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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article: You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive) You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. Further information The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are: Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive. Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required. With respect to the WP:1RR restriction: Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring. Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence. After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions. Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Based on the comment by the user, I can understand part of their confusion - it took me a while to figure out what an infobox titled "Palestinians" had to do with Nathalie Handal (I did finally figure it out, she's listed under Notable Palestinians). To me, that infobox should be converted to a navbox at the bottom of the page (it really is a navbox, just currently presented in infobox form). --- Barek ( talk • contribs) - 20:19, 19 March 2008 (UTC) reply

I agree; she is notable for her literary writing, and not as a Palestinian activist/state representative. Therefore the large "Palestinian" infobox seems undue to me too. Is there a smaller Palestine nav. box that we can use ?

That aside, the article can be considerably expanded based on available reliable sources. I'll try to do my bit during the next few days. Hope others can help. Abecedare ( talk) 21:06, 19 March 2008 (UTC) reply

FYI: I've proposed converting the Palestinians template to use the standard navbox format over at Template talk:Palestinians#proposed conversion of template to standard navbox format, and created a draft version for discussion. --- Barek ( talk • contribs) - 22:58, 19 March 2008 (UTC) reply

Great! For the moment I have removed the infobox, especially since (according to a ref I just added), Handal is an American with Pelstinian background. Once we have the navbox, I think it would be ok to add it here. Cheers. Abecedare ( talk) 23:13, 19 March 2008 (UTC) reply

At Wikipedia:COIN#Nathalie Handal I proposed that the Conflict of Interest complaint should be closed. The subject has not edited the article since 19 March. We still need a photo with proper copyright clearance; I left a note at User talk:NatHandal#Photo needed to see if she could help. EdJohnston ( talk) 00:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC) reply

Oh, I didn't realize the COI complaint was still open; it certainly should be closed in my view.

The license of the photograph that was added to the page is almost certainly problematic. Hopefully NatHandal will be willing to release a photograph for our use; we can also look for photographs with compatible licenses on flickr etc. Abecedare ( talk) 01:26, 30 March 2008 (UTC) reply

User:NatHandal has resumed making unexplained edits to the article. I withdraw my suggestion that we close the COI complaint. I left a note asking her to discuss her edits. EdJohnston ( talk) 16:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC) reply

• Folks, this is not a "COI issue", it's an article subject correcting or removing disputed information in a WP:BLP, which is absolutely fine. I'm validating formally that user:NatHandal is Nathalie Handal, but VRTS ticket #  2008040310022958 makes it pretty clear. Please be sensitive and help NatHandal to fix the issues she identifies, I will ask her to engage in discussion here. Thanks, Guy ( Help!) 15:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC) reply

Thanks to those who have responded to me ab out this, I also repost here by request a note from User:NatHandal in response to the OTS ticket:

Hello everyone. I am terribly sorry but I do not quite get how to respond to all of you and I hope this is the way. Until today, I did not know I had messages, otherwise, I would have answered... so please accept my apologies. And thank you for the email letting me know to check the discussion page.
I thank you so much for all of you amazing and hard work and truly appreciate your assistance.
I see you made the changes and I thank you. If you want any more explanation re my change request, I am happy to provide it. And re: your photo question/yes you can use it.
I will continue to try to navigate WIKI and answer all your questions. Again, thank you so very much. NatHandal

You can ref the above OTRS ticket as permission for the image, and if anyone wants to help Nat to get acquainted with Wikipedia and how to work with us, please do feel free to pitch in. Guy ( Help!) 11:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC) reply

"Kid gloves" were made from the skin of a young goat or lamb or similar. Such gloves were softer and finer than gloves made from harder leathers, and so became a symbol of elegance and gentility in the early 1800s. The term "handle with kid gloves" thus means to be very gentle or tactful.

Why are editors handling this subject (Handal) with kid gloves? It's sickening, unbecoming, and not of a "neutral tone". The article was riddled with conflicts of interest. "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a forum for advertising or self-promotion, or a vanity press. As such, it should contain only material that complies with its content policies, and Wikipedians must place the interests of the encyclopedia first. Any editor who gives priority to outside interests may be subject to a conflict of interest."

