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Is it an energy crisis or, more rightly, a petroleum crisis ?. Really, the problem with petroleum. -- Mac ( talk) 06:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Technically, of course, you're correct — this article only exists because of supply and demand issues with oil, not all energy. But, since "Oil" and "Energy" are used interchangeably in colloquial speech, we aren't obliged to pick "oil". In fact, since (IMO) it's more commonly referred to as the "Energy crisis" than the "Oil crisis", it should stay there. Just as an aside, I think the reason people call it an "energy" crisis is that the "energy crisis" can be solved while the "oil crisis" can't.-- Loodog ( talk) 21:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Much of this article needs updating to reflect the collapse of oil prices since last summer. Also, I think all the discussion on hypothetical mitigation to curb the price increase (which for the most part did not factor into the actual price drop) should be gutted. TastyCakes ( talk) 00:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Also, the oil price graphs are now almost a year old... TastyCakes ( talk) 16:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is about the price of crude oil (see discussion above, as well as language of entire article). US Gulf Coast Hurricanes affecting gas prices in certain US states (not all of US even) has no place in the lead. Hurricane Katrina affected oil prices world wide. NJGW ( talk) 16:42, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
(undent)"why is this sentence is the intro at all: ..." Funny, that's exactly the point I made just a few lines up... twice (tap tap, is this thing on?)
"Who exactly decided the scope of the article was to include a) only oil" What makes you say someone has made that distinction? Certainly it's not related to us by the title of the article, nor by the lead or body. Seems to me the article needs to be expanded with sections on substitution effect and the like. Take away oil and you need to substitute something in its place, and if you can't then the price of oil goes up. We couldn't substitute a cheaper alternative when the oil got scarce (or we thought it was getting scarce, which ever your POV), so the markets reflected this. Oil is used for energy, therefore this is an energy issue: we need more stuff that can be turned into energy or more ways to turn what we have lots of into energy. We don't have that stuff or those ways so we have an energy crisis (hey, I'm beginning to see how the mitigation section fits in!)
"Who exactly decided the scope of the article was to include b) only long term price increase of oil?" Uh, you want a whole article about how oil went up $25 one day because of bail-out fears and a sinking dollar? Discuss it at 2003 to 2008 world oil market chronology. How about how it goes up and down cyclically every year? Interesting, but how does that fit in? This aricle is about a confluence of real issues, not some temporary spike. I have no idea how that isn't obvious.
"who was it that, despite these strict assumptions/requirements on the article's subject matter renamed the article something that seems to deliberately increase its vagueness?" I guess we're all entitled to our own opinions, but you need to read this talk page before you say you know what's going on. There is consensus above, and only you and banned user Mac had an issue (though others thought your concerns had been answered). Are you bringing up new points now, or do you have the same issues? Personally I think the real problem is we're still in the thick of the story, and we won't know what happened or what to call it until later.
"you [are] only kick[ing] up crap when people started putting in information that's as general as the article's name calls for" What, this muck about the price of gasoline going up regionally and temporarily after a hurricane... you yourself just asked what the hell it's doing in the lead! Make up your mind. I really hope you're not pushing this gasoline/hurricane bit to proove a point.
"Are you also aware that the "energy crisis" in most peoples' minds involved short term price spikes as well as if not more than the more gradual increase over several years?" Source please... JK! But that is nonsense... we're talking (with this hurricane businesss) about the price of gas going up for a week or less, and not even throughout a whole country. I don't think anybody will ever call that an energy crisis, least wise not where you could cite it reasonably.
As has been pointed out many times above by several people, there is no separating petroleum from energy or energy from petroleum. If you want to suggest a new title or a new lead that's fine, but you're making a huge fuss over wanting to mention piddly local less-than-week-long gasoline increases, in the lead no less. If you want an article about that you'll have to start from scratch and put it somewhere else. NJGW ( talk) 01:28, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
"...worries over Iranian nuclear plans in 2006". Shouldn it be "worries over an armed conflict between USA and Iran" ?-- Ezzex ( talk) 16:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
The theory, or perhaps Arab propaganda, that the oil reserves have exceeded their median volume should be included in the article (so called "spike oil").
Some comment about "demand destruction" in the second and third quarter of 2008 should also be included. — [ Unsigned comment added by 132.211.195.34 ( talk • contribs).]
