Nova Scotia was a Geography and places good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " In the news" column on April 20, 2020. |
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This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
Due to lack of access to internet for days at a time, the dispute resolution case for these sections has been closed without adequate discussion. The matter present is two-fold: Representing, in the introduction, Wabanaki history on equal grounding and footing as European history; and, beefing up the history section as it pertains to Dawnland prior to post-Norse European colonization.
At the moment, the introduction remains mightily unsourced and extremely Euro-centric. There is but one line mentioning the Mi'kmaw nation and none indicating Wabanaki history or development in the province's birth and growth. There have been attempts to include these histories to no avail. This is not an attempt to include the Mi'kmaw creation story. That was removed, and there is no additional attempt to bring that back onto this page.
These histories include the Peace and Friendship Treaties which hold an equal importance to the Treaty of Paris (1763), especially as they continue to affect the running of day-to-day government operations (the Tripartite Forum, the new official language of the province, the Nova Scotian government's own admission that aboriginal title is an ongoing concern, etc. etc. etc.).
The fact of the matter is that Mi'kmaw history, and Indigenous histories at large, have been and are being written out of our history books. Another example from this page is the current line: "Britain fought France for the territory on numerous occasions for over a century afterwards." Modern historian, Todd Scott, says this: "In the early clashes between the British and Mi'kmaq, the British usually came out on the losing end, new research suggests. The Mi'kmaq were so successful at defending against the settlers, British soldiers were often too scared to leave their forts, according to historical documents." Yet, when I attempt to rewrite the sentence (with two cited sources instead of the current zero!) as: "Britain fought France and the Wabanaki Nations for the territory on numerous occasions for over a century afterwards," it gets erased.
At its core, Acadia and the Maritime provinces were established alongside and atop the Mi'kmaw country: Mi'kma'ki which had, and continues to have, seven/eight jurisdictional districts (like Canadian provinces). The Mi'kmaw nation still use its districts to understand their country's jurisdictions. This means the addition of a line such as: "In 1605, Acadia, France's first New France colony, was founded with the creation of Acadia's capital, Port-Royal, in one of the eight traditional districts of Miꞌkmaꞌki called Kespukwitk" is more than appropriate. It is akin to saying that Goa was established by the Portuguese in the Konkan region in, what was at the time, the Bijapur Sultanate. The difference is that the Bijapur Sultanate no longer exists where Mi'kma'ki does.
Additional notes: Time immemorial is a legal concept, not dramatising speech. The region in which both Mi'kma'ki and Nova Scotia exist is called Dawnland. The government structure of Mi'kma'ki still functions and maintains a government-to-government and nation-to-nation relationship with both the Canadian Crown and Nova Scotia, thus the Tripartite Forum. The transliterated name "Nopa Skoꞌsia" (which I gave two separated cited sources for!) should not have been erased neither in the header nor in the Etymology section. And, finally, Mi'kmaw Law is just as important as French Law and English Law, or "Netukulimk," "Civil Code," and "Common Law," respectively. It is the governing law of Mi'kma'ki, and the Peace and Friendship Treaties offer it real and true protection in ways that Civil Code does not have in a province with a large Acadian community. There is a reason the provincial and federal governments keep going to court over Indigenous issues, even though (and I quote) this page is apparently "not the place for laws and myths of one group comprising only 0.51% of the population."
I will leave this discussion on this somber note: On 4 June 2019, PM Justin Trudeau said “we accept the findings of the commissioners [of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission] that it was genocide.” From the Canadian Encyclopedia's article on the matter: "In 2018, the Canadian Museum for Human Rights decided to change its description of the atrocities committed against Indigenous peoples in Canada from 'cultural genocide' to 'genocide.'" The academic and policy model created by Gregory Stanton, the founding president of Genocide Watch, for understanding genocide lists "Denial" as the tenth and final stage of the act. The denial of the atrocities and the abject erasure of Indigenous histories is rampant on this continent. A Ohio State University article succinctly writes about the long history of Indigenous erasure (mainly from a US perspective; but, it is applicable to Canada as well), a history that extends back to the papal bulls inciting the "Doctrine of Discovery" which legally erased Indigenous land claims to their own countries due to them not being Christian. What is happening on this page is the denial of Wabanaki history and of treaty-protected Mi'kmaw sovereignty to overlapping territories, a denial which directly has roots in the genocidal history of the province itself. Please consider this as we move forward in updating the page.