Henry Delforn ( talk) 04:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC) reply

The author has not edited this article since November, 2008. It's a fairly short article, and not too promotional. Could you be more specific about the problems that you see? EdJohnston ( talk) 18:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC) reply

The problems go back in time, per history. It was facinating to read and follow. I have a theory concerning wiki history: if analyzed fully, it can say alot about the personalities involved, revealing much more character that just talking to the parties. Anyway, the last problem corrected involved using a citation which was not an independent secondary source for the stated "facts". The citation was not only produced by the subject in trying to confirm the statement which was made originally in-part by the subject, but also, the citation had absolutely no content regarding the stated "facts" in question. The citation removed was downloaded and fully read to confirm that it was a completely inappropriate citation. I am not certain that I want to continue an in-depth inspection of all other citations and/or references. Perhaps over time we can discuss further edits, thanks for your interest. Henry Delforn ( talk) 22:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC) reply

Clarification. It has been correctly brought to my attention that the citation in question above is not what i thought it was. Indeed, the citation: "Handal, Nathalie (2004), My country, my words:Reflections on a life as a writer, in Darraj, Susan Muaddi, Scheherazade's Legacy: Arab and Arab American Women on Writing, Greenwood Publishing Group, pp. 37–48, ISBN  0275981762" can be easily and incorrectly looked up as: "Nathalie Handal - My country, my words:Reflections on a life as a writer" which is a different book source from ISBN  0275981762. These are two different books. The former has a 2001 copyright while the latter is 2004. The 2001 book is the source which i have been refering to above, not the 2004 copyright book. Henry Delforn ( talk) 22:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC) reply

NOTE: This post by NHANDAL Moved here from Help talk:Using talk pages by —  JohnFromPinckney ( talk) 17:17, 16 July 2010 (UTC) reply

Dear Editors,

I made some changes from the NHANDAL account because I was unable to get into this orginal account. Wiki has sent me a new password so I am back on this original account.

Thank you for your assistance. Nathalie NatHandal ( talk) 16:15, 16 July 2010 (UTC) reply

which one is she? i don't think i would use a photo of two people on an individual's blp. is the photo allowed to be cropped? if so, i can do that and re-add it. (but which one is she????) Soosim ( talk) 09:34, 23 March 2012 (UTC) reply

She's the one on the right. The image is licensed under CC-BY 2.0, so you can edit it all you want. Just keep it under the same license, link to the original photo, and credit the same author. Someguy1221 ( talk) 19:29, 24 March 2012 (UTC) reply

It doesn't have to be under the same license. If it did, it would be licensed as CC-BY-SA with the SA (share alike) indicating it would be the same license.-- Rockfang ( talk) 00:43, 25 March 2012 (UTC) reply

need i say more? Soosim ( talk) 17:28, 9 May 2012 (UTC) reply

Hello, Soosim. I can confirm by OTRS that the above account NatHandal is editing in good faith trying to correct and source some things. In particular, Nathalie Handal would make to make it clear that she identifies as French-American, not Haitian-American simply because she was of Haitian birth. References are here and here. NatHandal, I invite you to log-in and participate in this conversation to help the article improve. Keegan ( talk) 06:02, 11 May 2012 (UTC) reply

Thank you all for your time. "Poet and Playwright" is the best way to leave it. After all that's what's most important here. NatHandal ( talk)

Thank you for your patience and time, and to the editors watching the article. I hope this can resolve the situation for now, and welcome to Wikipeida, NatHandal. Keegan ( talk) 07:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC) reply

nathandal has been on wikipedia for year, has been warned and even sanctioned for extremely poor wiki behavior. it can not continue or the bans will get longer and harsher. oh, and bookslut is still not RS, but the washington post is. Soosim ( talk) 13:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC) reply

soosim, this is not exactly the way things have gone... some people are better at technology than others but I have tried my best to communicate. I have never been rude in any exchange. In terms of RS vs Wash Post vs Bookslut -well, RS states Nathalie Handal is ARAB AMERICAN born in Haiti, no where it says she is Haitian American... nationality and birthplace are different things. And apart from Bookslut being a well known magazine in the literary world, it is an interview with Nathalie Handal where she clearly speaks about this subject. Also, her identity is very well documented everywhere (she is French-American, born in Haiti of parents from Bethlehem), and most importantly, that she is more than anything else international.... multicultural. Plus, all the info you have added on other parts of the page are backed up by links to magazines like Rattapallax and Bomb which are like Bookslut. Anyhow soosim, this is all in good faith. Thank you so much for your time everyone. NatHandal ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:49, 11 May 2012 (UTC). reply