In view of the current (2009) energy and oil consumption, and economic conditions, one has to admit there never was an energy crisis in the 2000s. I suggest this article to be deleted. (September 18) -- Environnement2100 ( talk) 15:19, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Gasoline is only a part of energy. Nowadays, coal is definitely the first source, then oil and gas, then hydraulic, nuclear, renewables, biomass, whatnot. Who says the price of electricty climbed ? who says coal was no longer available ? There never was an energy crisis in the 2000s. Also gasoline always was available - worldwide. If there was a crisis, it was en economic one, please read Financial crisis of 2007–2010-- Environnement2100 ( talk) 18:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Upon request, this article has been proposed for deletion, October 3rd, 2009.-- Environnement2100 ( talk) 09:05, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Now that the mid-2008 oil price hikes to near $150/bbl. have passed and prices plummeted to less than a fourth of its peak, I'm wondering if it's time to change some of the prediction statements to past tense. For instance, a sentence reading, "John Doe, an analyst for XYZ Corp., predicts that oil will hit $200 per barrel by Labor Day," would now read "John Doe, an analyst for XYZ Corp., predicted (emphasis mine) that oil will hit $200 per barrel by Labor Day." Some of the quoted material would now need to be paraphrased to place emphasis on past tense, but that can easily be done. In essence, I think it may be time to revamp sections of this article, as they are now past tense. The sources can remain, as they pertain to valid quotes; it's just that some of the wording may need to be changed. [[ Briguy52748 ( talk) 16:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)]]
I am removing the following sentence, pertaining to three living persons:
Futures speculators related to major oil producers, such as Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah Muizzaddin of Brunei Shell Petroleum, Saudi Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud and Russian Vagit Alekperov of LUKoil, may have artificially boosted prices by speculating in the oil futures market.
The citation [3] immediately follows the list of these three individuals by saying: "No, we're not implicating any of these guys in market rigging…" The citation thus cannot be used to justify the claim that they did, in fact, engage in market rigging. YardsGreen ( talk) 11:07, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
this article seems quite POV energy crisis, increases in prices can have posative impacts for sellers vs buyers such as increased tax for those nations and more employment returns to investors etc which gives posative economic outcomes. Maybe a better take on it would be the 2000s energy shock, spike.
also another thing just because say oil goes up in price dosent mean that it is bad as it may cause structural change in the economy resulting lower long run cost to consumers eg Japan and Brazil.
Digmores ( talk) 04:58, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Added some counterbalancing info to the telecommuting claim in the demand management section. I think there is still some fluff that could be removed, particularly the bit about "liberating the workforce" and Moore's law which are totally irrelevant (I don't think there are many people who avoid telecommuting because their computer isn't powerful enough). I think a better way of wording this paragraph might be along the lines of: continued high oil prices could/has spur/red and increase in telecommuting and a continued trend towards avoiding unnecessary business travel, documented with appropriate news media sources which I'm sure exist. The study I've posted is not ideal (as it discusses energy consumption, not necessary oil, though for driving to work the two are very closely related) but I think it puts the impact of telecommuting, such as it is, into proper perspective for now. My worry was that this paragraph would be associated with the early one mentioning demand management as perhaps the most effective solution, which is true, but only in the context of urban planning/public transit mentioned immediately after. It might also be useful to insert a bit about the fact that some degree of "demand management" occurs automatically due to the price elasticity of demand for oil, i.e. people cut out unnecessary driving when gas is $4/gallon. Improving public transport and urban planning would, in theory, increase this elasticity (as people would have more alternative ways to get to work, even if they don't prefer them when oil is cheap). Stuffisthings ( talk) 03:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
I question the title of this article. Is crisis really the most apt term? Certainly it may have been a crisis for certain businesses, for a certain period of time, but to describe the overall phenomenon as a "crisis" strikes me as melodramatic. Calling it a crisis almost seems POV. Wouldn't a term such as "2000s energy price increases" be a more accurate and neutral name? Peregrine981 ( talk) 20:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
There was just a huge jump in the fuel prices in Miami, and this is the most expensive gas station I know, it is located right next to an inter-modal center for Miami International Airport. Daniel Christensen ( talk) 18:55, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
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Hi,
I'm concerned that
this recent edit overplays the role of speculation; it cites an editorial which is in turn based on other more heavyweight sources (impressive for an editorial) but the editorial does hype it up a little. For instance, one of the authorities cited by the editorial concludes with things like "Global demand remained the primary driver of oil prices from 2000 to 2009". Secondly, the editorial is talking about fuel prices now, rather than the previous trend in fuel prices which is the subject of the article. (Thirdly, it's totally US-centric, but we can worry about that later).
