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Looking at reliable sources, how should we describe the political position of Frances National Rally?
Bacondrum ( talk) 22:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Academic sources
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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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News sources
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1.
https://www.europe1.fr/politique/Departementales-le-FN-en-tete-des-intentions-de-vote-782020
2.
https://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/departementales/2015/03/13/01054-20150313ARTFIG00369-fn-l-evolution-sociologique-d-un-parti-attrape-tout.php
3.
https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2017/02/16/l-economie-populiste-attrape-tout-de-marine-le-pen_5080505_3232.html
4.
https://www.lejdd.fr/Elections/Cantonales-2011/Pour-Jerome-Fourquet-le-FN-est-un-parti-attrape-tout-290949-3223205
5.
https://www.lepoint.fr/politique/le-fn-le-parti-attrape-tout-21-11-2011-1398514_20.php
As well as radical right:
A. Gilles Ivaldi, « Le Front national français dans l’espace des droites radicales européennes », Pouvoirs, no 157, 18 avril 2016, p. 115-126 (ISSN 0152-0768, DOI 10.3917/pouv.157.0115, lire en ligne
B.
https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/fn/gregoire-kauffmann-le-fn-est-en-train-d-integrer-le-systeme_1548566.html
There are pages on the English Wikipedia for catch-all and radical right (Europe).
In response to Ezhao02 I think that page does a better description of describing radical right than I could. In so far as using the radical right label I'm not particularly sure either way, as I don't recall ever seeing this position used in the infobox in the English version of Wikipedia for political positioning.
There is also the option of having a link in the political position section of the infobox that just links to the political profile section of the article. Therefore offering neutrally and compromise by saying neither right-wing nor far-right and just letting people decide on their own. Helper201 ( talk) 19:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Undeniably far left parties involved in the recent assembly elections do not solely have 'far left' as their stated political stance. The fact that there is no acknowledgment that there is variation in the views of supporters of national rally is in and of itself bias. Gimla1 ( talk) 10:52, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
They are a syncretic party with left wing economics and have a history of having being a party of Third Position members. This means the party is syncretic, not far-right. It is no proof this party have any qualifiers for being far-right. All those accusations are outdated and was partly false even back then. Journalists describing them as far-right because they are anti immigration and associate with some far-right groups, some of which are mislabeled aswell is irellevant. They say themselves they are a party not on the left or right, its members have always been syncretic Third positionists. Their economic policy confirms this and they dont hold any anti-democratic or racist views anymore that would be enough to remove them from syncretic to far-right. If a party themselves are democratic, call themselves not on left and right and their policies match this and the party historically has been full of Third Position members and voters means the party is syncretic. Just because liberal media have a trend of labeling all culturally right-wing syncreticism like Alexander Dugin far-right or even fascists dont mean that is the fact. How the party and its base labels themselves and their policy to match is what decides a parties Position. Ghostangel1 ( talk) 18:22, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
They are mostly right anyway.
93.206.55.49 ( talk) 02:38, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
They are a syncretic party with left wing economics and have a history of having being a party of Third Position members. This means the party is syncretic, not far-right. It is no proof this party have any qualifiers for being far-right. All those accusations are outdated and was partly false even back then. Ghostangel1 ( talk) 18:16, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
"nationalist", "populist", "far-right"
Three negative terms in the first sentence. Even for the left-wing wikipedia a new low. Why is Melanchon and his truly far-left wing party not "socialist", "communist" and "far-left"?? Please get rid of the bias here. 62.226.75.127 ( talk) 21:15, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
I think the number of ideologies needs reducing. For starts, "Protectionism" isn't an ideology. Second, there aren't many references for "Anti-immigration" and "Sovereignty" to warrant being in it. These are my proposed ideologies:
ValenciaThunderbolt ( talk) 12:25, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
closely associated with nationalism & right-wing populism? Which is wholly true. Or that "anti-immigration" is
closely associated with nationalism & right-wing populism- which is rather favouring a euphemistic implication over the "elephant in the room", ie the thing most frequently noted about them, that they are "anti-immigration". Souverainism appears to be poorly sourced, it isn't a common term in the Anglosphere and again appears somewhat euphemistic. Pincrete ( talk) 15:04, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
This had been debated before, but it's been 2 years since the debate and I think Le Pen has moved the party more towards the Centre-Right Crainsaw ( talk) 19:56, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello all In the first para I have changed, "It has opposed the European Union" to "It supports reform of the European Union...". The paragraph is a summary of the NR's current policies and it is confusing and misleading to put one of its past policies in the same paragraph. Its past position on the EU is already adequately covered in the 4th para of the lead. I have also changed some clumsly wording: the NR doesn't have zero tolerance of law and order, it has zero tolerance of breaches of law and order. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin ( talk) 04:37, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
Hello all Most of this section is way out of date (sources dating from 2007-2015). I have updated some sections with new information and have cut or summarised some information which is no longer current. Given that there is already a section on the history of the party, there is probably scope for cutting some more of the information about the party's past political profile. I will work through the sections in the coming weeks whenever I get the chance. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin ( talk) 09:28, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
National Rally article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 180 days |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
National Rally has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Looking at reliable sources, how should we describe the political position of Frances National Rally?
