behind the coup. CNN online also reported the same feelings.
James Quinn 20 Sept 2006, sorry, dont know my IP. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
88.111.213.247 (
talk •
contribs)
I started trying to get this article into shape, but it's probably hopeless. I added the POV warning. Why is this article even here? -- Cultural Freedom talk 2006-06-28 22:13 (UTC)
I just read the article through again, very carefully. I'll try to make changes that square to some degree with the objections raised here. (Though, yes, leaving the tag up, with a better explanation, and leaving the article alone, might be the best strategy. I may go back to my decision to adopt that strategy.) First, one important point: The article is called "History of United States overseas expansion," not "History of United States overseas expansionism." I was trying to make the article square with its title. -- Cultural Freedom talk 2006-06-29 07:16 (UTC)
Old edit:
New edit:
Thanks for your continued contributions User: Cultural Freedom.
I want to talk about a particular policy page. I wish they would change the name of this page, because it has a negtive conentation: Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words.
I will add a {{fact}} tag to this statment, lets give someone a week to respond, then lets delete the paragraph, and move the link to the see also section. I never did like that section much anyway--it seems off topic here.
The last edit has weasel words, and it is also more ackward. Read both sentences a couple of times, the new one and the old one, and see which one is more awkward.
Signed: Travb ( talk) 15:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I suspect that in the cultural imperialism article a cite could very easily be found for someone alleging the U.S. to be culturally imperialist. Kalkin 00:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Seems to me that Americans are in the minority. Really? maybe you edit other pages then I do. There is this cultural wikiarticle that tackles this, and states that the majority are American, but I read it months ago. So there is probably no way I can find this--but I will try. Travb ( talk) 12:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The article is almost entirely written from an anti-American standpoint; all aspects of US growth are treated as the result of unsavory US actions, as opposed to the result of wars, for which, in some cases, other countries were at least partly responsible. Moreover, despite the article's title, the article is about a more controversial topic: expansionism, not expansion.
The {{POV-because}} was deleted, so I moved all the info here. Travb ( talk) 04:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
The article is almost entirely written from an anti-American standpoint; all aspects of US growth are treated as the result of unsavory US actions, as opposed to the result of wars, for which, in some cases, other countries were at least partly responsible. Moreover, despite the article's title, the article is about a more controversial topic: expansionism, not expansion.
-Travb- Thanks for retaining the above information. I've added a direct link to this new section. I was going to delete the section you added, but we can just leave it for posterity! (Or you can delete it yourself; I didn't want to do anything you might feel was too "aggressive.") -- Cultural Freedom 2006-07-21 14:47 (UTC)
Not sure I grasp what you're trying to say, sorry. One thing I can say that might help: "imperialism" is simply incorrect when describing the U.S. That doesn't mean the U.S. hasn't made highly questionable foreign policy choices. But that's different. I'm not sure people here are "sensitive" in any incorrect way. They're just trying to create accurate articles. -- Cultural Freedom 2006-07-28 8:26 (UTC)
Cultural Freedom, I was perhaps a bit verbose in my last comment. What I'm saying is illustrated by Zleitzen's Cuba example. It's totally hypocritical to deny imperialistic intentions when the US exerts its influence on others for its own interest. You said using the word "imperialism" is wrong but offer no reasoning or evidence of why it is wrong. It is no more POV to label the US as "imperialists" than to label some groups "terrorists". Right after 9-11, General Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr. said in an interview that the terrorists for one side are the freedom fighters for the other. Accuracy can be relative to who you are talking to. Pseudotriton 04:07, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Are there any lingering POV issues that need to be discussed? Otherwise I will remove the POV tag. -- Swift 20:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Apparently, nearly five months after Swift's message just above, there are no lingering POV issues that justify leaving the tag up. That being the case, I'm taking it down. Buck Mulligan 05:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
There is an awful lot of Imperialism theory being employed here to explain the expansion of the U.S. THe overseas expansion of the U.S. boils down to two events: acquisition of colonies from the Spanish-American War, and the incorporation of Hawaii at the request of a foreign leader. If someone wants to diatribe about american imperialist adventures that did not result in the expansion of teh U.S. I am sure there is anotehr article devoted to it. Perhaps america as empire? Mrdthree 14:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Today (August 13th) the following was deleted from this page, this information is not terribly well researched, so I am not going to fight for its continued inclusion in the article:
==Asia==
While American intervention had begun earlier with Matthew Perry forcibly opening Japan to the West with the Convention of Kanagawa in 1854, this period saw the United States expand its presence in Asia. The U.S. pushed through the Open Door Policy that guaranteed equal economic access to China. It also vigorously acquired small islands in the Pacific, mostly to be used as coaling stations.