bobrayner (
talk) 21:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
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Is it an energy crisis or, more rightly, a petroleum crisis ?. Really, the problem with petroleum. -- Mac ( talk) 06:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Technically, of course, you're correct — this article only exists because of supply and demand issues with oil, not all energy. But, since "Oil" and "Energy" are used interchangeably in colloquial speech, we aren't obliged to pick "oil". In fact, since (IMO) it's more commonly referred to as the "Energy crisis" than the "Oil crisis", it should stay there. Just as an aside, I think the reason people call it an "energy" crisis is that the "energy crisis" can be solved while the "oil crisis" can't.-- Loodog ( talk) 21:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Much of this article needs updating to reflect the collapse of oil prices since last summer. Also, I think all the discussion on hypothetical mitigation to curb the price increase (which for the most part did not factor into the actual price drop) should be gutted. TastyCakes ( talk) 00:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Also, the oil price graphs are now almost a year old... TastyCakes ( talk) 16:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is about the price of crude oil (see discussion above, as well as language of entire article). US Gulf Coast Hurricanes affecting gas prices in certain US states (not all of US even) has no place in the lead. Hurricane Katrina affected oil prices world wide. NJGW ( talk) 16:42, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
(undent)"why is this sentence is the intro at all: ..." Funny, that's exactly the point I made just a few lines up... twice (tap tap, is this thing on?)
"Who exactly decided the scope of the article was to include a) only oil" What makes you say someone has made that distinction? Certainly it's not related to us by the title of the article, nor by the lead or body. Seems to me the article needs to be expanded with sections on substitution effect and the like. Take away oil and you need to substitute something in its place, and if you can't then the price of oil goes up. We couldn't substitute a cheaper alternative when the oil got scarce (or we thought it was getting scarce, which ever your POV), so the markets reflected this. Oil is used for energy, therefore this is an energy issue: we need more stuff that can be turned into energy or more ways to turn what we have lots of into energy. We don't have that stuff or those ways so we have an energy crisis (hey, I'm beginning to see how the mitigation section fits in!)
"Who exactly decided the scope of the article was to include b) only long term price increase of oil?" Uh, you want a whole article about how oil went up $25 one day because of bail-out fears and a sinking dollar? Discuss it at 2003 to 2008 world oil market chronology. How about how it goes up and down cyclically every year? Interesting, but how does that fit in? This aricle is about a confluence of real issues, not some temporary spike. I have no idea how that isn't obvious.
"who was it that, despite these strict assumptions/requirements on the article's subject matter renamed the article something that seems to deliberately increase its vagueness?" I guess we're all entitled to our own opinions, but you need to read this talk page before you say you know what's going on. There is consensus above, and only you and banned user Mac had an issue (though others thought your concerns had been answered). Are you bringing up new points now, or do you have the same issues? Personally I think the real problem is we're still in the thick of the story, and we won't know what happened or what to call it until later.
"you [are] only kick[ing] up crap when people started putting in information that's as general as the article's name calls for" What, this muck about the price of gasoline going up regionally and temporarily after a hurricane... you yourself just asked what the hell it's doing in the lead! Make up your mind. I really hope you're not pushing this gasoline/hurricane bit to proove a point.
"Are you also aware that the "energy crisis" in most peoples' minds involved short term price spikes as well as if not more than the more gradual increase over several years?" Source please... JK! But that is nonsense... we're talking (with this hurricane businesss) about the price of gas going up for a week or less, and not even throughout a whole country. I don't think anybody will ever call that an energy crisis, least wise not where you could cite it reasonably.
As has been pointed out many times above by several people, there is no separating petroleum from energy or energy from petroleum. If you want to suggest a new title or a new lead that's fine, but you're making a huge fuss over wanting to mention piddly local less-than-week-long gasoline increases, in the lead no less. If you want an article about that you'll have to start from scratch and put it somewhere else. NJGW ( talk) 01:28, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
"...worries over Iranian nuclear plans in 2006". Shouldn it be "worries over an armed conflict between USA and Iran" ?-- Ezzex ( talk) 16:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
The theory, or perhaps Arab propaganda, that the oil reserves have exceeded their median volume should be included in the article (so called "spike oil").
Some comment about "demand destruction" in the second and third quarter of 2008 should also be included. — [ Unsigned comment added by 132.211.195.34 ( talk • contribs).]
