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I have reinstated some information regarding the academic credentials of the members following this revert. While Bellamy is known as an environmental campaigner, it is worth mentioning here that he is also a botanist of some note (he lectured at Durham University) which is relevant to his membership of any scientific society (if this was a knitting group, then the academic credentials might well be irrelevant). While many scientists do not agree with this organisation's stance, that does not negate the academic status of the members. Gwinva ( talk) 06:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I weakened the Exxon bit, the source says The Climate Science Coalition’s lobbyist Owen McShane and retired scientist Vincent Gray were on the speakers list. So presumably Heartland paid them the rather handsome US$1000 fee, plus travel and accommodation at the plush Marriott hotel. Heartland assures everyone that no oil money paid for this conference, but it’s a pretty specious argument given that Exxon’s donations would free up other money to pay for the conference. I'm not sure the Greenpeace crit is notable even William M. Connolley ( talk) 12:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
The addition to the NZCSC site to which William Connolley refers is regrettable and I expect that it will shortly be removed. However I am in agreement with Gvinda that a person is entitled to his or her academic and other credentials. Professor Bellamy is entitled to respect. His credentials are: Prof. David J. Bellamy, OBE., BSc., PhD., Hon FLS,. DSc., DUniv., C.Biol., FIBiol., FRIN
Hon: Professor Adult and Continuing Education-University of Durham. Special Professor of Geography University of Nottingham. Hon Professor of the University of Central Queensland.
President of The Conservation Foundation, Durham. Surrey and Birmingham Wildlife Trusts, Coral Cay Conservation, National Association for Environmental Education. British Naturalists Association, Conservation Volunteers of Ireland, British Institute of Cleaning Science, British Home and Holiday Parks Association, Camping and Caravanning Club of Great Britain.
Vice President British Trust for Conservation Volunteers, Fauna and Flora International, Marine Conservation Society, Australian Marine Conservation Society, Wild Trout Trust, Countrywide Holidays Association.
Trustee of the Living Landscape Trust, Hon Fellow Chartered Institute of Water and Environmental Management. Honourary Member of the Emirates Environment Group.
international consultant, author of 44 books, writer and presenter of some 400 television progammes on Botany, Ecology and Environment.
Recipient of the Dutch Order of the Golden Ark, the U.N.E.P. Global 500 Award; The Duke of Edinburgh’s Award for Underwater Research; BAFTA., Richard Dimbleby Award., BSAC Diver of The Year Award, RGS Busk Medal.
Citation: http://www.barrettbellamyclimate.com/
Of course it would be unreasonable to expect the inclusion of all that, but to refer to him as Professor Bellamy is, at a minimum, polite.
In passing I suggest that it be noted that Gerrit van der Lingen was a geologist with the New Zealand Geological Survey and is entitled to be so described.
I am happy to provide a supplementary description of the structure of NZCSC and a more complete list of its founder members if it is not immediately to be butchered.
Roger Dewhurst ( talk) 16:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I do not want to answer that question off the top of my head but will do so as soon as I am satisfied that I can do so without error. The organization is in three parts, scientific, economic and, I think, planning. This explains why there are people associated with it with diverse backgrounds. I do not propose to add to that until I have satisfied myself with the detail.
On the matter of Professor Bellamy I believe custom dictates that senior military officers, university professors and possibly some others are entitled to be addressed or described by the rank or title after retirement.
Roger Dewhurst ( talk) 21:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Why is Vincent Gray referred to as a "Coal Chemist"? Is there a professional specialty in chemistry that I am not familiar with? Why not just Chemist? It seems that the use of the unnecessary adjective "Coal" is being used to try to imply some kind of negative idea about his qualifications ... this is obvious. A parallel would be using 'Big Pharma Biologist" to describe a highly qualified biologist based on his past employment history.
I think it should be removed, particularly since he is long retired and has gone on and done many other things since. It certainly has no bearing on his status as a founder of this organization. KipHansen ( talk) 17:28, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Is this article correctly categorised under Scientific Organization? By it's actions, NZCSC looks more like a lobby group than a scientific entity. -- Pakaraki ( talk) 08:20, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Notagainst has proposed that this article be deleted, on the grounds that:
This proposed deletion is contested, because this organisation is notable in the history of climate change in New Zealand. This organisation was very vocal in New Zealand and received considerable media coverage, enabling them to delay action in New Zealand to address climate change. In particular, in response to the points made:
This organisation is an important and notable part of the history of climate change in New Zealand, and so this wikipedia article should not be deleted.-- Pakaraki ( talk) 22:07, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
I'll look at making some edits shortly that give more background on the lobbying that came out of this group - and caused very significant doubt among many. This involved dozens and dozens of newspaper articles and questions in parliament. Also to clarify that the court case was brought by a very dodgy trust - not the Coalition itself - and it was the trust (which had no assets) that went into liquidation. Not the Coalition.
Secondly, despite a much lower public profile since 2014, Terry Dunleavy, honorary secretary of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition. was still putting out news releases in 2018.
Thirdly, and despite what the article now says, there *is* still Coalition-branded content at the originally registered-in-2006 (2006-05-14) sites: climatescience.org.nz, nzclimatescience.org, climatescience.org.nz. So these are still being actively maintained by an original Coalition team member - WHOIS hides who this is and dnc.org.nz shows this to be Terry Dunleavy. However the domain name nzclimatescience.net registered at exactly the same time is still maintained. It doesn't lead anywhere - but its WHOIS shows it being registered to Allan Manson. He was/is webmaster for the Coalition, and also owns the domain: climatescienceinternational.org which is active with content branded "International Climate Science Coalition" - again, created on exactly the same date as the NZ-branded ones.
