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This article was / is quite charged as it is, so I made few edits to highlight that the person currently accused of this crime is still a suspect and has not been convicted yet. I think it is important to use the right terms in case this person is found innocent. Reparare ( talk) 16:13, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm concerned about how this article currently approaches the identification of the suspect, especially the part mentioning his place of residence and the repeated mentions of his immigration status. The suspect has not been convicted (the trial hasn't even been scheduled), and the language used to describe him is quite charged. He is not a public figure. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 20:46, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
We're already seeing "illegal" vs "undocumented" changes being made. Which is the better version? Let's just go ahead and decide. Joyous! Noise! 17:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
the authorities revealed the next day that they had charged an undocumented immigrant from Venezuela, so unless we have a better source we have to go with that. More importantly, though, we cannot say "entered the country illegally" unless we have a source unambiguously stating that in the article voice; and if we do, we need to be citing that source specifically to match its context and use. -- Aquillion ( talk) 20:03, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
I think it's inappropriate to lead with "Laken Riley, a White 22-year old nursing student". Her killing is described as a "crime of opportunity". Her race has nothing to do with her murder. If I'm wrong, let's talk about why it's relevant here and reach consensus. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 18:39, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
The current version of this article says that Laken Riley was killed by blunt force trauma, but didn't law enforcement announce that there was also evidence that she had been sexually assaulted? If so, why not mention that fact in the article, in an effort to be more properly encyclopedic? 98.123.38.211 ( talk) 01:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Why is there so much obsession about his status? (Which, of course, seems to help one party's propaganda... when, in reality, as it seems many forgot, all kinds of people commit crimes, regardless of status...) As it is it seems to imply that natives' murders would be acceptable... I mean, there's usually barely a mention of their nationality, as if that isn't relevant at all in their case... and, then, with the 'see also' listing others, as if they have anything at all in common beyond bureaucratic paperwork? Even age would be more statistically relevant (as e.g. more shooters happen to be younger), but it's not like there's any articles that have 'see also' filled with other shooters of the same age... it doesn't seem at all encyclopedic to me... 2A02:29E2:19:2A:E9D:92FF:FEC8:1092 ( talk) 12:11, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
I updated the infobox to remove the suspect's name from the "Accused" field. This is because the field in Template:Infobox civilian attack explicitly instructs not to use names in this field, per Wikipedia:BLPCRIME. I also added a hidden comment explaining this to the field in question. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 15:59, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
I restored the suspect name in the infobox and article body similar to the Shooting of Ralph Yarl which names the suspect. A discussion at WT:BLP came to no consensus on the issue so it seems for the time being it's 100% ok to list Ibarra in the article -- 24.125.98.89 ( talk) 12:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Replaced "accused" with "assailant" per [2] -- 24.125.98.89 ( talk) 19:29, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
I see there's been much talk about defending the terminology "illegal immigrant", but no discussion regarding the distasteful exploitation of this poor girl's death. When crime subjects are biased in some way and this is discussed in reliable sources, Wiki often makes mention of this in the article (see Missing White Woman Syndrome). Insofar as Laken Riley's killing is concerned, it's notable primarily because of the suspect, not the victim, and the fact it's been politicized by a certain cohort. So far this article mentions political information in the context of the "debate" it's apparently "sparked" about illegal immigration, but nothing is said of the nature of the political biases at play. Sources covering this are available [3] [4]
Further, the last section starts with a statement about how this killing occurred amidst a "historic surge" in illegal border crossings (has it been confirmed that suspect got into the US this way?). This is technically true but potentially deceptive. The context that this information should be presented in (and again, we return to the politics of immigration) is that illegal immigrants are far less likely to commit violent crimes than US citizens. There are many, many sources covering this, but most recently NPR discussed this in response to the politicization of LR's murder. [5] MaskedMan411 ( talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
We've had some persistent back-and-forth about whether Biden's mispronunciation of Laken Riley's name should be included in the article, so I feel like we should talk about it. I think if we keep it, we should also include Sen. Barrasso's identical slip-up on Fox News, as covered here. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 15:43, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
It happened, the SOTU is closely watched and very very public, and Biden is president. There is nothing WP:UNDUE about it, it's one line stating fact. Barrasso is not POTUS and was speaking on Fox so not the same thing at all. If Trump mis-pronounces her name I wouldn't oppose including that. -- 24.125.98.89 ( talk) 19:34, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
At the very least, we don't need to link to Lincoln Riley. Neither Biden nor Barrasso were referring to the football coach. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 19:31, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Killing of Laken Riley article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about