Throughout the later half of the 19th century, China was divided into "spheres of influence"-areas to which a foreign power ( Austria, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, and Russia) were given exclusive trading rights or even the territory itself as the result of treaties. The United States, having recently gained the Philippines in the Spanish-American War and thereby becoming a player in East Asia, felt impeded by these "spheres of influence". In an effort to equalize trade, John Hay, Secretary of State at the time (under William McKinley), sent letters to European leaders suggesting an "open door" policy in China, one that would grant equivalent trading rights to all powers inside the spheres of influence. The proposal was gently rejected. Following the Boxer Rebellion, John Hay called again for an expanded "open door" policy effective throughout China, not just within "spheres of influence". The United States and the European powers agreed to preserve Chinese independence and government.
==After World War II==
After helping defeat Nazi Germany, the United States occupied the southern portion of the Western sector of Germany (what later became West Germany) for ten years (1945 to 1955). More intense was the occupation of Japan from 1945 to 1951, during which time the US occupation force, led by General Douglas MacArthur staged a dramatic restructuring of Japanese society in order to prevent the nation from re-emerging as a military threat. (See also Japanese nationalism.) Although the occupation officially ended in the 1950's, large numbers of American troops remain today in bases in both countries. The United States also gained control of what are today the Northern Mariana Islands, Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, and Palau.
During this period, the United States actively intervened in the politics of many nations, with the purpose of curbing the expansion of the influence of the Soviet Union. Many of the post-war actions were implemented as the result of Cold War policy and anti-Communist sentiment, which were the basis of much of United States foreign policy.
==Europe==
During the 1960s and 1970s it became fashionable to view the Soviet Empire in eastern Europe as comparable to the American domination of western Europe. It was frequently argued that, through economic and military pressure, the United States pursued hegemony just as aggressively as the Soviet Union. The post-revisionist school, which, since the fall of the USSR, has come to dominate the study of Cold War history, has rejected this view, arguing that the full extent of Soviet aggression has become apparent as a result of the opening of the Kremlin's archives. (See historiography of the Cold War.)
==Middle East==
After World War Two, with the continued rise in the importance of oil to the world economy, the United States increased its interest in intervention in the Middle East. While it had no formal colonies, it had sufficient influence in several countries that they are sometimes viewed as client states; these include Israel, Iran under the Shah, and various Gulf states. Since 2001, and the September 11 attacks, the U.S. has had a large number of troops in Afghanistan. Since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, it has had an even larger number in Iraq. At least some U.S. war planners were interested in U.S. military domination of the oil-rich Gulf region, the world's top supply of this most important resource, according to U.S. General Jay Garner, who was in charge of planning and administering post-war reconstruction in Iraq, explaining that the U.S. occupation of Iraq was comparable to the Philippine model: "Look back on the Philippines around the turn of the 20th century: they were a coaling station for the navy, and that allowed us to keep a great presence in the Pacific. That's what Iraq is for the next few decades: our coaling station that gives us great presence in the Middle East". (Interview on National Journal 2004, archived http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=5819&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported, http://www.alternet.org/story/17923/ )
The U.S. denies any intention to maintain long-term control of these countries; this is disputed by many, though very few allege that the U.S. intends actual annexation. However, at least some U.S. war planners are interested in long term bases in Iraq to project American power to the Middle East. "One of the most important things we can do right now is start getting basing rights with (the Iraqi authorities)", "I hope they're there a long time....And I think we'll have basing rights in the north and basing rights in the south ... we'd want to keep at least a brigade", Garner added (Interview on National Journal 2004, archived http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=5819&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported, http://www.alternet.org/story/17923/ ) Also, a report of the U.S. House of Representatives accompanying emergency spending legislation for U.S. military bases in Iraq stated that the money allocated was "of a magnitude normally associated with permanent bases". (BBC News, March 30, 2006, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4834032.stm )
==Coups==
Declassified British Cabinet papers, published in The Guardian in 1994, indicate the possibility that the CIA and MI6 both provided backing for the 1963 military coup of Iraqi Colonel Abdul Salam Arif which overthrew Brigadier General Abdul Karim Qassim. Qassim had attempted to nationalize the Iraq Petroleum Company, of which U.S. companies were major shareholders, and in order to assert Iraqi rights to the territory of Kuwait. Following the coup, the new Iraqi government abandoned both of these policies disapproved of by the governments of both the U.S. and the United Kingdom. (See also History of Iraq.) After the government of Rahman Arif took power, the U.S. again backed a coup in Iraq, bringing the Baath Party to power in 1968, [1] with Saddam Hussein eventually taking the helm. Similar tactics were used by the United States in Iran in 1953 to topple the democractially-elected Moussadegh government and to install the Shah dictatorship, see Operation Ajax, and in Chile in 1973 to install General Pinochet after the overthrow of the democratically-elected government of Dr. Salvadore Allende, see Chilean coup of 1973. In these cases U.S. interest lay in maintaining control over Iran's oil and Chile's copper. It is also widely believed that the U.S. was behind the Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002 to topple the democratically-elected government of President Hugo Chávez. citation needed
==Cultural imperialism==
{{main|Cultural imperialism}} Since the end of the Second World War the United States has been dominant in most cultural industries. US movies, television, food, and music are popular throughout the world. Thus the US has often been accused of cultural imperialism, a form of expansion overseas certainly more subtle than military conquest but perhaps with similar problems.{{fact}}
Signed: Travb ( talk) 23:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Text is already incorporated, this proposal has already been made above. Mrdthree 13:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
A wikiuser added a map to this page (first one). Why not add the other pictures in the group?