PS – By citing genocide and actions that have roots therein, I am not targeting any one user nor seeking to place blame. I simply wish to a) update this page to a more truthful and equitable composition, and b) demonstrate what scholars, institutions, commissions, and whole governments are saying: Genocide happened, and our words and actions cannot ignore that fact. Again, this is not over-dramatising, I am quoting institutions, scholars, governments, et al. using legal terms (aka "time immemorial" and "genocide" which have set legal definitions). I do not throw this information around lightly, but when I call out erased and receive a response like "Spare me your drama about censorship," we must understand the context in which the censorship and erasure is occurring. There is a reason the Mi'kmaw nation "only [comprises] 0.51% of the population."
We are not falling into the WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS trap. We are citing modern and historical sources in good faith and writing at an encyclopedic level. This is not drama, this is truth. Danachos ( talk) 21:28, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
Notes & Refs
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References
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I propose that the Wikipedia article about the history of Halifax and the HRM, currently found at Community of Halifax, Nova Scotia, should be moved to History of Halifax (former city) and the Halifax Regional Municipality. The name is a bit longer and clumsier than I would prefer, but it's more logical than the current name because it accurately reflects the actual page topic. Feel free to join the discussion. Carguychris ( talk) 17:11, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
The topographic map in the "Geography" section is wrong. It shows a border between mainland Nova Scotia and Pictou Island, and that island itself is greyed out as if it were not a part of the province. Pictou Island is in fact a part of this province. All four Wikipedia articles for Pictou Island, including the English Wikipedia article for it, state that Pictou Island is indeed part of it. If someone more experienced than me is willing and able to correct the error, they should do so. JM2023 ( talk) 18:28, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Danachos - you are well aware of the dispute involving you, Moxy, and Magnolia677. You proposed significant revisions to the article and received pushback against it, including most recently from me. Disappointed to see that you've just gone ahead months after and made those edits anyway despite the obvious lack of consensus and the obvious disagreement, without so much as a talk page section. I've reverted to an earlier version until consensus can be reached, one way or another. As others have said, this is not the place to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and it's not a WP:SOAPBOX. I won't tolerate accusations of genocide denial like you aimed at me last time. JM ( talk) 11:41, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
@ JM2023, what citation do you need that Nova Scotia was a British colony before it was a province? Would it be enough if I grabbed any of the article's existing sources that refer to it as a colony? — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 15:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Nova Scotia was a Geography and places good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " In the news" column on April 20, 2020. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
Due to lack of access to internet for days at a time, the dispute resolution case for these sections has been closed without adequate discussion. The matter present is two-fold: Representing, in the introduction, Wabanaki history on equal grounding and footing as European history; and, beefing up the history section as it pertains to Dawnland prior to post-Norse European colonization.
At the moment, the introduction remains mightily unsourced and extremely Euro-centric. There is but one line mentioning the Mi'kmaw nation and none indicating Wabanaki history or development in the province's birth and growth. There have been attempts to include these histories to no avail. This is not an attempt to include the Mi'kmaw creation story. That was removed, and there is no additional attempt to bring that back onto this page.
These histories include the Peace and Friendship Treaties which hold an equal importance to the Treaty of Paris (1763), especially as they continue to affect the running of day-to-day government operations (the Tripartite Forum, the new official language of the province, the Nova Scotian government's own admission that aboriginal title is an ongoing concern, etc. etc. etc.).
The fact of the matter is that Mi'kmaw history, and Indigenous histories at large, have been and are being written out of our history books. Another example from this page is the current line: "Britain fought France for the territory on numerous occasions for over a century afterwards." Modern historian, Todd Scott, says this: "In the early clashes between the British and Mi'kmaq, the British usually came out on the losing end, new research suggests. The Mi'kmaq were so successful at defending against the settlers, British soldiers were often too scared to leave their forts, according to historical documents." Yet, when I attempt to rewrite the sentence (with two cited sources instead of the current zero!) as: "Britain fought France and the Wabanaki Nations for the territory on numerous occasions for over a century afterwards," it gets erased.
At its core, Acadia and the Maritime provinces were established alongside and atop the Mi'kmaw country: Mi'kma'ki which had, and continues to have, seven/eight jurisdictional districts (like Canadian provinces). The Mi'kmaw nation still use its districts to understand their country's jurisdictions. This means the addition of a line such as: "In 1605, Acadia, France's first New France colony, was founded with the creation of Acadia's capital, Port-Royal, in one of the eight traditional districts of Miꞌkmaꞌki called Kespukwitk" is more than appropriate. It is akin to saying that Goa was established by the Portuguese in the Konkan region in, what was at the time, the Bijapur Sultanate. The difference is that the Bijapur Sultanate no longer exists where Mi'kma'ki does.