I'm going to agree with Ms. Handal (who doesn't have to talk about herself in the 3rd person). Someone being born in Haiti doesn't mean they're Haitian. No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 00:45, 12 May 2012 (UTC) reply

NatHandal - are you nathalie? if not, we need to know because you are being given the benefit of the doubt here. thanks. nothing but good faith, but also, nothing but wikipedia reality is allowed in this alternate universe... Soosim ( talk) 18:29, 12 May 2012 (UTC) reply

The NatHandal account has been blocked and I registered my protest there. Soosim, I can confirm by email that NatHandal is the subject of the article. All she ever wanted was to not be labeled "Haitian-American". She got that wish as the article stands, so we're best leaving it alone at that. That was her only concern. Keegan ( talk) 05:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC) reply

Hello, I was looking at Nathalie Handal's page and realized some of the references and links did not exist, you can re-check but in the meantime I cleaned it up. User:Earthlight — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.139.1.253 ( talk) 16:20, 11 October 2012 (UTC) reply

For those of you who do not know, Nathalie was born and lived in Haiti for 17 years, living through the end of Duvalier's dictatorship. A Palestinian, Syrian, Lebanese, Arab Haitian etc. are not uncommon due to the diaspora that actually gave them a lot of opportunity to rise up the ranks faster in a poor country. Nathalie, is an American, born and raised in Haiti to Palestinian descended parents; not difficult to understand. There are reasons why these "Natalie" accounts are being blocked; and if it really is Natalie I wish you'd stop being so insecure. You can't be French, Latin American, American, Palestinian etc. all on one passport. Definitive references state, Haitian born, Palestinian parents, American naturalization. To obtain French citizenship, Nathalie would have to denounce the American since that is the only one she obtained with residence and sponsorship. Therefore, she could probably have Haitian-Palestinian-American dual citizenship or Haitian-Palestinian-French; all else fails under dual citizenship laws per country. Also, "websites" can tell one story, newspaper interviews in print are less inclined to have wrong information, hence the source I have cited is a pdf copy stating "Palestinian/Haitian/American" (See [1]). The real Nathalie spoke to this reporter. Let's stop the nonsense please. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 10:25, 18 March 2014 (UTC) reply

So being born in the United States doesn't make one American? Yes it does. (eg. Italian-American, Irish-American, Brazilian-American etc.) The same applies to people who are Haitian born. (eg. Palestinian-Haitian, Syrian-Haitian, Italian-Haitian etc.) My mind is blown towards the ignorance I am reading. People with double standards do not make good editors. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 10:38, 18 March 2014 (UTC) reply

Furthermore, if anyone has read about Nathalie they would know she is against ethnic labeling. Why don't you think on her very own website, she doesn't claim what she is in her biography other than living in many different parts of the world? This NatHandal is sooo concerned with her Wikipedia article that she can't change it on her own official website first? Right, not the real Nathalie. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 10:52, 18 March 2014 (UTC) reply

Keegan that second reference you provided was not from the Washington Post but instead the wisemuslimwomen.org. Here is the correct link [2] and states Arab-American - not French. The USA is to England as Haiti is to France, two new world countries to get the first and second independences respectfully in the Americans. So to replace Haitian with French? To be a French American. I really do not understand the rationale of these "sources". Often times, Haiti is mentioned as part of the "French Caribbean." See Martinique and Guadeloupe, both French territories and are "French" with basically the same demographics of Haiti but of course not poor because of the help from France and a lesser population. In other words, sources can make mistakes. Also just because Nathalie often refers to herself with many different nationalities and cultures, it is important not to take her too literally. There isn't a Latina nationality or passport for that. Ironically however, Haiti is apart of Latin America so she isn't actually wrong about that, just the terminology. (See - Latin Union and its membership) Savvyjack23 ( talk) 11:23, 18 March 2014 (UTC) reply

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