In view of the current (2009) energy and oil consumption, and economic conditions, one has to admit there never was an energy crisis in the 2000s. I suggest this article to be deleted. (September 18) -- Environnement2100 ( talk) 15:19, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Gasoline is only a part of energy. Nowadays, coal is definitely the first source, then oil and gas, then hydraulic, nuclear, renewables, biomass, whatnot. Who says the price of electricty climbed ? who says coal was no longer available ? There never was an energy crisis in the 2000s. Also gasoline always was available - worldwide. If there was a crisis, it was en economic one, please read Financial crisis of 2007–2010-- Environnement2100 ( talk) 18:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Upon request, this article has been proposed for deletion, October 3rd, 2009.-- Environnement2100 ( talk) 09:05, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Now that the mid-2008 oil price hikes to near $150/bbl. have passed and prices plummeted to less than a fourth of its peak, I'm wondering if it's time to change some of the prediction statements to past tense. For instance, a sentence reading, "John Doe, an analyst for XYZ Corp., predicts that oil will hit $200 per barrel by Labor Day," would now read "John Doe, an analyst for XYZ Corp., predicted (emphasis mine) that oil will hit $200 per barrel by Labor Day." Some of the quoted material would now need to be paraphrased to place emphasis on past tense, but that can easily be done. In essence, I think it may be time to revamp sections of this article, as they are now past tense. The sources can remain, as they pertain to valid quotes; it's just that some of the wording may need to be changed. [[ Briguy52748 ( talk) 16:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)]]
I am removing the following sentence, pertaining to three living persons:
Futures speculators related to major oil producers, such as Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah Muizzaddin of Brunei Shell Petroleum, Saudi Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud and Russian Vagit Alekperov of LUKoil, may have artificially boosted prices by speculating in the oil futures market.
The citation [3] immediately follows the list of these three individuals by saying: "No, we're not implicating any of these guys in market rigging…" The citation thus cannot be used to justify the claim that they did, in fact, engage in market rigging. YardsGreen ( talk) 11:07, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
this article seems quite POV energy crisis, increases in prices can have posative impacts for sellers vs buyers such as increased tax for those nations and more employment returns to investors etc which gives posative economic outcomes. Maybe a better take on it would be the 2000s energy shock, spike.
also another thing just because say oil goes up in price dosent mean that it is bad as it may cause structural change in the economy resulting lower long run cost to consumers eg Japan and Brazil.
Digmores ( talk) 04:58, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Added some counterbalancing info to the telecommuting claim in the demand management section. I think there is still some fluff that could be removed, particularly the bit about "liberating the workforce" and Moore's law which are totally irrelevant (I don't think there are many people who avoid telecommuting because their computer isn't powerful enough). I think a better way of wording this paragraph might be along the lines of: continued high oil prices could/has spur/red and increase in telecommuting and a continued trend towards avoiding unnecessary business travel, documented with appropriate news media sources which I'm sure exist. The study I've posted is not ideal (as it discusses energy consumption, not necessary oil, though for driving to work the two are very closely related) but I think it puts the impact of telecommuting, such as it is, into proper perspective for now. My worry was that this paragraph would be associated with the early one mentioning demand management as perhaps the most effective solution, which is true, but only in the context of urban planning/public transit mentioned immediately after. It might also be useful to insert a bit about the fact that some degree of "demand management" occurs automatically due to the price elasticity of demand for oil, i.e. people cut out unnecessary driving when gas is $4/gallon. Improving public transport and urban planning would, in theory, increase this elasticity (as people would have more alternative ways to get to work, even if they don't prefer them when oil is cheap). Stuffisthings ( talk) 03:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
I question the title of this article. Is crisis really the most apt term? Certainly it may have been a crisis for certain businesses, for a certain period of time, but to describe the overall phenomenon as a "crisis" strikes me as melodramatic. Calling it a crisis almost seems POV. Wouldn't a term such as "2000s energy price increases" be a more accurate and neutral name? Peregrine981 ( talk) 20:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
There was just a huge jump in the fuel prices in Miami, and this is the most expensive gas station I know, it is located right next to an inter-modal center for Miami International Airport. Daniel Christensen ( talk) 18:55, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
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During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 06:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 06:25, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 06:25, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 06:25, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 13:56, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
I'm concerned that
this recent edit overplays the role of speculation; it cites an editorial which is in turn based on other more heavyweight sources (impressive for an editorial) but the editorial does hype it up a little. For instance, one of the authorities cited by the editorial concludes with things like "Global demand remained the primary driver of oil prices from 2000 to 2009". Secondly, the editorial is talking about fuel prices now, rather than the previous trend in fuel prices which is the subject of the article. (Thirdly, it's totally US-centric, but we can worry about that later).
bobrayner (
talk) 21:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
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2000s energy crisis. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:53, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on 2000s energy crisis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:23, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:55, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:13, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I noticed that this link to the State Department Foreign Press Center's page about Hurricane Katrina is no longer working, and so I changed the status from live to dead, as well as adding a dead link template. This is my first time editing a Wikipedia article, so I missed anything please feel free to ping me on my Talk page. -- PhillipEGruenemay ( talk) 22:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)