Additional notes: Time immemorial is a legal concept, not dramatising speech. The region in which both Mi'kma'ki and Nova Scotia exist is called Dawnland. The government structure of Mi'kma'ki still functions and maintains a government-to-government and nation-to-nation relationship with both the Canadian Crown and Nova Scotia, thus the Tripartite Forum. The transliterated name "Nopa Skoꞌsia" (which I gave two separated cited sources for!) should not have been erased neither in the header nor in the Etymology section. And, finally, Mi'kmaw Law is just as important as French Law and English Law, or "Netukulimk," "Civil Code," and "Common Law," respectively. It is the governing law of Mi'kma'ki, and the Peace and Friendship Treaties offer it real and true protection in ways that Civil Code does not have in a province with a large Acadian community. There is a reason the provincial and federal governments keep going to court over Indigenous issues, even though (and I quote) this page is apparently "not the place for laws and myths of one group comprising only 0.51% of the population."
I will leave this discussion on this somber note: On 4 June 2019, PM Justin Trudeau said “we accept the findings of the commissioners [of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission] that it was genocide.” From the Canadian Encyclopedia's article on the matter: "In 2018, the Canadian Museum for Human Rights decided to change its description of the atrocities committed against Indigenous peoples in Canada from 'cultural genocide' to 'genocide.'" The academic and policy model created by Gregory Stanton, the founding president of Genocide Watch, for understanding genocide lists "Denial" as the tenth and final stage of the act. The denial of the atrocities and the abject erasure of Indigenous histories is rampant on this continent. A Ohio State University article succinctly writes about the long history of Indigenous erasure (mainly from a US perspective; but, it is applicable to Canada as well), a history that extends back to the papal bulls inciting the "Doctrine of Discovery" which legally erased Indigenous land claims to their own countries due to them not being Christian. What is happening on this page is the denial of Wabanaki history and of treaty-protected Mi'kmaw sovereignty to overlapping territories, a denial which directly has roots in the genocidal history of the province itself. Please consider this as we move forward in updating the page.
PS – By citing genocide and actions that have roots therein, I am not targeting any one user nor seeking to place blame. I simply wish to a) update this page to a more truthful and equitable composition, and b) demonstrate what scholars, institutions, commissions, and whole governments are saying: Genocide happened, and our words and actions cannot ignore that fact. Again, this is not over-dramatising, I am quoting institutions, scholars, governments, et al. using legal terms (aka "time immemorial" and "genocide" which have set legal definitions). I do not throw this information around lightly, but when I call out erased and receive a response like "Spare me your drama about censorship," we must understand the context in which the censorship and erasure is occurring. There is a reason the Mi'kmaw nation "only [comprises] 0.51% of the population."
We are not falling into the WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS trap. We are citing modern and historical sources in good faith and writing at an encyclopedic level. This is not drama, this is truth. Danachos ( talk) 21:28, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
Notes & Refs
|
---|
References
|
I propose that the Wikipedia article about the history of Halifax and the HRM, currently found at Community of Halifax, Nova Scotia, should be moved to History of Halifax (former city) and the Halifax Regional Municipality. The name is a bit longer and clumsier than I would prefer, but it's more logical than the current name because it accurately reflects the actual page topic. Feel free to join the discussion. Carguychris ( talk) 17:11, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
The topographic map in the "Geography" section is wrong. It shows a border between mainland Nova Scotia and Pictou Island, and that island itself is greyed out as if it were not a part of the province. Pictou Island is in fact a part of this province. All four Wikipedia articles for Pictou Island, including the English Wikipedia article for it, state that Pictou Island is indeed part of it. If someone more experienced than me is willing and able to correct the error, they should do so. JM2023 ( talk) 18:28, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Danachos - you are well aware of the dispute involving you, Moxy, and Magnolia677. You proposed significant revisions to the article and received pushback against it, including most recently from me. Disappointed to see that you've just gone ahead months after and made those edits anyway despite the obvious lack of consensus and the obvious disagreement, without so much as a talk page section. I've reverted to an earlier version until consensus can be reached, one way or another. As others have said, this is not the place to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and it's not a WP:SOAPBOX. I won't tolerate accusations of genocide denial like you aimed at me last time. JM ( talk) 11:41, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
@ JM2023, what citation do you need that Nova Scotia was a British colony before it was a province? Would it be enough if I grabbed any of the article's existing sources that refer to it as a colony? — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 15:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)