living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article was / is quite charged as it is, so I made few edits to highlight that the person currently accused of this crime is still a suspect and has not been convicted yet. I think it is important to use the right terms in case this person is found innocent. Reparare ( talk) 16:13, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm concerned about how this article currently approaches the identification of the suspect, especially the part mentioning his place of residence and the repeated mentions of his immigration status. The suspect has not been convicted (the trial hasn't even been scheduled), and the language used to describe him is quite charged. He is not a public figure. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 20:46, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
We're already seeing "illegal" vs "undocumented" changes being made. Which is the better version? Let's just go ahead and decide. Joyous! Noise! 17:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
the authorities revealed the next day that they had charged an undocumented immigrant from Venezuela, so unless we have a better source we have to go with that. More importantly, though, we cannot say "entered the country illegally" unless we have a source unambiguously stating that in the article voice; and if we do, we need to be citing that source specifically to match its context and use. -- Aquillion ( talk) 20:03, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
I think it's inappropriate to lead with "Laken Riley, a White 22-year old nursing student". Her killing is described as a "crime of opportunity". Her race has nothing to do with her murder. If I'm wrong, let's talk about why it's relevant here and reach consensus. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 18:39, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
The current version of this article says that Laken Riley was killed by blunt force trauma, but didn't law enforcement announce that there was also evidence that she had been sexually assaulted? If so, why not mention that fact in the article, in an effort to be more properly encyclopedic? 98.123.38.211 ( talk) 01:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Why is there so much obsession about his status? (Which, of course, seems to help one party's propaganda... when, in reality, as it seems many forgot, all kinds of people commit crimes, regardless of status...) As it is it seems to imply that natives' murders would be acceptable... I mean, there's usually barely a mention of their nationality, as if that isn't relevant at all in their case... and, then, with the 'see also' listing others, as if they have anything at all in common beyond bureaucratic paperwork? Even age would be more statistically relevant (as e.g. more shooters happen to be younger), but it's not like there's any articles that have 'see also' filled with other shooters of the same age... it doesn't seem at all encyclopedic to me... 2A02:29E2:19:2A:E9D:92FF:FEC8:1092 ( talk) 12:11, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
I updated the infobox to remove the suspect's name from the "Accused" field. This is because the field in Template:Infobox civilian attack explicitly instructs not to use names in this field, per Wikipedia:BLPCRIME. I also added a hidden comment explaining this to the field in question. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 15:59, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
I restored the suspect name in the infobox and article body similar to the Shooting of Ralph Yarl which names the suspect. A discussion at WT:BLP came to no consensus on the issue so it seems for the time being it's 100% ok to list Ibarra in the article -- 24.125.98.89 ( talk) 12:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Replaced "accused" with "assailant" per [2] -- 24.125.98.89 ( talk) 19:29, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
I see there's been much talk about defending the terminology "illegal immigrant", but no discussion regarding the distasteful exploitation of this poor girl's death. When crime subjects are biased in some way and this is discussed in reliable sources, Wiki often makes mention of this in the article (see Missing White Woman Syndrome). Insofar as Laken Riley's killing is concerned, it's notable primarily because of the suspect, not the victim, and the fact it's been politicized by a certain cohort. So far this article mentions political information in the context of the "debate" it's apparently "sparked" about illegal immigration, but nothing is said of the nature of the political biases at play. Sources covering this are available [3] [4]
Further, the last section starts with a statement about how this killing occurred amidst a "historic surge" in illegal border crossings (has it been confirmed that suspect got into the US this way?). This is technically true but potentially deceptive. The context that this information should be presented in (and again, we return to the politics of immigration) is that illegal immigrants are far less likely to commit violent crimes than US citizens. There are many, many sources covering this, but most recently NPR discussed this in response to the politicization of LR's murder. [5] MaskedMan411 ( talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
We've had some persistent back-and-forth about whether Biden's mispronunciation of Laken Riley's name should be included in the article, so I feel like we should talk about it. I think if we keep it, we should also include Sen. Barrasso's identical slip-up on Fox News, as covered here. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 15:43, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
It happened, the SOTU is closely watched and very very public, and Biden is president. There is nothing WP:UNDUE about it, it's one line stating fact. Barrasso is not POTUS and was speaking on Fox so not the same thing at all. If Trump mis-pronounces her name I wouldn't oppose including that. -- 24.125.98.89 ( talk) 19:34, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
At the very least, we don't need to link to Lincoln Riley. Neither Biden nor Barrasso were referring to the football coach. Thesixthstaff ( talk) 19:31, 20 March 2024 (UTC)