Bacondrum ( talk) 22:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Academic sources
|
---|
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
|
News sources
|
---|
|
1.
https://www.europe1.fr/politique/Departementales-le-FN-en-tete-des-intentions-de-vote-782020
2.
https://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/departementales/2015/03/13/01054-20150313ARTFIG00369-fn-l-evolution-sociologique-d-un-parti-attrape-tout.php
3.
https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2017/02/16/l-economie-populiste-attrape-tout-de-marine-le-pen_5080505_3232.html
4.
https://www.lejdd.fr/Elections/Cantonales-2011/Pour-Jerome-Fourquet-le-FN-est-un-parti-attrape-tout-290949-3223205
5.
https://www.lepoint.fr/politique/le-fn-le-parti-attrape-tout-21-11-2011-1398514_20.php
As well as radical right:
A. Gilles Ivaldi, « Le Front national français dans l’espace des droites radicales européennes », Pouvoirs, no 157, 18 avril 2016, p. 115-126 (ISSN 0152-0768, DOI 10.3917/pouv.157.0115, lire en ligne
B.
https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/fn/gregoire-kauffmann-le-fn-est-en-train-d-integrer-le-systeme_1548566.html
There are pages on the English Wikipedia for catch-all and radical right (Europe).
In response to Ezhao02 I think that page does a better description of describing radical right than I could. In so far as using the radical right label I'm not particularly sure either way, as I don't recall ever seeing this position used in the infobox in the English version of Wikipedia for political positioning.
There is also the option of having a link in the political position section of the infobox that just links to the political profile section of the article. Therefore offering neutrally and compromise by saying neither right-wing nor far-right and just letting people decide on their own. Helper201 ( talk) 19:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Undeniably far left parties involved in the recent assembly elections do not solely have 'far left' as their stated political stance. The fact that there is no acknowledgment that there is variation in the views of supporters of national rally is in and of itself bias. Gimla1 ( talk) 10:52, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
They are a syncretic party with left wing economics and have a history of having being a party of Third Position members. This means the party is syncretic, not far-right. It is no proof this party have any qualifiers for being far-right. All those accusations are outdated and was partly false even back then. Journalists describing them as far-right because they are anti immigration and associate with some far-right groups, some of which are mislabeled aswell is irellevant. They say themselves they are a party not on the left or right, its members have always been syncretic Third positionists. Their economic policy confirms this and they dont hold any anti-democratic or racist views anymore that would be enough to remove them from syncretic to far-right. If a party themselves are democratic, call themselves not on left and right and their policies match this and the party historically has been full of Third Position members and voters means the party is syncretic. Just because liberal media have a trend of labeling all culturally right-wing syncreticism like Alexander Dugin far-right or even fascists dont mean that is the fact. How the party and its base labels themselves and their policy to match is what decides a parties Position. Ghostangel1 ( talk) 18:22, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
They are mostly right anyway.
93.206.55.49 ( talk) 02:38, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
They are a syncretic party with left wing economics and have a history of having being a party of Third Position members. This means the party is syncretic, not far-right. It is no proof this party have any qualifiers for being far-right. All those accusations are outdated and was partly false even back then. Ghostangel1 ( talk) 18:16, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
"nationalist", "populist", "far-right"
Three negative terms in the first sentence. Even for the left-wing wikipedia a new low. Why is Melanchon and his truly far-left wing party not "socialist", "communist" and "far-left"?? Please get rid of the bias here. 62.226.75.127 ( talk) 21:15, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
I think the number of ideologies needs reducing. For starts, "Protectionism" isn't an ideology. Second, there aren't many references for "Anti-immigration" and "Sovereignty" to warrant being in it. These are my proposed ideologies:
ValenciaThunderbolt ( talk) 12:25, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
closely associated with nationalism & right-wing populism? Which is wholly true. Or that "anti-immigration" is
closely associated with nationalism & right-wing populism- which is rather favouring a euphemistic implication over the "elephant in the room", ie the thing most frequently noted about them, that they are "anti-immigration". Souverainism appears to be poorly sourced, it isn't a common term in the Anglosphere and again appears somewhat euphemistic. Pincrete ( talk) 15:04, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
This had been debated before, but it's been 2 years since the debate and I think Le Pen has moved the party more towards the Centre-Right Crainsaw ( talk) 19:56, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Hello all In the first para I have changed, "It has opposed the European Union" to "It supports reform of the European Union...". The paragraph is a summary of the NR's current policies and it is confusing and misleading to put one of its past policies in the same paragraph. Its past position on the EU is already adequately covered in the 4th para of the lead. I have also changed some clumsly wording: the NR doesn't have zero tolerance of law and order, it has zero tolerance of breaches of law and order. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin ( talk) 04:37, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
Hello all Most of this section is way out of date (sources dating from 2007-2015). I have updated some sections with new information and have cut or summarised some information which is no longer current. Given that there is already a section on the history of the party, there is probably scope for cutting some more of the information about the party's past political profile. I will work through the sections in the coming weeks whenever I get the chance. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin ( talk) 09:28, 26 June 2023 (UTC)