The maps were once on American Empire but first one map (Coalition map), and then the other two were removed for the American Empire page.
Reason: Talk:American_Empire#American_Empire_Map.
If this map stays, I think a great map would be the map of the Spanish empire, before the Spanish American War, and the U.S. and possessions at the turn of the 20th Century. Basically this map would show that America seized/bought all of the empire of Spain in the Western Hempisphere.
Another user brought up the point on the American_Empire page that the colonies of Spain made Spain an empire but when the US aquired them, that didn't make the US an empire? What changed? Travb ( talk) 06:26, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
The following text was flagged {{fact}}, then removed today. [4]
Signed:
Travb (
talk) 15:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
The following text was flagged {{fact}}, then removed today.
Best wishes, Travb ( talk) 17:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Being that History of United States imperialism currently redirects here, it is extremely disappointing that there is no mention of the new imperial grand strategy, popularised by John Ikenberry and Noam Chomsky. Its absence is conspicuous yet this page may already be too confused to deal with such an addition. On the other hand, I don't really know enough about it to start a new page for it. -- abfackeln 02:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and redirected the article here. It is a new article, with not much information. Travb ( talk) 18:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
The article is named 'US Overseas Expansion' and should relate only to the literal territorial expansion of the US overseas. Since everyone seems to think that this article is about American 'imperialism'(however you want to define that word)'overseas'(as if to imply the US has no right to exist where it does), I suggest that we follow the above recommendation and merge the article immediately. I am not sure how to begin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.97.15 ( talk • contribs)
Declaring overseas interventions of the united states as efforts at expanding the territorial holdings of the United States is editorializing. The fact of overseas expansion as documented in the introduction of this article can be confirmed. The fact fo overseas interventions can be confirmed. The argument that overseas interventions constitute efforts at expansion is opinion. So I started a new page Overseas interventions of the United States. Mrdthree 13:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I do not really understand the purpose of this article. Is is supposed to be about an American Empire? There is already such an article. Is it supposed to be about Opposition to United States foreign policy? There is already such an article. It is supposed to be a List of United States military history events? There is already such an article
The "Background" section talks abourt the motivations for US colonialism before WWII. On the other hand, the section on "Overseas interventions", mostly after WWII, seems to imply that all of these interventions are examples of "overseas expansion". This is OR conclusions, most of these did not lead to any expansion of US territory or possessions. Therefore, I propose that that the "Background" section should be moved to the American Empire article. If there are any interventions not listed in List of United States military history events, they should be moved there. If there is any criticisms not in Opposition to United States foreign policy, they should be moved there. Thoughts? Ultramarine 13:56, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
The purpose is simple, it identifies American expansion into foreign territories with imperialistic intent. This is a small subset of the List of United States military history events. This is a historical overview of events that the American Empire took part in, not an article on the Empire itself. It in no way endorses Opposition to United States foreign policy, it just points out some of the actions in which foreign policy has taken form. The article is substantially different from those three articles you mentioned. The existence of an 'American Empire' is disputed, and discussed in a modern context on that page, yet this history of imperialistic behaviour is undisputed and therefore should be kept separate. Therefore, the background section should stay. The military interventions listed serve as examples to this point, so they should stay. If it is critical of US foreign policy, it shouldn't be, as this would violate NPOV. The correct way to deal with criticisms would be to point them out and rework them into NPOV, perhaps by redirecting or deleting them but preferably by rewording them. Oh, and I didn't undo your wholesale redirect of this article, but really you should not have done that - this page hasn't survived a deletion review just to get redirected to a different topic. Nazlfrag 06:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
The tag is on a cite following this sentence: "After the government of Rahman Arif took power, the U.S. again backed a coup in Iraq, bringing the Baath Party to power in 1968," The cited source says:
[...] In Cairo, Damascus, Tehran and Baghdad, American agents marshaled opponents of the Iraqi regime. Washington set up a base of operations in Kuwait, intercepting Iraqi communications and radioing orders to rebels. The United States armed Kurdish insurgents. The C.I.A.'s Health Alteration Committee, as it was tactfully called, sent Kassem a monogrammed, poisoned handkerchief, though the potentially lethal gift either failed to work or never reached its victim.