Some useful background links to all of this, not all of which are suitable as sources for inclusion in the article:
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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I have reinstated some information regarding the academic credentials of the members following this revert. While Bellamy is known as an environmental campaigner, it is worth mentioning here that he is also a botanist of some note (he lectured at Durham University) which is relevant to his membership of any scientific society (if this was a knitting group, then the academic credentials might well be irrelevant). While many scientists do not agree with this organisation's stance, that does not negate the academic status of the members. Gwinva ( talk) 06:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I weakened the Exxon bit, the source says The Climate Science Coalition’s lobbyist Owen McShane and retired scientist Vincent Gray were on the speakers list. So presumably Heartland paid them the rather handsome US$1000 fee, plus travel and accommodation at the plush Marriott hotel. Heartland assures everyone that no oil money paid for this conference, but it’s a pretty specious argument given that Exxon’s donations would free up other money to pay for the conference. I'm not sure the Greenpeace crit is notable even William M. Connolley ( talk) 12:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
The addition to the NZCSC site to which William Connolley refers is regrettable and I expect that it will shortly be removed. However I am in agreement with Gvinda that a person is entitled to his or her academic and other credentials. Professor Bellamy is entitled to respect. His credentials are: Prof. David J. Bellamy, OBE., BSc., PhD., Hon FLS,. DSc., DUniv., C.Biol., FIBiol., FRIN
Hon: Professor Adult and Continuing Education-University of Durham. Special Professor of Geography University of Nottingham. Hon Professor of the University of Central Queensland.
President of The Conservation Foundation, Durham. Surrey and Birmingham Wildlife Trusts, Coral Cay Conservation, National Association for Environmental Education. British Naturalists Association, Conservation Volunteers of Ireland, British Institute of Cleaning Science, British Home and Holiday Parks Association, Camping and Caravanning Club of Great Britain.
Vice President British Trust for Conservation Volunteers, Fauna and Flora International, Marine Conservation Society, Australian Marine Conservation Society, Wild Trout Trust, Countrywide Holidays Association.
Trustee of the Living Landscape Trust, Hon Fellow Chartered Institute of Water and Environmental Management. Honourary Member of the Emirates Environment Group.
international consultant, author of 44 books, writer and presenter of some 400 television progammes on Botany, Ecology and Environment.
Recipient of the Dutch Order of the Golden Ark, the U.N.E.P. Global 500 Award; The Duke of Edinburgh’s Award for Underwater Research; BAFTA., Richard Dimbleby Award., BSAC Diver of The Year Award, RGS Busk Medal.
Citation: http://www.barrettbellamyclimate.com/
Of course it would be unreasonable to expect the inclusion of all that, but to refer to him as Professor Bellamy is, at a minimum, polite.
In passing I suggest that it be noted that Gerrit van der Lingen was a geologist with the New Zealand Geological Survey and is entitled to be so described.
I am happy to provide a supplementary description of the structure of NZCSC and a more complete list of its founder members if it is not immediately to be butchered.
Roger Dewhurst ( talk) 16:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I do not want to answer that question off the top of my head but will do so as soon as I am satisfied that I can do so without error. The organization is in three parts, scientific, economic and, I think, planning. This explains why there are people associated with it with diverse backgrounds. I do not propose to add to that until I have satisfied myself with the detail.
On the matter of Professor Bellamy I believe custom dictates that senior military officers, university professors and possibly some others are entitled to be addressed or described by the rank or title after retirement.
Roger Dewhurst ( talk) 21:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Why is Vincent Gray referred to as a "Coal Chemist"? Is there a professional specialty in chemistry that I am not familiar with? Why not just Chemist? It seems that the use of the unnecessary adjective "Coal" is being used to try to imply some kind of negative idea about his qualifications ... this is obvious. A parallel would be using 'Big Pharma Biologist" to describe a highly qualified biologist based on his past employment history.
I think it should be removed, particularly since he is long retired and has gone on and done many other things since. It certainly has no bearing on his status as a founder of this organization. KipHansen ( talk) 17:28, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Is this article correctly categorised under Scientific Organization? By it's actions, NZCSC looks more like a lobby group than a scientific entity. -- Pakaraki ( talk) 08:20, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Notagainst has proposed that this article be deleted, on the grounds that:
This proposed deletion is contested, because this organisation is notable in the history of climate change in New Zealand. This organisation was very vocal in New Zealand and received considerable media coverage, enabling them to delay action in New Zealand to address climate change. In particular, in response to the points made:
This organisation is an important and notable part of the history of climate change in New Zealand, and so this wikipedia article should not be deleted.-- Pakaraki ( talk) 22:07, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
I'll look at making some edits shortly that give more background on the lobbying that came out of this group - and caused very significant doubt among many. This involved dozens and dozens of newspaper articles and questions in parliament. Also to clarify that the court case was brought by a very dodgy trust - not the Coalition itself - and it was the trust (which had no assets) that went into liquidation. Not the Coalition.
Secondly, despite a much lower public profile since 2014, Terry Dunleavy, honorary secretary of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition. was still putting out news releases in 2018.
Thirdly, and despite what the article now says, there *is* still Coalition-branded content at the originally registered-in-2006 (2006-05-14) sites: climatescience.org.nz, nzclimatescience.org, climatescience.org.nz. So these are still being actively maintained by an original Coalition team member - WHOIS hides who this is and dnc.org.nz shows this to be Terry Dunleavy. However the domain name nzclimatescience.net registered at exactly the same time is still maintained. It doesn't lead anywhere - but its WHOIS shows it being registered to Allan Manson. He was/is webmaster for the Coalition, and also owns the domain: climatescienceinternational.org which is active with content branded "International Climate Science Coalition" - again, created on exactly the same date as the NZ-branded ones.
Some useful background links to all of this, not all of which are suitable as sources for inclusion in the article: