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Archive 1 |
I heard her on NPR today ( http://www.npr.org/2015/06/12/413849106/hillary-clinton-to-address-economic-issues-in-campaign-speech) and was astonished to learn that she is 35 years old. Her voice is that of a 6 year old. --- Dagme ( talk) 16:47, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
The most interesting thing about Tanden, I think, is that she shows the debate within the Democratic Party, on appointing minorities vs. white guys, or not attacking Bernie Sanders,l for example. Much of this came out in Wikileaks in more detail than you usually get in politics. I think we should have more of it in the article. -- Nbauman ( talk) 21:12, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
The section presents three different attempts to use Neera Tanden's stolen private emails to attack her. None of these attempts was particularly astute or on target, but Wikipedia is currently promoting them just as the Clinton-attacking team wanted to see them used, but omits context in which her emails were sent.
I am going to shorten this section drastically (WP:UNDUE) and change the POV title "Wikileaks revelations" to something more neutral. The point of this biography is to provide encyclopedic information to people who want to learn more about Neera Tanden, not to provide a COATRACK for people who hope to use it to embarrass her. HouseOfChange ( talk) 03:05, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
This April 27, 2018 BuzzFeed article provides context and NPOV account of a recent story that Aheezau wants to see added: [2] Here is a quote from that story: "In an all-staff meeting on Wednesday, Tanden named one of the women who reported Strong "unintentionally," according to a CAP spokesperson. But the name disclosure left some staffers questioning Tanden's ability to handle issues of sexual harassment at the organization."
This story belongs in the Center for American Progress article, but I am not sure Tanden's blunder in a staff meeting is going to be important enough to her career to be added to this article. What do others think? HouseOfChange ( talk) 16:19, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
There's a revert war going on the heading of the page over this phrase. I find the characterization to be non-controversial and sourced, but perhaps it would be worded in a more neutral manner? I think it's an important detail because it gives context to her activities post-Obama. @ User:Farlandia, what's your concern? Jonathan Williams ( talk)
In a 30-minute phone interview with The New Republic, Tanden stood by the quality of CAP’s work and the organization’s ability to push a diverse set of progressive ideas, pointing to CAP proposals like paid family leave, which were adopted by Sanders and not Clinton. She noted CAP’s work on issues like income inequality, foreign policy, and education, some of which have not been picked up by Clinton...
This article is seeing a surge of vandalism, probably as a result of a letter written by Bernie Sanders that called out CAP and Tanden saying she "repeatedly calls for unity while simultaneously maligning my staff and supporters and belittling progressive ideas." It would be good if the article could be semi-protected for a week or so, so we don't have to clean up after edits such as "her masterful ability to troll earned her the epithet “Scumbag Neera”" snd "She is best known for her attacks against healthcare and working mothers on welfare." 02:22, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
"She was described as a "hawkish". In September 2013"
Reference? --- Dagme ( talk) 15:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia follows what reliable sources say. The article about Center for American Progress does plenty of deep diving into its politics and what critics say about it. But there is no excuse for censoring from the lead of the article that it is widely regarded as "liberal" and/or "progressive." For example: NYT "the Center for American Progress, the progressive think tank", Detroit News "Center for American Progress, a progressive policy think tank.", The Hill: "liberal think tank Center for American Progress". HouseOfChange ( talk) 01:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
I agree with this, there is no question that CAP is widely seen as liberal/progressive User1956a ( talk) 21:24, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
The recent additions made concerning foreign policy have been tendentious and hostile rather than neutral. If the leaked email - which did not lead to her or CAP endorsing the position she inquired about - is deemed by the majority to be crucial to describing Tanden’s views (I don’t thing it is a good representation of her views at all, especially because she has repeatedly clarified that she does not hold this position), it needs to be kept in a more neutral and less openly biased tone. Repeated edits to reverse it to a more leading description of her position do not seem to be in keeping with Wikipedia’s mission User1956a ( talk) 23:10, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
I restored the wholesale deletion of the paragraph so that people can make an effort at presenting the material from an NPOV. Jonathan Williams ( talk) 17:30, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
I would argue if we include a reference to her Libya email, we should make it clear that this was a question she asked one single time, that she has made no similar foreign policy statements, and that she has expressed regret about asking this question. We should take care not to present it as “her foreign policy views“, as the original addition did, because there is no evidence this is an accurate reflection of her overall views.
I also agree that removing the paragraph about CAP’s donors is the right move as it is not relevant to Tanden’s political views. User1956a ( talk) 21:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
I personally do not think a question from a single email that had literally no impact on her or CAP’s argued position needs to be mentioned in her Wikipedia article at all, but once again if the majority thinks it is relevant enough to be included, we need to take great care to accurately convey the context and her statements expressing regret for even asking about this User1956a ( talk) 21:27, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Flaughtin: I agree 100%. I personally think, given Tanden’s own explanation and the hostile (to her) lean of the sources we should not include this at all, especially because it does not reflect her views on foreign policy. If we choose to include it at all, we have to take great care how to present it accurately and in a non-biased non-tendentious fashion. User1956a ( talk) 17:30, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
Since this topic is coming up again with recent edits: in my opinion it is not appropriate to include the leaked Libya email issue in the Political Views section, since those are demonstrably not Tanden’s political views, as she has repeatedly clarified.
I have also not yet seen evidence why this should be included at all, since it does not in my opinion rise to the level of relevance for her career to be part of her Wikipedia entry User1956a ( talk) 23:14, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
I want to repeat my suggestion that because of the repeated vandalism and hostile/misleading/tendentious edits to this page, all major changes or additions to the page should be drafted and discussed here before being published. This will ensure that the tone of the article remains neutral/objective and the content appropriate User1956a ( talk) 23:37, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Everyone here except for @ Jonathan Williams: argued against including the reference to the Libya email, I do not see how that justifies his repeated attempts to singlehandedly include them anyway. @ HouseOfChange: suggested reaching a consensus here first, which we have not done. User1956a ( talk) 00:10, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
I propose we address the Libya comments separately – the above discussion also related to CAP donors and other parts things that have been mangled by your continued one-sided policing of discussion. No one else has specifically addressed the Libya comments other than us. Jonathan Williams ( talk) 03:32, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Well @ HouseOfChange: has stated views on re the Libya email and so has @ Flaughtin:, both in my opinion clearly against including it User1956a ( talk) 03:43, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
There has to be some standard as to what can be called a person's political views, and I don't see how a single question could meet any standard. Especially since she's flat out said that's not her position! Bewildered Oregonian ( talk) 04:33, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Aren't political views sections only for articles of actual politicians? She is a strategist, is she not? ⌚️ ( talk) 21:33, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Given the level of vandalism this page receives, I suggest we don’t allow new sections or major changes without first going through the talk page process User1956a ( talk) 15:26, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
why wont user1956a allow a single piece of negative information? Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:44, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
I can think of at least three off the top of my head:
1. Calling for Libya to repay the US for the invasion
2. Getting Matt Bruenig fired for calling her a "scumbag"
3. This latest sexual harassment stuff.
I came here to refresh myself on these and could not find anything on them. (Comment above by IP [3]
So HouseOfChange has a history of consistently removing all controversies related to all political figures they have personal admiration for. This is not how Wikipedia works. I added information about the sexual harassment stuff, and they deleted it instantly, and called for me to be banned from editing altogether, this despite the fact that I used multiple credible sources, including reporting from the Center For American Progress (where the controversy happened) journalistic arm, "ThinkProgress".
You should be banned from editing if your only goal here is to shove things down the memory hole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aheezau ( talk • contribs) 05:37, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Strongly agree! Seriously, the absence of controversies renders this article useless for anyone who actually wants to know what a person or an organization is all about. I thought "Controversies" was pretty standard as a section in biographies of living persons. When someone is professionally involved in political faction-fights, their omission is ridiculous. I've encountered dozens of criticisms and controversies concerning Ms Tanden while trying to follow American politics from abroad by means of skimming internet news and half-listening to panels and commentaries. I was never able to get a clear understanding of what it was about, other than its having something to do with her upholding Hillary Clinton's brand of corporate centrism—so I came here to review the basics, and found no clues, just the usual claim made by such people to being "progressive" and so forth. Surely someone knowledgable is capable of explaining Tanden's positions and the argumentation around them? Also, there seems to be a pattern in both this and the related article about her CAP PAC, of referring to any kind of criticism as an "attack" without any suggestion of substantive issues involved — as if it's all gratuitous and without merit, perhaps from hate groups. I'm not suggesting the article should be hostile or dismissive; it would be great to see some substantive and reasonably respectful summaries of both sides of various controversies so readers can make up their own minds. That would certainly show more respect for Ms Tanden than the current puff-piece. Do you believe she really wants to be written up as if she were a professional hostess for debutante parties, or a spokeswoman for a harmless ineffectual charity? If she does, she surely should have chosen some such line of work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.74.218 ( talk) 12:46, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
I agree, Neera Tanden is a controversial figure and her reputation as a "progressive" is highly debated. For example, she is famous for criticizing the progressive platform of Bernie Sanders (the most progressive platform in mainstream American politics). She has also assaulted a journalist for asking questions about the Iraq War. It's a serious offense, relevant to her career in politics, and should not be omitted. Yet it has been deleted from her Wikipedia page. That's not right. -- Ummyaaaa ( talk) 18:56, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
Since there is an entire cottage industry out there manufacturing attacks on Tanden, misrepresenting her, or blowing her comments or actions out of prop, I am firmly siding with HouseOfChange. It’s a Wikipedia article. Unless you all plan to email Tanden and get her to tell her side of the story so it can be included, we shouldn’t include attacks either. Let me put it this way: the Wikipedia entries of a lot of more prominent and more "controversial" individuals do not have sections devoted to "controversies", this shouldn't be any different here just because the people with a grudge against Tanden happen to be Very Online. User1956a ( talk) 17:58, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
"Not liking Bernie Sanders" does not mean her Wikipedia page has to include smears of her. This is personality cult level stuff. User1956a ( talk) 00:03, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
The fact that the above unsigned user was unable to find any details on controversies surrounding her, and in fact found a description of them incomprehensible, tells you how valid they are. Disagreeing with Bernie Sanders is not a controversy. Bewildered Oregonian ( talk) 04:30, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
user1956a: why are you defending neera tanden so hard? its pretty clear that you have lost your objectivity. Almost Every single person involved in politics has controversy surrounding them. Almost every single one of those people have sections on wikipedia regarding controversies. why are you advocating so strongly to not include controversies for neera when they are included for everybody else? citing factual evidence of wrongdoing is not negative Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:40, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
there are no controversies addressed in the article because you removed all of them. if there was actually a proper attention to her controversies there would be a whole dedicated section to them. from the 2016 aftermath, the 2008 reporter incident, sexual assault allegation leak, etc. It is pretty clear you have lost your objectivity when you say that a controversy section is not relevant or appropriate when i can list 4 significant controversies relevant to her political view and career. Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:50, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
you didnt address my valid point that there are enough controversies to validate a controversy section. especially since similar sections are so prominent amongst political figures and commentators. But why would you address that since you lost you objectivity and are incapable of acknowledging negative information about neera? your 24/7 support of neera by removing any negative information proves that. Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:59, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
Tanden supported Hillary Clinton's 2008 bid for the presidency and remained her close ally in 2016. Many supporters of Bernie Sanders strongly criticize Tanden and CAP; the NYT goes so far as to call it "enmity." [1] Tanden online is in frequent disputes with what her mom refers to as "Bernie brothers". [1] Dislike of Tanden and CAP runs so deep among Sanders supporters that he uses attacks on them in fund-raising emails. [2]
This article is repeatedly the target of editors who want to see Sanders' team criticisms expressed in Wikipedia's voice. It would be good if instead the article could describe the controversy itself in an NPOV way. (HouseOfChange said this but forgot to sign it.)
it is impossible to address the controversy without appearing to be negatively inclined towards tanden. it is also impossible to properly discuss neera tanden without addressing the controversy. Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:25, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
user1956a neera tandens clear and obvious work to criticize and attack bernie sanders and his supporters is absolutely relevant to both 2016 and 2020 elections, and the 2016 aftermath. saying otherwise is delusional. Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:46, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
website: politico article title: Sanders’ clash with liberal think tank highlights divides in Democratic Party author: Katie Galioto Jomalleyp ( talk) 22:25, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
user1956a defense of neera tanden is clearly partisan. i strongly suggest you carefully review any suggestions from someone with a clear loss of objectivity Jomalleyp ( talk) 22:26, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
I would consider this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/941634069 way less objective than any edit I have ever made or proposed User1956a ( talk) 22:27, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
clearly i made a joke as my first edit on my first day, but what about the subsequent edits with clearly valid and relevant npov factual information? like these: New changes since new information wont be allowed to be posted no matter how relevant, factual, or how many cited sources: Despite labeling herself as a progressive liberal, she is a controversial figure among other progressive liberals. Source: current affairs
Despite supporting universal healthcare, many progressives have criticized Tanden for not supporting single payer universal healthcare. source: free beacon
In 2008, Neera Tanden encountered criticism when she pushed Faiz Shakir, a reporter who asked Neera Tanden a question about Hillary Clinton and the Iraq War. source:observer
Jomalleyp ( talk) 22:32, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
Current Affairs is run by a Bernie supporter who vehemently hates Tanden, Free Beacon and Observer are conservative publications with a clear bias against her as well. Calling her a “alt-right-wing war hawk” is not a joke but rather an attempt to use Wikipedia as a vehicle for personal animosity and exactly the kind of thing I have tried to guard this article against. User1956a ( talk) 22:43, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
References
Ms. Tanden now leads the Center for American Progress, Mr. Shakir runs Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign and the enmity between the two camps burst into the open last weekend.
During the rally Sunday, Mr. Sanders's campaign also sent out a fund-raising email to supporters off its dust-up with the Center for American Progress.
But even now, a month after the Vermont senator pledged his sincere if grumpy Philly fealty to the nominee, Tanden frets that the attacks Sanders made on Clinton during the primary have done irreparable damage by eroding trust and feeding Donald Trump's Crooked Hillary crusade.
Three years after a bitter face-off with Hillary Clinton, Sen. Bernie Sanders still sees her political machine working against him. Clinton may not be running for president, but the world of staffers and institutions that buoyed her presidential run, Sanders says, has a new goal: to quash his progressive vision for America.
This was not a controversy in 2008. We know about this utterly trivial event only from a NYT article published in 2019. [4]
This event is being discussed in 2019 only as part of the ongoing bad feeling between Neera Tanden and Bernie Sanders supporters including Faiz Shakir. HouseOfChange ( talk) 23:16, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
In my opinion this event, which as HouseOfChange mentioned was first discussed as a second hand report in the NYT in 2019, is not relevant to understanding Tanden’s career or political views and does not warrant being mentioned in the article User1956a ( talk) 23:21, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
I think so far nobody has disagreed that the conflict should be addressed in some way, without demonizing either side. The problem so far has been Sanders supporters trying to edit their POV into the narrative. I agree with HouseOfChange that we should draft a section that describes the conflict in a neutral, NPOV way. I do not think this incident specifically belongs in the article, specifically not in the career section User1956a ( talk) 01:03, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Tanden has 24 years of notable, and well-sourced professional ties to the Clintons, from a 22 year old working on BC's 1992 run, to, as a 46 year-old advising HRC during her 2016 POTUS run, with various work in between in the BC WH, HRC's senate office, and her 2008 nomination bid. Would any editors dispute this, or believe its in any way controversial, or that it hasn't been responsibly covered here as per WP:BLP? Please discuss here if you believe the current prose is problematic. Critical Chris ( talk)
I personally don’t think her close association is disputed or controversial in the least and as far as I have seen Tanden has never denied or disputed it herself.
My only remaining comment concerns the word “largely”, as in “her career has largely been defined“ by work for the Clintons. She worked for the Obama administration and campaign and has worked for CAP almost since its beginning, which are important career elements independent of the Clintons. I would argue “her career has in part been defined” is more accurate, given the totality of her career trajectory. User1956a ( talk) 15:39, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
This article https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house/think-tank-post-puts-spotlight-on-veteran-democratic-operative-neera-tanden/2011/11/01/gIQAn6fpjM_story.html emphasizes the prestige of the role as CAP president within the Democratic Party as a whole as well as her close association with Obama, who introduces her as a “friend”, which I think shows that she has had important career milestones independent of the Clintons. But I don’t actually have very strong feelings about this, I personally think “largely” is an exaggeration but this is not the hill I would die on, as her close ties to the Clintons are undisputed. User1956a ( talk) 16:26, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
The first sentence of the lede says Tanden is an American political consultant and lawyer
. But there is no reference to her work as a lawyer in the body. Has she worked as a lawyer, and if so is that work sufficiently defining to be in the article's first sentence?
AleatoryPonderings (
???) (
!!!) 23:49, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@ HouseOfChange: reverted the fragment, claiming WP:UNDUE:
Not sure how is this undue if she is clearly expressing her views on the subject. Let's not do things that might look like whitewashing. BeŻet ( talk) 15:00, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
To add to this article: her publicly stated position on potential cuts to Social Security and Medicare. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 23:09, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
… is she a
political consultant? I don't know of any clearly
WP:RS that refer to her as such, and I don't really know what to call a non-academic think tank person. Following
Susan Rice, I recently changed the lede of
Michèle Flournoy—also a think-tanker who's been in and out of government—to advisor
, which I thought was slightly better. Anyone have any ideas here?
AleatoryPonderings (
???) (
!!!) 18:24, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Could someone add the detail of her role in the closing of ThinkProgress and her views on a living wage. There is a connection and this has been some of the criticism of her should she take a position in Biden's White House. It relates to the unwillingness to pay the employees at ThinkProgress fair wages. 203.131.210.82 ( talk) 09:07, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
References
But the site, which is editorially independent from CAP, has struggled in recent years as advertising revenues have dried up and traffic has dipped...the site was facing a $3 million gulf between revenues and expenses in 2019, with $350,000 of it made up by a shortfall in ad revenue and nearly $180,000 of it coming from a drop in expected online contributions.
HouseOfChange ( talk) 03:15, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
The statement "She has also been the target of criticism by Sanders's supporters" is not supported by sources, which seems to be WP:SYNTH and WP:UNDUE.
When looking at the three sources:
Therefore, I would like to suggest we remove this statement, unless better sources are found. BeŻet ( talk) 23:41, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
FYI: I have tried twice recently to get this article semi-ed at WP:RFPP with no success. I don't know why; a quick look at the history reveals BLP violations and vandalism galore. I find this both concerning and exhausting. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 18:17, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Attempt to reach consensus on the inclusion of content related to leaked emails about Libya? - https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Neera_Tanden&type=revision&diff=940512694&oldid=940500705
We would be ascribing views to someone based on one single statement (in form of a question!) from a decade ago, something that is not backed up by her work or her other expressed views. User1956a ( talk) 03:56, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Is there any evidence she's ever advocated for this? Because a question isn't advocating for it. If we declare something to be a person's political views, we should have at least two incidents of it being mentioned at all, especially for a political figure who presumably talks about their views all the time. Bewildered Oregonian ( talk) 04:18, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
[a]lmost all editors consider The Intercept a biased source, so uses may need to be attributed. While Salon is not blacklisted,
[e]ditors consider Salon biased or opinionated, and its statements should be attributed.Assessments of CNN and WaPo are far more sanguine. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 02:47, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
I am inviting PailSimon and User1956a to contribute to this discussion, given their recent edits. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 16:43, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
I’ve contributed here before; I maintain that a single email posing a question is not relevant if it does not lead to further statements and actions, which in her case I am not aware it did. If we are describing her political views, it should contain positions she actually holds User1956a ( talk) 12:47, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Here are some of the many stories on many WP:RSs about the conflict between Neera Tanden and people who identify and are described in the media as "progressives," and/or the "Bernie Sanders wing" of the Democratic party.
Matt Taibi and others argue that Tanden is not a progressive, because she raises money among corporate interests such as health insurance companies and defense contractors, that are opposed to progressive policies such as single payer health care, a military approach to foriegn policy, reducing the Pentagon budget, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzC5ow3ytqs
Matt Taibbi: Biden's Neera Tanden Appointment Is A SCREW YOU To Bernie Supporters
Dec 6, 2020
The Hill
Author, Matt Taibbi, discusses how Joe Biden's nomination of Neera Tanden to lead the Office of Management and Budget is a slap in the face to Bernie Sanders supporters.
Here's another story that accuses her of proposing cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act.
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/joe-biden-neera-tanden-social-security-omb
Joe Biden’s Neera Tanden Pick Is Even Worse Than You Thought
BY WALKER BRAGMAN
Jacobin
11.30.2020
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/29/us/politics/biden-cabinet-tanden-rouse-adeyemo.html
Biden Expected to Name Top Economic Officials This Week
President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. is expected to nominate Neera Tanden, a divisive figure within the Democratic Party, to lead the budget office. He also named an all-female communications staff.
By Alan Rappeport and Jim Tankersley
The New York Times
Updated Dec. 3, 2020
But they could fall short of hopes within the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, which has been frustrated that their views are not being sufficiently represented in early personnel decisions. In particular, the decision to select Ms. Tanden, a divisive and partisan figure in the Democratic Party, could culminate in an intraparty fight, as well as a confirmation battle.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/30/bernie-supporters-seethes-neera-tanden-441603
Bernieworld seethes over Tanden as OMB nominee
To former Sanders staffers and allies, Tanden is one of the Democratic elites who helped sink his 2016 campaign behind the scenes.
By HOLLY OTTERBEIN
Politico
11/30/2020
Progressives have been able to live with most of Joe Biden’s Cabinet picks.
But to many of Sen. Bernie Sanders’ staunchest supporters, Biden’s decision to tap Hillary Clinton loyalist Neera Tanden to lead the Office of Management and Budget is just too much — the equivalent of rubbing salt in the wound.
-- Nbauman ( talk) 20:30, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
Someone wikilinked this phrase to Universal healthcare, but that article has nothing about it. In fact, Multi-payer healthcare is a re-direct to Single-payer healthcare, a page that in fact says nothing about multi-payer. Surely there should be some information somewhere about what Tanden prefers to single-payer. HouseOfChange ( talk) 22:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
I (and others) have tried a couple of times to include a section on her conflict with Matt Bruenig and it keeps getting reverted with the suggestion it is minor and unimportant. If I wasn't assuming good intentions I'd suspect someone of making a dedicated effort to prevent the subject from being mentioned. This conflict is central to understanding Progressives objection to Ms. Tanden, which is a source of a great deal of coverage about her. I would like to achieve consensus that this conflict IS significant enough to include here. Litch ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:04, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Twenty-Sixty-two recently added text calling Tanden a "centrist" that is attributed to the following source:
I have two potential issues with this, one nitpicky and one not. The nitpicky issue is that the relevant portion of source says Sanders-aligned progressives have for years been critical of Tanden's centrist politics …
, which could be taken as a characterization of Sanders supporters' views and not Business Insider's views. The second is that there is no consensus at
WP:RSP about the
reliability of
Business Insider. Of course, an absence of consensus is just as much support for inclusion as non-inclusion, so I'm not sure what to do. I am personally wary about including this, but wanted to see what others think.
AleatoryPonderings (
???) (
!!!) 17:25, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
I personally would not include for the reasons you noted. More reputable/trustworthy sources have generally tended to describe her as liberal or center-left, not centrist User1956a ( talk) 02:07, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
Numerous reliable sources exist to support Tanden being categorized as an American conspiracy theorist. The conspiracy theorist label has been applied to various members of Congress and the threshold for the label is rather low. For example, John Barrasso is labeled an American conspiracy theorist based off a single Washington Post article describing his support for what is described as a conspiracy theory. Tanden has been cited by at least three reliable media sources for support of what is described as an "unverified conspiracy theory" as well as by Glenn Greenwald (who is reliably cited numerous times in this article). 173.63.84.145 ( talk) 16:01, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Especially since the tweets in question were phrased as questions User1956a ( talk) 02:09, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
Here's a good summary of the progressive case against Tanden for serving corporate influences. The Hill, like Politico, is a WP:RS, and although this may be an editorial, it is heavily documented with other WP:RS. But even if it is an editorial, it represents a widespread-enough POV to give it WP:WEIGHT. This piece also goes into CAP's and Tanden's relations with Bernie Sanders, AIPAC, Michael Bloomberg, and foreign countries that were hoping to use CAP to influence the upcoming Hillary Clinton administration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHoAItMg3IU&list=PLLri3HDD8DQu-P7ula7Wfo7SKzP7MQ8gE&index=2
Krystal Ball: NO ONE Should Vote For Neera Tanden, Hillary's Corrupt Hatchet Woman
The Hill
Feb 10, 2021
Krystal Ball reacts to the confirmation hearings for Neera Tanden.
"Nera's long record of selling out to corporate interests..."
New York Times' Ken Vogel documented some of that hypocrisy noting that while Nera claims to abhor the influence of corporate special interest in politics now, she was happy to take checks for her think tank the Center for American Progress or CAP from Amazon Facebook Google Bank of America Wells Fargo etc. etc. etc. To his credit Senator Josh Hawley actually bothered to raise these concerns:
Josh Hawley: $665,000 I think from the personal foundation of Mr Zuckerberg, uh millions of dollars from Wall Street financiers, big banks, foreign governments, Silicon Valley, a million dollars from the managing partner at Bain Capital, two and a half million dollars from the UAE, that was between 2016 and 2018. Given this record uh how can you ensure us that you'll work to see that the Silicon Valley and Wall Street firms don't exercise undue influence, frankly, influence that they've already got in the making of government policy and the control of our economy? I mean what, how can you assure us that you're going to be an independent actor when you've been so close to them to have raised so much money over all these years?
Krystal Ball: There is no good reason to confirm one of the worst actors in Washington and one of the most devoted enemies of the political left.
Here's the source from Kenneth Vogel, which includes a table of CAP's contributions:
https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1359204114211692545
Kenneth P. Vogel
@kenvogel
NEERA TANDEN, today: “…corporate special interests have too much power in our discourse.”
In 2019, under @NeeraTanden,
@amprog accepted $100k-$500k each from:
@Amazon
@Facebook
@Google
JP Morgan foundation
@Microsoft
-- Nbauman ( talk) 18:06, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
"a widespread-enough POV"as you claim, this should be no issue. AllegedlyHuman ( talk) 18:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
For the record, here's another WP:RS which argues that Tanden is not a progressive.
I would summarize this with something like:
Note the word "because". Gray is giving the reasons why she believes that way.
I'm posting it on Talk to hear any objections first.
https://www.democracynow.org/2020/12/2/biden_cabinet_picks Where Are the Progressives? Briahna Joy Gray on Neera Tanden & Other Biden Picks for Economic Team Democracy Now DECEMBER 02, 2020
While Tanden would be the first woman of color and the first South Asian woman in the role, critics oppose her organization’s cozy relationship with corporate funders, her record of antagonizing and undermining progressive Democrats, and her aggressive foreign policy positions. Briahna Joy Gray, former national press secretary for the Bernie Sanders 2020 presidential campaign, says there has been “a lot of emphasis on the identity of the individuals picked” for Biden’s incoming team, but representation alone is not enough. “Several of these individuals have real problems, and none of them truly represent a progressive in the mindset of most Americans, especially those who identified with Bernie Sanders.”
-- Nbauman ( talk) 21:10, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
There is no consensus on the reliability of Democracy Now!. Most editors consider Democracy Now! a partisan source whose statements should be attributed.The Neera Tanden page should not and will not be a place to pile on opposition research. KidAd talk 21:14, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Since there is significant controversy surrounding her possible appointment, there should be a section discussing the issue. She has issued a public apology for past partisan statements and that needs to be mentioned in this article, as it is also her most newsworthy accomplishment thus far. 2601:182:4381:E60:E4D7:59E5:6C71:33A7 ( talk) 01:57, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Beware of acute manipulation and activism from Tanden "controversy" spin doctors. As above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.33.183 ( talk) 15:30, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
I've made some edits because this entry still is biased and not NPOV. I clarified the statement that simply stated that Tanden had punched a man. This was a very misleading way to phrase it with no further context. First, in the article, it was stated that a source said she punched him in the chest. Any ordinary person reading the statement that she punched someone would think it was to the face, and I suspect that's exactly why it was phrased that way. Second, when introducing such a claim, it behooves the author to include any response to that incident from the person being accused. Otherwise, we're just putting together a case against them and removing any nuance. Tanden stated that she pushed him in the chest. While we can debate whether she should have done that to someone, I think it's clear that it's very different from what the editor was trying to imply. The original version was simply intentionally misleading. I also removed a tag clause stating that Hillary Clinton's policy was unpopular. It's enough to explain the incident to say that the reporter asked her a question about it. Stating that the policy was unpopular, even if clarifying which group it was unpopular with biases readers to also see the policy as unpopular. 97.114.183.113 ( talk) 07:26, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Jonathunder RS say that Tanden's request caused the withdrawal. Most consider that fact important enough to include in their headlines, that important fact deserves to be mentioned in the lead.
Tanden's decision is much more relevant to this article than the precise date of the withdrawal or the complex reasons behind it. Given your edit summary point that "It's often a polite fiction that nominations are withdrawn at someone's request", [6] Wikipedia should not give implicit support to the "polite fiction" interpretation which is not the case here. HouseOfChange ( talk) 01:13, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
The Podesta emails hack is in a section about CAP, but it belongs instead with the 2016 presidential election campaigns. Wikileaks dropped the private Podesta emails (spearfished by Russian team Fancy Bear) with a tweet referencing Podesta's role as Hillary's campaign chairman, a half hour after Trump's Access Hollywood recording was published. [7] The point for Wikileaks of embarrassing Tanden as well as Podesta was their connection to the Clinton campaign, not their connection to CAP. HouseOfChange ( talk) 18:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I heard her on NPR today ( http://www.npr.org/2015/06/12/413849106/hillary-clinton-to-address-economic-issues-in-campaign-speech) and was astonished to learn that she is 35 years old. Her voice is that of a 6 year old. --- Dagme ( talk) 16:47, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
The most interesting thing about Tanden, I think, is that she shows the debate within the Democratic Party, on appointing minorities vs. white guys, or not attacking Bernie Sanders,l for example. Much of this came out in Wikileaks in more detail than you usually get in politics. I think we should have more of it in the article. -- Nbauman ( talk) 21:12, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
The section presents three different attempts to use Neera Tanden's stolen private emails to attack her. None of these attempts was particularly astute or on target, but Wikipedia is currently promoting them just as the Clinton-attacking team wanted to see them used, but omits context in which her emails were sent.
I am going to shorten this section drastically (WP:UNDUE) and change the POV title "Wikileaks revelations" to something more neutral. The point of this biography is to provide encyclopedic information to people who want to learn more about Neera Tanden, not to provide a COATRACK for people who hope to use it to embarrass her. HouseOfChange ( talk) 03:05, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
This April 27, 2018 BuzzFeed article provides context and NPOV account of a recent story that Aheezau wants to see added: [2] Here is a quote from that story: "In an all-staff meeting on Wednesday, Tanden named one of the women who reported Strong "unintentionally," according to a CAP spokesperson. But the name disclosure left some staffers questioning Tanden's ability to handle issues of sexual harassment at the organization."
This story belongs in the Center for American Progress article, but I am not sure Tanden's blunder in a staff meeting is going to be important enough to her career to be added to this article. What do others think? HouseOfChange ( talk) 16:19, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
There's a revert war going on the heading of the page over this phrase. I find the characterization to be non-controversial and sourced, but perhaps it would be worded in a more neutral manner? I think it's an important detail because it gives context to her activities post-Obama. @ User:Farlandia, what's your concern? Jonathan Williams ( talk)
In a 30-minute phone interview with The New Republic, Tanden stood by the quality of CAP’s work and the organization’s ability to push a diverse set of progressive ideas, pointing to CAP proposals like paid family leave, which were adopted by Sanders and not Clinton. She noted CAP’s work on issues like income inequality, foreign policy, and education, some of which have not been picked up by Clinton...
This article is seeing a surge of vandalism, probably as a result of a letter written by Bernie Sanders that called out CAP and Tanden saying she "repeatedly calls for unity while simultaneously maligning my staff and supporters and belittling progressive ideas." It would be good if the article could be semi-protected for a week or so, so we don't have to clean up after edits such as "her masterful ability to troll earned her the epithet “Scumbag Neera”" snd "She is best known for her attacks against healthcare and working mothers on welfare." 02:22, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
"She was described as a "hawkish". In September 2013"
Reference? --- Dagme ( talk) 15:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia follows what reliable sources say. The article about Center for American Progress does plenty of deep diving into its politics and what critics say about it. But there is no excuse for censoring from the lead of the article that it is widely regarded as "liberal" and/or "progressive." For example: NYT "the Center for American Progress, the progressive think tank", Detroit News "Center for American Progress, a progressive policy think tank.", The Hill: "liberal think tank Center for American Progress". HouseOfChange ( talk) 01:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
I agree with this, there is no question that CAP is widely seen as liberal/progressive User1956a ( talk) 21:24, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
The recent additions made concerning foreign policy have been tendentious and hostile rather than neutral. If the leaked email - which did not lead to her or CAP endorsing the position she inquired about - is deemed by the majority to be crucial to describing Tanden’s views (I don’t thing it is a good representation of her views at all, especially because she has repeatedly clarified that she does not hold this position), it needs to be kept in a more neutral and less openly biased tone. Repeated edits to reverse it to a more leading description of her position do not seem to be in keeping with Wikipedia’s mission User1956a ( talk) 23:10, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
I restored the wholesale deletion of the paragraph so that people can make an effort at presenting the material from an NPOV. Jonathan Williams ( talk) 17:30, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
I would argue if we include a reference to her Libya email, we should make it clear that this was a question she asked one single time, that she has made no similar foreign policy statements, and that she has expressed regret about asking this question. We should take care not to present it as “her foreign policy views“, as the original addition did, because there is no evidence this is an accurate reflection of her overall views.
I also agree that removing the paragraph about CAP’s donors is the right move as it is not relevant to Tanden’s political views. User1956a ( talk) 21:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
I personally do not think a question from a single email that had literally no impact on her or CAP’s argued position needs to be mentioned in her Wikipedia article at all, but once again if the majority thinks it is relevant enough to be included, we need to take great care to accurately convey the context and her statements expressing regret for even asking about this User1956a ( talk) 21:27, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Flaughtin: I agree 100%. I personally think, given Tanden’s own explanation and the hostile (to her) lean of the sources we should not include this at all, especially because it does not reflect her views on foreign policy. If we choose to include it at all, we have to take great care how to present it accurately and in a non-biased non-tendentious fashion. User1956a ( talk) 17:30, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
Since this topic is coming up again with recent edits: in my opinion it is not appropriate to include the leaked Libya email issue in the Political Views section, since those are demonstrably not Tanden’s political views, as she has repeatedly clarified.
I have also not yet seen evidence why this should be included at all, since it does not in my opinion rise to the level of relevance for her career to be part of her Wikipedia entry User1956a ( talk) 23:14, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
I want to repeat my suggestion that because of the repeated vandalism and hostile/misleading/tendentious edits to this page, all major changes or additions to the page should be drafted and discussed here before being published. This will ensure that the tone of the article remains neutral/objective and the content appropriate User1956a ( talk) 23:37, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Everyone here except for @ Jonathan Williams: argued against including the reference to the Libya email, I do not see how that justifies his repeated attempts to singlehandedly include them anyway. @ HouseOfChange: suggested reaching a consensus here first, which we have not done. User1956a ( talk) 00:10, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
I propose we address the Libya comments separately – the above discussion also related to CAP donors and other parts things that have been mangled by your continued one-sided policing of discussion. No one else has specifically addressed the Libya comments other than us. Jonathan Williams ( talk) 03:32, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Well @ HouseOfChange: has stated views on re the Libya email and so has @ Flaughtin:, both in my opinion clearly against including it User1956a ( talk) 03:43, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
There has to be some standard as to what can be called a person's political views, and I don't see how a single question could meet any standard. Especially since she's flat out said that's not her position! Bewildered Oregonian ( talk) 04:33, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Aren't political views sections only for articles of actual politicians? She is a strategist, is she not? ⌚️ ( talk) 21:33, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Given the level of vandalism this page receives, I suggest we don’t allow new sections or major changes without first going through the talk page process User1956a ( talk) 15:26, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
why wont user1956a allow a single piece of negative information? Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:44, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
I can think of at least three off the top of my head:
1. Calling for Libya to repay the US for the invasion
2. Getting Matt Bruenig fired for calling her a "scumbag"
3. This latest sexual harassment stuff.
I came here to refresh myself on these and could not find anything on them. (Comment above by IP [3]
So HouseOfChange has a history of consistently removing all controversies related to all political figures they have personal admiration for. This is not how Wikipedia works. I added information about the sexual harassment stuff, and they deleted it instantly, and called for me to be banned from editing altogether, this despite the fact that I used multiple credible sources, including reporting from the Center For American Progress (where the controversy happened) journalistic arm, "ThinkProgress".
You should be banned from editing if your only goal here is to shove things down the memory hole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aheezau ( talk • contribs) 05:37, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Strongly agree! Seriously, the absence of controversies renders this article useless for anyone who actually wants to know what a person or an organization is all about. I thought "Controversies" was pretty standard as a section in biographies of living persons. When someone is professionally involved in political faction-fights, their omission is ridiculous. I've encountered dozens of criticisms and controversies concerning Ms Tanden while trying to follow American politics from abroad by means of skimming internet news and half-listening to panels and commentaries. I was never able to get a clear understanding of what it was about, other than its having something to do with her upholding Hillary Clinton's brand of corporate centrism—so I came here to review the basics, and found no clues, just the usual claim made by such people to being "progressive" and so forth. Surely someone knowledgable is capable of explaining Tanden's positions and the argumentation around them? Also, there seems to be a pattern in both this and the related article about her CAP PAC, of referring to any kind of criticism as an "attack" without any suggestion of substantive issues involved — as if it's all gratuitous and without merit, perhaps from hate groups. I'm not suggesting the article should be hostile or dismissive; it would be great to see some substantive and reasonably respectful summaries of both sides of various controversies so readers can make up their own minds. That would certainly show more respect for Ms Tanden than the current puff-piece. Do you believe she really wants to be written up as if she were a professional hostess for debutante parties, or a spokeswoman for a harmless ineffectual charity? If she does, she surely should have chosen some such line of work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.74.218 ( talk) 12:46, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
I agree, Neera Tanden is a controversial figure and her reputation as a "progressive" is highly debated. For example, she is famous for criticizing the progressive platform of Bernie Sanders (the most progressive platform in mainstream American politics). She has also assaulted a journalist for asking questions about the Iraq War. It's a serious offense, relevant to her career in politics, and should not be omitted. Yet it has been deleted from her Wikipedia page. That's not right. -- Ummyaaaa ( talk) 18:56, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
Since there is an entire cottage industry out there manufacturing attacks on Tanden, misrepresenting her, or blowing her comments or actions out of prop, I am firmly siding with HouseOfChange. It’s a Wikipedia article. Unless you all plan to email Tanden and get her to tell her side of the story so it can be included, we shouldn’t include attacks either. Let me put it this way: the Wikipedia entries of a lot of more prominent and more "controversial" individuals do not have sections devoted to "controversies", this shouldn't be any different here just because the people with a grudge against Tanden happen to be Very Online. User1956a ( talk) 17:58, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
"Not liking Bernie Sanders" does not mean her Wikipedia page has to include smears of her. This is personality cult level stuff. User1956a ( talk) 00:03, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
The fact that the above unsigned user was unable to find any details on controversies surrounding her, and in fact found a description of them incomprehensible, tells you how valid they are. Disagreeing with Bernie Sanders is not a controversy. Bewildered Oregonian ( talk) 04:30, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
user1956a: why are you defending neera tanden so hard? its pretty clear that you have lost your objectivity. Almost Every single person involved in politics has controversy surrounding them. Almost every single one of those people have sections on wikipedia regarding controversies. why are you advocating so strongly to not include controversies for neera when they are included for everybody else? citing factual evidence of wrongdoing is not negative Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:40, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
there are no controversies addressed in the article because you removed all of them. if there was actually a proper attention to her controversies there would be a whole dedicated section to them. from the 2016 aftermath, the 2008 reporter incident, sexual assault allegation leak, etc. It is pretty clear you have lost your objectivity when you say that a controversy section is not relevant or appropriate when i can list 4 significant controversies relevant to her political view and career. Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:50, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
you didnt address my valid point that there are enough controversies to validate a controversy section. especially since similar sections are so prominent amongst political figures and commentators. But why would you address that since you lost you objectivity and are incapable of acknowledging negative information about neera? your 24/7 support of neera by removing any negative information proves that. Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:59, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
Tanden supported Hillary Clinton's 2008 bid for the presidency and remained her close ally in 2016. Many supporters of Bernie Sanders strongly criticize Tanden and CAP; the NYT goes so far as to call it "enmity." [1] Tanden online is in frequent disputes with what her mom refers to as "Bernie brothers". [1] Dislike of Tanden and CAP runs so deep among Sanders supporters that he uses attacks on them in fund-raising emails. [2]
This article is repeatedly the target of editors who want to see Sanders' team criticisms expressed in Wikipedia's voice. It would be good if instead the article could describe the controversy itself in an NPOV way. (HouseOfChange said this but forgot to sign it.)
it is impossible to address the controversy without appearing to be negatively inclined towards tanden. it is also impossible to properly discuss neera tanden without addressing the controversy. Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:25, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
user1956a neera tandens clear and obvious work to criticize and attack bernie sanders and his supporters is absolutely relevant to both 2016 and 2020 elections, and the 2016 aftermath. saying otherwise is delusional. Jomalleyp ( talk) 21:46, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
website: politico article title: Sanders’ clash with liberal think tank highlights divides in Democratic Party author: Katie Galioto Jomalleyp ( talk) 22:25, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
user1956a defense of neera tanden is clearly partisan. i strongly suggest you carefully review any suggestions from someone with a clear loss of objectivity Jomalleyp ( talk) 22:26, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
I would consider this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/941634069 way less objective than any edit I have ever made or proposed User1956a ( talk) 22:27, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
clearly i made a joke as my first edit on my first day, but what about the subsequent edits with clearly valid and relevant npov factual information? like these: New changes since new information wont be allowed to be posted no matter how relevant, factual, or how many cited sources: Despite labeling herself as a progressive liberal, she is a controversial figure among other progressive liberals. Source: current affairs
Despite supporting universal healthcare, many progressives have criticized Tanden for not supporting single payer universal healthcare. source: free beacon
In 2008, Neera Tanden encountered criticism when she pushed Faiz Shakir, a reporter who asked Neera Tanden a question about Hillary Clinton and the Iraq War. source:observer
Jomalleyp ( talk) 22:32, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
Current Affairs is run by a Bernie supporter who vehemently hates Tanden, Free Beacon and Observer are conservative publications with a clear bias against her as well. Calling her a “alt-right-wing war hawk” is not a joke but rather an attempt to use Wikipedia as a vehicle for personal animosity and exactly the kind of thing I have tried to guard this article against. User1956a ( talk) 22:43, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
References
Ms. Tanden now leads the Center for American Progress, Mr. Shakir runs Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign and the enmity between the two camps burst into the open last weekend.
During the rally Sunday, Mr. Sanders's campaign also sent out a fund-raising email to supporters off its dust-up with the Center for American Progress.
But even now, a month after the Vermont senator pledged his sincere if grumpy Philly fealty to the nominee, Tanden frets that the attacks Sanders made on Clinton during the primary have done irreparable damage by eroding trust and feeding Donald Trump's Crooked Hillary crusade.
Three years after a bitter face-off with Hillary Clinton, Sen. Bernie Sanders still sees her political machine working against him. Clinton may not be running for president, but the world of staffers and institutions that buoyed her presidential run, Sanders says, has a new goal: to quash his progressive vision for America.
This was not a controversy in 2008. We know about this utterly trivial event only from a NYT article published in 2019. [4]
This event is being discussed in 2019 only as part of the ongoing bad feeling between Neera Tanden and Bernie Sanders supporters including Faiz Shakir. HouseOfChange ( talk) 23:16, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
In my opinion this event, which as HouseOfChange mentioned was first discussed as a second hand report in the NYT in 2019, is not relevant to understanding Tanden’s career or political views and does not warrant being mentioned in the article User1956a ( talk) 23:21, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
I think so far nobody has disagreed that the conflict should be addressed in some way, without demonizing either side. The problem so far has been Sanders supporters trying to edit their POV into the narrative. I agree with HouseOfChange that we should draft a section that describes the conflict in a neutral, NPOV way. I do not think this incident specifically belongs in the article, specifically not in the career section User1956a ( talk) 01:03, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Tanden has 24 years of notable, and well-sourced professional ties to the Clintons, from a 22 year old working on BC's 1992 run, to, as a 46 year-old advising HRC during her 2016 POTUS run, with various work in between in the BC WH, HRC's senate office, and her 2008 nomination bid. Would any editors dispute this, or believe its in any way controversial, or that it hasn't been responsibly covered here as per WP:BLP? Please discuss here if you believe the current prose is problematic. Critical Chris ( talk)
I personally don’t think her close association is disputed or controversial in the least and as far as I have seen Tanden has never denied or disputed it herself.
My only remaining comment concerns the word “largely”, as in “her career has largely been defined“ by work for the Clintons. She worked for the Obama administration and campaign and has worked for CAP almost since its beginning, which are important career elements independent of the Clintons. I would argue “her career has in part been defined” is more accurate, given the totality of her career trajectory. User1956a ( talk) 15:39, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
This article https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house/think-tank-post-puts-spotlight-on-veteran-democratic-operative-neera-tanden/2011/11/01/gIQAn6fpjM_story.html emphasizes the prestige of the role as CAP president within the Democratic Party as a whole as well as her close association with Obama, who introduces her as a “friend”, which I think shows that she has had important career milestones independent of the Clintons. But I don’t actually have very strong feelings about this, I personally think “largely” is an exaggeration but this is not the hill I would die on, as her close ties to the Clintons are undisputed. User1956a ( talk) 16:26, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
The first sentence of the lede says Tanden is an American political consultant and lawyer
. But there is no reference to her work as a lawyer in the body. Has she worked as a lawyer, and if so is that work sufficiently defining to be in the article's first sentence?
AleatoryPonderings (
???) (
!!!) 23:49, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@ HouseOfChange: reverted the fragment, claiming WP:UNDUE:
Not sure how is this undue if she is clearly expressing her views on the subject. Let's not do things that might look like whitewashing. BeŻet ( talk) 15:00, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
To add to this article: her publicly stated position on potential cuts to Social Security and Medicare. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 23:09, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
… is she a
political consultant? I don't know of any clearly
WP:RS that refer to her as such, and I don't really know what to call a non-academic think tank person. Following
Susan Rice, I recently changed the lede of
Michèle Flournoy—also a think-tanker who's been in and out of government—to advisor
, which I thought was slightly better. Anyone have any ideas here?
AleatoryPonderings (
???) (
!!!) 18:24, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Could someone add the detail of her role in the closing of ThinkProgress and her views on a living wage. There is a connection and this has been some of the criticism of her should she take a position in Biden's White House. It relates to the unwillingness to pay the employees at ThinkProgress fair wages. 203.131.210.82 ( talk) 09:07, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
References
But the site, which is editorially independent from CAP, has struggled in recent years as advertising revenues have dried up and traffic has dipped...the site was facing a $3 million gulf between revenues and expenses in 2019, with $350,000 of it made up by a shortfall in ad revenue and nearly $180,000 of it coming from a drop in expected online contributions.
HouseOfChange ( talk) 03:15, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
The statement "She has also been the target of criticism by Sanders's supporters" is not supported by sources, which seems to be WP:SYNTH and WP:UNDUE.
When looking at the three sources:
Therefore, I would like to suggest we remove this statement, unless better sources are found. BeŻet ( talk) 23:41, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
FYI: I have tried twice recently to get this article semi-ed at WP:RFPP with no success. I don't know why; a quick look at the history reveals BLP violations and vandalism galore. I find this both concerning and exhausting. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 18:17, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Attempt to reach consensus on the inclusion of content related to leaked emails about Libya? - https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Neera_Tanden&type=revision&diff=940512694&oldid=940500705
We would be ascribing views to someone based on one single statement (in form of a question!) from a decade ago, something that is not backed up by her work or her other expressed views. User1956a ( talk) 03:56, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Is there any evidence she's ever advocated for this? Because a question isn't advocating for it. If we declare something to be a person's political views, we should have at least two incidents of it being mentioned at all, especially for a political figure who presumably talks about their views all the time. Bewildered Oregonian ( talk) 04:18, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
[a]lmost all editors consider The Intercept a biased source, so uses may need to be attributed. While Salon is not blacklisted,
[e]ditors consider Salon biased or opinionated, and its statements should be attributed.Assessments of CNN and WaPo are far more sanguine. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 02:47, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
I am inviting PailSimon and User1956a to contribute to this discussion, given their recent edits. AleatoryPonderings ( ???) ( !!!) 16:43, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
I’ve contributed here before; I maintain that a single email posing a question is not relevant if it does not lead to further statements and actions, which in her case I am not aware it did. If we are describing her political views, it should contain positions she actually holds User1956a ( talk) 12:47, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Here are some of the many stories on many WP:RSs about the conflict between Neera Tanden and people who identify and are described in the media as "progressives," and/or the "Bernie Sanders wing" of the Democratic party.
Matt Taibi and others argue that Tanden is not a progressive, because she raises money among corporate interests such as health insurance companies and defense contractors, that are opposed to progressive policies such as single payer health care, a military approach to foriegn policy, reducing the Pentagon budget, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzC5ow3ytqs
Matt Taibbi: Biden's Neera Tanden Appointment Is A SCREW YOU To Bernie Supporters
Dec 6, 2020
The Hill
Author, Matt Taibbi, discusses how Joe Biden's nomination of Neera Tanden to lead the Office of Management and Budget is a slap in the face to Bernie Sanders supporters.
Here's another story that accuses her of proposing cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act.
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/joe-biden-neera-tanden-social-security-omb
Joe Biden’s Neera Tanden Pick Is Even Worse Than You Thought
BY WALKER BRAGMAN
Jacobin
11.30.2020
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/29/us/politics/biden-cabinet-tanden-rouse-adeyemo.html
Biden Expected to Name Top Economic Officials This Week
President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. is expected to nominate Neera Tanden, a divisive figure within the Democratic Party, to lead the budget office. He also named an all-female communications staff.
By Alan Rappeport and Jim Tankersley
The New York Times
Updated Dec. 3, 2020
But they could fall short of hopes within the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, which has been frustrated that their views are not being sufficiently represented in early personnel decisions. In particular, the decision to select Ms. Tanden, a divisive and partisan figure in the Democratic Party, could culminate in an intraparty fight, as well as a confirmation battle.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/30/bernie-supporters-seethes-neera-tanden-441603
Bernieworld seethes over Tanden as OMB nominee
To former Sanders staffers and allies, Tanden is one of the Democratic elites who helped sink his 2016 campaign behind the scenes.
By HOLLY OTTERBEIN
Politico
11/30/2020
Progressives have been able to live with most of Joe Biden’s Cabinet picks.
But to many of Sen. Bernie Sanders’ staunchest supporters, Biden’s decision to tap Hillary Clinton loyalist Neera Tanden to lead the Office of Management and Budget is just too much — the equivalent of rubbing salt in the wound.
-- Nbauman ( talk) 20:30, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
Someone wikilinked this phrase to Universal healthcare, but that article has nothing about it. In fact, Multi-payer healthcare is a re-direct to Single-payer healthcare, a page that in fact says nothing about multi-payer. Surely there should be some information somewhere about what Tanden prefers to single-payer. HouseOfChange ( talk) 22:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
I (and others) have tried a couple of times to include a section on her conflict with Matt Bruenig and it keeps getting reverted with the suggestion it is minor and unimportant. If I wasn't assuming good intentions I'd suspect someone of making a dedicated effort to prevent the subject from being mentioned. This conflict is central to understanding Progressives objection to Ms. Tanden, which is a source of a great deal of coverage about her. I would like to achieve consensus that this conflict IS significant enough to include here. Litch ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:04, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Twenty-Sixty-two recently added text calling Tanden a "centrist" that is attributed to the following source:
I have two potential issues with this, one nitpicky and one not. The nitpicky issue is that the relevant portion of source says Sanders-aligned progressives have for years been critical of Tanden's centrist politics …
, which could be taken as a characterization of Sanders supporters' views and not Business Insider's views. The second is that there is no consensus at
WP:RSP about the
reliability of
Business Insider. Of course, an absence of consensus is just as much support for inclusion as non-inclusion, so I'm not sure what to do. I am personally wary about including this, but wanted to see what others think.
AleatoryPonderings (
???) (
!!!) 17:25, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
I personally would not include for the reasons you noted. More reputable/trustworthy sources have generally tended to describe her as liberal or center-left, not centrist User1956a ( talk) 02:07, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
Numerous reliable sources exist to support Tanden being categorized as an American conspiracy theorist. The conspiracy theorist label has been applied to various members of Congress and the threshold for the label is rather low. For example, John Barrasso is labeled an American conspiracy theorist based off a single Washington Post article describing his support for what is described as a conspiracy theory. Tanden has been cited by at least three reliable media sources for support of what is described as an "unverified conspiracy theory" as well as by Glenn Greenwald (who is reliably cited numerous times in this article). 173.63.84.145 ( talk) 16:01, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Especially since the tweets in question were phrased as questions User1956a ( talk) 02:09, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
Here's a good summary of the progressive case against Tanden for serving corporate influences. The Hill, like Politico, is a WP:RS, and although this may be an editorial, it is heavily documented with other WP:RS. But even if it is an editorial, it represents a widespread-enough POV to give it WP:WEIGHT. This piece also goes into CAP's and Tanden's relations with Bernie Sanders, AIPAC, Michael Bloomberg, and foreign countries that were hoping to use CAP to influence the upcoming Hillary Clinton administration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHoAItMg3IU&list=PLLri3HDD8DQu-P7ula7Wfo7SKzP7MQ8gE&index=2
Krystal Ball: NO ONE Should Vote For Neera Tanden, Hillary's Corrupt Hatchet Woman
The Hill
Feb 10, 2021
Krystal Ball reacts to the confirmation hearings for Neera Tanden.
"Nera's long record of selling out to corporate interests..."
New York Times' Ken Vogel documented some of that hypocrisy noting that while Nera claims to abhor the influence of corporate special interest in politics now, she was happy to take checks for her think tank the Center for American Progress or CAP from Amazon Facebook Google Bank of America Wells Fargo etc. etc. etc. To his credit Senator Josh Hawley actually bothered to raise these concerns:
Josh Hawley: $665,000 I think from the personal foundation of Mr Zuckerberg, uh millions of dollars from Wall Street financiers, big banks, foreign governments, Silicon Valley, a million dollars from the managing partner at Bain Capital, two and a half million dollars from the UAE, that was between 2016 and 2018. Given this record uh how can you ensure us that you'll work to see that the Silicon Valley and Wall Street firms don't exercise undue influence, frankly, influence that they've already got in the making of government policy and the control of our economy? I mean what, how can you assure us that you're going to be an independent actor when you've been so close to them to have raised so much money over all these years?
Krystal Ball: There is no good reason to confirm one of the worst actors in Washington and one of the most devoted enemies of the political left.
Here's the source from Kenneth Vogel, which includes a table of CAP's contributions:
https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1359204114211692545
Kenneth P. Vogel
@kenvogel
NEERA TANDEN, today: “…corporate special interests have too much power in our discourse.”
In 2019, under @NeeraTanden,
@amprog accepted $100k-$500k each from:
@Amazon
@Facebook
@Google
JP Morgan foundation
@Microsoft
-- Nbauman ( talk) 18:06, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
"a widespread-enough POV"as you claim, this should be no issue. AllegedlyHuman ( talk) 18:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
For the record, here's another WP:RS which argues that Tanden is not a progressive.
I would summarize this with something like:
Note the word "because". Gray is giving the reasons why she believes that way.
I'm posting it on Talk to hear any objections first.
https://www.democracynow.org/2020/12/2/biden_cabinet_picks Where Are the Progressives? Briahna Joy Gray on Neera Tanden & Other Biden Picks for Economic Team Democracy Now DECEMBER 02, 2020
While Tanden would be the first woman of color and the first South Asian woman in the role, critics oppose her organization’s cozy relationship with corporate funders, her record of antagonizing and undermining progressive Democrats, and her aggressive foreign policy positions. Briahna Joy Gray, former national press secretary for the Bernie Sanders 2020 presidential campaign, says there has been “a lot of emphasis on the identity of the individuals picked” for Biden’s incoming team, but representation alone is not enough. “Several of these individuals have real problems, and none of them truly represent a progressive in the mindset of most Americans, especially those who identified with Bernie Sanders.”
-- Nbauman ( talk) 21:10, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
There is no consensus on the reliability of Democracy Now!. Most editors consider Democracy Now! a partisan source whose statements should be attributed.The Neera Tanden page should not and will not be a place to pile on opposition research. KidAd talk 21:14, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Since there is significant controversy surrounding her possible appointment, there should be a section discussing the issue. She has issued a public apology for past partisan statements and that needs to be mentioned in this article, as it is also her most newsworthy accomplishment thus far. 2601:182:4381:E60:E4D7:59E5:6C71:33A7 ( talk) 01:57, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Beware of acute manipulation and activism from Tanden "controversy" spin doctors. As above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.33.183 ( talk) 15:30, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
I've made some edits because this entry still is biased and not NPOV. I clarified the statement that simply stated that Tanden had punched a man. This was a very misleading way to phrase it with no further context. First, in the article, it was stated that a source said she punched him in the chest. Any ordinary person reading the statement that she punched someone would think it was to the face, and I suspect that's exactly why it was phrased that way. Second, when introducing such a claim, it behooves the author to include any response to that incident from the person being accused. Otherwise, we're just putting together a case against them and removing any nuance. Tanden stated that she pushed him in the chest. While we can debate whether she should have done that to someone, I think it's clear that it's very different from what the editor was trying to imply. The original version was simply intentionally misleading. I also removed a tag clause stating that Hillary Clinton's policy was unpopular. It's enough to explain the incident to say that the reporter asked her a question about it. Stating that the policy was unpopular, even if clarifying which group it was unpopular with biases readers to also see the policy as unpopular. 97.114.183.113 ( talk) 07:26, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Jonathunder RS say that Tanden's request caused the withdrawal. Most consider that fact important enough to include in their headlines, that important fact deserves to be mentioned in the lead.
Tanden's decision is much more relevant to this article than the precise date of the withdrawal or the complex reasons behind it. Given your edit summary point that "It's often a polite fiction that nominations are withdrawn at someone's request", [6] Wikipedia should not give implicit support to the "polite fiction" interpretation which is not the case here. HouseOfChange ( talk) 01:13, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
The Podesta emails hack is in a section about CAP, but it belongs instead with the 2016 presidential election campaigns. Wikileaks dropped the private Podesta emails (spearfished by Russian team Fancy Bear) with a tweet referencing Podesta's role as Hillary's campaign chairman, a half hour after Trump's Access Hollywood recording was published. [7] The point for Wikileaks of embarrassing Tanden as well as Podesta was their connection to the Clinton campaign, not their connection to CAP. HouseOfChange ( talk) 18:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)