Then, on Feb. 8, 1963, the conspirators staged a coup in Baghdad. For a time the government held out, but eventually Kassem gave up, and after a swift trial was shot; his body was later shown on Baghdad television. Washington immediately befriended the successor regime. Almost certainly a gain for our side, Robert Komer, a National Security Council aide, wrote to Kennedy the day of the takeover.
As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and anti-Communist Baath Party, in 1963 still a relatively small political faction influential in the Iraqi Army. According to the former Baathist leader Hani Fkaiki, among party members colluding with the C.I.A. in 1962 and 1963 was Saddam Hussein, then a 25-year-old who had fled to Cairo after taking part in a failed assassination of Kassem in 1958.
As I read that, "American agents" marshaled opponents of the Iraqi regime, then those agents and others ("the conspirators") staged a coup. Later, speaking of the coup, the author says, "As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and anti-Communist Baath Party, [...]". Perhaps the text could stand a bit of rewording, but I think that the cited source does support what the text asserts. The cited source is a bit soft, though -- a NYT Op-Ed piece requoted on a blog. -- Boracay Bill 23:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Unregistered user 203.218.71.185 had changed the section heading Annexation of Hawaii to read Invasion of Hawaii, providing as an edit summary: "American always says China invaded Tibet, why not saying USA invaded Hawaii?". User:Ultramarine reverted that with the edit summary: "not a military invasion". 203.218.71.185 re-reverted that without an edit summary, and I re-re-reverted that reversion with an edit summary pointing to this talk page discussion.
IMHO, conducting guerilla warfare is not a good way to resolve ideological differences; especially not within wikipedia. I won't take the trouble to search Wikipedia guidelines about this just now, but I feel confident that the guidelines would bear me out.
I suggest that the Tibet/China questions are better discussed in Talk:South Tibet, Talk:Sino-Indian_War, or Talk:Tibet. -- Boracay Bill 12:50, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I reject the idea to retitle this article as listed above. A better title may be possible but this is not it. A previous user finds it more objective to retitle this article american overseas empire. However I find this to be editorializing in favor of the 'american empire' notion that has become popular since 9-11. In titling the section American Empire assumptions about the nature of the current governance and administration of regions are being made that rely on ideological definitions of imperialism. Mrdthree 03:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
A map is being added to this article entitled the "American Empire". I have reverted it again [6] because as per previous discussions on this page, "American Empire" is not equal to "Overseas expansion of the United States" (that is why two separate articles exist). Furthermore, there is already a map on the page showing the overseas territories. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 01:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the FormerPossessions section and moved its former contents here
US has voluntarily left some of its overseas territories and they have gained independence. Cuba (1902), the Philippines (1946), the Panama Canal Zone (1979/1999), the Federated States of Micronesia (1986), Marshall Islands (1986), and Palau (1994) are examples.
Firstly, the language "US has voluntarily left ... and they have gained independence" is clumsy. It oversimplifies and distorts.
Secondly:
-- Boracay Bill ( talk) 22:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
It's known that Japan was occupied and essentially under American management after that country lost WWII, mostly to the USA. Shouldn't or should this be mentioned in our treatment of "overseas expansion of the USA"? 68.32.48.59 ( talk) 14:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Should the entry for Cuba be shortened? The statement regarding Guantanemo Naval Base better belongs within that article rather than as a statement within what should be a brief statement. -- 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 06:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
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After speaking of the Philippine Organic Act of 1902, bicameral legislature, the Philippine Commission (an appointive body having both U.S. and Filipino members), a popularly elected lower house, the Philippine Autonomy Act (Jones Law) of 1916, and the United States commitment to grant independence to the Philippines, "...as soon as a stable government can be established therein.", the article backed up to 1899 and said, "... the guerrilla fighters soon found that the Americans were not prepared to grant them much more autonomy than Spain had allowed." (, of courthe insurgent Malolos Republic declared war on the U.S. long before Aguinaldo shifted from conventional to guerrilla tactics, of course). There was also a "Thus," which I took as drawing an unwarranted conclusion.
The problematic bits were unsupported (though not completely untrue, despite the biased presentation). I have boldly eliminated what I saw as the most problematic bits and have rearranged some of the remaining text. I think this is an improvement. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:39, 6 January 2011 (UTC)